'17-'18 POY discussion

[ardee]

Mods, could you sticky?

I think it's well overdue to have this thread, more than halfway through, and the most open-ended season in over a decade (would have to go back to 2007 IMO).

The issue is missed games. It is really hard to judge those in the context of a partial season, these rankings below are on the assumption it normalizes by the end of the season. So far I would go:

1. James Harden
2. Stephen Curry
3. LeBron James
4. Giannis Antentokoumpo
5. Anthony Davis

[ZemGOAT]

1. James Harden

2. Lebron James


3. Stephen Curry
4. Giannis Antentokoumpo
5. Anthony Davis

[bondom34]

So far having a tough time after the top 2 or 3 but
1. Harden
2. Butler
3. Curry
4. Lebron


I can't even decide on 5 and 3 and 4 are tight. I have a gap after Butler.

Edit. After these I guess some combo of Giannis Davis Westbrook come in to get to 7. Might be forgetting more but not sure. Feels like Giannis cooled off after a red hot start and Butler and Westbrook (after an awful start) have picked up.

[dhsilv2]

For me if we ignore injuries Curry and Harden have separated themselves. Then Lebron and Butler do seem like the next two. After that I'm not sure there's a dark horse really. Gianniss hasn't done enough for me and AD still has no value outside of scoring and rebounding.

[eminence]

How are people feeling about the non-Curry Warriors so far this season? Agreed that Butler absolutely needs to be top 5 so far (I'd say 3rd behind Harden/Curry).

[MHeatfan]

Curry/Harden

Gets dicey after those two.
LeBron
Jimmy B
Davis
Kyrie
Giannis

[clyde21]

1. James Harden

2. Lebron James


3. Stephen Curry
4. Giannis Antentokoumpo
5. Anthony Davis

This is my list as well.

I'd probably follow it up with some combination of Kyrie, Westbrook, Durant, Cousins, Butler and DeRozan.

[The-Power]

I'd probably follow it up with some combination of Kyrie, Westbrook, Durant, Cousins, Butler and DeRozan.

Butler, to me, is clearly in the top 5 thus far.

I don't really see the argument for Cousins to be in this group of players (certainly not if you rank Davis top 5) and DeRozan only if you want to have the Raptors represented – his defense continues to be horrible and he's not exactly Harden-level offensively to make up for it.

But I recognize that it gets hard after a certain number of players this year and reasonable cases can be made for both of them against players in the lower half of the top 10. Some other players worth mentioning with them include Oladipo, Aldridge, Green, Thompson, Jokic, Embiid, Towns, Horford and Beal. Most of them aren't serious top 5 candidates but as I hinted at above, the field after that is wide open this year.

[cpower]

1. James Harden
2. Stephen Curry
3. LeBron James
4. Giannis Antentokoumpo
5. Jimmy Butler
sounds pretty accurate for me.

[mikejames23]

1. Harden
2. Curry
3. Durant
4. LeBron
5. Butler?

I suspect this will be the first time all the way since about 06 or so that I can knock LeBron out of my Top 5. Right now it's just a suspicion. We'll have to see.

[dhsilv2]

1. James Harden

2. Lebron James


3. Stephen Curry
4. Giannis Antentokoumpo
5. Anthony Davis

This is my list as well.

I'd probably follow it up with some combination of Kyrie, Westbrook, Durant, Cousins, Butler and DeRozan.

One of these guys shouldn't be anywhere near this list.

[E-Balla]

Just did this like a week ago and was surprised at all the injuries but including them I got:

1. Jimmy
2. Giannis
3. Westbrook
4. Harden
5. Oladipo

HM. Anthony Davis

Changed quite a bit since the last time I made this list. Mainly Westbrook has been a beast recently. Like really good.

[Clyde Frazier]

A little off topic, but seeing as how kawhi will be nowhere near the top 5 due to injury, the spurs are working their wizardry yet again. They’re on pace for 53 wins with kawhi only playing in 9 of the first 46 at 23.3 MPG. Their core is essentially LMA, 37 year old gasol and kyle anderson.

I mean… are we basically talking about pop as the greatest coach of all time due to this sustained level of success with at times less than optimal talent? I know people have had that stance before, but really — it’s incredible.

[E-Balla]

A little off topic, but seeing as how kawhi will be nowhere near the top 5 due to injury, the spurs are working their wizardry yet again. They’re on pace for 53 wins with kawhi only playing in 9 of the first 46 at 23.3 MPG. Their core is essentially LMA, 37 year old gasol and kyle anderson.

I mean… are we basically talking about pop as the greatest coach of all time due to this sustained level of success with at times less than optimal talent? I know people have had that stance before, but really — it’s incredible.

LaMarcus led the 2011 Blazers with 2nd year Wes Matthews, 2nd year Batum, hurt Brandon Roy, old man Andre Miller, and old man Camby to 48 wins. Remember this is a 61 win team with Kawhi. Now they're on pace for 53. I think the talent on that team is extremely underrated.

[penbeast0]

Do you realize that Towns, while playing in more games and only slightly less points/game, is outshooting Butler from both two point range AND THREE (ON GREATER 3 POINT VOLUME)? Also of course 12 rebounds to 5 though Butler does draw more fouls and play stronger defense. Just curious since Butler is getting a lot of love (including one 1st place) while KAT has not been mentioned except once as an afterthought top 10 mention.

Also, surprised to see no Kyrie mentions despite second best record in league (edit, missed Heat Fan)?

[Outside]

A little off topic, but seeing as how kawhi will be nowhere near the top 5 due to injury, the spurs are working their wizardry yet again. They’re on pace for 53 wins with kawhi only playing in 9 of the first 46 at 23.3 MPG. Their core is essentially LMA, 37 year old gasol and kyle anderson.

I mean… are we basically talking about pop as the greatest coach of all time due to this sustained level of success with at times less than optimal talent? I know people have had that stance before, but really — it’s incredible.

LaMarcus led the 2011 Blazers with 2nd year Wes Matthews, 2nd year Batum, hurt Brandon Roy, old man Andre Miller, and old man Camby to 48 wins. Remember this is a 61 win team with Kawhi. Now they're on pace for 53. I think the talent on that team is extremely underrated.

Disciplined team defense is severely underrated. Even Kyle Anderson, who looks like he plays wearing ankle weights, is a defensive contributor. They've got a bunch of solid role players who play well together, and they always come up with a few young guys to bring a measure of athleticism. Such intelligent balance to how they construct their roster and how they play.

[Clyde Frazier]

A little off topic, but seeing as how kawhi will be nowhere near the top 5 due to injury, the spurs are working their wizardry yet again. They’re on pace for 53 wins with kawhi only playing in 9 of the first 46 at 23.3 MPG. Their core is essentially LMA, 37 year old gasol and kyle anderson.

I mean… are we basically talking about pop as the greatest coach of all time due to this sustained level of success with at times less than optimal talent? I know people have had that stance before, but really — it’s incredible.

LaMarcus led the 2011 Blazers with 2nd year Wes Matthews, 2nd year Batum, hurt Brandon Roy, old man Andre Miller, and old man Camby to 48 wins. Remember this is a 61 win team with Kawhi. Now they're on pace for 53. I think the talent on that team is extremely underrated.

I mean… that was still a fairly talented blazer team. I’m not looking to hate on LMA here or anything. He’s having a great season. And while the spurs may have some decent parts, i think the fact remains here that pop gets the most out of his roster on an all time level. Those “decent parts” aren’t supporting a 50+ win roster for many other franchises.

[E-Balla]

A little off topic, but seeing as how kawhi will be nowhere near the top 5 due to injury, the spurs are working their wizardry yet again. They’re on pace for 53 wins with kawhi only playing in 9 of the first 46 at 23.3 MPG. Their core is essentially LMA, 37 year old gasol and kyle anderson.

I mean… are we basically talking about pop as the greatest coach of all time due to this sustained level of success with at times less than optimal talent? I know people have had that stance before, but really — it’s incredible.

LaMarcus led the 2011 Blazers with 2nd year Wes Matthews, 2nd year Batum, hurt Brandon Roy, old man Andre Miller, and old man Camby to 48 wins. Remember this is a 61 win team with Kawhi. Now they're on pace for 53. I think the talent on that team is extremely underrated.

I mean… that was still a fairly talented blazer team. I’m not looking to hate on LMA here or anything. He’s having a great season. And while the spurs may have some decent parts, i think the fact remains here that pop gets the most out of his roster on an all time level. Those “decent parts” aren’t supporting a 50+ win roster for many other franchises.

I think he gets the most out of them on D. Offensively Pop hasn't looked too sharp the last two years. Way more leaning on Kawhi/Lamarcus than the system.

[Clyde Frazier]

LaMarcus led the 2011 Blazers with 2nd year Wes Matthews, 2nd year Batum, hurt Brandon Roy, old man Andre Miller, and old man Camby to 48 wins. Remember this is a 61 win team with Kawhi. Now they're on pace for 53. I think the talent on that team is extremely underrated.

I mean… that was still a fairly talented blazer team. I’m not looking to hate on LMA here or anything. He’s having a great season. And while the spurs may have some decent parts, i think the fact remains here that pop gets the most out of his roster on an all time level. Those “decent parts” aren’t supporting a 50+ win roster for many other franchises.

I think he gets the most out of them on D. Offensively Pop hasn't looked too sharp the last two years. Way more leaning on Kawhi/Lamarcus than the system.

There's also the ability to adapt your style of play to the roster you're given. Spurs went from the d'antoni style fast paced / 3PT heavy offense pre-LMA to bottom of the league in pace and 3PT rate over the last 3 seasons. I think that separates the good coaches from the great ones -- riley would be another example.

[dhsilv2]

I mean… that was still a fairly talented blazer team. I’m not looking to hate on LMA here or anything. He’s having a great season. And while the spurs may have some decent parts, i think the fact remains here that pop gets the most out of his roster on an all time level. Those “decent parts” aren’t supporting a 50+ win roster for many other franchises.

I think he gets the most out of them on D. Offensively Pop hasn't looked too sharp the last two years. Way more leaning on Kawhi/Lamarcus than the system.

There's also the ability to adapt your style of play to the roster you're given. Spurs went from the d'antoni style fast paced / 3PT heavy offense pre-LMA to bottom of the league in pace and 3PT rate over the last 3 seasons. I think that separates the good coaches from the great ones -- riley would be another example.

Always better to be in these places with great players, which both men have had. Throw in Pop now have player coaches all over the place. Who gets the luxury of a Manu and Parker on the bench?