RealGM 2017 Top 100 #93 (Billy Cunningham)

[pandrade83]

I don't think Tiny is Top 100 material & I've discussed why at length before.

It appears that both Cunningham & Walker have legitimate cases to make our list.

Their peaks/primes appear similar - but Walker has a leg up because of longevity.

Thus, Chet Walker is narrowly my alternate.

[SactoKingsFan]

Just a reminder for you two pertaining to this initial ballot-system runoff: I know who your top pick in the runoff is, but unless you stipulate a secondary pick (with brief reasons why) before the deadline, your top picks will only be assessed as 1 pt (as apposed to 2 pts).

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My alternate for the Run-off will be Mookie Blaylock. Had one of the more impressive peaks and a really good 5 year prime. There's the short prime and inefficient scoring, but I'm sold on Mookie's defensive impact and think he made enough positive offensive contributions to be one of the top remaining candidates.

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[SactoKingsFan]

Primary: Vlade Divac
Divac is still my top candidate. One of the more underrated defensive bigs with impact metrics suggesting he was a legit defensive anchor. All-time great passing from a center with some shooting range and solid low post scoring. Known for high BBIQ and good leadership qualities.

A couple of questions about Vlade:

-- Which impact metrics are you referring to that suggest he was a legit defensive anchor?

-- What makes you characterize his passing as "all-time great"? He had a nice peak season in 2003-04 and another in 2004-05, but he's really up and down. Doing searches for centers and center forwards for both peak and career assist average and percentage, he's there but not as notable as other guys. (Alvin Adams is the guy who jumps out at me on those searches.)

I want to give him a fair shake, so I'm just looking for a bit more about him. Thanks.

Re: defensive anchor

Divac has among the best 5 year DRAPM from Doc MJ’s 98-14 RAPM spreadsheet, which doesn't include early career data when he was more mobile and athletic. The top 5 year DRAPM goes to Mutombo who has a case for GOAT modern defender.  Some defensive bigs we see in the same neighborhood as Divac include David Robinson, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Alonzo Mourning and Andrew Bogut.

The box-score estimated version of plus/minus also paints a very favorable picture of Divac as a defender.

Divac’s top 5 DBPM: 4.0, 3.8, 3.6, 3.6, 3.5; Prime DBPM: 3.2

Re: all-time great passing

There's more to passing than just assists. Looking primarily at assists would suggest Mike Bibby was the best passer on the Kings even though Webber and Divac were key facilitators and the most gifted passers on those teams. Divac's passing went beyond APG. He was a good decision maker and made difficult passes in traffic look routine. Rick Adelman trusted Divac's decision making, vision and hands enough to have him take on the role of primary post facilitator.

Here's a couple videos showing some of older Vlade's passing ability:

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

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[trex_8063]

Here are the point totals.....

Thru post #43:

Billy Cunningham - 6
Mookie Blaylock - 5
Chet Walker - 4
Tiny Archibald - 3

So we will narrow this to a normal 2-player runoff between Billy Cunningham and Mookie Blaylock. For that I have the counts thus....

Billy Cunningham - 4 (Clyde Frazier, Outside, SactoKingsFan, trex_8063)
Mookie Blaylock - 2 (dhsilv2, pandrade83)


If your name isn't shown ^^^^here, please state your pick between Billy and Mookie with brief reasons why. If we hear from all the usual suspects sooner rather than later, I may conclude this runoff in more like 12 hours instead of 24.

Spoiler:

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[penbeast0]

Sorry I missed the runoff (Chet Walker would have been my vote so probably just as well).

Both are reasonably inefficient players, but Cunningham brings more of almost everything except longevity to the table (Mookie is also a better defender though Cunningham was pretty good). Better scorer, better rebounder for his position (though Mookie was pretty good there), even a better playmaker. Both being longtime Bullets rivals, I remember our facing them many times and we gamed against Cunningham, not really against Mookie. I just have to think Billy C's impact was higher though I can't be sure.

Billy Cunningham

[JoeMalburg]

I just can't.

[Clyde Frazier]

I just can't.

Then don't.

[dhsilv2]

7 voters, 4 are with cunningham, think we can move on

On that anyone have a good video on him (did I miss it?). He wasn't on my radar for this project. Though I mostly ignore the aba.

[penbeast0]

7 voters, 4 are with cunningham, think we can move on

On that anyone have a good video on him (did I miss it?). He wasn't on my radar for this project. Though I mostly ignore the aba.

Cunningham only played a year and a half in the ABA, he was mainly a star for the 76ers.

[trex_8063]

Thru post #49:

Billy Cunningham - 5 (penbeast0, Clyde Frazier, Outside, SactoKingsFan, trex_8063)
Mookie Blaylock - 2 (dhsilv2, pandrade83)


I'll have the next up in a moment.

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[dhsilv2]

7 voters, 4 are with cunningham, think we can move on

On that anyone have a good video on him (did I miss it?). He wasn't on my radar for this project. Though I mostly ignore the aba.

Cunningham only played a year and a half in the ABA, he was mainly a star for the 76ers.

yeah but he has his "MVP" in the aba which i think based on comments moved him up.