2017-2018 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread Part Deux: Follow the Melo Brick Road

[slick_watts]

He let Anthony walk all over him.

if sam presti wanted a coach that was going to stand up to the star players on his team he would have hired someone else.

You're running in circles. NOBODY is arguing that Anthony as an individual doesn't matter here. Of course he matters. That's why this is happening.

and managing that problem is above billy donovan's remit, or billy donovan would have done something by now. he's changed almost everything else on the team at one point or another, for good reasons and bad reasons.

Nonsense. If you can't criticize a coach for making the wrong lineup decisions, you can't criticize him for anything.

lol what.

I'm not gonna sit by idly because Russ and George like Melo.

the thunder are going to. you can bet on that. i guess there's a remote chance this unexpected local media interest would spur some changes but i doubt it.

If Donovan sticks with Grant and they win...

it's easy to put someone else's job and reputation on the line, isn't it?

You complain about Anthony not being treated like a role player. Well, guess who's responsible for stuff like that? The head coach.

yeah? i don't think so. even before carmelo anthony stepped foot onto okc soil, he was advertised as a super star and the three amigos were christened with their own brand name. the thunder allowed carmelo anthony to wear his hoodie in a preseason game. carmelo openly derided the idea of coming off the bench and the thunder (who could have stop punched it at the time) had nothing to say. paul george and russell westbrook talk about him like he's a mythical creature. the thunder organization has treated carmelo anthony as if he was a star from the moment the trade went through independent of billy donovan's decision making as a coach.

i do not like how the thunder have treated carmelo anthony, but i think that treatment has clearly gone beyond billy donovan's control.

[slick_watts]

pissing Carmelo Anthony off in the middle of one of the tightest playoff races in recent history sounds great to frustrated fans but in the organization's view it would be like dropping a live grenade in the locker room.

agreed.

[Pillendreher]

You're running in circles. NOBODY is arguing that Anthony as an individual doesn't matter here. Of course he matters. That's why this is happening.

and managing that problem is above billy donovan's remit, or billy donovan would have done something by now. he's changed almost everything else on the team at one point or another, for good reasons and bad reasons.

He did something. He started out the right way and then reversed himself not even 15 games into the season.

I'm not gonna sit by idly because Russ and George like Melo.

the thunder are going to. you can bet on that. i guess there's a remote chance this unexpected local media interest would spur some changes but i doubt it.

I'm not the Thunder. You might know this.

If Donovan sticks with Grant and they win...

it's easy to put someone else's job and reputation on the line, isn't it?

What 'reputation'? What do you think his reputation is now and what would it be if he benched Melo down the stretch vs Portland?

You complain about Anthony not being treated like a role player. Well, guess who's responsible for stuff like that? The head coach.

yeah? i don't think so. even before carmelo anthony stepped foot onto okc soil, he was advertised as a super star and the three amigos were christened with their own brand name. the thunder allowed carmelo anthony to wear his hoodie in a preseason game. carmelo openly derided the idea of coming off the bench and the thunder (who could have stop punched it at the time) had nothing to say. paul george and russell westbrook talk about him like he's a mythical creature. the thunder organization has treated carmelo anthony as if he was a star from the moment the trade went through independent of billy donovan's decision making as a coach.

i do not like how the thunder have treated carmelo anthony, but i think that treatment has clearly gone beyond billy donovan's control.

I agree with that. They're playing with fire. But when push comes to shove, he has to look out for the team winning games, not wether Melo pouts about not getting abused on the defensive end for another 6 minutes.

pissing Carmelo Anthony off in the middle of one of the tightest playoff races in recent history sounds great to frustrated fans but in the organization's view it would be like dropping a live grenade in the locker room.

And how long will that go on? What if we make it out of the 1st round and play Houston or the Warriors + Curry in the 2nd round? They'll abuse the **** out of Melo. Will they keep on playing him? Will the team be OK with losing because 'It's Melo'? This is why you put a stop to this laissez-faire nonsense before it begins. Catering to Melo's ego (or shall I say to whatever they consider Melo's ego) should not make or break this team.

[slick_watts]

I agree with that. They're playing with fire. But when push comes to shove, he has to look out for the team winning games, not wether Melo pouts about not getting abused on the defensive end for another 6 minutes.

this is an unreasonable expectation of billy donovan, in my opinion, given the circumstances. i'm not sure more than a handful of coaches in donovan's position would do what you want in this case.

And how long will that go on? What if we make it out of the 1st round and play Houston or the Warriors + Curry in the 2nd round? They'll abuse the **** out of Melo. Will they keep on playing him? Will the team be OK with losing because 'It's Melo'? This is why you put a stop to this laissez-faire nonsense before it begins. Catering to Melo's ego (or shall I say to whatever they consider Melo's ego) should not make or break this team.

this is an organizational problem. not a billy donovan problem. playing terrance ferguson over andre roberson was a billy donovan problem.

[Andre Roberstan]

I think there's a massive divide between how fans perceive Melo and how players perceive Melo.

The level of respect accorded to him by the other guys means that for it to not go over like a lead balloon, HE has to sign off on his own reduced role. This isn't San Antonio—and San Antonio was only San Antonio because of who Duncan was and how he moved in lockstep with Pop. We're seeing that now since his retirement.

Players have the power. That's not changing. The only way to work around that is with very deft interpersonal skills.

And saying "well he should be fine and accept it and it doesn't matter if he pouts behind closed doors" seems off to me. Have you ever been in a workplace environment with a dissatisfied coworker?

[bondom34]

I think there's a massive divide between how fans perceive Melo and how players perceive Melo.

The level of respect accorded to him by the other guys means that for it to not go over like a lead balloon, HE has to sign off on his own reduced role. This isn't San Antonio—and San Antonio was only San Antonio because of who Duncan was and how he moved in lockstep with Pop. We're seeing that now since his retirement.

Players have the power. That's not changing. The only way to work around that is with very deft interpersonal skills.

And saying "well he should be fine and accept it and it doesn't matter if he pouts behind closed doors" seems off to me. Have you ever been in a workplace environment with a dissatisfied coworker?

Most of them. And here I am.

Also there's a little e between: Worry about Melos ego and Westbrook is why Melo can't be benched.

[hardenASG13]

I think there's a massive divide between how fans perceive Melo and how players perceive Melo.

The level of respect accorded to him by the other guys means that for it to not go over like a lead balloon, HE has to sign off on his own reduced role. This isn't San Antonio—and San Antonio was only San Antonio because of who Duncan was and how he moved in lockstep with Pop. We're seeing that now since his retirement.

Players have the power. That's not changing. The only way to work around that is with very deft interpersonal skills.

And saying "well he should be fine and accept it and it doesn't matter if he pouts behind closed doors" seems off to me. Have you ever been in a workplace environment with a dissatisfied coworker?

Been on a lot of basketball teams. You do have to manage egos, no question. But when your on a good team, or a part of one, it's not a big deal for a starter to not close 1 game, especially when they are replaced by a hot hand for the benefit of the team. They are normally happy for their teammate and move on.

[slick_watts]

Been on a lot of basketball teams. You do have to manage egos, no question. But when your on a good team, or a part of one, it's not a big deal for a starter to not close 1 game, especially when they are replaced by a hot hand for the benefit of the team. They are normally happy for their teammate and move on.

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/carmelo-anthony-not-sure-why-he-was-benched-in-the-4th-quarter/

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/carmelo-anthony-gave-ultimatum-forced-mike-antoni-article-1.3150485

[hardenASG13]

Been on a lot of basketball teams. You do have to manage egos, no question. But when your on a good team, or a part of one, it's not a big deal for a starter to not close 1 game, especially when they are replaced by a hot hand for the benefit of the team. They are normally happy for their teammate and move on.

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/carmelo-anthony-not-sure-why-he-was-benched-in-the-4th-quarter/

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/carmelo-anthony-gave-ultimatum-forced-mike-antoni-article-1.3150485

Those are old articles, from when melo was the star of his team, bruh. Not talking about benching Westbrook down the stretch here. Melo is arguably the 4th best player on the team, clearly not one of their top 3.

[slick_watts]

Been on a lot of basketball teams. You do have to manage egos, no question. But when your on a good team, or a part of one, it's not a big deal for a starter to not close 1 game, especially when they are replaced by a hot hand for the benefit of the team. They are normally happy for their teammate and move on.

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/carmelo-anthony-not-sure-why-he-was-benched-in-the-4th-quarter/

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/carmelo-anthony-gave-ultimatum-forced-mike-antoni-article-1.3150485

Those are old articles, from when melo was the star of his team, bruh. Not talking about benching Westbrook down the stretch here. Melo is arguably the 4th best player on the team, clearly not one of their top 3.

you should tell the thunder that.

[hardenASG13]

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/carmelo-anthony-not-sure-why-he-was-benched-in-the-4th-quarter/

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/carmelo-anthony-gave-ultimatum-forced-mike-antoni-article-1.3150485

Those are old articles, from when melo was the star of his team, bruh. Not talking about benching Westbrook down the stretch here. Melo is arguably the 4th best player on the team, clearly not one of their top 3.

you should tell the thunder that.

They know he isn't their star, at least. He would've been fine, not closing 1 game. It's gonna happen alot the rest of his career. What does that say to grant by the way, if they have to worry so much about egos. Basically saying even if he's playing great, and gives them the best chance in a given game, he won't get to play down the stretch. Awesome

[getrichordie]

If melo sits for the last 3 minutes of a game, with grant playing great, who cares?

melo would.

Exactly. I’m not sure Donovan wants to completely kill Melo’s confidence. We will need that confidence more than ever come playoff time when teams start gearing their game plan towards stopping Westbrook, George, and Adams.


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[Pillendreher]

If melo sits for the last 3 minutes of a game, with grant playing great, who cares?

melo would.

Exactly. I’m not sure Donovan wants to completely kill Melo’s confidence. We will need that confidence more than ever come playoff time when teams start gearing their game plan towards stopping Westbrook, George, and Adams.


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I don't know if we can rely on that. He was in the 80th percentile in isolation plays both 15/16 and 16/17, but he's down to 65th this season. He was shooting 45 % on pull up 2s the last two seasons, but is down to 41 % this season. Down from 45 % from midrange over the last two seasons to 40 % this season.

At this point, I'd probably be more comfortable just giving the ball to Grant and hope he can make something happen. With his FG% and foul drawing, he's averaging 1.44 points per shot; Melo's at 1.08, which is by far the worst value of his career (career average before this season was 1.27).

[dakomish23]

Marco & Ersan are giving PHI 20 PPG on solid shooting since their pick up.

Felton
Marco
Grant
Patterson
Ersan

Would that 5 have worked out?

[hardenASG13]

If melo sits for the last 3 minutes of a game, with grant playing great, who cares?

melo would.

Exactly. I’m not sure Donovan wants to completely kill Melo’s confidence. We will need that confidence more than ever come playoff time when teams start gearing their game plan towards stopping Westbrook, George, and Adams.


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There is no way you'd kill his confidence. You'd build grants more, melo would be pissed, maybe enough so to get him to try off the ball on defense. That's not a bad thing. Hopefully melo comes on strong, but grant shoulda closed that last one.

[ThunderBolt]

Anyone hear anything about Clay Bennet being seriously ill? I heard something about him losing a bunch of weight and having a scar on his head from surgery. Not sure if it’s a rumor or factual.

[Pillendreher]

Anyone hear anything about Clay Bennet being seriously ill? I heard something about him losing a bunch of weight and having a scar on his head from surgery. Not sure if it’s a rumor or factual.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Thunder/comments/87dzn7/clay_bennett_at_ous_presidential_announcement/

[RalphSampsonJr]

Marco & Ersan are giving PHI 20 PPG on solid shooting since their pick up.

Felton
Marco
Grant
Patterson
Ersan

Would that 5 have worked out?

not defensively

[RalphSampsonJr]

melo would.

Exactly. I’m not sure Donovan wants to completely kill Melo’s confidence. We will need that confidence more than ever come playoff time when teams start gearing their game plan towards stopping Westbrook, George, and Adams.


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There is no way you'd kill his confidence. You'd build grants more, melo would be pissed, maybe enough so to get him to try off the ball on defense. That's not a bad thing. Hopefully melo comes on strong, but grant shoulda closed that last one.

If Melos is that insecure and players and coaches have to walk on egg shells so they dont upset him them Sam needs to get him out asap.

Its like theres all this proof that shows Melo has been terrible this year but Billy just wants to use the old “he use to be good” excuse.

Just seems like Billy doesnt have the balls to treat Melo like a role player. If i was Billy i would be actively trying to upset him so he doesnt opt in.

Billy is literally putting his job on the line by keeping Melos minutes up. I can only see two reasons for this:
1 Billys THAT dumb.
2 The org is scared of what Melo will do to the locker room so they need to keep him happy.

Neither is good. Neither will get us to the finals

[ThunderBolt]

Exactly. I’m not sure Donovan wants to completely kill Melo’s confidence. We will need that confidence more than ever come playoff time when teams start gearing their game plan towards stopping Westbrook, George, and Adams.


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There is no way you'd kill his confidence. You'd build grants more, melo would be pissed, maybe enough so to get him to try off the ball on defense. That's not a bad thing. Hopefully melo comes on strong, but grant shoulda closed that last one.

If Melos is that insecure and players and coaches have to walk on egg shells so they dont upset him them Sam needs to get him out asap.

Its like theres all this proof that shows Melo has been terrible this year but Billy just wants to use the old “he use to be good” excuse.

Just seems like Billy doesnt have the balls to treat Melo like a role player. If i was Billy i would be actively trying to upset him so he doesnt opt in.

Billy is literally putting his job on the line by keeping Melos minutes up. I can only see two reasons for this:
1 Billys THAT dumb.
2 The org is scared of what Melo will do to the locker room so they need to keep him happy.

Neither is good. Neither will get us to the finals

Even if he truly felt that way, they are are in final stretch of a playoff race. I wouldn’t expect him to do something that potentially volatile that would benefit the team next year when they are trying to win this year.