Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5

[Qwigglez]

So, realistically, what is the going rate for a Kawhi? What about a Giannis?

Since DBook is off the table, what are the Suns realistically willing to offer for either of those players?

I think the Suns would realistically offer everything but Booker including our 2018 1st and another of our own unprotected picks to go along with Jackson, Bender, both Miami picks, and the Bucks pick. That is pretty much our best offer and it likely gets turned down unless Jackson puts up 30 points a game on 60% for the next two weeks. But then... we wouldn't trade him at that point.

[NavLDO]

Or, we could trade for Kemba, and lure a 3rd player to come...OR...still draft a high-quality player, and trade Dudley/Chandler, and still have Cap space to sign whoever we want before signing Booker next Summer, or any number of scenarios...

Trading for Kemba isn't a bad idea, and it isn't ruin of our team if we do. You've made it sound like someone is taking away your Birthday if we trade for him. Missing out on the Top 5 Draft pick isn't the end of the world...again, it's not black and white; it's not a Top 5 Draft pick or junk. It's pretty well understood, this late in the process, even with Kemba, we'll still have a Lottery Pick, which will still hold value in this draft.

So ignoring the fact that Jordan has said he's not trading Kemba without getting an All Star in return and you still choose to bring up this buried post... -- you ever here the phrase "people in hell want ice water, too?" Let's put Warren on the block, and McD can demand an All-Star in return, this way, we can get All-Star...I never knew it was so easy to get an All-Star, we should have done it years ago! Quoting Jordan...you're funny...great player...horrible administrator

You want to expand on how we're luring a 3rd player, drafting a high quality player, and trading for another player in this situation? Because I'd be happy to tell you why that's not likely: Kemba isn't an injury-riddled malcontent like Bledsoe, we're not getting him for an expiring contract and a pick in the late 20s. It's at least going to cost our pick (that would at least be valued in the 10-15 range because, according to many of you, we're a playoff team adding Kemba Walker right away), likely one of our young prospects, and matching salaries to bring him in; and there will definitely be other bidders to help up the price.

-- I was just going off the point in your post that we'd still own our pick, so I was following YOUR scenario...but, say we were to have to give up our 1st...ok, we use Miami's. Don't trade both. Matching salaries would be easy Kemba, since his is only $12M. And here's the part where, "according to many of you" say that we'll have to eat Batum's contract...well, I have another saying for you...you can't have your cake and eat it, too. He gets one...or the other...we eat a contract, or he gets assets. Your acting like he gets both, which, in 'lala-land' maybe he gets that, but not in the real world.

I also find it funny through all this how those that don;t want Kemba, down-play him like he's just a 'meh' or 'pretty good' talent.
Yet at the same time, you think we'll be forced to trade away our entire future for him AND take on salary...so which is it?

So what is the likelihood of drafting that high quality player you speak of when we drafting with a pick in the 20s, maybe Milwuakee's pick if they implode, and a bunch of second rounders? Where are we getting that 3rd star player for the amazingly convenient cost of Chandler/Dudley, the Miami pick(s?), and the Milwuakee pick? How are we signing Cousins to pair with Booker and Kemba when we only have 10M in cap space available, by attaching assets to move contracts (i.e. mortgaging the future)?

-- Well, as was recently explained, it's a soft cap, and Sarver (since you take GM/Owner's word as gospel) stated that he'd pay to get over the cap to get talent on our team, so there's nothing preventing Sarver from bringing in a 3rd "all-star-level" talent. (I hate saying All-Star, because that's all fan dependent; go look at the more than TWICE as many vote Ball bot over Booker this year...)

I don't know why you would say I'm acting like someone is taking away my birthday by trading for him though. If it happens so be it, I'll still cheer for him, but I don't think it's our best move given where we are as a team. Sorry you don't agree with my reasoning, but I rarely agree with the multiple rambling essays you post each day and I don't go out of my way to make snide comments toward you. - You're right, I apologize.

You make it sound as if by trading for Kemba, we are trading for a middling talent; the only reason he's not an All-Star this year is the team he is on. Small Market and Bad Record = No All-Star

21.8 / 5.9 / 3.4

Those are All-Star numbers. You are trying to assert that the 6th Pick (where we are now--not top 5), plus future/later 1st Rd picks is definitely >>> Kemba plus a Late-Lotto.

I've said over and over that Kemba is a very good player. I just don't think he's an All Star in the West, and the reality is that those aren't All Star numbers in the West. Sorry, you can argue all you want, but it's just a fact. Just last year Damian Lillard, on a successful team, averaged 27/6/5 on better efficiency than Kemba has ever had and still wasn't an All Star. 21/6/3.5 doesn't cut the cheese here like it does out East.

-- As I just said above, IMO, people need to get "All-Star" out of their heads, and think more along the level of talent and ability. I don't care if he's 'popular' enough to get selected in the West...he, nor Lillard, nor booker ever will, now with Lonzo Ball in the mix.

P.S. We're actually at #5 right now--not the 6th Pick. -- Fair enough, but that changes every other day....just two weeks ago we were 9th, was it?

Basically, what you are asserting is that you know, for certain, that:

Young / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Mitchell Robinson(??)

...is better than...

Kemba / Booker / Warren / Jackson Jr. / Nurkic(??) ...

...because it's possible Kemba does attract a Center like Boogie, or maybe a S&T trade option like Capela, Jokic, Nurkic, or something ...

And I know, yes, it LOOKS like Young and Doncic are can't miss, but we've all seen that horror story play out before. All I'm saying is, don't be so quick to dismiss the option of Kemba signing with us as being the worst option for us, because that's not true, and there's not way to prove it, even after the fact, you just do not know.

No, YOU'RE asserting that I'm asserting that I know that for certain. My post says we can use a top 5 pick this offseason as better trade bait than what our pick would be valued for a mid-season upgrade, and you're telling me that I'm saying go even younger lol..? I'm open to drafting with our pick if it's the best option, but if we let Monroe expire and were able to have a package including our high pick, Dudley, and Chandler, then we can actually have space to sign another max contract FA this Summer.

Also Kemba, the guy who's going to make us so much better next year, is going to keep us low enough to draft Jaren Jackson Jr? It's convenient for you to get a guy you like at a pick that we very likely wouldn't even have while also magically acquiring Nurkic with the many remaining assets we have after acquiring Kemba in your scenario though.

But as I stated above...Kemba cannot attract that big of a package...(sorry, Jordan). So either we eat a contract (which knowing McD, will NEVER be Batum...maybe Howard?? Then we ride his talent for a couple of years?? Probably not, Jordan won't trade him.), so likely Marvin Williams and/or MKG?? Or we trade something like Warren + Monroe + a pick for Kemba + MKG. That leaves us plenty of money THIS summer to get one more talent, AND assets.

Kemba isn't Kyrie, and look at what they got for him...an injured IT, a young Center, and a 1st and a 2nd, was it? OK, so, to me, if Kemba is 'less than' Kyrie, Warren + Monroe + our 1st will do. Still leaves us JJ, Bender, Chriss, Mia '18 1st, Mia '21 1st, Mil '20 1st.

Plenty of assets, and money. If we trade JJ, Bender, or Chriss...they come off our Cap as well, and that's $3-6M per, depending.

All I'm saying is Kemba gets us going in the right direction--Winning more than losing, IMO. He also brings Vet leadership at a position where it's actually best to have. We have JJ as our future SF (I'm convinced he'll be, at worst, a 4th option on a Playoff team. - -15/6/3 with a .350 3PT%...eventually, and stellar Defense)

So, whatever makes the most sense, be it draft, or FA, or trade, we go get our Center of the future with our remaining assets, and pick between Bender and Chriss as our PF of the future...

But say it's a pick, and we trade our Mia '21 1st, Mil 1st, Chriss, 2 x '18 2nds + the Mia '18 1st to move up to top 10, and take Bamba, because he slides to 9th, or Jaren Jackson...I like those two as targets, TBH.

Kemba / Booker / JJ / Bender / Jackson

I see that as a strong, contending team in '20, and a playoff team, at a minimum, in '19. Why? Because once we get a solid, 'all-star-talent' at PG, the young'ns at 3-4-5 will develop quickly, in my estimation. Much better/faster than if we have a rookie PG.

[BobbieL]

I'm not investing any energy into this Kawhi thing because it's not happening.

Same here.

Kawhi is not going anywhere. Stephen A Smith was wrong. Are you serious? Or was it Jalen - who cares. The Spurs know how to handle this stuff

Dame is not going anywhere
I think the cost for Kemba will be too much - though if could work a three team wit the KNicks, I would be okay - granted, don't want to bring on long term salary (Williams, MKG)

So that leaves either doing nothing and letting Monroe come off the books ; maybe moving Tyson -
But there is Love

Monroe, Chriss, Heat pick in 2018; pick from Toronto in 2018, Suns 2019 2nd rounder ad 2020 1st rounder

just don't want to bring back JR

Suns are 5th worst record in the NBA with a schedule getting tougher - I think they will be top 5 by years end - unless they make a trade like Kemba, Love or ...

[jredsaz]

Depends who your best player is. If your best player is Kemba Walker, you 100% do it. If your best player is Zach Lavine you 100% do it. If your best player is not a top 20 player, you probably do it. Booker isn't a top 20 player.

Fair enough but Booker is a top 30 player and only 21. Walker and Lavine don't fit that bill. Other than maybe Ben Simmons I'm not sure who else does. So you're right, there are some teams that would trade their best player for Leonard however, neither of those teams have an asset to include as valuable as Booker.

And that's exactly why Booker will likely be the start of the conversation if there were trade talks with the Spurs. There's only a small number of teams with the assets and right players that the Spurs would want and we could be one of them. Chicago and Charlotte don't fit the bill. I'd say teams with the assets would be us, Celtics, Sixers and maybe Magic?

I feel I need to say this every time since some posters might misconstrue what I'm trying to say but for the record, I wouldn't trade Booker for Kawhi since I'm a Suns fan. But I would be silly to think that statement wouldn't be laughed off the stage if you look at it from an outsider standpoint.

Might be the start there but doesn't mean that is where it finishes. Spurs are highly unlikely to trade Leonard and if they do that means he forced their hand and they lose some leverage.

Suns lose out on a deal because Celtics and Sixers have more pieces. Highly doubt the Sixers include Simmons or Embiid. Highly doubt Celtics include Brown, Tatum, and the Lakers/Kings pick.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I'd be very surprised if McDonough does anything to squander his best chance at Doncic or Young.

(outside of Leonard actually being on the market)

[Qwigglez]

So Aaron Gordon might be going from "unattainable" status to "what are you offering up" status. He's posting 17 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, almost 3 turnovers per game on 34/20/69 shooting for the month of January. This is over the past 10 games and he's been playing on average 35 minutes a game. Do you think the Magic would entertain offers? Would you want AG on this team, who would you trade, what would it take?

[BobbieL]

I'd be very surprised if McDonough does anything to squander his best chance at Doncic or Young.

(outside of Leonard actually being on the market)

Suns are sitting 5th right now - that pick is not on the market unless its a special player

So, to you point - stay the course and lose games because with the schedule they have -35 games left. They will be doing very well to go 10-25. So that should be should easily be top 5 and as long as the ping pong balls don't go nuts that is Ayton, Doncic, Trae, Bagley or Porter

not sure I want to mess with that...

Summer time - for sure

[hollywood6964]

Or, we could trade for Kemba, and lure a 3rd player to come...OR...still draft a high-quality player, and trade Dudley/Chandler, and still have Cap space to sign whoever we want before signing Booker next Summer, or any number of scenarios...

Trading for Kemba isn't a bad idea, and it isn't ruin of our team if we do. You've made it sound like someone is taking away your Birthday if we trade for him. Missing out on the Top 5 Draft pick isn't the end of the world...again, it's not black and white; it's not a Top 5 Draft pick or junk. It's pretty well understood, this late in the process, even with Kemba, we'll still have a Lottery Pick, which will still hold value in this draft.

So ignoring the fact that Jordan has said he's not trading Kemba without getting an All Star in return and you still choose to bring up this buried post... -- you ever here the phrase "people in hell want ice water, too?" Let's put Warren on the block, and McD can demand an All-Star in return, this way, we can get All-Star...I never knew it was so easy to get an All-Star, we should have done it years ago! Quoting Jordan...you're funny...great player...horrible administrator

You want to expand on how we're luring a 3rd player, drafting a high quality player, and trading for another player in this situation? Because I'd be happy to tell you why that's not likely: Kemba isn't an injury-riddled malcontent like Bledsoe, we're not getting him for an expiring contract and a pick in the late 20s. It's at least going to cost our pick (that would at least be valued in the 10-15 range because, according to many of you, we're a playoff team adding Kemba Walker right away), likely one of our young prospects, and matching salaries to bring him in; and there will definitely be other bidders to help up the price.

-- I was just going off the point in your post that we'd still own our pick, so I was following YOUR scenario...but, say we were to have to give up our 1st...ok, we use Miami's. Don't trade both. Matching salaries would be easy Kemba, since his is only $12M. And here's the part where, "according to many of you" say that we'll have to eat Batum's contract...well, I have another saying for you...you can't have your cake and eat it, too. He gets one...or the other...we eat a contract, or he gets assets. Your acting like he gets both, which, in 'lala-land' maybe he gets that, but not in the real world.

I also find it funny through all this how those that don;t want Kemba, down-play him like he's just a 'meh' or 'pretty good' talent.
Yet at the same time, you think we'll be forced to trade away our entire future for him AND take on salary...so which is it?

So what is the likelihood of drafting that high quality player you speak of when we drafting with a pick in the 20s, maybe Milwuakee's pick if they implode, and a bunch of second rounders? Where are we getting that 3rd star player for the amazingly convenient cost of Chandler/Dudley, the Miami pick(s?), and the Milwuakee pick? How are we signing Cousins to pair with Booker and Kemba when we only have 10M in cap space available, by attaching assets to move contracts (i.e. mortgaging the future)?

-- Well, as was recently explained, it's a soft cap, and Sarver (since you take GM/Owner's word as gospel) stated that he'd pay to get over the cap to get talent on our team, so there's nothing preventing Sarver from bringing in a 3rd "all-star-level" talent. (I hate saying All-Star, because that's all fan dependent; go look at the more than TWICE as many vote Ball bot over Booker this year...)

I don't know why you would say I'm acting like someone is taking away my birthday by trading for him though. If it happens so be it, I'll still cheer for him, but I don't think it's our best move given where we are as a team. Sorry you don't agree with my reasoning, but I rarely agree with the multiple rambling essays you post each day and I don't go out of my way to make snide comments toward you. - You're right, I apologize.

You make it sound as if by trading for Kemba, we are trading for a middling talent; the only reason he's not an All-Star this year is the team he is on. Small Market and Bad Record = No All-Star

21.8 / 5.9 / 3.4

Those are All-Star numbers. You are trying to assert that the 6th Pick (where we are now--not top 5), plus future/later 1st Rd picks is definitely >>> Kemba plus a Late-Lotto.

I've said over and over that Kemba is a very good player. I just don't think he's an All Star in the West, and the reality is that those aren't All Star numbers in the West. Sorry, you can argue all you want, but it's just a fact. Just last year Damian Lillard, on a successful team, averaged 27/6/5 on better efficiency than Kemba has ever had and still wasn't an All Star. 21/6/3.5 doesn't cut the cheese here like it does out East.

-- As I just said above, IMO, people need to get "All-Star" out of their heads, and think more along the level of talent and ability. I don't care if he's 'popular' enough to get selected in the West...he, nor Lillard, nor booker ever will, now with Lonzo Ball in the mix.

P.S. We're actually at #5 right now--not the 6th Pick. -- Fair enough, but that changes every other day....just two weeks ago we were 9th, was it?

Basically, what you are asserting is that you know, for certain, that:

Young / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Mitchell Robinson(??)

...is better than...

Kemba / Booker / Warren / Jackson Jr. / Nurkic(??) ...

...because it's possible Kemba does attract a Center like Boogie, or maybe a S&T trade option like Capela, Jokic, Nurkic, or something ...

And I know, yes, it LOOKS like Young and Doncic are can't miss, but we've all seen that horror story play out before. All I'm saying is, don't be so quick to dismiss the option of Kemba signing with us as being the worst option for us, because that's not true, and there's not way to prove it, even after the fact, you just do not know.

No, YOU'RE asserting that I'm asserting that I know that for certain. My post says we can use a top 5 pick this offseason as better trade bait than what our pick would be valued for a mid-season upgrade, and you're telling me that I'm saying go even younger lol..? I'm open to drafting with our pick if it's the best option, but if we let Monroe expire and were able to have a package including our high pick, Dudley, and Chandler, then we can actually have space to sign another max contract FA this Summer.

Also Kemba, the guy who's going to make us so much better next year, is going to keep us low enough to draft Jaren Jackson Jr? It's convenient for you to get a guy you like at a pick that we very likely wouldn't even have while also magically acquiring Nurkic with the many remaining assets we have after acquiring Kemba in your scenario though.

But as I stated above...Kemba cannot attract that big of a package...(sorry, Jordan). So either we eat a contract (which knowing McD, will NEVER be Batum...maybe Howard?? Then we ride his talent for a couple of years?? Probably not, Jordan won't trade him.), so likely Marvin Williams and/or MKG?? Or we trade something like Warren + Monroe + a pick for Kemba + MKG. That leaves us plenty of money THIS summer to get one more talent, AND assets.

Kemba isn't Kyrie, and look at what they got for him...an injured IT, a young Center, and a 1st and a 2nd, was it? OK, so, to me, if Kemba is 'less than' Kyrie, Warren + Monroe + our 1st will do. Still leaves us JJ, Bender, Chriss, Mia '18 1st, Mia '21 1st, Mil '20 1st.

Plenty of assets, and money. If we trade JJ, Bender, or Chriss...they come off our Cap as well, and that's $3-6M per, depending.

All I'm saying is Kemba gets us going in the right direction--Winning more than losing, IMO. He also brings Vet leadership at a position where it's actually best to have. We have JJ as our future SF (I'm convinced he'll be, at worst, a 4th option on a Playoff team. - -15/6/3 with a .350 3PT%...eventually, and stellar Defense)

So, whatever makes the most sense, be it draft, or FA, or trade, we go get our Center of the future with our remaining assets, and pick between Bender and Chriss as our PF of the future...

But say it's a pick, and we trade our Mia '21 1st, Mil 1st, Chriss, 2 x '18 2nds + the Mia '18 1st to move up to top 10, and take Bamba, because he slides to 9th, or Jaren Jackson...I like those two as targets, TBH.

Kemba / Booker / JJ / Bender / Jackson

I see that as a strong, contending team in '20, and a playoff team, at a minimum, in '19. Why? Because once we get a solid, 'all-star-talent' at PG, the young'ns at 3-4-5 will develop quickly, in my estimation. Much better/faster than if we have a rookie PG.

We do have to do something in the next 5 months or so. We need an attractive offer for potential players that could become available, like right now with all the kawhi, love, lillard rumblings. If we were winning some games, n had a strong lineup, we could seem like a good destination. But as it stands, just a "phoenix isn't on my list" after his agent hears rumors of deal, is enough to put the kibosh on one.

This is the reason why getting a guy like walker (if we don't have to give up nor take back too much) is a good deal. Rather than wishing on a hope n a prayer through the draft, n then waiting a couple years to see if it pans out.

[jcsunsfan]

I'm not investing any energy into this Kawhi thing because it's not happening.

Yep. If I am Pop, I just say no and move on. Just like the Lakers did with Kobe.

[bwgood77]

I'd be very surprised if McDonough does anything to squander his best chance at Doncic or Young.

(outside of Leonard actually being on the market)

Suns are sitting 5th right now - that pick is not on the market unless its a special player

So, to you point - stay the course and lose games because with the schedule they have -35 games left. They will be doing very well to go 10-25. So that should be should easily be top 5 and as long as the ping pong balls don't go nuts that is Ayton, Doncic, Trae, Bagley or Porter

not sure I want to mess with that...

Summer time - for sure

It may be tough to get a top 5 pick. I think we are better than Orlando, Sacramento and Atlanta and our 2.5 or 3 games ahead of them. And then we are a game ahead of Dallas. Dallas can probably win more games, given a tough early schedule and the fact they play more vets, but last year they really tanked down the stretch. They would like have leads at halftime or end of 3rd and play super scrubs..like 3rd stringers down the stretch and intentionally blow it. I think there is a very good chance they do that again.

So if we are sitting with the 5th worst record (if we stay behind Memphis, Brooklyn, Chicago and LA) our greatest odds would be to slip one spot to six in the lottery. http://www.tankathon.com/pick_odds

Of course odds are still fairly good to stay at 5 and decent to jump top 3, but if you run the sim, the single most spot you would land in most is six.

I wonder if Orlando would think of taking Doncic over Young. The tankathon mock thinks so if they got the 1st pick. But if Doncic was gone it always has them taking Young.

[Saberestar]

So Aaron Gordon might be going from "unattainable" status to "what are you offering up" status. He's posting 17 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, almost 3 turnovers per game on 34/20/69 shooting for the month of January. This is over the past 10 games and he's been playing on average 35 minutes a game. Do you think the Magic would entertain offers? Would you want AG on this team, who would you trade, what would it take?

I would love Aaron Gordon as our starting PF. With his improved shooting he would be perfect here, but I do not think he is available.

BUT, if we need to put an offer for him I would trade Bender, Chriss and the Miami 2018 pick.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

So Aaron Gordon might be going from "unattainable" status to "what are you offering up" status. He's posting 17 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, almost 3 turnovers per game on 34/20/69 shooting for the month of January. This is over the past 10 games and he's been playing on average 35 minutes a game. Do you think the Magic would entertain offers? Would you want AG on this team, who would you trade, what would it take?

I would love Aaron Gordon as our starting PF. With his improved shooting he would be perfect here, but I do not think he is available.

BUT, if we need to put an offer for him I would trade Bender, Chriss and the Miami 2018 pick.

et tu, Saberestar?

I prefer to hang on to these guys in the hopes they take a big step. I'm especially reluctant to give up so much when we're talking about also handing out a max deal.

Stay the course.

[bwgood77]

So Aaron Gordon might be going from "unattainable" status to "what are you offering up" status. He's posting 17 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, almost 3 turnovers per game on 34/20/69 shooting for the month of January. This is over the past 10 games and he's been playing on average 35 minutes a game. Do you think the Magic would entertain offers? Would you want AG on this team, who would you trade, what would it take?

I would love Aaron Gordon as our starting PF. With his improved shooting he would be perfect here, but I do not think he is available.

BUT, if we need to put an offer for him I would trade Bender, Chriss and the Miami 2018 pick.

et tu, Saberestar?

I prefer to hang on to these guys in the hopes they take a big step. I'm especially reluctant to give up so much when we're talking about also handing out a max deal.

Stay the course.

Read on Twitter

[bwgood77]

https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/248709/The-10-Most-Tradable-NBA-Contracts-Of-2018

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1664207#p62512823

[WeekapaugGroove]

Spoiler:

Or, we could trade for Kemba, and lure a 3rd player to come...OR...still draft a high-quality player, and trade Dudley/Chandler, and still have Cap space to sign whoever we want before signing Booker next Summer, or any number of scenarios...

Trading for Kemba isn't a bad idea, and it isn't ruin of our team if we do. You've made it sound like someone is taking away your Birthday if we trade for him. Missing out on the Top 5 Draft pick isn't the end of the world...again, it's not black and white; it's not a Top 5 Draft pick or junk. It's pretty well understood, this late in the process, even with Kemba, we'll still have a Lottery Pick, which will still hold value in this draft.

So ignoring the fact that Jordan has said he's not trading Kemba without getting an All Star in return and you still choose to bring up this buried post... -- you ever here the phrase "people in hell want ice water, too?" Let's put Warren on the block, and McD can demand an All-Star in return, this way, we can get All-Star...I never knew it was so easy to get an All-Star, we should have done it years ago! Quoting Jordan...you're funny...great player...horrible administrator

You want to expand on how we're luring a 3rd player, drafting a high quality player, and trading for another player in this situation? Because I'd be happy to tell you why that's not likely: Kemba isn't an injury-riddled malcontent like Bledsoe, we're not getting him for an expiring contract and a pick in the late 20s. It's at least going to cost our pick (that would at least be valued in the 10-15 range because, according to many of you, we're a playoff team adding Kemba Walker right away), likely one of our young prospects, and matching salaries to bring him in; and there will definitely be other bidders to help up the price.

-- I was just going off the point in your post that we'd still own our pick, so I was following YOUR scenario...but, say we were to have to give up our 1st...ok, we use Miami's. Don't trade both. Matching salaries would be easy Kemba, since his is only $12M. And here's the part where, "according to many of you" say that we'll have to eat Batum's contract...well, I have another saying for you...you can't have your cake and eat it, too. He gets one...or the other...we eat a contract, or he gets assets. Your acting like he gets both, which, in 'lala-land' maybe he gets that, but not in the real world.

I also find it funny through all this how those that don;t want Kemba, down-play him like he's just a 'meh' or 'pretty good' talent.
Yet at the same time, you think we'll be forced to trade away our entire future for him AND take on salary...so which is it?

So what is the likelihood of drafting that high quality player you speak of when we drafting with a pick in the 20s, maybe Milwuakee's pick if they implode, and a bunch of second rounders? Where are we getting that 3rd star player for the amazingly convenient cost of Chandler/Dudley, the Miami pick(s?), and the Milwuakee pick? How are we signing Cousins to pair with Booker and Kemba when we only have 10M in cap space available, by attaching assets to move contracts (i.e. mortgaging the future)?

-- Well, as was recently explained, it's a soft cap, and Sarver (since you take GM/Owner's word as gospel) stated that he'd pay to get over the cap to get talent on our team, so there's nothing preventing Sarver from bringing in a 3rd "all-star-level" talent. (I hate saying All-Star, because that's all fan dependent; go look at the more than TWICE as many vote Ball bot over Booker this year...)

I don't know why you would say I'm acting like someone is taking away my birthday by trading for him though. If it happens so be it, I'll still cheer for him, but I don't think it's our best move given where we are as a team. Sorry you don't agree with my reasoning, but I rarely agree with the multiple rambling essays you post each day and I don't go out of my way to make snide comments toward you. - You're right, I apologize.

You make it sound as if by trading for Kemba, we are trading for a middling talent; the only reason he's not an All-Star this year is the team he is on. Small Market and Bad Record = No All-Star

21.8 / 5.9 / 3.4

Those are All-Star numbers. You are trying to assert that the 6th Pick (where we are now--not top 5), plus future/later 1st Rd picks is definitely >>> Kemba plus a Late-Lotto.

I've said over and over that Kemba is a very good player. I just don't think he's an All Star in the West, and the reality is that those aren't All Star numbers in the West. Sorry, you can argue all you want, but it's just a fact. Just last year Damian Lillard, on a successful team, averaged 27/6/5 on better efficiency than Kemba has ever had and still wasn't an All Star. 21/6/3.5 doesn't cut the cheese here like it does out East.

-- As I just said above, IMO, people need to get "All-Star" out of their heads, and think more along the level of talent and ability. I don't care if he's 'popular' enough to get selected in the West...he, nor Lillard, nor booker ever will, now with Lonzo Ball in the mix.

P.S. We're actually at #5 right now--not the 6th Pick. -- Fair enough, but that changes every other day....just two weeks ago we were 9th, was it?

Basically, what you are asserting is that you know, for certain, that:

Young / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Mitchell Robinson(??)

...is better than...

Kemba / Booker / Warren / Jackson Jr. / Nurkic(??) ...

...because it's possible Kemba does attract a Center like Boogie, or maybe a S&T trade option like Capela, Jokic, Nurkic, or something ...

And I know, yes, it LOOKS like Young and Doncic are can't miss, but we've all seen that horror story play out before. All I'm saying is, don't be so quick to dismiss the option of Kemba signing with us as being the worst option for us, because that's not true, and there's not way to prove it, even after the fact, you just do not know.

No, YOU'RE asserting that I'm asserting that I know that for certain. My post says we can use a top 5 pick this offseason as better trade bait than what our pick would be valued for a mid-season upgrade, and you're telling me that I'm saying go even younger lol..? I'm open to drafting with our pick if it's the best option, but if we let Monroe expire and were able to have a package including our high pick, Dudley, and Chandler, then we can actually have space to sign another max contract FA this Summer.

Also Kemba, the guy who's going to make us so much better next year, is going to keep us low enough to draft Jaren Jackson Jr? It's convenient for you to get a guy you like at a pick that we very likely wouldn't even have while also magically acquiring Nurkic with the many remaining assets we have after acquiring Kemba in your scenario though.

But as I stated above...Kemba cannot attract that big of a package...(sorry, Jordan). So either we eat a contract (which knowing McD, will NEVER be Batum...maybe Howard?? Then we ride his talent for a couple of years?? Probably not, Jordan won't trade him.), so likely Marvin Williams and/or MKG?? Or we trade something like Warren + Monroe + a pick for Kemba + MKG. That leaves us plenty of money THIS summer to get one more talent, AND assets.

Kemba isn't Kyrie, and look at what they got for him...an injured IT, a young Center, and a 1st and a 2nd, was it? OK, so, to me, if Kemba is 'less than' Kyrie, Warren + Monroe + our 1st will do. Still leaves us JJ, Bender, Chriss, Mia '18 1st, Mia '21 1st, Mil '20 1st.

Plenty of assets, and money. If we trade JJ, Bender, or Chriss...they come off our Cap as well, and that's $3-6M per, depending.

All I'm saying is Kemba gets us going in the right direction--Winning more than losing, IMO. He also brings Vet leadership at a position where it's actually best to have. We have JJ as our future SF (I'm convinced he'll be, at worst, a 4th option on a Playoff team. - -15/6/3 with a .350 3PT%...eventually, and stellar Defense)

So, whatever makes the most sense, be it draft, or FA, or trade, we go get our Center of the future with our remaining assets, and pick between Bender and Chriss as our PF of the future...

But say it's a pick, and we trade our Mia '21 1st, Mil 1st, Chriss, 2 x '18 2nds + the Mia '18 1st to move up to top 10, and take Bamba, because he slides to 9th, or Jaren Jackson...I like those two as targets, TBH.

Kemba / Booker / JJ / Bender / Jackson

I see that as a strong, contending team in '20, and a playoff team, at a minimum, in '19. Why? Because once we get a solid, 'all-star-talent' at PG, the young'ns at 3-4-5 will develop quickly, in my estimation. Much better/faster than if we have a rookie PG.

I don't think you have a very good understanding of how the cap works. Yes; it's a 'soft cap' but that just means you can go over to retain your own players on extension. You still need actual cap room to sign a FA. Heck the Suns don't even have max room this summer if they stand pat and just let Monroe expire and renounce the Len cap hold. The only scenario where they could acquire Walker and have max room is if Charlotte actually took back more long term money in that deal and they can't do that because they are already over the cap.

[Saberestar]

So Aaron Gordon might be going from "unattainable" status to "what are you offering up" status. He's posting 17 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, almost 3 turnovers per game on 34/20/69 shooting for the month of January. This is over the past 10 games and he's been playing on average 35 minutes a game. Do you think the Magic would entertain offers? Would you want AG on this team, who would you trade, what would it take?

I would love Aaron Gordon as our starting PF. With his improved shooting he would be perfect here, but I do not think he is available.

BUT, if we need to put an offer for him I would trade Bender, Chriss and the Miami 2018 pick.

et tu, Saberestar?

I prefer to hang on to these guys in the hopes they take a big step. I'm especially reluctant to give up so much when we're talking about also handing out a max deal.

Stay the course.

I think that Gordon is a sure thing, really young yet and potentially an All Star in the next few years.
With him on the roster we would be absolutely set at SG, SF and PF for the next four or five years.

Then you add a PG or a C in the next draft.

[BobbieL]

Spoiler:

So ignoring the fact that Jordan has said he's not trading Kemba without getting an All Star in return and you still choose to bring up this buried post... -- you ever here the phrase "people in hell want ice water, too?" Let's put Warren on the block, and McD can demand an All-Star in return, this way, we can get All-Star...I never knew it was so easy to get an All-Star, we should have done it years ago! Quoting Jordan...you're funny...great player...horrible administrator

You want to expand on how we're luring a 3rd player, drafting a high quality player, and trading for another player in this situation? Because I'd be happy to tell you why that's not likely: Kemba isn't an injury-riddled malcontent like Bledsoe, we're not getting him for an expiring contract and a pick in the late 20s. It's at least going to cost our pick (that would at least be valued in the 10-15 range because, according to many of you, we're a playoff team adding Kemba Walker right away), likely one of our young prospects, and matching salaries to bring him in; and there will definitely be other bidders to help up the price.

-- I was just going off the point in your post that we'd still own our pick, so I was following YOUR scenario...but, say we were to have to give up our 1st...ok, we use Miami's. Don't trade both. Matching salaries would be easy Kemba, since his is only $12M. And here's the part where, "according to many of you" say that we'll have to eat Batum's contract...well, I have another saying for you...you can't have your cake and eat it, too. He gets one...or the other...we eat a contract, or he gets assets. Your acting like he gets both, which, in 'lala-land' maybe he gets that, but not in the real world.

I also find it funny through all this how those that don;t want Kemba, down-play him like he's just a 'meh' or 'pretty good' talent.
Yet at the same time, you think we'll be forced to trade away our entire future for him AND take on salary...so which is it?

So what is the likelihood of drafting that high quality player you speak of when we drafting with a pick in the 20s, maybe Milwuakee's pick if they implode, and a bunch of second rounders? Where are we getting that 3rd star player for the amazingly convenient cost of Chandler/Dudley, the Miami pick(s?), and the Milwuakee pick? How are we signing Cousins to pair with Booker and Kemba when we only have 10M in cap space available, by attaching assets to move contracts (i.e. mortgaging the future)?

-- Well, as was recently explained, it's a soft cap, and Sarver (since you take GM/Owner's word as gospel) stated that he'd pay to get over the cap to get talent on our team, so there's nothing preventing Sarver from bringing in a 3rd "all-star-level" talent. (I hate saying All-Star, because that's all fan dependent; go look at the more than TWICE as many vote Ball bot over Booker this year...)

I don't know why you would say I'm acting like someone is taking away my birthday by trading for him though. If it happens so be it, I'll still cheer for him, but I don't think it's our best move given where we are as a team. Sorry you don't agree with my reasoning, but I rarely agree with the multiple rambling essays you post each day and I don't go out of my way to make snide comments toward you. - You're right, I apologize.



I've said over and over that Kemba is a very good player. I just don't think he's an All Star in the West, and the reality is that those aren't All Star numbers in the West. Sorry, you can argue all you want, but it's just a fact. Just last year Damian Lillard, on a successful team, averaged 27/6/5 on better efficiency than Kemba has ever had and still wasn't an All Star. 21/6/3.5 doesn't cut the cheese here like it does out East.

-- As I just said above, IMO, people need to get "All-Star" out of their heads, and think more along the level of talent and ability. I don't care if he's 'popular' enough to get selected in the West...he, nor Lillard, nor booker ever will, now with Lonzo Ball in the mix.

P.S. We're actually at #5 right now--not the 6th Pick. -- Fair enough, but that changes every other day....just two weeks ago we were 9th, was it?



No, YOU'RE asserting that I'm asserting that I know that for certain. My post says we can use a top 5 pick this offseason as better trade bait than what our pick would be valued for a mid-season upgrade, and you're telling me that I'm saying go even younger lol..? I'm open to drafting with our pick if it's the best option, but if we let Monroe expire and were able to have a package including our high pick, Dudley, and Chandler, then we can actually have space to sign another max contract FA this Summer.

Also Kemba, the guy who's going to make us so much better next year, is going to keep us low enough to draft Jaren Jackson Jr? It's convenient for you to get a guy you like at a pick that we very likely wouldn't even have while also magically acquiring Nurkic with the many remaining assets we have after acquiring Kemba in your scenario though.

But as I stated above...Kemba cannot attract that big of a package...(sorry, Jordan). So either we eat a contract (which knowing McD, will NEVER be Batum...maybe Howard?? Then we ride his talent for a couple of years?? Probably not, Jordan won't trade him.), so likely Marvin Williams and/or MKG?? Or we trade something like Warren + Monroe + a pick for Kemba + MKG. That leaves us plenty of money THIS summer to get one more talent, AND assets.

Kemba isn't Kyrie, and look at what they got for him...an injured IT, a young Center, and a 1st and a 2nd, was it? OK, so, to me, if Kemba is 'less than' Kyrie, Warren + Monroe + our 1st will do. Still leaves us JJ, Bender, Chriss, Mia '18 1st, Mia '21 1st, Mil '20 1st.

Plenty of assets, and money. If we trade JJ, Bender, or Chriss...they come off our Cap as well, and that's $3-6M per, depending.

All I'm saying is Kemba gets us going in the right direction--Winning more than losing, IMO. He also brings Vet leadership at a position where it's actually best to have. We have JJ as our future SF (I'm convinced he'll be, at worst, a 4th option on a Playoff team. - -15/6/3 with a .350 3PT%...eventually, and stellar Defense)

So, whatever makes the most sense, be it draft, or FA, or trade, we go get our Center of the future with our remaining assets, and pick between Bender and Chriss as our PF of the future...

But say it's a pick, and we trade our Mia '21 1st, Mil 1st, Chriss, 2 x '18 2nds + the Mia '18 1st to move up to top 10, and take Bamba, because he slides to 9th, or Jaren Jackson...I like those two as targets, TBH.

Kemba / Booker / JJ / Bender / Jackson

I see that as a strong, contending team in '20, and a playoff team, at a minimum, in '19. Why? Because once we get a solid, 'all-star-talent' at PG, the young'ns at 3-4-5 will develop quickly, in my estimation. Much better/faster than if we have a rookie PG.

I don't think you have a very good understanding of how the cap works. Yes; it's a 'soft cap' but that just means you can go over to retain your own players on extension. You still need actual cap room to sign a FA. Heck the Suns don't even have max room this summer if they stand pat and just let Monroe expire and renounce the Len cap hold. The only scenario where they could acquire Walker and have max room is if Charlotte actually took back more long term money in that deal and they can't do that because they are already over the cap.

Which is why when I looked for teams to move Chandler too - the Twolves went to the head of the class. I am not sure he is the right fit. But, the Twolves invested a lot this year with Butler Gibson and Teague Chandler might help them in the mix . And best of all, Twolves have two nice expirings (Aldrich, Bjelica) and Glen Taylor has been shown to spend money.

Suns move Chandler for expirings
Let Monroe walk
renounce Len

about 33m of cap space less the first round picks from Heat and current

that should help get a max deal

[Kerrsed]

And who do people think is worthy of a Max Contract in FA that we might actually stand a chance signing?

This should be interesting.....

[bwgood77]

And who do people think is worthy of a Max Contract in FA that we might actually stand a chance signing?

This should be interesting.....

No one, though I'm sure you'll get some Boogie, George, and Paul answers. We should have more money in 2019, even if Booker signs an extension, but if we could go into that summer before he signs, we should have a ton.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/phoenix_suns/

Interesting article about likely max shopping teams in 2018. http://hoop.nba.com/nba_hoop_featured/summer-2018-free-agency-forecast/

It's a little old, but probably mostly accurate.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

But as I stated above...Kemba cannot attract that big of a package...(sorry, Jordan). So either we eat a contract (which knowing McD, will NEVER be Batum...maybe Howard?? Then we ride his talent for a couple of years?? Probably not, Jordan won't trade him.), so likely Marvin Williams and/or MKG?? Or we trade something like Warren + Monroe + a pick for Kemba + MKG. That leaves us plenty of money THIS summer to get one more talent, AND assets.

Kemba isn't Kyrie, and look at what they got for him...an injured IT, a young Center, and a 1st and a 2nd, was it? OK, so, to me, if Kemba is 'less than' Kyrie, Warren + Monroe + our 1st will do. Still leaves us JJ, Bender, Chriss, Mia '18 1st, Mia '21 1st, Mil '20 1st.

Plenty of assets, and money. If we trade JJ, Bender, or Chriss...they come off our Cap as well, and that's $3-6M per, depending.

All I'm saying is Kemba gets us going in the right direction--Winning more than losing, IMO. He also brings Vet leadership at a position where it's actually best to have. We have JJ as our future SF (I'm convinced he'll be, at worst, a 4th option on a Playoff team. - -15/6/3 with a .350 3PT%...eventually, and stellar Defense)

So, whatever makes the most sense, be it draft, or FA, or trade, we go get our Center of the future with our remaining assets, and pick between Bender and Chriss as our PF of the future...

But say it's a pick, and we trade our Mia '21 1st, Mil 1st, Chriss, 2 x '18 2nds + the Mia '18 1st to move up to top 10, and take Bamba, because he slides to 9th, or Jaren Jackson...I like those two as targets, TBH.

Kemba / Booker / JJ / Bender / Jackson

I see that as a strong, contending team in '20, and a playoff team, at a minimum, in '19. Why? Because once we get a solid, 'all-star-talent' at PG, the young'ns at 3-4-5 will develop quickly, in my estimation. Much better/faster than if we have a rookie PG.

I don't think you have a very good understanding of how the cap works. Yes; it's a 'soft cap' but that just means you can go over to retain your own players on extension. You still need actual cap room to sign a FA. Heck the Suns don't even have max room this summer if they stand pat and just let Monroe expire and renounce the Len cap hold. The only scenario where they could acquire Walker and have max room is if Charlotte actually took back more long term money in that deal and they can't do that because they are already over the cap.

Which is why when I looked for teams to move Chandler too - the Twolves went to the head of the class. I am not sure he is the right fit. But, the Twolves invested a lot this year with Butler Gibson and Teague Chandler might help them in the mix . And best of all, Twolves have two nice expirings (Aldrich, Bjelica) and Glen Taylor has been shown to spend money.

Suns move Chandler for expirings
Let Monroe walk
renounce Len

about 33m of cap space less the first round picks from Heat and current

that should help get a max deal

There is little chance Chandler moves. There are way too many big or bad contracts people want to move, and Chandler doesn't provide much other than rebounding. He may be moved next year when expiring but even then, it will be like Monroe this year and it probably wouldn't be for much, if anything.

And of course Brandon Knight trades are even less likely unless we were to take back a worse longer contract.

If there was any chance we could sign two max free agents in the summer of 2019 by moving Knight's contract before it's final year, I wouldn't be surprised if at that point we gave away a pretty good asset, even a protected first to do so. But I'm not sure there are two worthy max contract guys we'd want that summer. Last I looked the best of them that were likely unobtainable superstars were shooting guards like Klay Thompson and Khris Middleton I believe.