2017-2018 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread Part Deux: Follow the Melo Brick Road

[Andre Roberstan]

lol i don't even think donovan is a good coach. but a lot of what he says and does is motivated by other things. you guys jump down his throat for every thing that comes out of his mouth in post-game even when it's clear that it's not possible he actually believes these things. if he does then he's somehow lost basketball knowledge in the last three years. he is not stupid

100% with Justin on this. Believing the cliches that coaches and players spout in postgame is for casual fans.

[bondom34]

I can't disagree there. But there are other replies that would have been better. I don't buy what he said either.

[ThunderBolt]

Royce said that he thinks Melos confidence is lost, in part due to being asked to do less.

[Pillendreher]

Royce said that he thinks Melos confidence is lost, in part due to being asked to do less.

Local radio?

[ThunderBolt]

Royce said that he thinks Melos confidence is lost, in part due to being asked to do less.

Local radio?

Yes.

[slick_watts]

I can't disagree there. But there are other replies that would have been better. I don't buy what he said either.

so where is the disconnect? why is he saying it then, if it's coach-speak nonsense? what's the motivation? seems obvious that it's to publicly support melo and keep him happy, no?

[Pillendreher]

Royce said that he thinks Melos confidence is lost, in part due to being asked to do less.

Local radio?

Yes.

Did he offer anything else? The only way that is going to change without hurting the team is by playing him with the bench.

[ThunderBolt]

Guest said:
Regardless of the Boston and Portland games where OKC lost them in the closing minutes it's very clear they're a much better team now with Brewer in the starting lineup and the team is playing at a much higher level since he not only gives them defense but gives them a competent offensive player. It looks like he could probably be their starter for the next few years even though he's 32 so does OKC look to waive Roberson now since he's expendable? Presti has compiled the worst collection of shooting guards in the NBA (Roberson, Huestis, Ferguson and Abrines) and we can truly see that now since Brewer isn't really even a 2 yet is starting in that slot and having great success. If they can waive a couple of those guys and get another good prospect it would really help them going forward.

Brett Dawson replied:
My week doesn't really start until I read you saying "Presti has compiled the worst collection of shooting guards in the NBA" so thanks for that.

No, the Thunder isn’t going to waive Roberson. Trade him? Who knows. The Thunder was 16-4 in the last 20 games Roberson played, and he was going to be in the Defensive Player of the Year conversation. That’s not a guy you cut loose for nothing.

[ThunderBolt]

Local radio?

Yes.

Did he offer anything else? The only way that is going to change without hurting the team is by playing him with the bench.

Not really. His thinking was that Carmelo being asked to shoot less is just a role he’s not comfortable in and he’s overthinking his shots. I dont know if it’s true or not but maybe the silver lining is that he would be willing to open up his ntc.

[slick_watts]

Yes.

Did he offer anything else? The only way that is going to change without hurting the team is by playing him with the bench.

Not really. His thinking was that Carmelo being asked to shoot less is just a role he’s not comfortable in and he’s overthinking his shots. I dont know if it’s true or not but maybe the silver lining is that he would be willing to open up his ntc.

seems like nonsense to me. melo's getting a higher % of C&S shot attempts than ever, his pull-up attempts are still high (40% of total) but that's down from last year (50% of total). the problem is he is getting absolutely nothing at the ft line. career low ftr. he's losing 3 points per 100 possessions at the line alone due to lower frequency and lower accuracy.

basically he's traded FT line for more C&S attempts.

he's shooting 37% on C&S threes, which isn't great, so that trade-off hasn't worked out. he's at his best for us when his 3Pr is high and his attempts from 2pt range are low. he needs to be ryan anderson all the way. not this half-way version where he's still shooting 5-6+ pull-up jump shots a game.

i mean, how do you over-think spotting up from three? the problem isn't overthinking it's the thunder facilitating and being okay with him still doing 'melo things' even though his skills have eroded. this started last year but has been worse this year due to the FT issues.

[Andre Roberstan]

Did he offer anything else? The only way that is going to change without hurting the team is by playing him with the bench.

Not really. His thinking was that Carmelo being asked to shoot less is just a role he’s not comfortable in and he’s overthinking his shots. I dont know if it’s true or not but maybe the silver lining is that he would be willing to open up his ntc.

seems like nonsense to me. melo's getting a higher % of C&S shot attempts than ever, his pull-up attempts are still high (40% of total) but that's down from last year (50% of total). the problem is he is getting absolutely nothing at the ft line. career low ftr. he's losing 3 points per 100 possessions at the line alone due to lower frequency and lower accuracy.

basically he's traded FT line for more C&S attempts.

he's shooting 37% on C&S threes, which isn't great, so that trade-off hasn't worked out. he's at his best for us when his 3Pr is high and his attempts from 2pt range are low. he needs to be ryan anderson all the way. not this half-way version where he's still shooting 5-6+ pull-up jump shots a game.

i mean, how do you over-think spotting up from three? the problem isn't overthinking it's the thunder facilitating and being okay with him still doing 'melo things' even though his skills have eroded. this started last year but has been worse this year due to the FT issues.

Worth noting his percentage of shots at the rim has declined as his 3PA have gone up. Probably part of the reason his FTr is low. He just can't get to the rim any more.

[bondom34]

I can't disagree there. But there are other replies that would have been better. I don't buy what he said either.

so where is the disconnect? why is he saying it then, if it's coach-speak nonsense? what's the motivation? seems obvious that it's to publicly support melo and keep him happy, no?

No coach ever throws any player under the bus publicly. I had 2 issues.
1. That he's actually shown unwillingness to bench players in this instance.
2. His actual answer, even in coach speak was poor. Saying if he had benched Melo then people would ask him about that shouldn't be anything on your mind whenyoure in a game. Its a bad thing.to.say either way. And.saying.he's doing.this to appease Westbrook is different than saying he's doing it for Melo. They're separate people.

[slick_watts]

Worth noting his percentage of shots at the rim has declined as his 3PA have gone up. Probably part of the reason his FTr is low. He just can't get to the rim any more.

bbr has his % of shots at the rim down only slightly from last season. mid-range shots are down.

what's nuts to me-- i hadn't realized he's at 38% from 16-23 feet. melo's been a 43-44%+ shooter from that distance for years.

melo getting closer to achilles kobe territory.

[slick_watts]

I can't disagree there. But there are other replies that would have been better. I don't buy what he said either.

so where is the disconnect? why is he saying it then, if it's coach-speak nonsense? what's the motivation? seems obvious that it's to publicly support melo and keep him happy, no?

No coach ever throws any player under the bus publicly. I had 2 issues.
1. That he's actually shown unwillingness to bench players in this instance.
2. His actual answer, even in coach speak was poor. Saying if he had benched Melo then people would ask him about that shouldn't be anything on your mind whenyoure in a game. Its a bad thing.to.say either way. And.saying.he's doing.this to appease Westbrook is different than saying he's doing it for Melo. They're separate people.

what's donovan's motivation for keeping carmelo anthony happy? donovan called out adams in the media this season, and benched andre roberson early in the year. both those guys have been around longer. why do you think carmelo would get special treatment? what is making him tip toe around melo?

[bondom34]

so where is the disconnect? why is he saying it then, if it's coach-speak nonsense? what's the motivation? seems obvious that it's to publicly support melo and keep him happy, no?

No coach ever throws any player under the bus publicly. I had 2 issues.
1. That he's actually shown unwillingness to bench players in this instance.
2. His actual answer, even in coach speak was poor. Saying if he had benched Melo then people would ask him about that shouldn't be anything on your mind whenyoure in a game. Its a bad thing.to.say either way. And.saying.he's doing.this to appease Westbrook is different than saying he's doing it for Melo. They're separate people.

what's donovan's motivation for keeping carmelo anthony happy? donovan called out adams in the media this season, and benched andre roberson early in the year. both those guys have been around longer. why do you think carmelo would get special treatment? what is making him tip toe around melo?

Melo. Also he semi called out Adams one time in 3 years. Pretty sure he did to Russ once indirectly too. And he's benched Gibson inexplicably too. No e of these relate to anyone but those players.

[slick_watts]

No coach ever throws any player under the bus publicly. I had 2 issues.
1. That he's actually shown unwillingness to bench players in this instance.
2. His actual answer, even in coach speak was poor. Saying if he had benched Melo then people would ask him about that shouldn't be anything on your mind whenyoure in a game. Its a bad thing.to.say either way. And.saying.he's doing.this to appease Westbrook is different than saying he's doing it for Melo. They're separate people.

what's donovan's motivation for keeping carmelo anthony happy? donovan called out adams in the media this season, and benched andre roberson early in the year. both those guys have been around longer. why do you think carmelo would get special treatment? what is making him tip toe around melo?

Melo. Also he semi called out Adams one time in 3 years. Pretty sure he did to Russ once indirectly too. And he's benched Gibson inexplicably too. No e of these relate to anyone but those players.

i think you are being purposefully meandering. i recall carmelo anthony putting a full stop to any bench talks by smiling, laughing, and making an indignant comment to his friend and teammate paul george. i thought it was clear what was going on from that point forward, as far as melo's status with our two other star players and what that means. donovan has shown the willingness and ability to change up rotations and minutes for most of his players, often to the detriment of the team-- but still. we can both probably agree on that. but it stops at carmelo anthony. you already acknowledge his b.s. post-game line is b.s. so what's the reason it stops at carmelo anthony?

perhaps i am wrong. but this writing is on the wall.

[bondom34]

what's donovan's motivation for keeping carmelo anthony happy? donovan called out adams in the media this season, and benched andre roberson early in the year. both those guys have been around longer. why do you think carmelo would get special treatment? what is making him tip toe around melo?

Melo. Also he semi called out Adams one time in 3 years. Pretty sure he did to Russ once indirectly too. And he's benched Gibson inexplicably too. No e of these relate to anyone but those players.

i think you are being purposefully meandering. i recall carmelo anthony putting a full stop to any bench talks by smiling, laughing, and making an indignant comment to his friend and teammate paul george. i thought it was clear what was going on from that point forward, as far as melo's status with our two other star players and what that means. donovan has shown the willingness and ability to change up rotations and minutes for most of his players, often to the detriment of the team-- but still. we can both probably agree on that. but it stops at carmelo anthony. you already acknowledge his b.s. post-game line is b.s. so what's the reason it stops at carmelo anthony?

perhaps i am wrong. but this writing is on the wall.

Because his ego is bigger personally. You're trying.to.find fault where there is none due to a personal dislike and or belief of something not there. Westbrook likes Melo. Westbrook likes Adams. Westbrook likes Gibson. Westbrook likes Roberson. 3 of them have at times been inexplicably removed and that's against what he would want. Maybe he's just not to.blame for a change? That would be the simplest and most logical solution to.anyone looking from an outside pov.

He has benched players who were and are well liked before. He hasn't benched any with this big an ego personally. In general the simplest solution is often best. And in this case that's as simple as it gets.

[slick_watts]

Because his ego is bigger personally. You're trying.to.find fault where there is none due to a personal dislike and or belief of something not there. Westbrook likes Melo. Westbrook likes Adams. Westbrook likes Gibson. Westbrook likes Roberson. 3 of them have at times been inexplicably removed and that's against what he would want. Maybe he's just not to.blame for a change? That would be the simplest and most logical solution to.anyone looking from an outside pov.

He has benched players who were and are well liked before. He hasn't benched any with this big an ego personally. In general the simplest solution is often best. And in this case that's as simple as it gets.

i would say the sample size of nba players with 'big egos' donovan has interacted with that deserved any kind of benching or minutes reduction is limited to 2 (carmelo anthony and dion waiters). and both of them got special treatment from their star teammates. and this happened with waiters before donovan even arrived.

donovan is not going to stick his neck out and undermine carmelo anthony if carmelo anthony has the support of paul george and russell westbrook. i think the list of coaches who would do that is short. that's a potential career changing move to make. it's obvious that george and westbrook both regard anthony highly and have made plenty of comments both in pre-game, post-game, standalone interviews, etc. that they consider anthony special. the thunder market the trio as 'ok3'. benching melo would subvert all of this and donovan is not going to it on his own.

there should be an organizational process for this but there isn't. from that first interview with melo everyone knew what the deal was.

[bondom34]

Because his ego is bigger personally. You're trying.to.find fault where there is none due to a personal dislike and or belief of something not there. Westbrook likes Melo. Westbrook likes Adams. Westbrook likes Gibson. Westbrook likes Roberson. 3 of them have at times been inexplicably removed and that's against what he would want. Maybe he's just not to.blame for a change? That would be the simplest and most logical solution to.anyone looking from an outside pov.

He has benched players who were and are well liked before. He hasn't benched any with this big an ego personally. In general the simplest solution is often best. And in this case that's as simple as it gets.

i would say the sample size of nba players with 'big egos' donovan has interacted with that deserved any kind of benching or minutes reduction is limited to 2 (carmelo anthony and dion waiters). and both of them got special treatment from their star teammates. and this happened with waiters before donovan even arrived.

donovan is not going to stick his neck out and undermine carmelo anthony if carmelo anthony has the support of paul george and russell westbrook. i think the list of coaches who would do that is short. that's a potential career changing move to make. it's obvious that george and westbrook both regard anthony highly and have made plenty of comments both in pre-game, post-game, standalone interviews, etc. that they consider anthony special. the thunder market the trio as 'ok3'. benching melo would subvert all of this and donovan is not going to it on his own.

there should be an organizational process for this but there isn't. from that first interview with melo everyone knew what the deal was.

See I agree with all this except the George and Westbrook part. Yes they respect him. Bit I don't think they care about hos minutes. They'd rather win.

Also that's part of a coach's job. McHale benched Harden. Brooks benched a (younger) Westbrook. It happens, its tough but its why he gets 5 mil a year.

[slick_watts]

Because his ego is bigger personally. You're trying.to.find fault where there is none due to a personal dislike and or belief of something not there. Westbrook likes Melo. Westbrook likes Adams. Westbrook likes Gibson. Westbrook likes Roberson. 3 of them have at times been inexplicably removed and that's against what he would want. Maybe he's just not to.blame for a change? That would be the simplest and most logical solution to.anyone looking from an outside pov.

He has benched players who were and are well liked before. He hasn't benched any with this big an ego personally. In general the simplest solution is often best. And in this case that's as simple as it gets.

i would say the sample size of nba players with 'big egos' donovan has interacted with that deserved any kind of benching or minutes reduction is limited to 2 (carmelo anthony and dion waiters). and both of them got special treatment from their star teammates. and this happened with waiters before donovan even arrived.

donovan is not going to stick his neck out and undermine carmelo anthony if carmelo anthony has the support of paul george and russell westbrook. i think the list of coaches who would do that is short. that's a potential career changing move to make. it's obvious that george and westbrook both regard anthony highly and have made plenty of comments both in pre-game, post-game, standalone interviews, etc. that they consider anthony special. the thunder market the trio as 'ok3'. benching melo would subvert all of this and donovan is not going to it on his own.

there should be an organizational process for this but there isn't. from that first interview with melo everyone knew what the deal was.

See I agree with all this except the George and Westbrook part. Yes they respect him. Bit I don't think they care about hos minutes. They'd rather win.

Also that's part of a coach's job. McHale benched Harden. Brooks benched a (younger) Westbrook. It happens, its tough but its why he gets 5 mil a year.

my opinion is that billy donovan is coach of the thunder specifically, in part, due to this difference between him and brooks.

and i guess we can disagree about westbrook and george.