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Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#361 » by carey » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:18 am

gaspar wrote:
He's better than Knight, but he's not better than Bledsoe. Kemba is also exactly the type of player the Suns fans hate: mediocre assist rate, pounds the air out of the ball and shoots a lot of pull-up jumpers with mediocre efficiency.

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Thank you for getting the receipts. I can't for the life of me figure out why we'd be so happy that Bledsoe isn't here anymore & then fawn over a similar player because we've had bad marginal play since he left. His numbers are o.k. but not as good as everyone thinks. He's going to get a lot of money. He wouldn't make us that much better, he'd tie up cap room, and cost us young players and future assets. This is one I do not understand.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#362 » by Qwigglez » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:28 am

I'm low-key excited to see what Knight is capable of doing with a more efficient Booker, and an improved Warren, Chriss, Bender, and Jackson. I remember last year Knight made some really good passes to Chriss. I'm hoping he's going to have a bounce back year similar to when Frye came back to us in 13-14 season. I know most fans aren't very high on Knight right now, but he could easily be a missing piece for our future if he comes back and starts posting similar numbers to when he was a starter in the league.



Going over one of his better highlight games, he shows the ability to get back on defense and make a good block on Draymond, make good passes to cutting players (PJ Tucker 56 seconds into the video). One thing he needs to work on however is to just catch and shoot when he's open, in the very next clip he had a pretty open 3, though the pass was a little low, he did make the shot after holding the ball for a couple of seconds, but still, it ruins the rhythm of the offense holding the ball like that IMO.

Anyway, I think with JT as coach, it may help Knight not take those long two's and just cut down on a lot of his bad habits. His ability to spread the floor will be huge for this upcoming season. If we trade him now, it may cost us a pick or something silly, so I'd prefer to just keep him and see what he can do.

What is everyone's thoughts on Knight? Can he come back and be an asset to the team?
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#363 » by nevetsov » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:56 am

That Dubs game makes Knight look like an All Star. His speed and handles there, combined with his ability to really push the ball, would be tremendous with the young kids. A few really nifty passes there too.

Unfortunately that's not the BK I remember. Fingers crossed he hasn't lost a step or any elevation - if that's the case, and he can tweak his game to be a complement to Booker - he might be just what this team needs.

I'd love to be optimistic, but after 20+ years of supporting this team I just don't think I have it in me anymore.
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Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#364 » by MathiasPW » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:05 pm

Qwigglez wrote:I'm low-key excited to see what Knight is capable of doing with a more efficient Booker, and an improved Warren, Chriss, Bender, and Jackson. I remember last year Knight made some really good passes to Chriss. I'm hoping he's going to have a bounce back year similar to when Frye came back to us in 13-14 season. I know most fans aren't very high on Knight right now, but he could easily be a missing piece for our future if he comes back and starts posting similar numbers to when he was a starter in the league.



Going over one of his better highlight games, he shows the ability to get back on defense and make a good block on Draymond, make good passes to cutting players (PJ Tucker 56 seconds into the video). One thing he needs to work on however is to just catch and shoot when he's open, in the very next clip he had a pretty open 3, though the pass was a little low, he did make the shot after holding the ball for a couple of seconds, but still, it ruins the rhythm of the offense holding the ball like that IMO.

Anyway, I think with JT as coach, it may help Knight not take those long two's and just cut down on a lot of his bad habits. His ability to spread the floor will be huge for this upcoming season. If we trade him now, it may cost us a pick or something silly, so I'd prefer to just keep him and see what he can do.

What is everyone's thoughts on Knight? Can he come back and be an asset to the team?


You are delusional. Made some really good passes? We made fun of him for missing pretty much every lob attempt he tried. His AST/TO ratio is horrendous.

He can get back on defense because he is quick, but his defensive awareness is as bad as it gets. He lost his man all the time when playing the 2 and let his man drive past him when he was the 1.

Short-memory problem. Knight is terrible. The one thing he can do is shoot, but I honestly prefer Daniels, who sticks to what he knows. Knight always tries too much and fails miserably. Specially on those out of control drives where he threw the ball up with no chance of converting and then just kept blaming the ref for not calling a foul.

I hope I don't have to see him play for us again.
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Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#365 » by Qwigglez » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:04 pm

MathiasPW wrote:
You are delusional. Made some really good passes? We made fun of him for missing pretty much every lob attempt he tried. His AST/TO ratio is horrendous.

He can get back on defense because he is quick, but his defensive awareness is as bad as it gets. He lost his man all the time when playing the 2 and let his man drive past him when he was the 1.

Short-memory problem. Knight is terrible. The one thing he can do is shoot, but I honestly prefer Daniels, who sticks to what he knows. Knight always tries too much and fails miserably. Specially on those out of control drives where he threw the ball up with no chance of converting and then just kept blaming the ref for not calling a foul.

I hope I don't have to see him play for us again.


Not delusional just hopeful. Same way people are hopeful that Jackson, Bender, Chriss, and even Warren will continue to improve. JT appears to be the right kind of coach to help develop players to play to their abilities. I feel Knight is a quality shooter, and if he doesn't handle the ball as much can be more effective and efficient. Booker has improved his defense this year, so why can't Knight? Why can't Knight still improve, he's only 26.

Hoping for Knight to not play for this organization means we would either trade him, which would involve a pick most likely, or to just buy him out or even waive him, which still counts against our cap. Might as well utilize him and see what he can do.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#366 » by MathiasPW » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:10 pm

Qwigglez wrote:
MathiasPW wrote:
You are delusional. Made some really good passes? We made fun of him for missing pretty much every lob attempt he tried. His AST/TO ratio is horrendous.

He can get back on defense because he is quick, but his defensive awareness is as bad as it gets. He lost his man all the time when playing the 2 and let his man drive past him when he was the 1.

Short-memory problem. Knight is terrible. The one thing he can do is shoot, but I honestly prefer Daniels, who sticks to what he knows. Knight always tries too much and fails miserably. Specially on those out of control drives where he threw the ball up with no chance of converting and then just kept blaming the ref for not calling a foul.

I hope I don't have to see him play for us again.


Not delusional just hopeful. Same way people are hopeful that Jackson, Bender, Chriss, and even Warren will continue to improve. JT appears to be the right kind of coach to help develop players to play to their abilities. I feel Knight is a quality shooter, and if he doesn't handle the ball as much can be more effective and efficient. Booker has improved his defense this year, so why can't Knight? Why can't Knight still improve, he's only 26.

Hoping for Knight to not play for this organization means we would either trade him, which would involve a pick most likely, or to just buy him out or even waive him, which still counts against our cap. Might as well utilize him and see what he can do.
If you want to utilize him as a shooter, I understand. Anything else is a waste, unless he dramatically changes his play. I think this is closer to a miracle than just being hopeful.

Now, 15M a year for 2 more years for a shooter is bad, but better than wasting picks trading him. And I dont trust him to settle down as a shooter only, which is why I just hope he stays on the bench in the rotation behind Daniels or Reed or whoever.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#367 » by Qwigglez » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:21 pm

MathiasPW wrote:If you want to utilize him as a shooter, I understand. Anything else is a waste, unless he dramatically changes his play. I think this is closer to a miracle than just being hopeful.

Now, 15M a year for 2 more years for a shooter is bad, but better than wasting picks trading him. And I dont trust him to settle down as a shooter only, which is why I just hope he stays on the bench in the rotation behind Daniels or Reed or whoever.


I think it's possible for him to change his game though. Oladipo made a dramatic leap this season. I'm not saying Knight would make the same kind of leap, but I think players sometimes just understand the NBA at different stages in their career. Maybe him taking the last year... and a half off, his perspective has changed or he watched a ton of film in his downtime.

I'd say yeah I am praying for a miracle. But only because it seems more possible than us landing a top 3 pick and grabbing Young or Doncic. There aren't any PG's in the trade market that I really want (maybe Schroder to some extent, though I don't think he's available unless on draft night if the Hawks take Young or Doncic). Everyone wants internal growth and improvement, well I'm hoping to see Knight improve since he's on our roster anyway.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#368 » by MathiasPW » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:26 pm

Qwigglez wrote:
MathiasPW wrote:If you want to utilize him as a shooter, I understand. Anything else is a waste, unless he dramatically changes his play. I think this is closer to a miracle than just being hopeful.

Now, 15M a year for 2 more years for a shooter is bad, but better than wasting picks trading him. And I dont trust him to settle down as a shooter only, which is why I just hope he stays on the bench in the rotation behind Daniels or Reed or whoever.


I think it's possible for him to change his game though. Oladipo made a dramatic leap this season. I'm not saying Knight would make the same kind of leap, but I think players sometimes just understand the NBA at different stages in their career. Maybe him taking the last year... and a half off, his perspective has changed or he watched a ton of film in his downtime.

I'd say yeah I am praying for a miracle. But only because it seems more possible than us landing a top 3 pick and grabbing Young or Doncic. There aren't any PG's in the trade market that I really want (maybe Schroder to some extent, though I don't think he's available unless on draft night if the Hawks take Young or Doncic). Everyone wants internal growth and improvement, well I'm hoping to see Knight improve since he's on our roster anyway.
Our odds at a top 3 pick, if we stay in the 6-8 range, are anywhere in between 12-20%.
I honestly put a lower chance at Knight changing his game.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#369 » by Qwigglez » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:31 pm

MathiasPW wrote:Our odds at a top 3 pick, if we stay in the 6-8 range, are anywhere in between 12-20%.
I honestly put a lower chance at Knight changing his game.


Yes, and given our luck I'd say the odds are more between 1-2%.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#370 » by JMac1 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:06 pm

Much rather have Knight than Kemba when you weight in the variables. Also, as it has been mentioned, Knight playing off of Booker versus Booker playing off of Knight would be night and day, pun intended.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#371 » by Sunsdeuce » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:49 pm

gaspar wrote:
RedIndian wrote:Yet he's a far better player than Bledsoe or Knight, and I have the feeling he has some potential to get even better if surrounded by better talent.

He's better than Knight, but he's not better than Bledsoe. Kemba is also exactly the type of player the Suns fans hate: mediocre assist rate, pounds the air out of the ball and shoots a lot of pull-up jumpers with mediocre efficiency.

Image


You are on fire!!! Kemba is literally a clone of Bledsoe....shoot first, undersized, low efficiency shooter, over dribbling overrated PG.

PLUS I thought the point of collecting all the assets was to get an “All-star” player and not an “ALMOST All-Star”.
Correction he did make an all-star team. Still don’t think he is a franchise PG.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#372 » by King4Day » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:53 pm

1UPZ wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:
1UPZ wrote:Cavs are DESPERATE to put more impact players around Lebron James and co.
They dont have enough assets though...


But Suns have the type of assets that can get the players Cavs want.




Suns / Cavs

Monroe, Bucks pick, Heat pick, Suns pick (top 7 protected)
for
Nets pick and filler



The third team will obviously get Monroe's expiring....

Cavs having multiple first rounders they can then package Shumpert or Frye with those picks to get George Hill, Deandre Jordan etc.


There's a really good chance our pick is better than the Nets pick. We are currently tied in the standings.



thats why I put Suns pick top 7 protection....

Its better to have 2x potential top 7 picks this coming draft.


I still feel it'd be too risky. If we got the 8th spot, then we traded those assets just to move up one spot.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#373 » by BobbieL » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:57 pm

DarkHawk wrote:
1UPZ wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:
There's a really good chance our pick is better than the Nets pick. We are currently tied in the standings.



thats why I put Suns pick top 7 protection....

Its better to have 2x potential top 7 picks this coming draft.


I still feel it'd be too risky. If we got the 8th spot, then we traded those assets just to move up one spot.


three team deal if the Cavs want Hill
Kings get Monroe
Cavs get Hill
Suns get Shumpert, Frye, Rose and the Cavs first round - non Nets pick - so the Suns are paying Shumpers 18/19 contract for another first - that's 9m bucks or so

I have read the Cavs and Bucks might want Jordan - if one of them fails - I am sure there is a deal for Chandler to be made but still prefer the Twolves deal as I know those are expiring contracts. If you deal with the Cavs - its probably Shumper and Frye
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#374 » by gaspar » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:57 pm

Speaking of point guards...

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#375 » by Kerrsed » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:42 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
gaspar wrote:
RedIndian wrote:Yet he's a far better player than Bledsoe or Knight, and I have the feeling he has some potential to get even better if surrounded by better talent.

He's better than Knight, but he's not better than Bledsoe. Kemba is also exactly the type of player the Suns fans hate: mediocre assist rate, pounds the air out of the ball and shoots a lot of pull-up jumpers with mediocre efficiency.

Image


You are on fire!!! Kemba is literally a clone of Bledsoe....shoot first, undersized, low efficiency shooter, over dribbling overrated PG.

PLUS I thought the point of collecting all the assets was to get an “All-star” player and not an “ALMOST All-Star”.

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#376 » by Sunsdeuce » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:26 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
gaspar wrote:He's better than Knight, but he's not better than Bledsoe. Kemba is also exactly the type of player the Suns fans hate: mediocre assist rate, pounds the air out of the ball and shoots a lot of pull-up jumpers with mediocre efficiency.

Image


You are on fire!!! Kemba is literally a clone of Bledsoe....shoot first, undersized, low efficiency shooter, over dribbling overrated PG.

PLUS I thought the point of collecting all the assets was to get an “All-star” player and not an “ALMOST All-Star”.

ImageImage


Yes I know I corrected myself. Just shows you how forgettable his all-star appearance was.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#377 » by hollywood6964 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:39 pm

Kemba is a pretty good player. He's better than Bledsoe at shooting n durability. Really just about everything, maybe save when bledsoe decides to play defense. I wouldn't give up the world for him, as he's not a high level star or superstar, but he is a semi star level player, so I wouldn't be too down on the trade if we didn't give up a ton....but I'm sure the hornets think he's worth a haul.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#378 » by Kerrsed » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:29 pm

Jeez some of these trash-ass offers that i have seen. Not really talking about here, but you know its bad when i have to put a poster in his place on another teams forum. CRIKEY!

Like look at this offer from an unnamed Bulls poster:

Bulls fan coming with a respectable offer what do you think?
Khris Dunn Robin Lopez Christiano Felicio
For
Kemba walker Dwight Howard cha 1st 18 right to pick swap 19


After being told there was ZERO chance the Hornets would ever consider that (As they shouldnt), he responds with:

You would have to give me a couple names because when I look around the league all of the young prospects that have been productive are untouchable. Dunn is probably one of the few under right conditions.

Chris Dunn Robin Lopez Christiano Felicio 20 unprotected 2 2nds
For
Kemba walker Dwight Howard cha 1st 18 right to pick swap 19


After being told that the Hornets wouldnt be giving up a pick in that trade (And me informing him that the Hornets arnt even saving salary because Howard is owed $46M over the next two season while Lopez/Felicio is owed $46M over the nest two seasons, along with and extra $16M to cover the additional 2 years of Felicio), he responds once again with:

I mean honestly no bias sthe only people on your team who I believe are on good 2nd contract as of the moment or Lamb Walker Howard to a lower extent? Who on your team is actually worth their 2nd contract? Besides who I just mentioned. Your team has a lot of bad contracts. And if you think you’re not going to have to give up pic swaps or first round picks to get off of them you’re very wrong

Dunn Robin Lopez Christiano Felicio 2020 unprotected 2 2nds
For
Kemba walker Dwight Howard cha 1st 18 right to pick swap 19


PEOPLE! I hope to god none of you guys offer trades like that on other teams boards!
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#379 » by darealjuice » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:30 pm

Hesh wrote:Yup, in a nutshell this is what we've come away with so far this season.

I'm still perplexed with the roster construction in regards to TJ and Warren, Bender and Chriss, and Ulis. We've done it to ourselves again (well McD has). TJ has been great and all he needs to add to his game is a 3ball or elite defense to round off his game. Not necessarily adding both but just one of these would be enough to call him a surefire starter for any NBA team. But if he does improve in any of these categories, what will become of the starting SF situation for us since we drafted JJ with the 4th pick that we tanked for. No way we're giving up on him.

Then there's Bender and Chriss, another clash at the same position. McD was under the assumption that they could play multiple positions but it looks like both are pure power forwards.

Then there's Ulis. Trading away the best buddy of our franchise star (probably inevitable, who may not even find another NBA team) right after the Morri situation, as if he didn't learn from the previous mistake of pairing people who are close.

I know this has all been discussed before, but it's actually what worries me the most going forward.


I think that TJ's the major thing we've come away with so far, but I'd also say Booker is taking another step toward stardom, we're starting to see some development from Bender, and JJ seems to be coming along. I've been a little disappointed with Quese's season as a whole, but he also had a solid stretch of games before he got hurt.

I'm not too worried about roster construction at this point though. JJ and TJ are the only ones that worry me a little because they both don't get any respect for their perimeter jump shot, but I'd say Josh is more confident in his outside shot and more likely to get it to a passable level. They should be able to share the court more if/once that comes.

I personally think Bender should be more of a center than a power forward when it's all said and done. He lacks the strength to get it done in the post on offense and defense right now, but he's starting to rebound the ball better, his speed and ball handling (as it develops) will be a lot more effective against bigger centers than modern power forwards, his defensive versatility and ability to switch allows us to have a lot of different looks on defense, and he would make the defense pick between either taking the rim protector out of the paint or letting Bender drill open 3s. I think we'll see much more of him and Quese on the court together after the all star break too.

Ulis is probably going to be on the roster for awhile, but I don't think we look at him as more than a potential back up. Seems like the word out of the organization has been that they know they have big holes at PG and Center going forward and plan to address them, which signals to me that they don't consider him as an option for our future starting point guard.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#380 » by jcsunsfan » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:32 pm

Kemba is a nice player and a pg we might want. But trading for him right now is premature. We need to get to the draft this summer first. After that we figure out if we need a player like Kemba.

Here is the reason. You collect your top stars first. Kemba is at best a 3rd player on a contender. He is probably just a starter on a contender. Right now he is the best player on a really bad team.

So, get to the draft this summer. Find out if we are drafting a big or a pg. Then add a player like Kemba later depending on fit.

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