ESPN trying to pull a 180 on Harden coverage?

Post #1 » by **Mr. E** » Thu Mar 8, 2018 4:43 pm

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22669488/attacks-james-harden-defense-mostly-unfair

An article about how the internet memes and videos lambasting Harden's defense are mostly unearned. It's almost like some of the biased fans who put that stuff together had an agenda or something... :lol:

Some interesting stats are covered here. There won't be enough to convince the gaggle of internet haters that they are wrong; but let's not let numbers get in their way. The "mah memes" crowd aren't worth engaging in conversation at any rate.

This is not an argument that he is Prime Chris Paul on defense, but they are painting a picture of a more complete player than most give credit.

Of course, this is ESPN who has done nothing but push an anti-Harden/Rockets narrative for so long now, so I half expect this writer to get fired. :lol:

Post #2 » by **TMU** » Thu Mar 8, 2018 10:21 pm

His lateral quickness isn't great but he's been solid deflecting passes and contesting shots. I don't think these traits are something new, but obviously they are much better this season. Actually, IIRC his defense is 2015 wasn't all that bad.

These are all just lazy narratives. The same people who talked about FIT after watching ZERO games into this season.

Post #3 » by **ken6199** » Fri Mar 9, 2018 1:24 am

We've known a player for years. He wasn't a lousy defender back in Arizona, neither was he in OKC. He ain't going to turn into a laughable defender in a year, or a good defender in a couple of years. He is who he is. We know his strength and weakness when it comes to defense. His size, lateral movement, awareness, commitment, how much energy left in him to spend on defense, pacing his D so that he can carry the load on offense, etc. etc.

The so called experts, media members, they are at least not worse than us. They know it. They just like to go against the popular opinion so that they can look "smart", or "a step ahead of the curve". Now they are sensing Harden's bad reputation on defense is about to come to an end, his team is about to have massive success in post season, they produce this article so that in a few weeks time, they can point to it and say "I told you so".

**** the experts.

K_chile22 · Post #4 » by **K_chile22** » Fri Mar 9, 2018 8:18 am

I don't like lumping all ESPN writers into one entity, but Harden has been at least totally fine on defense this season. His first two seasons here he was completely awful and that's why he has the reputation he has now, so I guess there's no one to blame but himself and the impact of first impressions (as a number one guy)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using RealGM mobile app

moofs · Post #5 » by **moofs** » Fri Mar 9, 2018 6:48 pm

*BSPN.

F*** them.
Whores trying to turn a trick.

Lazy Faizy · Post #6 » by **Lazy Faizy** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:16 pm

Most people don't even watch the Rockets regularly. Just a few weeks ago Harden drew a foul on a 3 pointer and people were going crazy on the GB saying that Harden is bad for the league and blah blah blah. When in fact he hasn't tried to draw fouls much at all this entire season. People don't make conclusions based on their own experiences, they just go with whatever the popular narrative is and also by a certain player's past reputation.

I know this is not what the topic is about but honestly it's hard to read through any Rockets-related thread on the GB. I don't even click on such threads anymore, I just ignore them completely.

Post #7 » by **Mr. E** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:13 pm

Lazy Faizy wrote:Most people don't even watch the Rockets regularly. Just a few weeks ago Harden drew a foul on a 3 pointer and people were going crazy on the GB saying that Harden is bad for the league and blah blah blah. When in fact he hasn't tried to draw fouls much at all this entire season. People don't make conclusions based on their own experiences, they just go with whatever the popular narrative is and also by a certain player's past reputation.

I know this is not what the topic is about but honestly it's hard to read through any Rockets-related thread on the GB. I don't even click on such threads anymore, I just ignore them completely.

As a GB mod I have to say (and it pains me to do so) that forum is not the best place to try to discuss the Rockets. The Rockets are a team with a target right now by bitter and jealous people and too many of them try to make anything as negative as possible every chance that they get.

We (the GB mods) do all try to keep an eye out for as much as possible, but with the sheer traffic a lot of times we only see what is reported.

Lazy Faizy · Post #8 » by **Lazy Faizy** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:15 am

Mr. E wrote:
Lazy Faizy wrote:Most people don't even watch the Rockets regularly. Just a few weeks ago Harden drew a foul on a 3 pointer and people were going crazy on the GB saying that Harden is bad for the league and blah blah blah. When in fact he hasn't tried to draw fouls much at all this entire season. People don't make conclusions based on their own experiences, they just go with whatever the popular narrative is and also by a certain player's past reputation.

I know this is not what the topic is about but honestly it's hard to read through any Rockets-related thread on the GB. I don't even click on such threads anymore, I just ignore them completely.

As a GB mod I have to say (and it pains me to do so) that forum is not the best place to try to discuss the Rockets. The Rockets are a team with a target right now by bitter and jealous people and too many of them try to make anything as negative as possible every chance that they get.

We (the GB mods) do all try to keep an eye out for as much as possible, but with the sheer traffic a lot of times we only see what is reported.

Yeah it's nothing against the GB. Most posters are pretty mature and intelligent. But I just dislike the constant narrative that the Rockets are playoff chokers, or floppers, or play bad defense. Because those things aren't true this season.

The mods generally do a great job. Without mods this place would be terrible lol.

Post #9 » by **TMU** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:08 pm

Lazy Faizy wrote:
Mr. E wrote:
Lazy Faizy wrote:Most people don't even watch the Rockets regularly. Just a few weeks ago Harden drew a foul on a 3 pointer and people were going crazy on the GB saying that Harden is bad for the league and blah blah blah. When in fact he hasn't tried to draw fouls much at all this entire season. People don't make conclusions based on their own experiences, they just go with whatever the popular narrative is and also by a certain player's past reputation.

I know this is not what the topic is about but honestly it's hard to read through any Rockets-related thread on the GB. I don't even click on such threads anymore, I just ignore them completely.

As a GB mod I have to say (and it pains me to do so) that forum is not the best place to try to discuss the Rockets. The Rockets are a team with a target right now by bitter and jealous people and too many of them try to make anything as negative as possible every chance that they get.

We (the GB mods) do all try to keep an eye out for as much as possible, but with the sheer traffic a lot of times we only see what is reported.

Yeah it's nothing against the GB. Most posters are pretty mature and intelligent. But I just dislike the constant narrative that the Rockets are playoff chokers, or floppers, or play bad defense. Because those things aren't true this season.

The mods generally do a great job. Without mods this place would be terrible lol.

What bothers me most about the GB is that Steph Curry has become this untouchable deity where a lot of his apologists are arguing that he's better than Michael Jordan. Whereas with Harden, he's basically made into this villain with these nonsense narratives of constantly poor defense and lacking any postseason success. A lot of the arguments there have been skewed in favor of other players while consistently trying to put down Harden. I certainly don't blame any of our avid fans who have continuously defended Harden using logic and facts.

I'm tired of all of this, and I say that as someone who's not even the biggest James Harden fan. The hate that he gets is very much unjustified.

RaoulDuke79 · Post #10 » by **RaoulDuke79** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:59 pm

I rarely post on the GB, but when I do I've found that just quoting random Kids in the Hall sketches is quite enjoyable and more worthwhile than actually participating in the discussions, at least in the predictably boring and silly "Rockets have no chance" or "Harden and Paul are chokers" type threads that seem to pop up frequently.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate how original it is to spew out such gems as "start the playoffs" in response to what it would take to stop the Rockets, but still...yea.

Anyhoo...

Lazy Faizy · Post #11 » by **Lazy Faizy** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:36 am

TMU wrote:
Lazy Faizy wrote:
Mr. E wrote:
As a GB mod I have to say (and it pains me to do so) that forum is not the best place to try to discuss the Rockets. The Rockets are a team with a target right now by bitter and jealous people and too many of them try to make anything as negative as possible every chance that they get.

We (the GB mods) do all try to keep an eye out for as much as possible, but with the sheer traffic a lot of times we only see what is reported.

Yeah it's nothing against the GB. Most posters are pretty mature and intelligent. But I just dislike the constant narrative that the Rockets are playoff chokers, or floppers, or play bad defense. Because those things aren't true this season.

The mods generally do a great job. Without mods this place would be terrible lol.

What bothers me most about the GB is that Steph Curry has become this untouchable deity where a lot of his apologists are arguing that he's better than Michael Jordan. Whereas with Harden, he's basically made into this villain with these nonsense narratives of constantly poor defense and lacking any postseason success. A lot of the arguments there have been skewed in favor of other players while consistently trying to put down Harden. I certainly don't blame any of our avid fans who have continuously defended Harden using logic and facts.

I'm tired of all of this, and I say that as someone who's not even the biggest James Harden fan. The hate that he gets is very much unjustified.

I agree about Curry. His numbers aren't even that great in the playoffs (especially in the Finals) compared to the regular season but he always gets the benefit of the doubt. I think Harden's bad defense when he first came to the Rockets and him getting fouled so many times on 3 point attempts last season are the 2 main things that have hurt his reputation. Along with game 6 against the Spurs last season. But Harden's numbers in close-out playoff games have been pretty damn good except for that one game last season. People just can't seem to get over it. But also the same people that hate on him will then say that he's a top 5 player in the league and the MVP this season. Their logic (or lack thereof) doesn't make sense.

It's definitely frustrating but what can do you. I feel the best thing to do is just ignore it. Rockets have been a joy to watch this season and that's what matters most to me. We'll see what happens in the playoffs.

Post #12 » by **Mr. E** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:55 pm

On the GB I just saw a few more people make a comment like "Harden doesn't even try to score, he just goes for fouls."

They claim that they watch the games. I'm not sure if I buy that.

Harden does get to the line a lot; but so many of those shots where he's fouled he either makes them or he comes damned close. I feel like people who make that particular claim are projecting something.

RaoulDuke79 · Post #13 » by **RaoulDuke79** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:16 pm

Well damn! If he ain't even trying to score and is still putting up the numbers he has been, imagine if he actually tried to score!

moofs · Post #14 » by **moofs** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:48 pm

Mr. E wrote:I feel like people who make that particular claim are projecting something.

Weird thing about that. I used to accuse people of projecting things. They started accusing me of projecting projection.

O.... k.... so now what?