The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

stitches · Post #1361 » by **stitches** » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:04 pm

I don't think Simmons lacking a 3p shot is a huge hole on its own. It would become a hole if it prevented him from dominating the game and to me he seems like he's well on his way to dominate in the league even without the shot. Of course he would be better if he had the 3p shot, but you can say that about any player - he would be better if he had this or that skill. But that's not how Simmons wins in the league, his skill set is not reliant on that shot. Simmons has surpassed all my expectations for him and IMO is turning into one of the most exciting players to watch in the league. I think a bigger hole in his game right now is his FT shooting than his 3p shooting.

loveandbeer · Post #1362 » by **loveandbeer** » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:31 pm

sixerhp3 wrote:Why does the national media continue to downplay Simmons game? Brendan Haywood on NBA TV just picked Mitchell for ROY because he scores 2 PPG more on "great percentages" while leading the Jazz to wins, while putting no effort in describing what Simmons has done. Multiple people across ESPN have used the same arguments without bringing up any type of stats/facts that favor Simmons for the award.

Is this the media trying to bash the process? Is it because Simmons is from Australia?

To me it is mind boggling, does anyone see this bias as well?

I know right? Just mind-boggling to me. Also strange to see that the two are so close in the vote on this thread.

I think it may be because Simmons has been doing his thing the whole season, while Mitchell came about later on to “challenge” the incumbent. Also has a nice story as the 13th pick suddenly making headlines and making his name known, that sort of thing.

But this is clearly Simmons. Just unreal what he’s doing.

commentatorer · Post #1363 » by **commentatorer** » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:15 pm

loveandbeer wrote:
sixerhp3 wrote:Why does the national media continue to downplay Simmons game? Brendan Haywood on NBA TV just picked Mitchell for ROY because he scores 2 PPG more on "great percentages" while leading the Jazz to wins, while putting no effort in describing what Simmons has done. Multiple people across ESPN have used the same arguments without bringing up any type of stats/facts that favor Simmons for the award.

Is this the media trying to bash the process? Is it because Simmons is from Australia?

To me it is mind boggling, does anyone see this bias as well?

I know right? Just mind-boggling to me. Also strange to see that the two are so close in the vote on this thread.

I think it may be because Simmons has been doing his thing the whole season, while Mitchell came about later on to “challenge” the incumbent. Also has a nice story as the 13th pick suddenly making headlines and making his name known, that sort of thing.

But this is clearly Simmons. Just unreal what he’s doing.

Maybe the LeBron media fans are feeling threatened.
In the 4 years LeBron played in Miami: 7.3rpg 7.1apg 1.6spg 0.8bpg
Ben Simmons: 7.7rpg 7.4apg 1.9spg 0.9bpg

levon · Post #1364 » by **levon** » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:32 pm

I thought this was funny

Jadoogar · Post #1365 » by **Jadoogar** » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:37 pm

stitches wrote:I don't think Simmons lacking a 3p shot is a huge hole on its own. It would become a hole if it prevented him from dominating the game and to me he seems like he's well on his way to dominate in the league even without the shot. Of course he would be better if he had the 3p shot, but you can say that about any player - he would be better if he had this or that skill. But that's not how Simmons wins in the league, his skill set is not reliant on that shot. Simmons has surpassed all my expectations for him and IMO is turning into one of the most exciting players to watch in the league. I think a bigger hole in his game right now is his FT shooting than his 3p shooting.

I think for players like him and Giannis, it's more important for them to be surrounded by shooters rather than them shooting 3s themselves, since they can drive and kick so effectively. Of course it would be nice if they could shoot but they have the handles, passing, height, speed, strength, etc to dominate in other ways.

I agree he needs to improve FT shooting if he's going to continue getting most of his shots at the rim.

Jadoogar · Post #1366 » by **Jadoogar** » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:40 pm

paulbball wrote:DoMi is the rookie of the year.

Ben Simmons is the best player playing their 'first' year in the league this year, but he is NOT a rookie.

So will you discount international players as well? Since they have played professionally before, they're not technically rookies?

CptCrunch · Post #1367 » by **CptCrunch** » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:08 pm

Jadoogar wrote:
paulbball wrote:DoMi is the rookie of the year.

Ben Simmons is the best player playing their 'first' year in the league this year, but he is NOT a rookie.

So will you discount international players as well? Since they have played professionally before, they're not technically rookies?

You have to lump international players in somewhere. Right now, we call them rookies, but anyone who spends at least one year in the league should in no way be called a rookie. The amount of conditioning, learning and coaching you receive within a year is incomparable to college.

_Joker · Post #1368 » by **_Joker** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:20 am

paulbball wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:
paulbball wrote:DoMi is the rookie of the year.

Ben Simmons is the best player playing their 'first' year in the league this year, but he is NOT a rookie.

So will you discount international players as well? Since they have played professionally before, they're not technically rookies?

You have to lump international players in somewhere. Right now, we call them rookies, but anyone who spends at least one year in the league should in no way be called a rookie. The amount of conditioning, learning and coaching you receive within a year is incomparable to college.

Yeah all that time in a boot and sitting around on his couch was just great for his conditioning. Thankfully he didn't have to play a full College season, what with the training, etc, then he'd have really been out of shape.

cksdayoff · Post #1369 » by **cksdayoff** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:40 am

_Joker wrote:
paulbball wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:
So will you discount international players as well? Since they have played professionally before, they're not technically rookies?

You have to lump international players in somewhere. Right now, we call them rookies, but anyone who spends at least one year in the league should in no way be called a rookie. The amount of conditioning, learning and coaching you receive within a year is incomparable to college.

Yeah all that time in a boot and sitting around on his couch was just great for his conditioning. Thankfully he didn't have to play a full College season, what with the training, etc, then he'd have really been out of shape.

cksdayoff · Post #1370 » by **cksdayoff** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:43 am

Winglish wrote:
cksdayoff wrote:idiots in sports media still bring up ben's 0-10 from the 3 point line. (he hasn't shot any 3 pointers all season, only full court or half court shots to beat the clock before a quarter or a half)
They are not idiots. Lack of 3 point shooting is a big hole in Simmons' game. Same with the inability to make free throws. Simmons is an exciting player with a ton of potential. It is fair to point out those things that are holding him back from taking the next step as a basketball player.

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they are idiots because that 0-10 from "3 point range" is completely out of context. they think ben is 0-10 from 3 point land.

BEN SIMMONS DID NOT SHOOT ANY 3's THIS SEASON. NONE. HE HASNT ATTEMPTED ONE 3 POINT SHOT THIS SEASON. THOSE 10 ATTEMPTS WERE FULL COURT HEAVES.

LakersSoul · Post #1371 » by **LakersSoul** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:04 am

13 points
7 rebs
5 assists
3 steals

For the bust, Lonzo. Lonzo was a perfect 4-4 (3-3 from 3) and 2-2 from FTs. Lonzo and the Lakers just ran the Hawks off the floor. That was an exhibition game.

Andy123 · Post #1372 » by **Andy123** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:19 am

It should be Mitchell better than Simmons .

Andy123 · Post #1373 » by **Andy123** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:23 am

Winglish wrote:
cksdayoff wrote:idiots in sports media still bring up ben's 0-10 from the 3 point line. (he hasn't shot any 3 pointers all season, only full court or half court shots to beat the clock before a quarter or a half)
They are not idiots. Lack of 3 point shooting is a big hole in Simmons' game. Same with the inability to make free throws. Simmons is an exciting player with a ton of potential. It is fair to point out those things that are holding him back from taking the next step as a basketball player.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

Ben Simmons is a second player that's a fact. He should no where near a ROOKIE OF THE YEAR award .

Andy123 · Post #1374 » by **Andy123** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:28 am

bebopdeluxe wrote:
Jazztop wrote:
LordCovington33 wrote:

Read on Twitter
/photo/1
Ben creating clear separation from the pack.

It’s telling...but nothing is as good as the eye test for me. The eye test tells me Donovan Mitchell is a better defender than that graphic suggests. I’ve also seen Sixer games and Simmons is really, really good on that side of the ball so that fits with the defensive rating.

I still think this race is wide open and will continue to see saw. I think if the numbers stay similar and Utah make the playoffs, you have to give it to DM.

I love these "eye test" arguments for Mitchell...almost as much as the ROY buzz that Mitchell gets after his dunk in Rising Stars game (the game where he scored in single digits while Simmons pollutes the stat sheet).

Dude shot 8-for-20 last night, which passes my "eye test" of his typical box score. Pretty much forgettble numbers other than his scoring as well - as well as his 1-to-2 AST/TO ratio.

Between these "eye test" comments and references to "if the Jazz make the playoffs DM is the ROY", I wonder what the Sixers have to do as a team to offset this narrative. 4 seed? 50 wins?

Its simple really, have Ben play last year..Instead of sitting him out , gaming the system.
Also don't play Embiid this year so Ben peers his team to the playoffs as a first option.

Post #1375 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:34 am

Opinions aren’t facts and generally then there are the rules.

Young gun 6 · Post #1376 » by **Young gun 6** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:37 am

Jackson with 20-12-1-1 in 29mins today

markjay · Post #1377 » by **markjay** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:40 am

levon wrote:
I thought this was funny

Somebody should redo this after tonight. 13 points on 4 shots will jump that recent ts % up.

Gus McCrae · Post #1378 » by **Gus McCrae** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:43 am

Lonzo shooting 44% beyond the arc in his last 10 games on 5.5 attempts per game.

LakersSoul · Post #1379 » by **LakersSoul** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:47 am

markjay wrote:
levon wrote:
I thought this was funny

Somebody should redo this after tonight. 13 points on 4 shots will jump that recent ts % up.

Lonzo PIMP on player impact. Turning advaced stats up a few notches and then some. Pace and passing has been on another level. You can even see Lonzo on another level above even IT. The Lakers have to start making their damn shots and they have to keep their heads up. Lonzo had a few more opportunities but teammates were slow to look up and missing bunnies.

LAL · Post #1380 » by **LAL** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:57 am

Gus McCrae wrote:Lonzo shooting 44% beyond the arc in his last 10 games on 5.5 attempts per game.

It will be so nice when the narrative that he can’t shoot dies. He’ll be a 40% shooter from 3 on volume in his prime and maybe as soon as next year. There is no need for him to change his form at this point in time.

Who wins? (May select 2 options.)