nate33 wrote:montestewart wrote:I'm really enjoying the delightful doublespeak of "perjury trap," a technical term which has widely entered popular parlance specifically to explain away as nothing Trump minions lying under oath. Kind of reminds me of "gotcha question," "Deep State," and all these other hazily defined terms that people throw out with authority like they've been using them since a civics presentation in 4th grade.
testimony under oath = perjury trap
question = Gotcha question
law = tyranny
Mexicans, Arabs, Africans = the Mongol Horde
government = deep state
government employees = deep state operatives
fired Trump appointees = deep state operatives
Trump appointees he doesn't like = deep state operatives
women who accuse Trump of sexual assault = deep state operatives
no doubt Jesus = deep state operative
Lincoln too = deep state operative
Dr. Seuss for sure = deep state operative
truth = bullet points on a blog I agree with
MSM = media I don't agree with
style = gold paint
etc.= etc.
What else do you call a scenario when two FBI agents ambush Flynn without warning and without a lawyer present in an exploration of him potentially violating the Logan Act - an act that nobody has been successfully prosecuted for in 200 years, and Flynn allegedly broke this law while on the transition team. THERE WAS NO LEGAL JUSTIFICATION FOR THE INTERVIEW TO TAKE PLACE IN THE FIRST PLACE!
They grill Flynn about his recollection about a phone conversation he had months ago, and then when his recollection doesn't jibe perfectly with the recordings, the agents conclude that he DIDN'T intentionally lie. Then McCabe gets a whole of the agents' notes of the conversation and changes them to conclude that Flynn did lie. Then Mueller subjects Flynn to hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees forcing Flynn to eventually capitulate and plead to lying to an FBI agent.
Please try and be impartial about this. How would you feel if the FBI did this to Obama's National Security Director while he was on the transition team after winning the election in 2008?
while i agree with everything Nate says here, i want to take a second to educate you guys(cuz i consider you jackasses friends however naive some of you are or pretend to be just to make your silly points) about law enforcement and the FBI in general.
1. FBI agents may not be geniuses. But they tend to be really smart. and they are trained well in the art of entrapment. and they dont play by the "rules."
Here's what I mean.
--starting about 30 years ago the FBI was overwhelmed with applicants. So they could picks from the cream of the crop.
--so most FBI agents (believe it or not) are IVY league or come from high end schools...so even if they dont qualify as outright "geniuses" per se, they got some serious processing power in that they can crush data naturally and accurately and quickly or they are willing to take themselves through the mental hurdles to get to the same place the geniuses arrive however much longer it takes.
--geniuses have implemented their tactics and policies. And by geniuses, i mean really smart people that can look at pools of data and game plan to catch/trap/entrap "criminals."
--due to selection processes, nearly all FBI agents have masters degrees. often in accounting (to follow the money and find technical illegalities--which they then use for further entrapment procedures. Or they have masters in computer science engineering.
--even though these kids are smart. like really smart. they tend to also often be prior military or local police officers first. So they are comfortable in the trenches. FBI also loves to select athletes. (willing team players that know how to kick some ass).
--given all of the above, they tend to be attractive and cunning men and women. They are engaging. often brilliant. and they are used to "winning" which makes them very confident.
--and they often win. 30 years ago the FBI had a conversion rate of 99% from the time you become a "target" of the FBI to conviction. those numbers are now a meager 97%. (They tend to "get their guy.")
--and they have some powerful tools. Judges that will sign just about any search and seizure warrant. and It generally cost a minimum of $25,000 retainer to "lawyer up" for federal court. It often costs $50-100K for these retainer fees and federal lawyers charge triple the hourly rate as non federal lawyers--up to $900 per hour.)--which is one of the greatest strengths of FBI and the DA trying federal cases. Most defendants simply can NOT afford to defend themselves so the "plea out" or turn states.
--like sith, in pairs they always arrive. never one. seldom more than 2. just enough to corrorborate their bullshxt narrative they spin up and not too much so as to intimidate...unless you are big time. then the whole crew shows up at 4 am. but before that, they always "try" things the easy way and hope you are stupid enough to think you are smarter than the FBI.
I bring all this up to help some of you understand why Mccabe started a go fund me and to help you understand why Flynn plead out.
****This next part is huge. kind of tying it all together*****Imagine if you can, what i just described. Picture some High school star athlete that was NOT dumb. the best athlete on the field who happened to be the smartest in his class as well. And often very good looking. and to get through an ivy league school or equivalent, he had to be persistent and goal oriented. This kid goes off to school. then does a tour in Iraq. Or works in silicon valley as a coder and is bored with the lack of action.
He or she joins the FBI. Then Goes off to Quantico to study with the best of the best of the best for 5 months. Where they indoctrinate brainwash you on the same things that the military does: chain of command. duty to country. longterm career committment. How to advance/make your career/become head of FBI like comey and be on TV psuedo celebrity etc...and this part should interest you because the FBI does personality tests (like the military) to identify their most willing candidates (pleasers)...so you got a bunch of geniueses that are pre-wired to please their boss and go catch "bad guys."
That is what you are dealing with when 2 FBI agents come knocking on your door.
And behind them, they are armed with tried and true tactics in crime busting. decades of data points that tells them how to interview/question suspects.
and the reason the term "perjury trap" keeps being brought up is because after they have already search and seized all of your tax and banking records, property records, and already have the timelines to potentially put you at a prospective place or scene. They then simply need you to talk. Thats all they need. because even if you are a **** genius and 100 times smarter and more diligent than these bastids, more cunning, more handsome, more confident and straight-up effing innocent of any crime they are attempting to put on you....even then...it doesn't matter. they will trip up one of your more desperate/broke/stupid/ or more naive associates(friends) and "flip them" before they even get to you. Force your naive "friend" to make a liar out of you even if you are 100% telling the truth.
that's straight up how they roll. and lying to the FBI carries a maximum sentence of 5 years...and those who do not cooperate get 1-13 months.
So what i'm trying to say is NEVER EVER EVER EVER get cute with the FBI. Ever. they will nail your ass. And by "cute" I do indeed mean talk. I recommend that you dont even stipulate to your fricking name. call your lawyer. And never trust a federal lawyer. federal lawyers all have lunch and golf with federal prosecutors and judges often. Which is a good thing so long as the federal attorney you hire believes YOU and believes in the defense he lays out.
For example. martha stewart. Who by all accounts is a genius as was her husband at the time. and She was also a billionaire and therefor powerful. She thought she could simply "make the FBI understand." Which is a trap all smart people often fall for. But the thing she did NOT understand is that the FBI does not care about the truth. They have agents who are really smart and determined to "make a case" and therefore make their career. And these agents will comb through your stuff and find crimes once you become a target. Not unlike what we are seeing with everyone around Trump.
I have said this before and I will say it again. These kids are smart and pre-wired to please their boss. They actually think they are doing good for the country when they lock someone like Martha Stewart up for 13 months for lying to them. And thats what they convicted her of. lying.
And they justify all of this in their own little crime syndicate they call the federal bureau of investigations. Martha effing stewart of all people. Who may have done some insider trading but its perfectly legal when company insiders buy and sell stock so long as they disclose it on form 4. Stewart sold because she heard from her broker that the CEO was selling but they didn't know why. the case was extremely weak against her for insider trading. But like and idiot. she lied to the FBI while explaining why she sold. If she simply had exercised her right to remain silent, she would have walked. Instead she talked.
Never ever ever talk to the FBI. Especially if you are innocent. Innocent people tend to be more naive than guilty folks. 97% conviction rate once you become a target. And thats why Hillary Rodham Clinton got up on the stand and said "i do not recall" 119 times in a row when questioned about Benghazi.
In regard to HRC, she has likely broken over 10 federal laws that i know of and some of them are major. But she KNOWS the law and is as powerfully connected as you can get. WJC appointed Lynch as NYAG decades ago
and they are the type of politicians that wouldn't nominate people to high appointments without having "dirt" on them first. Something the naive Trump administration doesn't seem to have a grasp of. . he should have never appointed Sessions without some dirt on him and a douchebag like session is likely to have mostly if not entirely "played by the rules."
Lynch and Holder gave HRC and Obama all the cover they needed to work slightly if not entirely outside of the law and outside of the countries best interest. and did so in broad day light. Right now trump can't fart on his own bedsheets or the FBI and Mueller might charge him with destruction of government property and conduct unbecoming and officer of the united states of america. And they'll do it in broad day light and get away with it.
It's all about knowing the law. and knowing when and where you have leverage. If you cant guess, truth doesn't matter. they are very capable of defining your truth for you by going after everyone around and forcing them to talk. even if they make it up and lie. it doesn't matter.
and all of this is just the legal angle. Politically they, are forcing Trump's hand and damaging his political capital both with voters and republicans that might otherwise have his back by allowing the media a negative narrative to run with for what is now almost 24 straight months.
I know you libtards love it. But this is not how you are suppose to win elections. and this very environment makes it extremely difficult for our elected officials to stand up to the elite ruling class and make legislation that favors the working class because the ruling class owns the media and therefore owns the narrative. The goal is to weaken any strong advocate of the "people." and you libtards have taken the entire bait. hook, line, and sinker. and swimming with it. when all you';ve done is weaken your own bargaining power. and you have made it less and less appealing for the next "maverick" outside the box non-politician to ever want to run for president ever again. And thats the goal here folks. Keep non politicians out of office so the ruling class can continue on making policy that allows them to continue to hoard all of the wealth.
And that's the kind of pressure already on Trump. Plus he has an independent counselor on him. plus the senate. plus the house. plus the CIA while Obama was still in office.
At some point. You guys have to ask yourselves...why do "they"(likely "powers" much higher than the FBI) want this guy gone so bad?????? Seriously...what has he done so bad??? called some mexican human traffickers rapists? Cuz they really are rapists btw. 80% of these women claim being raped. I mean a significant portion of my family is mexican and we happen to know first hand about this stuff. its ugly. and it happens. we came here legally. paid our dues. so should everyone else. So why are all the white and black folks all up in arms over this crap??? I mean i understand why the newly arrived illegal immigrant is upset...and to them I say fxck you!! get in fxckin line muthaphuxckah!!!!
but seriously...why is everyone so upset over trump? This man has the potential to right many wrongs and advance the working class of the country further along than any other president since Nixon...and they wanted him gone too!!! because he covered up the RNC spying on the DNC because of the political hit he didn't want his party to suffer??? really??? impeach a president for that??? But its ok for Obama to sell russia 20% of our uranium reserves so russia can make nuclear bombs????
I mean wtf is going on with the electorate?? Why are people so stupid????? Why would working class people ever trust anything in the media which is owned by the ruling class????? like ever????
look, I believe in "law and order." but not because its just. There is nothing just about it. But it is a necessary evil to fend off a worse evil. anarchy. and truth be told a guy like me is actually somewhat OK with anarchy. cuz i'm a bad muthaphuckah. but you cats aint ready for that. so we need law and order to keep the the peace. and we need "production and consumption to keep everyone else off the streets at night.
But we can do better than all of this. Much better. and it requires change. I said this 12 months ago and I will say it again. I think of Donald trump as nothing more than an agent for change. Some change is better than no change. we need to change the way we think and act about or politicians. about our justice system. about our media. about the indoctrination of all americans into the massive industrial complex of production and consumption. we need to get back to human beings helping each feed and shelter each other. instead of competing for those recourses to feed and shelter ourselves. we are overpopulating the planet and making a mess out of it in the process and no one will talk about because the ruling class owns the media and benefits the most from production and consumption.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
in between the lines.