Pippen on First Take about Jordan vs Lebron

[dhsilv2]

It's funny how Lebron gets propped up for his accumulative stats while Malone, the king of accumulation, gets denigrated. The same goes for John Stockton, holder of the assist and steals all time record, which will likely NEVER be beaten.

Not only that but Malone was a damn near 20-10 player at 40 years old, 1 season before Lebron entered the league.

LeBron gets propped because of advanced stats. He’s the only player who compares to Jordan in these stats (PER, WS, WS/48, BPM, VORP, RAPM [for LeBron]). In addition, he’s got the acculated stats due to his longevity. Malone has some great seasons and numbers but he’s nowhere close to James in advanced numbers.

No one cares about boxscore-derivative stats (what you call advanced stats), now that we Synergy Sports.

Play by play stats are still the go to stats for most people. Those of course are actually advanced stats. Things like PER and VORP are now simple stats.

[Long2s]

LeBron gets propped because of advanced stats. He’s the only player who compares to Jordan in these stats (PER, WS, WS/48, BPM, VORP, RAPM [for LeBron]). In addition, he’s got the acculated stats due to his longevity. Malone has some great seasons and numbers but he’s nowhere close to James in advanced numbers.

No one cares about boxscore-derivative stats (what you call advanced stats), now that we Synergy Sports.

Play by play stats are still the go to stats for most people. Those of course are actually advanced stats. Things like PER and VORP are now simple stats.

Which play by play stats?

[dhsilv2]

No one cares about boxscore-derivative stats (what you call advanced stats), now that we Synergy Sports.

Play by play stats are still the go to stats for most people. Those of course are actually advanced stats. Things like PER and VORP are now simple stats.

Which play by play stats?

RAPM, RPM, xRAPM, APM, plus minus....

[SuperflyKnick]

Because he couldn't make it to them 7 times?

You do realize he could have won more rings if he didn't retire after winning the championship in 98? If Lebron wants to be crowned GOAT he has to win more than 3 rings.

You do realize that Jordan quitting is a negative right? Never had the mental fortitude to withstand the NBA grind like LeBron can.

Yeah I guess losing his father who was a important factor in his life Doesn’t Clint as fortitude ..: just like lebron didn’t have the fortidude to do it alone and had to join wade and bosh .... get a clue

[dabonett]

This nonsense must be stopped. You join one who won by himself against mavs and then you lose against the same team after claiming you were going to win 7 chips. Outplayed by someone who apparently did not whine cause he had not enough help.
He is the Michael Ballack of the nba. The epitome of the frontrunner

[Potedon]

You do realize he could have won more rings if he didn't retire after winning the championship in 98? If Lebron wants to be crowned GOAT he has to win more than 3 rings.

You do realize that Jordan quitting is a negative right? Never had the mental fortitude to withstand the NBA grind like LeBron can.

Yeah I guess losing his father who was a important factor in his life Doesn’t Clint as fortitude ..: just like lebron didn’t have the fortidude to do it alone and had to join wade and bosh .... get a clue

MJ said he would have retired even if his dad wouldn't have been killed.

LeBron is smart enough to realize it's a team game, his Pippen was Mo Williams. LBJ was too good, too fast, and the Cavs decision makers didn't have a clue. He had to leave to make the Cavs get better.

[Pennebaker]

Pippen said YEARS ago that LeBron was better than MJ. Then he was forced to backtrack on that. So this is not new.

[Trophy Husband]

As time goes on, there are less and less things for MJ fans to point out against Lebron. Now clutch thing is gone out of picture... There is probably only one thing left which is the ring argument lol. At the same time, Lebron is gaining in many other areas that help his case. It would be pretty foolish to not call Lebron the goat when he's all said and done. 40k/10k/10k is just way too much and adding his body of work.. just too much.

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[KyletheDingbat]

As time goes on, there are less and less things for MJ fans to point out against Lebron. Now clutch thing is gone out of picture... There is probably only one thing left which is the ring argument lol. At the same time, Lebron is gaining in many other areas that help his case. It would be pretty foolish to not call Lebron the goat when he's all said and done. 40k/10k/10k is just way too much and adding his body of work.. just too much.

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We are all witnesses prisoners of the moment.

[Iplaytolose]

The argument will end the same every time. MJ fans will point to his 6 rings and unblemished Finals record, and cite things like "closing" ability. LBJ fans will point to his numbers, longevity, overall dominance on the court. Rinse and repeat.

Both are great, both very different players in terms of style, both right up there in the all time top 5-10 players no matter your personal bias.

Jordan has the numbers too

LeBron is the only 30k/8k/8k player ever, and I don't think the next player on that list is close to those numbers. Eventually he will get 2k steals and maybe 1k blocks.

[infinite11285]

The argument will end the same every time. MJ fans will point to his 6 rings and unblemished Finals record, and cite things like "closing" ability. LBJ fans will point to his numbers, longevity, overall dominance on the court. Rinse and repeat.

Both are great, both very different players in terms of style, both right up there in the all time top 5-10 players no matter your personal bias.

Jordan has the numbers too

LeBron is the only 30k/8k/8k player ever, and I don't think the next player on that list is close to those numbers. Eventually he will get 2k steals and maybe 1k blocks.

40k/10k/10k/2k/1k would be a hell of a way to go out.

[TrillyandTruly]

lebron's legacy will never surpass jordans. just look at his shoes. does anyone even wear Lebron's?

[jimross]

One underwhelming thing about Jordan's era vs. Lebron's was the defenders Jordan got on him. The Suns put DAN MAJERLE on him. IN THE FINALS.

Watch on YouTube

Meanwhile, Lebron gets to face Kawhi or Draymond Green in the finals every year.

edit: OMG, Dan Majerle made all-defense in 91 and 93. I'm stunned. Him defending Jordan looks so laughable.

Dan Majerle > DeShawn Stevenson.

Also LeBrons defense has been absolute trash these last couple years. Why doesnt anyone ever bring that up?

Im not trying to sound like a LeBron hater, he's been my #2 player of all time for a few years now but he needs another ring to be in the discussion for GOAT imo.

[drekwins]

I'm not surprised at all that Pippen loves Lebron. Their games were so similar, so I'm sure he takes pride in watching Lebron dominate all the categories. I'm surprised though how he said Lebron is statistically better but then chooses Jordan over Lebron in the GOAT debate to keep his relationship with Jordan and keep his reputation up with Chicago fans.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Statistically, the game is completely different. The rules are not even close to the same so you can't compare numbers or percentages without adding context to them. For instance, Jordans 49.7 careet FG% is far superior to LeBron's 50.4% when accounting for hand checking/contact. Also, Jordan's 2.3 steals vs. LeBron's 1.6 is far superior. Jordan was one of the all-time greatest defenders. Really, the difference are that, on offense, Jordan was much better at shooting, scoring, isolation play and had an amazing post game. LeBron is the much better passer but not as good as Jordan in any other area. Defensively, Jordan was elite all of the time. LeBron is great but there's a reason why Jordan won 6 rings and probably would have made it 10 if he wanted to (if he didn't retire the first or second time).

[lakerz12]

As time goes on, there are less and less things for MJ fans to point out against Lebron. Now clutch thing is gone out of picture... There is probably only one thing left which is the ring argument lol. At the same time, Lebron is gaining in many other areas that help his case. It would be pretty foolish to not call Lebron the goat when he's all said and done. 40k/10k/10k is just way too much and adding his body of work.. just too much.

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Which happens to be a very important one. Lebron needs to win at least 2 more rings. 3/8 vs. 6/6 is just such a large disparity.

[Trophy Husband]

As time goes on, there are less and less things for MJ fans to point out against Lebron. Now clutch thing is gone out of picture... There is probably only one thing left which is the ring argument lol. At the same time, Lebron is gaining in many other areas that help his case. It would be pretty foolish to not call Lebron the goat when he's all said and done. 40k/10k/10k is just way too much and adding his body of work.. just too much.

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Which happens to be a very important one. Lebron needs to win at least 2 more rings. 3/8 vs. 6/6 is just such a large disparity.

But he would trump MJ in many other areas which would overcome Michael's legacy.

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[lakerz12]

As time goes on, there are less and less things for MJ fans to point out against Lebron. Now clutch thing is gone out of picture... There is probably only one thing left which is the ring argument lol. At the same time, Lebron is gaining in many other areas that help his case. It would be pretty foolish to not call Lebron the goat when he's all said and done. 40k/10k/10k is just way too much and adding his body of work.. just too much.

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Which happens to be a very important one. Lebron needs to win at least 2 more rings. 3/8 vs. 6/6 is just such a large disparity.

But he would trump MJ in many other areas which would overcome Michael's legacy.

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Depends which areas you give the most weight.

Accumulating stats is not enough to supplant Jordan.

We don't consider KAJ and K. Malone to be superior scorers, but they both have significantly higher point totals than MJ.

[OdomFan]

As time goes on, there are less and less things for MJ fans to point out against Lebron. Now clutch thing is gone out of picture... There is probably only one thing left which is the ring argument lol. At the same time, Lebron is gaining in many other areas that help his case. It would be pretty foolish to not call Lebron the goat when he's all said and done. 40k/10k/10k is just way too much and adding his body of work.. just too much.

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Sorry but we don't all foolishly ignore the fact that he failed to lead his team in the Finals with more than enough help time and time again.

But yeah, sure he's putting up "amazing" numbers in a lesser talented Eastern Conference than Jordans era had and his fan base are just loving every minute of it. Good for you guys but it'll never be enough to get the rest of the world to take him over MJ.

[Patches Perry]

As time goes on, there are less and less things for MJ fans to point out against Lebron. Now clutch thing is gone out of picture... There is probably only one thing left which is the ring argument lol. At the same time, Lebron is gaining in many other areas that help his case. It would be pretty foolish to not call Lebron the goat when he's all said and done. 40k/10k/10k is just way too much and adding his body of work.. just too much.

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We are all witnesses prisoners of the moment.

Ironically, nostalgia is the #1 element to Jordan's legacy.

[Hello Brooklyn]

The debate will never end, but Jordan will always be considered the GOAT.

Nobody will ever do what he did for basketball.

The only people who rate LeBron above Jordan are people who never saw Jordan play.

I didn't fully understand either until I took the time to sit down and watch most of Jordan's playoff games.

Even if you forgot the Championship argument and just watched both of them play in their respective primes. There is no case for LeBron James.

And to me its unlikely that he ever passes Kareem either.