2017-2018 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread Part Deux: Follow the Melo Brick Road

[bondom34]

i would say the sample size of nba players with 'big egos' donovan has interacted with that deserved any kind of benching or minutes reduction is limited to 2 (carmelo anthony and dion waiters). and both of them got special treatment from their star teammates. and this happened with waiters before donovan even arrived.

donovan is not going to stick his neck out and undermine carmelo anthony if carmelo anthony has the support of paul george and russell westbrook. i think the list of coaches who would do that is short. that's a potential career changing move to make. it's obvious that george and westbrook both regard anthony highly and have made plenty of comments both in pre-game, post-game, standalone interviews, etc. that they consider anthony special. the thunder market the trio as 'ok3'. benching melo would subvert all of this and donovan is not going to it on his own.

there should be an organizational process for this but there isn't. from that first interview with melo everyone knew what the deal was.

See I agree with all this except the George and Westbrook part. Yes they respect him. Bit I don't think they care about hos minutes. They'd rather win.

Also that's part of a coach's job. McHale benched Harden. Brooks benched a (younger) Westbrook. It happens, its tough but its why he gets 5 mil a year.

my opinion is that billy donovan is coach of the thunder specifically, in part, due to this difference between him and brooks.

and i guess we can disagree about westbrook and george.

I just think his old friend Presti gave him a sweet job.

And yeah disagree on Westbrook and PG. The simpler solution just makes too much sense.

[InTheSabonus]

Casey benching DeRozan to close out the game. But Donovan won't bench melo for even one defensive possession. Lol.

[Pillendreher]

Casey benching DeRozan to close out the game. But Donovan won't bench melo for even one defensive possession. Lol.

Melo makes shots.

[hardenASG13]

Casey benching DeRozan to close out the game. But Donovan won't bench melo for even one defensive possession. Lol.

So frustrating, they owe melo nothing too. It's his first year on the team, and everyone would be happy if he opts out. I can see why donovan came back with him at the 630 mark to see if he was going to close hot, but was in shock when he was still in after the timeout around the 3 min mark. Pulling him there would've been perfectly reasonable, and a non story.

[Pillendreher]

Casey benching DeRozan to close out the game. But Donovan won't bench melo for even one defensive possession. Lol.

So frustrating, they owe melo nothing too. It's his first year on the team, and everyone would be happy if he opts out. I can see why donovan came back with him at the 630 mark to see if he was going to close hot, but was in shock when he was still in after the timeout around the 3 min mark. Pulling him there would've been perfectly reasonable, and a non story.

You know something's up when his prodigal son Jerami Grant plays this well and still rides the bench to close out the game.

[slick_watts]

Pulling him there would've been perfectly reasonable, and a non story.

uhh.

[slick_watts]

Casey benching DeRozan to close out the game. But Donovan won't bench melo for even one defensive possession. Lol.

casey's been coaching in the nba for 25 years.

[hardenASG13]

Pulling him there would've been perfectly reasonable, and a non story.

uhh.

If melo sits for the last 3 minutes of a game, with grant playing great, who cares? Who's gonna talk about that (more than they are talking about him not getting benched)? All Donovan has to do there is compliment grant, and reiterate post game he remains confident in melo and that melo will still be starting, etc.

[slick_watts]

If melo sits for the last 3 minutes of a game, with grant playing great, who cares?

melo would.

[hardenASG13]

If melo sits for the last 3 minutes of a game, with grant playing great, who cares?

melo would.

Oh well....it happens. Get over it or sit and pout, ruining your rep, for everyone to see

[slick_watts]

If melo sits for the last 3 minutes of a game, with grant playing great, who cares?

melo would.

Oh well....it happens. Get over it or sit and pout, ruining your rep, for everyone to see

yeah i'm sure that's exactly how it would go. did you miss melo's first press conference here? or melo's clashing with head coaches every stop of his career? if donovan is afraid to act on melo it's for good reason. he has a career to think about.

[hardenASG13]

melo would.

Oh well....it happens. Get over it or sit and pout, ruining your rep, for everyone to see

yeah i'm sure that's exactly how it would go. did you miss melo's first press conference here? or melo's clashing with head coaches every stop of his career? if donovan is afraid to act on melo it's for good reason. he has a career to think about.

I saw the first press conference. Not saying he'd be pulled permanently. It's not closing 1 game, when a teammate was playing great. Common place throughout the league, he's not even an all star. Would've gone largely un noticed, and again Donovan couldve still stuck by melo postgame

[slick_watts]

I saw the first press conference. Not saying he'd be pulled permanently. It's not closing 1 game, when a teammate was playing great. Common place throughout the league, he's not even an all star. Would've gone largely un noticed, and again Donovan couldve still stuck by melo postgame

unnoticed? yeah right. i think you're completely off base here. billy doesn't hesitate to pull anyone and throw wacky lineups out there for whatever dumb reason. that habit stops at melo. is it because billy really thinks melo is still an elite player? think about this some more.

it's completely unrealistic for billy to bench melo in these situations. it's one of the reasons why i did not support hiring him, because he would have no clout as an nba coach. that article his first year when russell westbrook blew him off in the preseason we all knew what billy was. he can't just bench melo down the stretch of a division game like that. he'd be risking his nba coaching career.

this bandage should have been torn off in december or january when it was apparent melo was washed. and he should have been taken out of the starting lineup, it could have been discussed internally and received westbrook and george's blessing, whatever. but that didn't happen, the OK3 stuck together, and now it's probably too late to do anything without alienating melo. and they're not going to alienate melo imo.

by the way, this kind of 'blame the coach for everything' was annoying with scott brooks, also. i'm not a billy donovan fan. but some of these expectations for him are outrageous considering the circumstances.

[Pillendreher]

by the way, this kind of 'blame the coach for everything' was annoying with scott brooks, also. i'm not a billy donovan fan. but some of these expectations for him are outrageous considering the circumstances.

I must have missed it when lineup decisions were handed over to players.

[slick_watts]

by the way, this kind of 'blame the coach for everything' was annoying with scott brooks, also. i'm not a billy donovan fan. but some of these expectations for him are outrageous considering the circumstances.

I must have missed it when lineup decisions were handed over to players.

carmelo anthony literally said he was not coming off the bench during his preseason press conference. guess what has happened?

beyond billy donovan's strength as a coach and his lack of chutzpah and nba credibility, the thunder have put themselves in a conciliatory position vis a vis russell westbrook and paul george. they want to convince paul george to stay. russell westbrook and paul george are friends with carmelo anthony and openly speak about him with a reverence they do not use to describe other teammates.

if you don't think this is a factor on lineup decision making where carmelo anthony is concerned i dunno what to tell you. there's plenty to get upset with billy donovan about. this isn't one of those things. this is a blind attack.

[mccluskey]

i'm not a fan of donovan, but he's not a lionel hollins level simpleton. there are interviews with him in the past talking about pp100, offensive efficiency, effective field goal percentage, pace, all sorts of things. he's not a dumb coach.

There's nothing out there to support this notion. Citing some advanced stat does not make you a smart basketball coach. Otherwise, 90 % of RealGM could coach in the NBA.

coaching decisions are motivated by more than putting the best players on the court. managing personalities and a team of super competitive adults who are paid more than you is a difficult job that requires compromises. billy donovan has been around basketball all his life and there is plenty of evidence out there that supports a particular reverence for and understanding of basketball statistics and even analytics.

there are coaches like lionel hollins who actively deride statistics and openly mock anyone who uses analytics to make decisions. donovan has been the opposite of that until shortly after he arrived here. a lot of people were excited for him on dailythunder because of some of the statistics-oriented things he has said in interviews.

you are bemoaning him for making these sort of canned responses that every thunder employee from the top down has made for a decade. he's playing carmelo anthony to keep carmelo anthony happy.

this is one of the single best posts I've ever read on RealGM and the bolded is especially relevant.

[Pillendreher]

by the way, this kind of 'blame the coach for everything' was annoying with scott brooks, also. i'm not a billy donovan fan. but some of these expectations for him are outrageous considering the circumstances.

I must have missed it when lineup decisions were handed over to players.

carmelo anthony literally said he was not coming off the bench during his pregame press conference. guess what has happened?

He let Anthony walk all over him.

beyond billy donovan's strength as a coach and his lack of chutzpah and nba credibility, the thunder have put themselves in a conciliatory position vis a vis russell westbrook and paul george. they want to convince paul george to stay. russell westbrook and paul george are friends with carmelo anthony and openly speak about him with a reverence they do not use to describe other teammates.

Yes.

if you don't think this is a factor on lineup decision making where carmelo anthony is concerned i dunno what to tell you.

You're running in circles. NOBODY is arguing that Anthony as an individual doesn't matter here. Of course he matters. That's why this is happening.

there's plenty to get upset with billy donovan about. this isn't one of those things. this is a blind attack.

Nonsense. If you can't criticize a coach for making the wrong lineup decisions, you can't criticize him for anything. 'Melo being Melo' is a part of making said decision. If Donovan values that more than us winning a game, I'm not gonna sit by idly because Russ and George like Melo.

If there was ever a game to bench him down the stretch, it was this one. When Melo checked back in with 6:25 to go, they were a +10 with Grant in 18 minutes and -10 with Anthony in 23 minutes. Chances are, they win this one down the stretch if Grant stays in there, given that they had a 122 DRtG with Melo on the floor throughout the game.
If Donovan sticks with Grant and they win, the public story will not be 'Carmelo Anthony on the outs; gets benched down the stretch' but 'Thunder win extremely important game'. Then the Thunder media will ask Melo about Grant and he can take the high road and praise him for playing this well. He might pout behind closed doors, but what is he gonna do? Complain about a win?

You complain about Anthony not being treated like a role player. Well, guess who's responsible for stuff like that? The head coach. Melo's role won't change unless the team changes it. I agree that this should have started way back in Novemeber. But instead of transitioning Melo into that role, Donovan went away from it and never looked back. And so here we are.

[mccluskey]

melo would.

Oh well....it happens. Get over it or sit and pout, ruining your rep, for everyone to see

yeah i'm sure that's exactly how it would go. did you miss melo's first press conference here? or melo's clashing with head coaches every stop of his career? if donovan is afraid to act on melo it's for good reason. he has a career to think about.

not only that, though - even at this point in his career Melo still has a LOT of respect from his teammates and players around the league and from the media. He's never been known as a team-oriented player or a guy who values winning at the expense of his own numbers, recent history notwithstanding. (Actually, Donovan may or may not end up being a competent NBA coach, but it's a major testament to OKC's culture and approach that they've been able to get a well-known me-first superstar ego like Melo to adapt his game and accept a reduced role, even to the limited degree that he has so far this season, without some type of meltdown along the way).

pissing Carmelo Anthony off in the middle of one of the tightest playoff races in recent history sounds great to frustrated fans but in the organization's view it would be like dropping a live grenade in the locker room.

[mccluskey]

edit: double post

[mccluskey]

edit: triple post, I'm a moron