The TJ Warren Thread!

[Saberestar]

Anyone read this yet?
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2018/1/11/16878016/asset-watch-what-picks-and-players-the-phoenix-suns-have-for-trade-season-timeline

Had not realized Warren was putting up 24 points the past 10 games. He kind of has that Marion game, where he just gets overlooked and does things quietly.

Warrens the type of guy that can put up numbers on a bad team. On a good team, less, on a very good team, half. He's just not good enough. Hopefully he can get better.....but he'll never be as good as Marion, not that you really said that.

Our record in those 10 games are 5W-5L, so he isn't putting that numbers on blowout losses or something like that.

He is scoring efficiently against NBA teams and helping us to win games.

If we would have better players on our team his stats would probably be less impressive, but that can be said about every player in the league.

[bwgood77]

Anyone read this yet?
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2018/1/11/16878016/asset-watch-what-picks-and-players-the-phoenix-suns-have-for-trade-season-timeline

Had not realized Warren was putting up 24 points the past 10 games. He kind of has that Marion game, where he just gets overlooked and does things quietly.

Warrens the type of guy that can put up numbers on a bad team. On a good team, less, on a very good team, half. He's just not good enough. Hopefully he can get better.....but he'll never be as good as Marion, not that you really said that.

Our record in those 10 games are 5W-5L, so he isn't putting that numbers on blowout losses or something like that.

He is scoring efficiently against NBA teams and helping us to win games.

If we would have better players on our team his stats would probably be less impressive, but that can be said about every player in the league.

He could put up nice numbers on a good team. Look at Ceballos' numbers across the board in this season in relation to some bigger name players. Warren could be like that on a really good team. Ceballos was a very important part of that team. Playing SF, he scored over 19 ppg and 6 rpg on over 53% shooting, the best on the team for a non C.

Also, the prior year in 92-93 he led the league in 2pt FG% at 57.7% https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/1994.html

[hollywood6964]

Warrens the type of guy that can put up numbers on a bad team. On a good team, less, on a very good team, half. He's just not good enough. Hopefully he can get better.....but he'll never be as good as Marion, not that you really said that.

Our record in those 10 games are 5W-5L, so he isn't putting that numbers on blowout losses or something like that.

He is scoring efficiently against NBA teams and helping us to win games.

If we would have better players on our team his stats would probably be less impressive, but that can be said about every player in the league.

He could put up nice numbers on a good team. Look at Ceballos' numbers across the board in this season in relation to some bigger name players. Warren could be like that on a really good team. Ceballos was a very important part of that team. Playing SF, he scored over 19 ppg and 6 rpg on over 53% shooting, the best on the team for a non C.

Also, the prior year in 92-93 he led the league in 2pt FG% at 57.7% https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/1994.html

Those are your opinions of what you think are his parallel in Ceballos. I don't think there's a parallel in that.

And the opinion of the other poster of what he does and it's meaning in a 5 n 5 recoded. Bottom line is this is a bad team, and he's putting up numbers, sometimes bad teams do scrape out wins.

And mine is what I stated. That doesn't mean he's useless in his current form, just that he's a nice 6th man type of player on a really good team. Maybe 7th.

[jcsunsfan]

Our record in those 10 games are 5W-5L, so he isn't putting that numbers on blowout losses or something like that.

He is scoring efficiently against NBA teams and helping us to win games.

If we would have better players on our team his stats would probably be less impressive, but that can be said about every player in the league.

He could put up nice numbers on a good team. Look at Ceballos' numbers across the board in this season in relation to some bigger name players. Warren could be like that on a really good team. Ceballos was a very important part of that team. Playing SF, he scored over 19 ppg and 6 rpg on over 53% shooting, the best on the team for a non C.

Also, the prior year in 92-93 he led the league in 2pt FG% at 57.7% https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/1994.html

Those are your opinions of what you think are his parallel in Ceballos. I don't think there's a parallel in that.

And the opinion of the other poster of what he does and it's meaning in a 5 n 5 recoded. Bottom line is this is a bad team, and he's putting up numbers, sometimes bad teams do scrape out wins.

And mine is what I stated. That doesn't mean he's useless in his current form, just that he's a nice 6th man type of player on a really good team. Maybe 7th.

Disagree. Warren would put up the numbers on any team he plays on given the playing time. He would be a starter on most teams in the league. The exceptions would be GS and maybe Boston. He is best used as a starter.

Nice to see Josh Jackson posting on this thread though.

[lilfishi22]

Warrens the type of guy that can put up numbers on a bad team. On a good team, less, on a very good team, half. He's just not good enough. Hopefully he can get better.....but he'll never be as good as Marion, not that you really said that.

Our record in those 10 games are 5W-5L, so he isn't putting that numbers on blowout losses or something like that.

He is scoring efficiently against NBA teams and helping us to win games.

If we would have better players on our team his stats would probably be less impressive, but that can be said about every player in the league.

He could put up nice numbers on a good team. Look at Ceballos' numbers across the board in this season in relation to some bigger name players. Warren could be like that on a really good team. Ceballos was a very important part of that team. Playing SF, he scored over 19 ppg and 6 rpg on over 53% shooting, the best on the team for a non C.

Also, the prior year in 92-93 he led the league in 2pt FG% at 57.7% https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/1994.html

Different era though. The 3 ball has become a critical part of a modern NBA offense and him just being efficient from the 2 holds him back from being a success on a very good team. In 92-93, the Suns were the league leaders in 3PA with 13.4 attempts a game. The league average was 9. 9 3PT attempts a game was the league average. THe Knicks are dead last in the league in 3PA this season and even they average 21.3 attempts a game while the league average is 28.6.

It's a completely different era. I don't think you can look at Ceballos' success and say TJ would be just as successful. Not to mention in Ceballo's lone All-star season, he was shooting .397% from the 3 on 2.5 attempts. Similar player profile but different NBA era.

[bwgood77]

Our record in those 10 games are 5W-5L, so he isn't putting that numbers on blowout losses or something like that.

He is scoring efficiently against NBA teams and helping us to win games.

If we would have better players on our team his stats would probably be less impressive, but that can be said about every player in the league.

He could put up nice numbers on a good team. Look at Ceballos' numbers across the board in this season in relation to some bigger name players. Warren could be like that on a really good team. Ceballos was a very important part of that team. Playing SF, he scored over 19 ppg and 6 rpg on over 53% shooting, the best on the team for a non C.

Also, the prior year in 92-93 he led the league in 2pt FG% at 57.7% https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/1994.html

Different era though. The 3 ball has become a critical part of a modern NBA offense and him just being efficient from the 2 holds him back from being a success on a very good team. In 92-93, the Suns were the league leaders in 3PA with 13.4 attempts a game. The league average was 9. 9 3PT attempts a game was the league average. THe Knicks are dead last in the league in 3PA this season and even they average 21.3 attempts a game while the league average is 28.6.

It's a completely different era. I don't think you can look at Ceballos' success and say TJ would be just as successful. Not to mention in Ceballo's lone All-star season, he was shooting .397% from the 3 on 2.5 attempts. Similar player profile but different NBA era.

Obviously the game has changed and you usually need to spread the floor and I hope he can add that at some point, but all I was saying was that I still think he could put up nice numbers on a good team. If we have 3 or 4 or more better players who can hit the 3, play D, etc, I think Warren could still be a very nice scoring weapon off the bench. I don't think he suddenly becomes unplayable or something on a better team. Of course all our best players need to improve a great deal defensively as well.

[lilfishi22]

He could put up nice numbers on a good team. Look at Ceballos' numbers across the board in this season in relation to some bigger name players. Warren could be like that on a really good team. Ceballos was a very important part of that team. Playing SF, he scored over 19 ppg and 6 rpg on over 53% shooting, the best on the team for a non C.

Also, the prior year in 92-93 he led the league in 2pt FG% at 57.7% https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/1994.html

Different era though. The 3 ball has become a critical part of a modern NBA offense and him just being efficient from the 2 holds him back from being a success on a very good team. In 92-93, the Suns were the league leaders in 3PA with 13.4 attempts a game. The league average was 9. 9 3PT attempts a game was the league average. THe Knicks are dead last in the league in 3PA this season and even they average 21.3 attempts a game while the league average is 28.6.

It's a completely different era. I don't think you can look at Ceballos' success and say TJ would be just as successful. Not to mention in Ceballo's lone All-star season, he was shooting .397% from the 3 on 2.5 attempts. Similar player profile but different NBA era.

Obviously the game has changed and you usually need to spread the floor and I hope he can add that at some point, but all I was saying was that I still think he could put up nice numbers on a good team. If we have 3 or 4 or more better players who can hit the 3, play D, etc, I think Warren could still be a very nice scoring weapon off the bench. I don't think he suddenly becomes unplayable or something on a better team. Of course all our best players need to improve a great deal defensively as well.

hollywood's point is that he's putting up numbers on a bad team now because we're not very good offensively and he's doing just fine. He'll probably put on good numbers on a good team but as the team/offense gets better, his level of production and contribution will drop because he'll have a hard time fitting into an elite offense with a 8% assist rate and shooting .177 3PT%. An elite offense today demands spacing and passing. TJ doesn't really do much to contribute to either. On an elite team, I think he's a borderline starter but most likely a 6th man. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I can't lie to myself and think TJ would be a #2 option on a very good (upper echelon playoff) playoff team unless he shows considerable improvement in one of those two areas.

I wouldn't rule that out but I'm not optimistic

[bwgood77]

Different era though. The 3 ball has become a critical part of a modern NBA offense and him just being efficient from the 2 holds him back from being a success on a very good team. In 92-93, the Suns were the league leaders in 3PA with 13.4 attempts a game. The league average was 9. 9 3PT attempts a game was the league average. THe Knicks are dead last in the league in 3PA this season and even they average 21.3 attempts a game while the league average is 28.6.

It's a completely different era. I don't think you can look at Ceballos' success and say TJ would be just as successful. Not to mention in Ceballo's lone All-star season, he was shooting .397% from the 3 on 2.5 attempts. Similar player profile but different NBA era.

Obviously the game has changed and you usually need to spread the floor and I hope he can add that at some point, but all I was saying was that I still think he could put up nice numbers on a good team. If we have 3 or 4 or more better players who can hit the 3, play D, etc, I think Warren could still be a very nice scoring weapon off the bench. I don't think he suddenly becomes unplayable or something on a better team. Of course all our best players need to improve a great deal defensively as well.

hollywood's point is that he's putting up numbers on a bad team now because we're not very good offensively and he's doing just fine. He'll probably put on good numbers on a good team but as the team/offense gets better, his level of production and contribution will drop because he'll have a hard time fitting into an elite offense with a 8% assist rate and shooting .177 3PT%. An elite offense today demands spacing and passing. TJ doesn't really do much to contribute to either. On an elite team, I think he's a borderline starter but most likely a 6th man. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I can't lie to myself and think TJ would be a #2 option on a very good (upper echelon playoff) playoff team unless he shows considerable improvement in one of those two areas.

I wouldn't rule that out but I'm not optimistic

I'm certainly not saying he could be the #2 option on a very good team. I don't even think #3 option (though I think having a pecking order of options is a little silly, and of course it depends on howgood of team we are talking...I mean Booker wouldn't even be a top 3 option on the Warriors..probably work best as a 6th man himself).

I do think with Warren's current skill set that he is the perfect type of guy that fits a 6th man role, which is what Cedric Ceballos played mostly in 92-93 on the championship team. He shot 0% from 3. I know the NBA is different, but again, our offense was predicated quite a bit on spreading the floor in that time (as you mentioned, we led the league) but he was a guy that came in and just scored.

Ultimately we need more passing and ball movement as a team, but Warren is more of a finisher right now and very often gets the ball and puts up a shot immediately while in motion.

Now Triano did mention that his motion and drives has actually opened up our shooters a bit because he can collapse it. So now that he is having that kind of impact is when it would be good for him to find the open man if he draws a double. And of course against Denver a few games ago, he did have his season high of 5 assists.

[lilfishi22]

Obviously the game has changed and you usually need to spread the floor and I hope he can add that at some point, but all I was saying was that I still think he could put up nice numbers on a good team. If we have 3 or 4 or more better players who can hit the 3, play D, etc, I think Warren could still be a very nice scoring weapon off the bench. I don't think he suddenly becomes unplayable or something on a better team. Of course all our best players need to improve a great deal defensively as well.

hollywood's point is that he's putting up numbers on a bad team now because we're not very good offensively and he's doing just fine. He'll probably put on good numbers on a good team but as the team/offense gets better, his level of production and contribution will drop because he'll have a hard time fitting into an elite offense with a 8% assist rate and shooting .177 3PT%. An elite offense today demands spacing and passing. TJ doesn't really do much to contribute to either. On an elite team, I think he's a borderline starter but most likely a 6th man. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I can't lie to myself and think TJ would be a #2 option on a very good (upper echelon playoff) playoff team unless he shows considerable improvement in one of those two areas.

I wouldn't rule that out but I'm not optimistic

I'm certainly not saying he could be the #2 option on a very good team. I don't even think #3 option (though I think having a pecking order of options is a little silly, and of course it depends on howgood of team we are talking...I mean Booker wouldn't even be a top 3 option on the Warriors..probably work best as a 6th man himself).

I do think with Warren's current skill set that he is the perfect type of guy that fits a 6th man role, which is what Cedric Ceballos played mostly in 92-93 on the championship team. He shot 0% from 3. I know the NBA is different, but again, our offense was predicated quite a bit on spreading the floor in that time (as you mentioned, we led the league) but he was a guy that came in and just scored.

Ultimately we need more passing and ball movement as a team, but Warren is more of a finisher right now and very often gets the ball and puts up a shot immediately while in motion.

Now Triano did mention that his motion and drives has actually opened up our shooters a bit because he can collapse it. So now that he is having that kind of impact is when it would be good for him to find the open man if he draws a double. And of course against Denver a few games ago, he did have his season high of 5 assists.

Yeah I'm not saying he doesn't have role either and I don't think we're that far apart in where we think TJ sits on a very good team. I just didn't like using Ceballos as a comparison.

[hollywood6964]

I'd also say he's a weak defender, mediocre rebounder, poor court vision (black hole), and extremely poor outside shooter (in fact his form changes dramatically). From the eye test his bball iq is somewhat suspect as well.

He is a good midrange offensive player, as well as 5-7ft away from the hoop. No high flyer, but he can contort a high percentage of shots in, one on one.

A player who can do 1, maybe 2 things adaquately on up is not what I'd call a very good player. He's a nice player, good, but that's about it.

Someone mentioned only the warriors being a team he wouldn't start for....I'd say most upper end teams in the league he would start for. Even teams like the wolves n okc, 2ND rate teams, he wouldn't. Then theres of course the warriors, cavs, spurs n rockets, no start there. Just in the minute I have to post this, sure there's more.

Point being we have phoenix suns beaming yellow colored glasses when it comes to our players sometimes, especially someone we drafted.

[PackSuns]

I'd also say he's a weak defender, mediocre rebounder, poor court vision (black hole), and extremely poor outside shooter (in fact his form changes dramatically). From the eye test his bball iq is somewhat suspect as well.

He is a good midrange offensive player, as well as 5-7ft away from the hoop. No high flyer, but he can contort a high percentage of shots in, one on one.

A player who can do 1, maybe 2 things adaquately on up is not what I'd call a very good player. He's a nice player, good, but that's about it.

Someone mentioned only the warriors being a team he wouldn't start for....I'd say most upper end teams in the league he would start for. Even teams like the wolves n okc, 2ND rate teams, he wouldn't. Then theres of course the warriors, cavs, spurs n rockets, no start there. Just in the minute I have to post this, sure there's more.

Point being we have phoenix suns beaming yellow colored glasses when it comes to our players sometimes, especially someone we drafted.

Interesting analysis. We should trade him.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I'd also say he's a weak defender, mediocre rebounder, poor court vision (black hole), and extremely poor outside shooter (in fact his form changes dramatically). From the eye test his bball iq is somewhat suspect as well.

He is a good midrange offensive player, as well as 5-7ft away from the hoop. No high flyer, but he can contort a high percentage of shots in, one on one.

A player who can do 1, maybe 2 things adaquately on up is not what I'd call a very good player. He's a nice player, good, but that's about it.

Someone mentioned only the warriors being a team he wouldn't start for....I'd say most upper end teams in the league he would start for. Even teams like the wolves n okc, 2ND rate teams, he wouldn't. Then theres of course the warriors, cavs, spurs n rockets, no start there. Just in the minute I have to post this, sure there's more.

Point being we have phoenix suns beaming yellow colored glasses when it comes to our players sometimes, especially someone we drafted.

Interesting analysis. We should trade him.

You can't trade a fan of the team, no matter how crazy they are.

[hollywood6964]

I'd also say he's a weak defender, mediocre rebounder, poor court vision (black hole), and extremely poor outside shooter (in fact his form changes dramatically). From the eye test his bball iq is somewhat suspect as well.

He is a good midrange offensive player, as well as 5-7ft away from the hoop. No high flyer, but he can contort a high percentage of shots in, one on one.

A player who can do 1, maybe 2 things adaquately on up is not what I'd call a very good player. He's a nice player, good, but that's about it.

Someone mentioned only the warriors being a team he wouldn't start for....I'd say most upper end teams in the league he would start for. Even teams like the wolves n okc, 2ND rate teams, he wouldn't. Then theres of course the warriors, cavs, spurs n rockets, no start there. Just in the minute I have to post this, sure there's more.

Point being we have phoenix suns beaming yellow colored glasses when it comes to our players sometimes, especially someone we drafted.

Interesting analysis. We should trade him.

Obviously there's a lot of sarcasm here, but for the right deal, I'd sell him high right now.

[kennydorglas]

Career numbers from non-bigs NBA players who averaged at least: 20MPG / over .500 2P% with more than 9 attempts per game (since 2000-01)

[sasquatchBob]

Say what you want about TJ, but I love watching him play. His mid-range game is really smooth and it looks efforless while he's doing it. His cuts to the basket are so sneaky... And I've seen him hustle for the ball enough times to prove to me that he cares. I think he'll still get better!

[jcsunsfan]

I'd also say he's a weak defender, mediocre rebounder, poor court vision (black hole), and extremely poor outside shooter (in fact his form changes dramatically). From the eye test his bball iq is somewhat suspect as well.

He is a good midrange offensive player, as well as 5-7ft away from the hoop. No high flyer, but he can contort a high percentage of shots in, one on one.

A player who can do 1, maybe 2 things adaquately on up is not what I'd call a very good player. He's a nice player, good, but that's about it.

Someone mentioned only the warriors being a team he wouldn't start for....I'd say most upper end teams in the league he would start for. Even teams like the wolves n okc, 2ND rate teams, he wouldn't. Then theres of course the warriors, cavs, spurs n rockets, no start there. Just in the minute I have to post this, sure there's more.

Point being we have phoenix suns beaming yellow colored glasses when it comes to our players sometimes, especially someone we drafted.

Interesting analysis. We should trade him.

Obviously there's a lot of sarcasm here, but for the right deal, I'd sell him high right now.

That statement says nothing. For the right deal, ANYONE IN THE LEAGUE is for sale, even LeBron.

[hollywood6964]

[instagram][/instagram]

Interesting analysis. We should trade him.

Obviously there's a lot of sarcasm here, but for the right deal, I'd sell him high right now.

That statement says nothing. For the right deal, ANYONE IN THE LEAGUE is for sale, even LeBron.

Obviously if you want to get technical about it. My point is he's far from an untouchable player, for which I'd only put booker in that catagory on the current roster.

[Qwigglez]

I would trade Warren for the right deal, but it would have to be a for an all-star, or even someone like Aaron Gordon. I wouldn't trade him for nothing.

[PackSuns]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wE3lH2Eu6q2Jc_07iP1vULk0i5LWOeRS2cKw_c5HPiM/htmlview

[PackSuns]

I'd also say he's a weak defender, mediocre rebounder, poor court vision (black hole), and extremely poor outside shooter (in fact his form changes dramatically). From the eye test his bball iq is somewhat suspect as well.

He is a good midrange offensive player, as well as 5-7ft away from the hoop. No high flyer, but he can contort a high percentage of shots in, one on one.

A player who can do 1, maybe 2 things adaquately on up is not what I'd call a very good player. He's a nice player, good, but that's about it.

Someone mentioned only the warriors being a team he wouldn't start for....I'd say most upper end teams in the league he would start for. Even teams like the wolves n okc, 2ND rate teams, he wouldn't. Then theres of course the warriors, cavs, spurs n rockets, no start there. Just in the minute I have to post this, sure there's more.

Point being we have phoenix suns beaming yellow colored glasses when it comes to our players sometimes, especially someone we drafted.

TJ didn't even start on his HS team...and became a McD AA. Also didn't start off as a starter at NCSU and became ACC POY. I wouldn't worry about TJ improving his game