Official MMA discussion thread: UFC 231 Holloway vs Ortega finally!

[Clyde_Style]

Holy Crap!

What a war

I'm glad Poirier won because his striking was so accurate and I don't really like to see guys win because their chin outlasts your fist.

Great fight, almost too brutal

I'd like to see Gaechje drop down to 145. The size difference between him and Porier was pretty noticeable last night as was his fight with E.Alvarez and the way he fights with taking so much damage will also help him at 145.

It is too late for him. He already had very pronounced slurred speech on TUF. He'll be lucky to live to 50 with any faculties intact.

[newyorker4ever]

I implore yall to watch Gaethje's title run at WSOF, every fight was similar to that Poirier one. He comes forward, makes guys work nonstop and eats them whenever they aren't active. I'm happy Diamond didn't break here, those leg kicks were insane and I was worried when he instantly asked to ice the leg between the third and fourth. Dude did a great job.

Condit's grappling once again came back to bite him. Taken down, ate the kick when he reversed the positions and then took a bad shot into a guillotine.

Adesanya got a real test. Vettori showed the grappling hole that everyone figured would be there. Stylebender's take down defense is solid, but his ground game is questionable though I like that he constantly looks for an opening to get up (Conor-like). He's got work to do in a division where the top guys are all high level grapplers (seriously it's Whitaker, Rockhold, Romero, Gastelum, Weidman).

Waterson vs Casey was great in it's own right. If you needed any more illustration that Karate Hottie belongs in the 105 lbs. division that the UFC doesn't have, that was the one to watch. She was the faster and sharper striker but Casey wasn't deterred at all even by head kicks. The takedowns saved Waterson, champion mentality there. She found ways to eke out tough rounds...it just sucks she's not big enough for the elite in the division imo.

Not sure what you mean by Condit's grappling once again coming back to bite him cause he's one of the better fighters off his back and is always dangerous and he got caught by a standing guillotine.

[newyorker4ever]

Holy Crap!

What a war

I'm glad Poirier won because his striking was so accurate and I don't really like to see guys win because their chin outlasts your fist.

Great fight, almost too brutal

I'd like to see Gaechje drop down to 145. The size difference between him and Porier was pretty noticeable last night as was his fight with E.Alvarez and the way he fights with taking so much damage will also help him at 145.

It is too late for him. He already had very pronounced slurred speech on TUF. He'll be lucky to live to 50 with any faculties intact.

Come on now, you can't sit here and say his slurred speech is from getting hit when he's always spoken that way since his World series of fighting days. He has plenty of fighting left in him. Does he need to learn how to stop taking so many punches? Of course he does but i say that cause if he's gonna fight the upper class of fighters in the UFC then he can't take so much damage from these guys if he wants to last 5 rounds.

[Clyde_Style]

I'd like to see Gaechje drop down to 145. The size difference between him and Porier was pretty noticeable last night as was his fight with E.Alvarez and the way he fights with taking so much damage will also help him at 145.

It is too late for him. He already had very pronounced slurred speech on TUF. He'll be lucky to live to 50 with any faculties intact.

Come on now, you can't sit here and say his slurred speech is from getting hit when he's always spoken that way since his World series of fighting days. He has plenty of fighting left in him. Does he need to learn how to stop taking so many punches? Of course he does but i say that cause if he's gonna fight the upper class of fighters in the UFC then he can't take so much damage from these guys if he wants to last 5 rounds.

I'm sure he has plenty of fighting left in him and that he'll keep fighting and ten years after he's done he'll be a vacant shell. Nobody takes the kind of punishment he does without significant long-term brain damage.

[newyorker4ever]

It is too late for him. He already had very pronounced slurred speech on TUF. He'll be lucky to live to 50 with any faculties intact.

Come on now, you can't sit here and say his slurred speech is from getting hit when he's always spoken that way since his World series of fighting days. He has plenty of fighting left in him. Does he need to learn how to stop taking so many punches? Of course he does but i say that cause if he's gonna fight the upper class of fighters in the UFC then he can't take so much damage from these guys if he wants to last 5 rounds.

I'm sure he has plenty of fighting left in him and that he'll keep fighting and ten years after he's done he'll be a vacant shell. Nobody takes the kind of punishment he does without significant long-term brain damage.

There's boxers and mma fighters that have fought for many years and have had many fights that are just fine these days. It's how that person is made. Some can take many years of getting hit in the head and be just fine, or at least not show any major brain damage but some can't take it and have shown to have brain damage. You can't just guess which guys will end up with serious brain damage....lol

[j4remi]

I implore yall to watch Gaethje's title run at WSOF, every fight was similar to that Poirier one. He comes forward, makes guys work nonstop and eats them whenever they aren't active. I'm happy Diamond didn't break here, those leg kicks were insane and I was worried when he instantly asked to ice the leg between the third and fourth. Dude did a great job.

Condit's grappling once again came back to bite him. Taken down, ate the kick when he reversed the positions and then took a bad shot into a guillotine.

Adesanya got a real test. Vettori showed the grappling hole that everyone figured would be there. Stylebender's take down defense is solid, but his ground game is questionable though I like that he constantly looks for an opening to get up (Conor-like). He's got work to do in a division where the top guys are all high level grapplers (seriously it's Whitaker, Rockhold, Romero, Gastelum, Weidman).

Waterson vs Casey was great in it's own right. If you needed any more illustration that Karate Hottie belongs in the 105 lbs. division that the UFC doesn't have, that was the one to watch. She was the faster and sharper striker but Casey wasn't deterred at all even by head kicks. The takedowns saved Waterson, champion mentality there. She found ways to eke out tough rounds...it just sucks she's not big enough for the elite in the division imo.

Not sure what you mean by Condit's grappling once again coming back to bite him cause he's one of the better fighters off his back
and is always dangerous and he got caught by a standing guillotine.

I mean that he's lost three straight fights getting outgrappled. Submitted twice and then lost a decision where he was controlled by Neil Magny. He's aggressive off his back which is nice but his takedown defense is HORRID and his submission defense is suspect. He's now been stopped 6 times, once due to injury and 5 times to submission. Until he can stuff takedowns consistently or stand up more quickly when he's taken down, the aggression off his back won't save him from decision losses at the minimum.

[newyorker4ever]

I implore yall to watch Gaethje's title run at WSOF, every fight was similar to that Poirier one. He comes forward, makes guys work nonstop and eats them whenever they aren't active. I'm happy Diamond didn't break here, those leg kicks were insane and I was worried when he instantly asked to ice the leg between the third and fourth. Dude did a great job.

Condit's grappling once again came back to bite him. Taken down, ate the kick when he reversed the positions and then took a bad shot into a guillotine.

Adesanya got a real test. Vettori showed the grappling hole that everyone figured would be there. Stylebender's take down defense is solid, but his ground game is questionable though I like that he constantly looks for an opening to get up (Conor-like). He's got work to do in a division where the top guys are all high level grapplers (seriously it's Whitaker, Rockhold, Romero, Gastelum, Weidman).

Waterson vs Casey was great in it's own right. If you needed any more illustration that Karate Hottie belongs in the 105 lbs. division that the UFC doesn't have, that was the one to watch. She was the faster and sharper striker but Casey wasn't deterred at all even by head kicks. The takedowns saved Waterson, champion mentality there. She found ways to eke out tough rounds...it just sucks she's not big enough for the elite in the division imo.

Not sure what you mean by Condit's grappling once again coming back to bite him cause he's one of the better fighters off his back
and is always dangerous and he got caught by a standing guillotine.

I mean that he's lost three straight fights getting outgrappled. Submitted twice and then lost a decision where he was controlled by Neil Magny. He's aggressive off his back which is nice but his takedown defense is HORRID and his submission defense is suspect. He's now been stopped 6 times, once due to injury and 5 times to submission. Until he can stuff takedowns consistently or stand up more quickly when he's taken down, the aggression off his back won't save him from decision losses at the minimum.

So 5 submission losses in 40+ fights.......doesn't seem so bad...lol. One of his last 3 losses in his last 3 fights that you mention by submission was by Damian "F*****G" Maia which i would think you would know is one of, if not the best BBJ guys in all of MMA and last nights loss was from a standing Guillotine. A lot of times he doesn't fight the takedown because he likes fighting off his back.

[j4remi]

So 5 submission losses in 40+ fights.......doesn't seem so bad...lol. One of his last 3 losses in his last 3 fights that you mention by submission was by Damian "F*****G" Maia which i would think you would know is one of, if not the best BBJ guys in all of MMA and last nights loss was from a standing Guillotine. A lot of times he doesn't fight the takedown because he likes fighting off his back.

5 submission losses out of 12 total losses and factor in decisions where takedowns and ground control made the difference (Magny, Hendricks, GSP, Jake Shields, arguably Martin Kampmann) and that's 10 of 12 losses coming because he gets outgrappled. I could count on one hand the number of fighters that I'd be comfortable with standing for 5 rounds against Condit, but I'm a lot more comfortable in guys beating him with takedowns. Wrestling = Grappling, shooting into a deep guillotine is poor grappling, being taken down more times than he's defended takedown attempts is godawful no matter how comfortable he is losing rounds off his back. This isn't complicated at all. Until the gameplan to beat Condit goes from "take him down" to "stay on the feet" the most likely reason for him to lost fights will be holes in his grappling.

[newyorker4ever]

So 5 submission losses in 40+ fights.......doesn't seem so bad...lol. One of his last 3 losses in his last 3 fights that you mention by submission was by Damian "F*****G" Maia which i would think you would know is one of, if not the best BBJ guys in all of MMA and last nights loss was from a standing Guillotine. A lot of times he doesn't fight the takedown because he likes fighting off his back.

5 submission losses out of 12 total losses and factor in decisions where takedowns and ground control made the difference (Magny, Hendricks, GSP, Jake Shields, arguably Martin Kampmann) and that's 10 of 12 losses coming because he gets outgrappled. I could count on one hand the number of fighters that I'd be comfortable with standing for 5 rounds against Condit, but I'm a lot more comfortable in guys beating him with takedowns. Wrestling = Grappling, shooting into a deep guillotine is poor grappling, being taken down more times than he's defended takedown attempts is godawful no matter how comfortable he is losing rounds off his back. This isn't complicated at all. Until the gameplan to beat Condit goes from "take him down" to "stay on the feet" the most likely reason for him to lost fights will be holes in his grappling.

I'm not the type that has time to go back and forth all day about something this silly but if you wanna think C.Condit's ground game is bad then you go ahead and do that....lol

[j4remi]

So 5 submission losses in 40+ fights.......doesn't seem so bad...lol. One of his last 3 losses in his last 3 fights that you mention by submission was by Damian "F*****G" Maia which i would think you would know is one of, if not the best BBJ guys in all of MMA and last nights loss was from a standing Guillotine. A lot of times he doesn't fight the takedown because he likes fighting off his back.

5 submission losses out of 12 total losses and factor in decisions where takedowns and ground control made the difference (Magny, Hendricks, GSP, Jake Shields, arguably Martin Kampmann) and that's 10 of 12 losses coming because he gets outgrappled. I could count on one hand the number of fighters that I'd be comfortable with standing for 5 rounds against Condit, but I'm a lot more comfortable in guys beating him with takedowns. Wrestling = Grappling, shooting into a deep guillotine is poor grappling, being taken down more times than he's defended takedown attempts is godawful no matter how comfortable he is losing rounds off his back. This isn't complicated at all. Until the gameplan to beat Condit goes from "take him down" to "stay on the feet" the most likely reason for him to lost fights will be holes in his grappling.

I'm not the type that has time to go back and forth all day about something this silly but if you wanna think C.Condit's ground game is bad then you go ahead and do that....lol

yeah, it’s silly to say his grappling costs him fights when 10 of his 12 losses literally came down to takedowns, ground control or getting submitted...You’ve got a point.



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[j4remi]

I'll say it again. Glad Poirier won. Hate seeing someone become champ because they can sustain brain damage in their twenties. That really should be the end of the road for Gaethje, because he's going to be a vegetable if he keeps fighting.

I was very impressed by Waterson. How a tiny girl like that beat someone so much bigger is a real testament to her will and strategy. That was an impressive feat. If there was a lighter division for her, she probably would start knocking them out, but are there even enough women at that weight to fill the card in a lighter weight class?

Gaethje has said he doesn't expect to fight a much longer career (I saw others mention that he only wants 5 more fights but I don't know where that quote is from). His style is wildly entertaining but you aren't liable to win a belt without any headmovement and an unwillingness to clinch or shoot when you're hurt. The dude caught a cannonball on the jaw and waved Poirier in while he was falling over...scary. I would love to see him just employ more of his wrestling to throw opponents off balance, Dustin did that. He changed levels and it didn't look very effective but it can buy you a second to breath and the level change forces an opponent to add caution against takedowns. Gaethje has the size, striking and chin to be a champion but he's gotta make some changes,

Read on Twitter

There will come a time when people will look at Gaethje's fights and react the way newer fans do to Don Frye vs Takayama the first time they get to watch that slice of bad old days madness.

[bringbackhoffa]

I really hope barboza shuts up Kevin lee this upcoming wkend, just can't stand the dude thinking he deserves a title shot after every time he fights. Also it seems as though he never has anything nice to say about other fights in his division.

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[j4remi]

I really hope barboza shuts up Kevin lee this upcoming wkend, just can't stand the dude thinking he deserves a title shot after every time he fights. Also it seems as though he never has anything nice to say about other fights in his division.

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I'm EXTREMELY curious about this fight. I've got Lee's wrestling second to only Khabib in the division (combination of pedigree and his massive size). Barboza made Khabib fight for three rounds but showed some bad defensive habits (mostly in his footwork, he would go straight backward and hit the cage where Khabib would eat him alive). Lee is probably looking at that as a blueprint while Barboza should be able to make adjustments for a grappler like Khabib and have it payoff against a guy like Lee. I'm in this purely to see how Barboza has adjusted and how Lee deals with Barboza's speed and striking. Oh yeah, Barboza needs to use his hands and not overrely on kicks when he gets crowded too. Lee's the type to catch a kick and drive a man to the mat.

[NYKHardKnock]

I wonder if Conor will fight anytime soon

[HarthorneWingo]

I wonder if Conor will fight anytime soon

Fook him!

After he gets out of jail.

[newyorker4ever]

I wonder if Conor will fight anytime soon

Fook him!

After he gets out of jail.

He might get fooked in jail

[HarthorneWingo]

I wonder if Conor will fight anytime soon

Fook him!

After he gets out of jail.

He might get fooked in jail

Conor will rip off their dicks with his ass muscles.

[bringbackhoffa]

I really hope barboza shuts up Kevin lee this upcoming wkend, just can't stand the dude thinking he deserves a title shot after every time he fights. Also it seems as though he never has anything nice to say about other fights in his division.

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I'm EXTREMELY curious about this fight. I've got Lee's wrestling second to only Khabib in the division (combination of pedigree and his massive size). Barboza made Khabib fight for three rounds but showed some bad defensive habits (mostly in his footwork, he would go straight backward and hit the cage where Khabib would eat him alive). Lee is probably looking at that as a blueprint while Barboza should be able to make adjustments for a grappler like Khabib and have it payoff against a guy like Lee. I'm in this purely to see how Barboza has adjusted and how Lee deals with Barboza's speed and striking. Oh yeah, Barboza needs to use his hands and not overrely on kicks when he gets crowded too. Lee's the type to catch a kick and drive a man to the mat.

If you watch the anatomy of a fighter videos on you (i would suggest everyone to watch), you can hear in the below video Khabib telling Barboza to please smash this guy (Lee), lol (1:08 mark)

Watch on YouTube

[Duke4life831]

I'll say it again. Glad Poirier won. Hate seeing someone become champ because they can sustain brain damage in their twenties. That really should be the end of the road for Gaethje, because he's going to be a vegetable if he keeps fighting.

I was very impressed by Waterson. How a tiny girl like that beat someone so much bigger is a real testament to her will and strategy. That was an impressive feat. If there was a lighter division for her, she probably would start knocking them out, but are there even enough women at that weight to fill the card in a lighter weight class?

Gaethje has said he doesn't expect to fight a much longer career (I saw others mention that he only wants 5 more fights but I don't know where that quote is from). His style is wildly entertaining but you aren't liable to win a belt without any headmovement and an unwillingness to clinch or shoot when you're hurt. The dude caught a cannonball on the jaw and waved Poirier in while he was falling over...scary. I would love to see him just employ more of his wrestling to throw opponents off balance, Dustin did that. He changed levels and it didn't look very effective but it can buy you a second to breath and the level change forces an opponent to add caution against takedowns. Gaethje has the size, striking and chin to be a champion but he's gotta make some changes,

Read on Twitter

There will come a time when people will look at Gaethje's fights and react the way newer fans do to Don Frye vs Takayama the first time they get to watch that slice of bad old days madness.

Gaethje has made it known for the last couple of fights that he was counting down the amount of fights he has left. After Dustin's fight he said he is now down to 5 fights left. MMA World video today has the clip of him saying that.

He is a very entertaining fighter, by the end of it I wouldn't be shocked if all of his fights in the UFC could be considered top 25 all time type fights. He reminds me of a more skilled Chris Leben. Just a zombie walking forward willing to take a ton of damage with the hope of just catching the guy. Gaethje is more skilled but seems to have the same attitude. It's not the smartest fighting technique and I really hate to think how he might be in 20 years. But damn I know for a fact that every time he has a fight I'm going to watch it and know it's going to be a blast.

[HarthorneWingo]

Wouldn't it be easier if Justin would evolve as a fighter? Does he have a strongly held religious belief against head movement?