The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[DoubleLintendre]

I'm also good with calling Simmons a rookie. Yes, he had advantages going into this year that other rookies did not. He had exposure to the travel, next-level physical training, and some practice against NBA talent. However, that's completely different than playing against NBA talent in real games 82 times a year. He's shown up from day one and bet he would've been about the same if he didn't miss last year.

I've thought about other players who've been semi-sophomore rookies. My friends argue that they're not real rookies given they receive a year of certain benefits the other rookies do not. But, in a way, I'd argue that many players have prior life advantages that others don't.

What if you grew up in a professional basketball family and knew of the lifestyle and demands of the NBA, while being mentored by former players. What if you're born into a wealthy family and have had access to elite personal training all your life. How about if you're an older top-level overseas player and have refined your fundamentals while playing against solid talent all your life.

Some rookies players come into the league with these advantages, and some come in with disadvantages as well. What matters is how you show up when it's time to play your first year. Simmons came in with a better NBA body and some foreknowledge of how the long the schedule works-- but I don't know how much of his success you can attribute to that as opposed to his natural talent and work ethic.

If a rookie who missed his first year came into the league like a deer in the headlights (not uncommon), I bet many would argue it's because he hasn't had real NBA playing experience and needs time. Going up against some NBA quality teammates in practice is completely different than playing against 29 other teams of true NBA players. I don't imagine many would suggest he should be significantly more NBA-ready than his peers because he's been with the team longer.

Would that player receive the opposite end of the "unfair advantage" argument? I really wonder.

[theo42]

The tie breaker here should be the fact that Simmons ain't even a rookie.

Please detail the NBA games he played prior to this season.

Didn't need to. He's already spent an entire year in his system, under NBA-level tutelage, getting acquainted to an 82-game schedule and travel, practice habits, etc.

These things matter. Listen to Fox's interview earlier in the season. The hardest part for him wasn't playing ball, but getting used to the schedule and travel. Simmons is a year ahead of everyone else on that, and it makes a huge difference.

Simmons didn't travel with the team last year and was immobilized for most of the year with the foot. Don't forget that he miss some of his last year in college as well.

This notion that "he isn't even a rookie" is just silly. He is a rookie who never played an NBA game prior to this year.

[dkj5061]

Im all for calling Simmons a rookie this year, doesnt really make much difference to me since the ROTY award holds pretty low value in the grand scheme of things in my opinion. So I dont agree with clyde on that part, but ya I agree with Clyde on the 2nd part. Even if he was rehabbing for the majority of the year, he was still spending probably 8 hours a day working out, rehabbing, training, learning to scout and being taught by the elite of the elite for basketball. And I believe he was doing 5 on 5 drills around all star weekend or so his rookie year but just never came back, so that means he still got plenty of training against NBA quality opponents.

There are pretty strict rules on how much time a college player can train with the coaching staff per week, even then the level of training isnt even close to what someone would get in the NBA. Ya he was playing actual games, but ya give me a year of being a full time NBA player over the limits they set on college players any day of the week when it comes to bettering your game.

Agreed, but you missed the most important part: getting used to the schedule. Going from playing ~30 odd games to 82 games cross country is a HUGE change and spending an extra year prepping for that is a big advantage.

This is what a rookie wall exists. After a certain amount of games, rookies tend to stop playing well because they're just not used to the load or the travelling.

Simmons only began traveling with the team around mid-January last year, so closer to 40ish games of traveling experience last year.

[clyde21]

Im all for calling Simmons a rookie this year, doesnt really make much difference to me since the ROTY award holds pretty low value in the grand scheme of things in my opinion. So I dont agree with clyde on that part, but ya I agree with Clyde on the 2nd part. Even if he was rehabbing for the majority of the year, he was still spending probably 8 hours a day working out, rehabbing, training, learning to scout and being taught by the elite of the elite for basketball. And I believe he was doing 5 on 5 drills around all star weekend or so his rookie year but just never came back, so that means he still got plenty of training against NBA quality opponents.

There are pretty strict rules on how much time a college player can train with the coaching staff per week, even then the level of training isnt even close to what someone would get in the NBA. Ya he was playing actual games, but ya give me a year of being a full time NBA player over the limits they set on college players any day of the week when it comes to bettering your game.

Agreed, but you missed the most important part: getting used to the schedule. Going from playing ~30 odd games to 82 games cross country is a HUGE change and spending an extra year prepping for that is a big advantage.

This is what a rookie wall exists. After a certain amount of games, rookies tend to stop playing well because they're just not used to the load or the travelling.

Simmons only began traveling with the team around mid-January last year, so closer to 40ish games of traveling experience last year.

That's a forty game head start, then.

[jazzfan1971]

He is a rookie because that is how the rules work.

Damn.

He's an amazing player that will deserve every iota of a ROY award. Folks need to quit looking for asterisks. (and if Mitchell happens to win, please try to accept that he deserved it as well and not look to diminish his accomplishment either)

Lets quit tearing these guys down, both are amazing. Best of luck to both to win a hotly contested award, but mostly best of luck in the next 15 years of their career giving us folks hours of enjoyment, amazement and entertainment.

[downtownpie]

Agreed, but you missed the most important part: getting used to the schedule. Going from playing ~30 odd games to 82 games cross country is a HUGE change and spending an extra year prepping for that is a big advantage.

This is what a rookie wall exists. After a certain amount of games, rookies tend to stop playing well because they're just not used to the load or the travelling.

Simmons only began traveling with the team around mid-January last year, so closer to 40ish games of traveling experience last year.

That's a forty game head start, then.

watch Simmons's interview on First Take. He says he didn't have much advantage from last year as he had to get used to travelling this year. Brett Brown has also discussed how Simmons never travelled so lets put that one to bed.

I also chuckle at the thought that playing college ball last year as opposed to being in a moon boot is a disadvantage. Pretty sure Louisville arent training / playing in a shed in someone's back yard and being coached by Bill from the local Wallmart.

[michaelm]

Agreed, but you missed the most important part: getting used to the schedule. Going from playing ~30 odd games to 82 games cross country is a HUGE change and spending an extra year prepping for that is a big advantage.

This is what a rookie wall exists. After a certain amount of games, rookies tend to stop playing well because they're just not used to the load or the travelling.

Simmons only began traveling with the team around mid-January last year, so closer to 40ish games of traveling experience last year.

That's a forty game head start, then.

I presume not all of the Sixers last 40 games last year were away games in any case, but by your argument every player after being drafted should just take their first year off, put on a moon boot and take plane flights around the country for 6 months.

[PLO]

Ben Simmons is doing nothing for the Donovan Mitchell ROTY push.

[Alex DeLarge]

Nice numbers, Ben...but how about making a FT down the stretch?

[_Joker]

Ben Simmons is doing nothing for the Donovan Mitchell ROTY push.

What does this mean?

[LordCovington33]

Nice numbers, Ben...but how about making a FT down the stretch?

[Sixersftw]

Nice numbers, Ben...but how about making a FT down the stretch?

This aged well.

[LordCovington33]

Ben Simmons 32-7-11-1-1 (1 turnover and 2 fouls) and clutch free throws at the end.

[LordCovington33]

Nice numbers, Ben...but how about making a FT down the stretch?

This aged well.

As well as milk left out in the sun.

[WMDman]

Nice numbers, Ben...but how about making a FT down the stretch?

L

[JojoSlimbiid]

Gonna need folks to start nuking some of their post in this thread. These takes won't age well.

[PLO]

Ben Simmons is doing nothing for the Donovan Mitchell ROTY push.

What does this mean?

Simmons had a very good/excellent game so given he's in competition with (the also very good/excellent) Donovan Mitchell for ROTY he's not helping Mitchell out here.

[BullyKing]

Embiid and Simmons combined line tonight:

62 points, 24-35 from the field (3-3 from 3), 20 rebounds, 16 assists (against only 3 TOs), 4 steals, 5 blocks

[downtownpie]

Nice numbers, Ben...but how about making a FT down the stretch?

your misses would leave you if you went that early all the time.

[RB34]

Nice numbers, Ben...but how about making a FT down the stretch?

Oh yes! Can’t get much better than this haha.

Guess he heard you.