DeAndre Ayton

[yoyoboy]

I would take Jackson over him. Ayton is just too much of a risk for me. His defensive instincts are brutal and he just doesn't use his physical advantages to their potential.

[B-Ball Freak]

Definitely not a top 3 pick for me

[RCM88x]

I don't think you can rate a player like him on one tournament game, especially while playing on a Sean Miller team. They look like this every year in the tournament.

However I do think you need good guard play to make a player like him reach his potential. Similar to the issues AD has had the past few years. Unfortunately in the lottery some teams are probably never going to actually provide that for him.

[King Ken]

This is the reason I just can't put Ayton at the top of my board. I think he has the highest ceiling but man it's games like this scare me. He has too many of these games where he should be dominant but he ends up not being dominant. The biggest game of the year and he and his team just gets dominated by a team that had no business dominating them.

My draft board has remained fairly similar to what I had in Dec.

Bagley at 1 as a tier 1 prospect.
Ayton and Bamba as tier 2 prospects.
Doncic, JJJ, Porter Jr. as tier 3.
Carter Jr and the Bridges as tier 4.
The PG's (Young, Sexton, SGA) and Knox as tier 5.

People keep wanting to knock Bagley and praise Ayton but Ayton has critical flaws and my biggest issue is really his personality. I keep saying this, his interviews, mindset, and vision remind me of Marvin Williams. That's not a knock to Ayton personally as Marvin is a good guy but Marvin left a lot of the table. If only he had that drive. I said Wiggins as well but I think Marvin and Ayton are just better teammates and want to win. Wiggins is selfish as well with a bad mindset.

Bagley has the right mindset, drive, and vision. He has the best talent and while his skills are a WIP, his athletic ability is elite along with his motor. A lot of scouts overdo it. His wingspan isn't great, he's doesn't have a position, he's a tweener, but he tries to do it all and works to do it all. I think scouts are overdoing it.

While Ayton might be better than a 18-year-old Shaq, he doesn't have that same passion to win or knowledge of the center and understanding of the position as Shaq had when he left as a Junior. While Ayton has zero bust potential as he's a top 10 center right now in the NBA, I think his disappointment potential is sky high. I don't think this is as difficult. Bagley is the biggest no-brainer in this class.

[getrichordie]

How reasonable is it to suspect that Ayton lost on purpose? His buddies bet on the game, he gets a cut and he still gets drafted high and doesn’t have to risk injury. It would be the smart thing to do. Save yourself for the NBA, make some money on the side. Even w/o the betting, it’s the smart thing to do.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[King Ken]

How reasonable is it to suspect that Ayton lost on purpose? His buddies bet on the game, he gets a cut and he still gets drafted high and doesn’t have to risk injury. It would be the smart thing to do. Save yourself for the NBA, make some money on the side. Even w/o the betting, it’s the smart thing to do.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

He didn't lose on purpose.

[getrichordie]

How reasonable is it to suspect that Ayton lost on purpose? His buddies bet on the game, he gets a cut and he still gets drafted high and doesn’t have to risk injury. It would be the smart thing to do. Save yourself for the NBA, make some money on the side. Even w/o the betting, it’s the smart thing to do.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

He didn't lose on purpose.

Why is that hard to believe?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[916fan]

lmao are people seriously going to change Ayton's stock because of 1 single tournament game? wowers. Does this game reaffirm the belief for people that he's not a winner? He doesn't try hard enough when it counts? YO. I got news for you. The NBA is a 82 game season. Players are going to have inconsistent games. Players, specifically YOUNG players are going to disappear sometimes. Where was all this talk when he put up 32pts 14rebs on on 13-16 shooting vs. UCLA? Where was all this talk when he put up 32pts 18rebs on 14-20 shooting vs. USC? aka, the past 2 games? It wasn't here because it didn't fit narratives and reaffirm beliefs about him. Putting up 14pts 13rebs on 6-13 shooting is not the end of the world. You didn't need this 1 single game to tell you that yes, he has sucky defensive awareness. If you do, you're scouting wrong.

I wonder if he'd be better on a Calipari team where he only gets to take 10 shots a game and have people not question why he's not demanding the ball 24/7. Or why he's not putting up 20pts and 10rebs a game. OH WAIT.

[King Ken]

How reasonable is it to suspect that Ayton lost on purpose? His buddies bet on the game, he gets a cut and he still gets drafted high and doesn’t have to risk injury. It would be the smart thing to do. Save yourself for the NBA, make some money on the side. Even w/o the betting, it’s the smart thing to do.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

He didn't lose on purpose.

Why is that hard to believe?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Because he plays to win. Buffalo had experience and took the bigs out the game by their defensive package which is allowed due to the NCAA rules. Teams used to do this to freshman Shaq at LSU. He learned from this his Soph and wrecked havoc.

[getrichordie]

He didn't lose on purpose.

Why is that hard to believe?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Because he plays to win. Buffalo had experience and took the bigs out the game by their defensive package which is allowed due to the NCAA rules. Teams used to do this to freshman Shaq at LSU. He learned from this his Soph and wrecked havoc.

How do you know he plays to win? Do you know the guy? He took money to go play at Arizona.

And please explain in more detail about buffalo taking the bigs out. What do you mean by that?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[King Ken]

Why is that hard to believe?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Because he plays to win. Buffalo had experience and took the bigs out the game by their defensive package which is allowed due to the NCAA rules. Teams used to do this to freshman Shaq at LSU. He learned from this his Soph and wrecked havoc.

How do you know he plays to win? Do you know the guy? He took money to go play at Arizona.

And please explain in more detail about buffalo taking the bigs out. What do you mean by that?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Because he's not a quitter. He just isn't something who naturally plays with a lot of passion. I can tell, I play College Basketball. I know when someone is playing for alternative reasons.

Buffalo scheme Arizona's bigs out of the game and forced Zona's perimeter players to beat them. They didn't. They struggled. This is my biggest quarrels with Zona, too many hot and cold perimeter scorers. Last year Lauri used to bail them out shooting wise.

[bondom34]

There's no defensive 3 seconds in college it's easier to plan for bigs.

And everyone plays to win. Taking money wouldn't have a thing to do with it.

[King Ken]

There's no defensive 3 seconds in college it's easier to plan for bigs.

And everyone plays to win. Taking money wouldn't have a thing to do with it.

A lot of people think positioning for a center is easy but it's extremely hard on the college level. It takes years to master it. Very very few freshman centers have it out of HS. Okafor and Al Jefferson are just the names of few and that was their entire game. Positioning at the college level is just as important as footwork. This is why I don't go as hard on freshman centers but I will say this, most centers who enter the NBA as a freshman, have an extremely tough learning curve. Center and PG are the two positions with the most responsibility. If you notice, the best players in these positions tend to be Soph or Jr. I don't consider seniors as to me, that's like a redshirt senior in football. For me, a basketball upperclassmen as far as NBA prospects are concerned are Soph and Jrs.

While Ayton will play well, he has a long way before he starts helping any team win games.

[bondom34]

There's no defensive 3 seconds in college it's easier to plan for bigs.

And everyone plays to win. Taking money wouldn't have a thing to do with it.

A lot of people think positioning for a center is easy but it's extremely hard on the college level. It takes years to master it. Very very few freshman centers have it out of HS. Okafor and Al Jefferson are just the names of few and that was their entire game. Positioning at the college level is just as important as footwork. This is why I don't go as hard on freshman centers but I will say this, most centers who enter the NBA as a freshman, have an extremely tough learning curve. Center and PG are the two positions with the most responsibility. If you notice, the best players in these positions tend to be Soph or Jr. I don't consider seniors as to me, that's like a redshirt senior in football. For me, a basketball upperclassmen as far as NBA prospects are concerned are Soph and Jrs.

While Ayton will play well, he has a long way before he starts helping any team win games.

Agree there, though I kinda think he'd help a few teams win soon. Phoenix is one with no viable bigs who'd be helped.

[King Ken]

There's no defensive 3 seconds in college it's easier to plan for bigs.

And everyone plays to win. Taking money wouldn't have a thing to do with it.

A lot of people think positioning for a center is easy but it's extremely hard on the college level. It takes years to master it. Very very few freshman centers have it out of HS. Okafor and Al Jefferson are just the names of few and that was their entire game. Positioning at the college level is just as important as footwork. This is why I don't go as hard on freshman centers but I will say this, most centers who enter the NBA as a freshman, have an extremely tough learning curve. Center and PG are the two positions with the most responsibility. If you notice, the best players in these positions tend to be Soph or Jr. I don't consider seniors as to me, that's like a redshirt senior in football. For me, a basketball upperclassmen as far as NBA prospects are concerned are Soph and Jrs.

While Ayton will play well, he has a long way before he starts helping any team win games.

Agree there, though I kinda think he'd help a few teams win soon. Phoenix is one with no viable bigs who'd be helped.

He's not going to help any team win games as a rookie. He has a number of flaws that will show up Day 1. Those teams need a vet who knows how to play to help them win games. If he goes to my Hawks. He gonna be splitting time with Dedmon. Goes to the Kings, he's going to score but his +/- will be bad, especially defensively. He's just not good enough. He's playing off of decent skills with an exceptional body and talent level. That doesn't win you games in the NBA. You need guys who can carry a lot of responsibility.

There is only five players who could be a win positive players as rookies in this class: Doncic, The Bridges, Chimezie Metu and Chandler Hutchison. Wendell Carter Jr is the most ready to play out of all of the freshman. Most of them will flash and some will put up numbers like Ayton but it takes a lot to win in this league. MPJ is intriging Day 1.

[bondom34]

A lot of people think positioning for a center is easy but it's extremely hard on the college level. It takes years to master it. Very very few freshman centers have it out of HS. Okafor and Al Jefferson are just the names of few and that was their entire game. Positioning at the college level is just as important as footwork. This is why I don't go as hard on freshman centers but I will say this, most centers who enter the NBA as a freshman, have an extremely tough learning curve. Center and PG are the two positions with the most responsibility. If you notice, the best players in these positions tend to be Soph or Jr. I don't consider seniors as to me, that's like a redshirt senior in football. For me, a basketball upperclassmen as far as NBA prospects are concerned are Soph and Jrs.

While Ayton will play well, he has a long way before he starts helping any team win games.

Agree there, though I kinda think he'd help a few teams win soon. Phoenix is one with no viable bigs who'd be helped.

He's not going to help any team win games. He has a number of flaws that will show up Day 1. Those teams need a vet who knows how to play to help them win games. If he goes to my Hawks. He gonna be splitting time with Dedmon. Goes to the Kings, he's going to score but his +/- will be bad, especially defensively. He's just not good enough. He's playing off of decent skills with an exceptional body and talent level. That doesn't win you games in the NBA. You need guys who can carry a lot of responsibility.

It's more an indictment of how I feel about Phoenix's rotation than anything with him

[King Ken]

Agree there, though I kinda think he'd help a few teams win soon. Phoenix is one with no viable bigs who'd be helped.

He's not going to help any team win games. He has a number of flaws that will show up Day 1. Those teams need a vet who knows how to play to help them win games. If he goes to my Hawks. He gonna be splitting time with Dedmon. Goes to the Kings, he's going to score but his +/- will be bad, especially defensively. He's just not good enough. He's playing off of decent skills with an exceptional body and talent level. That doesn't win you games in the NBA. You need guys who can carry a lot of responsibility.

It's more an indictment of how I feel about Phoenix's rotation than anything with him

Phoenix biggest mistake was passing on Millsap. They need a vet who knows how to win. I been to several of their games and the problem had little to do with talent but all to do with understanding of your position, awareness, and winning plays and decisions. Honestly, they remind me of the Wiz with JaVale, John, Andray, and Nick in terms of none of them outside of Nick knew how to really play their position in the NBA. It was painful to watch. These guys are more talented as a group but the problem is the same.

There is so much that goes into winning than just talent and skills alone.

[clyde21]

I don't think you can rate a player like him on one tournament game, especially while playing on a Sean Miller team. They look like this every year in the tournament.

However I do think you need good guard play to make a player like him reach his potential. Similar to the issues AD has had the past few years. Unfortunately in the lottery some teams are probably never going to actually provide that for him.

This.

He's the type of big that needs good guard play to bring out his potential. Tonight Arizona's guards got thoroughly outplayed and it directly affected Ayton's contributions.

That said, he also did an absolutely terrible job helping his guards out by fighting for position or contributing on the defensive end. He needs to realize that if he's no contributing offensively, he needs to buckle down on the other end and impact the game from that standpoint.

Disappointing game, but I don't think it should change his ranking much. We already knew he can have games like this...the issue is limiting them at the next level.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

This is the reason I just can't put Ayton at the top of my board. I think he has the highest ceiling but man it's games like this scare me. He has too many of these games where he should be dominant but he ends up not being dominant. The biggest game of the year and he and his team just gets dominated by a team that had no business dominating them.

My draft board has remained fairly similar to what I had in Dec.

Bagley at 1 as a tier 1 prospect.
Ayton and Bamba as tier 2 prospects.
Doncic, JJJ, Porter Jr. as tier 3.
Carter Jr and the Bridges as tier 4.
The PG's (Young, Sexton, SGA) and Knox as tier 5.

People keep wanting to knock Bagley and praise Ayton but Ayton has critical flaws and my biggest issue is really his personality. I keep saying this, his interviews, mindset, and vision remind me of Marvin Williams. That's not a knock to Ayton personally as Marvin is a good guy but Marvin left a lot of the table. If only he had that drive. I said Wiggins as well but I think Marvin and Ayton are just better teammates and want to win. Wiggins is selfish as well with a bad mindset.

Bagley has the right mindset, drive, and vision. He has the best talent and while his skills are a WIP, his athletic ability is elite along with his motor. A lot of scouts overdo it. His wingspan isn't great, he's doesn't have a position, he's a tweener, but he tries to do it all and works to do it all. I think scouts are overdoing it.

While Ayton might be better than a 18-year-old Shaq, he doesn't have that same passion to win or knowledge of the center and understanding of the position as Shaq had when he left as a Junior. While Ayton has zero bust potential as he's a top 10 center right now in the NBA, I think his disappointment potential is sky high. I don't think this is as difficult. Bagley is the biggest no-brainer in this class.

if I had the top pick and had GM responsibilities; I would trade down to whomever wants Ayton. Bagley will be a producer at the next level FOR SURE. Ayton's motor runs hot and cold.

Where I differ from you is I think JJJ, as you call him, at one year younger is going to be the better prospect.

[Jkam31]

If I'm a fan of a top lottery team with shaky coaching or a shaky culture I'm absolutely terrified that my team picks Ayton (said as a Kings fan)

Nope I’d trust him with the way Joerger has the young guys playing and the fire Fox and Bogdan bring.

Also I’ve had Doncic 1 over him all year easily


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app