Political Roundtable Part XVI

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[TGW]

Steve Mnuchin is a scumbag criminal who should be in a white collar prison. Not surprised he's working as a main figure in the swampy Trump administration.

However, we can't let that sellout Kamala Harris off the hook. She failed to prosecute him when she had a chance to nail him to the wall. He even kicked back a donation to her campaign.

Both sides of the aisle absolutely stink.

[Zonkerbl]

And somehow it's liberals that are divisive. these to morons claim that socialism will turn the US into a third world country while the fact is the US already lags behind the developed world in a lot of factors and some parts are already like a third world country. This is just blatant misinformation and programming.

I know that this is just a reaction to a post but... we aren't a third-world country. And we are most certainly a democracy.

Is it really socialism you want? Look at Cuba, Venezuela, et. al., I think many believed the propaganda of socialism and didn't like what they got. I think that many of those that voted for Trump probably feel the same way.

Or is it a fair democracy that you want - that one takes patience and effort. Matching misinformation with misinformation probably won't get you there. Maybe put your effort into promoting local (first), state and federal candidates that you truly believe in.

Depending on the metrics parts of America can definitely be compared to third world countries. Here are just a few examples:

https://www.attn.com/stories/5631/us-map-compares-states-countries-education-level

[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/alabama-black-belt-un-poverty-expert-extreme-developed-country-sewage-crisis-roy-moore-philip-alston-a8105886.html
[/url]

Look at the ongoing water crisis in Flint. I've heard stories of teachers that have worked in schools without running water. These conditions arent acceptable in the richest country in the world.

And you're a smart guy I'm sure that you can tell me the difference between socialism in Cuba/Venezuela and Finland/Denmark and then the difference between America and Cuba/Venezuela. For every example you give me of where socialism has failed I can provide 2 examples of success and more examples of capitalist countries that have implemented socialist policies.

If you can't openly discuss problems and identify solutions without making false equivalences or whataboutism then you'll just continue to slide further into inequality.

We have the income inequality of a third world country. That's a fact.

[dckingsfan]

I know that this is just a reaction to a post but... we aren't a third-world country. And we are most certainly a democracy.

Is it really socialism you want? Look at Cuba, Venezuela, et. al., I think many believed the propaganda of socialism and didn't like what they got. I think that many of those that voted for Trump probably feel the same way.

Or is it a fair democracy that you want - that one takes patience and effort. Matching misinformation with misinformation probably won't get you there. Maybe put your effort into promoting local (first), state and federal candidates that you truly believe in.

Depending on the metrics parts of America can definitely be compared to third world countries. Here are just a few examples:

https://www.attn.com/stories/5631/us-map-compares-states-countries-education-level

[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/alabama-black-belt-un-poverty-expert-extreme-developed-country-sewage-crisis-roy-moore-philip-alston-a8105886.html
[/url]

Look at the ongoing water crisis in Flint. I've heard stories of teachers that have worked in schools without running water. These conditions arent acceptable in the richest country in the world.

And you're a smart guy I'm sure that you can tell me the difference between socialism in Cuba/Venezuela and Finland/Denmark and then the difference between America and Cuba/Venezuela. For every example you give me of where socialism has failed I can provide 2 examples of success and more examples of capitalist countries that have implemented socialist policies.

If you can't openly discuss problems and identify solutions without making false equivalences or whataboutism then you'll just continue to slide further into inequality.

We have the income inequality of a third world country. That's a fact.

Okay, game, set and match on that one.

[gtn130]

Steve Mnuchin is a scumbag criminal who should be in a white collar prison. Not surprised he's working as a main figure in the swampy Trump administration.

However, we can't let that sellout Kamala Harris off the hook. She failed to prosecute him when she had a chance to nail him to the wall. He even kicked back a donation to her campaign.

Both sides of the aisle absolutely stink.

Both sides have their issues with donors, and I won't defend the democrats in that regard, but generally speaking one side is far worse than the other, and the 'both sides' rhetoric is almost always totally wrong and misguided.

[dckingsfan]

Steve Mnuchin is a scumbag criminal who should be in a white collar prison. Not surprised he's working as a main figure in the swampy Trump administration.

However, we can't let that sellout Kamala Harris off the hook. She failed to prosecute him when she had a chance to nail him to the wall. He even kicked back a donation to her campaign.
Both sides of the aisle absolutely stink.

Both sides have their issues with donors, and I won't defend the democrats in that regard, but generally speaking one side is far worse than the other, and the 'both sides' rhetoric is almost always totally wrong and misguided.

Well - Trump is much, much, much ..... much worse. And now that the Rs have gone along with him - they are guilty by association. They will get absolutely blasted in '18 & '20.

I just don't see the Ds as doing anything that will actually right he ship either. Anger will build and then it will tip back.

If one party could just pull it's collective head out...

[gtn130]

Steve Mnuchin is a scumbag criminal who should be in a white collar prison. Not surprised he's working as a main figure in the swampy Trump administration.

However, we can't let that sellout Kamala Harris off the hook. She failed to prosecute him when she had a chance to nail him to the wall. He even kicked back a donation to her campaign.
Both sides of the aisle absolutely stink.

Both sides have their issues with donors, and I won't defend the democrats in that regard, but generally speaking one side is far worse than the other, and the 'both sides' rhetoric is almost always totally wrong and misguided.

Well - Trump is much, much, much ..... much worse. And now that the Rs have gone along with him - they are guilty by association. They will get absolutely blasted in '18 & '20.

I just don't see the Ds as doing anything that will actually right he ship either. Anger will build and then it will tip back.

If one party could just pull it's collective head out...

You don't think this tax bill reflects poorly on the Republicans and their entire ethos? How about their efforts to repeal ACA? Their willing acceptance of the Tea Party, Fox News and all of the fear-mongering, racism and divisive identity politics?

The fact is that the Republicans, Fox News et al have been priming the pump for Trump for the last ~15 years. Thinking Trump is some unfortunate anomaly who has taken the party hostage requires ignoring everything the GOP has been doing for over a decade now.

[gtn130]

This is, again, where the 'both sides' rhetoric goes completely off the rails.

[TGW]

Steve Mnuchin is a scumbag criminal who should be in a white collar prison. Not surprised he's working as a main figure in the swampy Trump administration.

However, we can't let that sellout Kamala Harris off the hook. She failed to prosecute him when she had a chance to nail him to the wall. He even kicked back a donation to her campaign.

Both sides of the aisle absolutely stink.

Both sides have their issues with donors, and I won't defend the democrats in that regard, but generally speaking one side is far worse than the other, and the 'both sides' rhetoric is almost always totally wrong and misguided.

Both parties are bought and paid for by lobbyists and wall street. The Democrats are only a little bit less repulsive, but it does the classic working class, union supporting Dem-voters a disservice when we turn a blind eye to the corruption within the Democratic party.

[dckingsfan]

Both sides have their issues with donors, and I won't defend the democrats in that regard, but generally speaking one side is far worse than the other, and the 'both sides' rhetoric is almost always totally wrong and misguided.

Well - Trump is much, much, much ..... much worse. And now that the Rs have gone along with him - they are guilty by association. They will get absolutely blasted in '18 & '20.

I just don't see the Ds as doing anything that will actually right he ship either. Anger will build and then it will tip back.

If one party could just pull it's collective head out...

You don't think this tax bill reflects poorly on the Republicans and their entire ethos? How about their efforts to repeal ACA? Their willing acceptance of the Tea Party, Fox News and all of the fear-mongering, racism and divisive identity politics?

The fact is that the Republicans, Fox News et al have been priming the pump for Trump for the last ~15 years. Thinking Trump is some unfortunate anomaly who has taken the party hostage requires ignoring everything the GOP has been doing for over a decade now.

I think that's what I said (implied)? The Rs are guilty by association - no? Tax bill, no movement forward on healthcare, support of Trump (sexist, racist).

[Wizardspride]

Steve Mnuchin is a scumbag criminal who should be in a white collar prison. Not surprised he's working as a main figure in the swampy Trump administration.

However, we can't let that sellout Kamala Harris off the hook. She failed to prosecute him when she had a chance to nail him to the wall. He even kicked back a donation to her campaign.

Both sides of the aisle absolutely stink.

Both sides have their issues with donors, and I won't defend the democrats in that regard, but generally speaking one side is far worse than the other, and the 'both sides' rhetoric is almost always totally wrong and misguided.

Both parties are bought and paid for by lobbyists and wall street. The Democrats are only a little bit less repulsive, but it does the classic working class, union supporting Dem-voters a disservice when we turn a blind eye to the corruption within the Democratic party.

SOME democrats are bought and paid for, yes...but in general I don't feel both parties are the same in that regard.

Let me guess: Sanders supporter?

[dckingsfan]

This would end up hurting the Ds in the long-run.

Read on Twitter

[gtn130]

Steve Mnuchin is a scumbag criminal who should be in a white collar prison. Not surprised he's working as a main figure in the swampy Trump administration.

However, we can't let that sellout Kamala Harris off the hook. She failed to prosecute him when she had a chance to nail him to the wall. He even kicked back a donation to her campaign.

Both sides of the aisle absolutely stink.

Both sides have their issues with donors, and I won't defend the democrats in that regard, but generally speaking one side is far worse than the other, and the 'both sides' rhetoric is almost always totally wrong and misguided.

Both parties are bought and paid for by lobbyists and wall street. The Democrats are only a little bit less repulsive, but it does the classic working class, union supporting Dem-voters a disservice when we turn a blind eye to the corruption within the Democratic party.

Even if we accept this to be true, the Democratic party platform/messaging/ideology is still something that, on its face, is morally acceptable, and that's the massive **** difference between the two parties.

[gtn130]

Well - Trump is much, much, much ..... much worse. And now that the Rs have gone along with him - they are guilty by association. They will get absolutely blasted in '18 & '20.

I just don't see the Ds as doing anything that will actually right he ship either. Anger will build and then it will tip back.

If one party could just pull it's collective head out...

You don't think this tax bill reflects poorly on the Republicans and their entire ethos? How about their efforts to repeal ACA? Their willing acceptance of the Tea Party, Fox News and all of the fear-mongering, racism and divisive identity politics?

The fact is that the Republicans, Fox News et al have been priming the pump for Trump for the last ~15 years. Thinking Trump is some unfortunate anomaly who has taken the party hostage requires ignoring everything the GOP has been doing for over a decade now.

I think that's what I said (implied)? The Rs are guilty by association - no? Tax bill, no movement forward on healthcare, support of Trump (sexist, racist).

I don't agree that the Republicans have gone along with Trump - they made Trump.

[Zonkerbl]

Steve Mnuchin is a scumbag criminal who should be in a white collar prison. Not surprised he's working as a main figure in the swampy Trump administration.

However, we can't let that sellout Kamala Harris off the hook. She failed to prosecute him when she had a chance to nail him to the wall. He even kicked back a donation to her campaign.

Both sides of the aisle absolutely stink.

Both sides have their issues with donors, and I won't defend the democrats in that regard, but generally speaking one side is far worse than the other, and the 'both sides' rhetoric is almost always totally wrong and misguided.

Both parties are bought and paid for by lobbyists and wall street. The Democrats are only a little bit less repulsive, but it does the classic working class, union supporting Dem-voters a disservice when we turn a blind eye to the corruption within the Democratic party.

You say bought and paid for, I say professional representative of constituents. There's nothing wrong with exercising your right to free speech. If you're going to condemn politicians for representing the people who care enough to fund their elections you're shutting yourself out of the political dialogue entirely. The internet has made it possible for a large number of small donors to drown out the voices of a small number of wealthy donors - as long as you stay engaged in the process.

[TGW]

Both sides have their issues with donors, and I won't defend the democrats in that regard, but generally speaking one side is far worse than the other, and the 'both sides' rhetoric is almost always totally wrong and misguided.

Both parties are bought and paid for by lobbyists and wall street. The Democrats are only a little bit less repulsive, but it does the classic working class, union supporting Dem-voters a disservice when we turn a blind eye to the corruption within the Democratic party.

You say bought and paid for, I say professional representative of constituents. There's nothing wrong with exercising your right to free speech. If you're going to condemn politicians for representing the people who care enough to fund their elections you're shutting yourself out of the political dialogue entirely. The internet has made it possible for a large number of small donors to drown out the voices of a small number of wealthy donors - as long as you stay engaged in the process.

LOL so you think it's okay for Joe Manchin to vote against coal mining regulation because the coal mining industry "has the right to exercise their free speech" by giving him hundreds of thousands of dollars towards his campaign? It's okay for Claire McCaskill to vote against single-payer, even though her constituency overwhelmingly wanted it, because the healthcare companies were "exercising free speech" by giving her millions of dollars?

C'mon dude...that's not a democracy. That's corruption. And if you can show me an example of a corporate, establishment politician ignoring their large donors for small ones, I want to see that. Sounds like you're making excuses.

[dckingsfan]

You don't think this tax bill reflects poorly on the Republicans and their entire ethos? How about their efforts to repeal ACA? Their willing acceptance of the Tea Party, Fox News and all of the fear-mongering, racism and divisive identity politics?

The fact is that the Republicans, Fox News et al have been priming the pump for Trump for the last ~15 years. Thinking Trump is some unfortunate anomaly who has taken the party hostage requires ignoring everything the GOP has been doing for over a decade now.

I think that's what I said (implied)? The Rs are guilty by association - no? Tax bill, no movement forward on healthcare, support of Trump (sexist, racist).

I don't agree that the Republicans have gone along with Trump - they made Trump.

Let's agree to disagree...

[Wizardspride]

Flashback:

I had almost forgotten about this but it was President Obama speaking to the GOP retreat in Baltimore.

This was memorable because FOX was supposed to carry the entire Q&A but without warning switched away.

Many believed they did so because President Obama was aquitting himself quite well. A little too well as far as they were concerned.

I'd like to see Trump do something similiar (all presidents actually)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=444&v=R5vOMIN673A

[cammac]

Well - Trump is much, much, much ..... much worse. And now that the Rs have gone along with him - they are guilty by association. They will get absolutely blasted in '18 & '20.

I just don't see the Ds as doing anything that will actually right he ship either. Anger will build and then it will tip back.

If one party could just pull it's collective head out...

You don't think this tax bill reflects poorly on the Republicans and their entire ethos? How about their efforts to repeal ACA? Their willing acceptance of the Tea Party, Fox News and all of the fear-mongering, racism and divisive identity politics?

The fact is that the Republicans, Fox News et al have been priming the pump for Trump for the last ~15 years. Thinking Trump is some unfortunate anomaly who has taken the party hostage requires ignoring everything the GOP has been doing for over a decade now.

I think that's what I said (implied)? The Rs are guilty by association - no? Tax bill, no movement forward on healthcare, support of Trump (sexist, racist).

The reality is that almost everyone is on the same page with the exceptions of SD20 on anything and popper on some issues. In any political debate even if there is a consensus that the status quo is untenable the direction of those changes may differ. I'm a interested outsider and have my builtin perception's are different from most of you. DK is right in that a party needs to take a major leap in social reform and fairness. This unfortunately can't be done in 1/2 measures like Obama/Romney Care which was Obama's critical mistake in trying to appease Republicans and arrive at consensus. Rather than completely reform the fabric of the healthcare system while I admire Obama, he wasn't bloodthirsty enough in his 1st 2 years in office.

The Democrats need at leader who doesn't give a crap about his/her chances of being reelected but wants to make some radical changes to American society. In many ways Bernie Sanders is that type of person but the clarity of his plans are flawed by economic realities.

Howard Dean and Bernie Sanders both proved that you can raise substantial amounts to fund a race without the help of mega contributions. If there is a cause that people believe in they will contribute plus more importantly can field the ground game that can turn a election with just passion. While substantial moneys from PACs was given to Doug Jones the key was to identify the electorate that approved of him and turn them out at a high % and win against the odds.

Unfortunately I don't see that type of candidate in the Democratic orbit at this time except maybe Michel Obama how unlikely that might be.