Trade Thread 2: Make your offers here

[DuckIII]

Anyone willing to take Jo back from Knicks to move-up?

Jo + Knicks 1st for Shrek, Valentine or Holiday and Pels 1st.

Obviously yes. But why would the Knicks move down from 9 to 22 just to shed salary? They are insanely rich. And if its for cap space, that's an enormous draft sacrifice to make a run at the market. 'They'd basically have to have a back door promise from someone that they couldn't otherwise sign outright without the trade.

[johnnyvann840]

Anyone willing to take Jo back from Knicks to move-up?

Jo + Knicks 1st for Shrek, Valentine or Holiday and Pels 1st.

Obviously yes. But why would the Knicks move down from 9 to 22 just to shed salary? They are insanely rich. And if its for cap space, that's an enormous draft sacrifice to make a run at the market. 'They'd basically have to have a back door promise from someone that they couldn't otherwise sign outright without the trade.

Yeah, the Knicks aren't giving up their pick in this draft just to shed Noah. They've already just said they are looking at a 3-5 year rebuild anyway. They not looking to sign any FA's at this point. I think they realize years of that hasn't worked for them and are committed to a long term rebuild this time.

[sco]

Anyone willing to take Jo back from Knicks to move-up?

Jo + Knicks 1st for Shrek, Valentine or Holiday and Pels 1st.

Obviously yes. But why would the Knicks move down from 9 to 22 just to shed salary? They are insanely rich. And if its for cap space, that's an enormous draft sacrifice to make a run at the market. 'They'd basically have to have a back door promise from someone that they couldn't otherwise sign outright without the trade.

Their motivation is that KP is disgruntled on not being on a playoff team and a draft pick won't help their near-term prospects.

Speaking of trades...Kawhi not?

[sco]

If Mil loses in 1st round, I wonder if they'd do a deal for either/both Portis/RoLo?

Obviously, their pick is of interest to me. I'd also consider Brogdon.

[Peelboy]

Anyone willing to take Jo back from Knicks to move-up?

Jo + Knicks 1st for Shrek, Valentine or Holiday and Pels 1st.

Obviously yes. But why would the Knicks move down from 9 to 22 just to shed salary? They are insanely rich. And if its for cap space, that's an enormous draft sacrifice to make a run at the market. 'They'd basically have to have a back door promise from someone that they couldn't otherwise sign outright without the trade.

Their motivation is that KP is disgruntled on not being on a playoff team and a draft pick won't help their near-term prospects.

Speaking of trades...Kawhi not?

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/249574/Steve-Mills-James-Dolan-Wants-Us-To-Be-Patient-With-Knicks-Rebuild

Seems like NYK won't be trading their pick. However.....that might tee up an alternative. 6+22+Portis+filler for Porzingis. NYK kick starts their rebuild with 2 top 10, a good young big, and 22. I'd even throw in something else. Bulls take on Porzingis along with injury risk. By midseason, you roll out a lineup of Dunn-LaVine-Nwaba-Laura-Kristaps.

[sco]

Obviously yes. But why would the Knicks move down from 9 to 22 just to shed salary? They are insanely rich. And if its for cap space, that's an enormous draft sacrifice to make a run at the market. 'They'd basically have to have a back door promise from someone that they couldn't otherwise sign outright without the trade.

Their motivation is that KP is disgruntled on not being on a playoff team and a draft pick won't help their near-term prospects.

Speaking of trades...Kawhi not?

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/249574/Steve-Mills-James-Dolan-Wants-Us-To-Be-Patient-With-Knicks-Rebuild

Seems like NYK won't be trading their pick. However.....that might tee up an alternative. 6+22+Portis+filler for Porzingis. NYK kick starts their rebuild with 2 top 10, a good young big, and 22. I'd even throw in something else. Bulls take on Porzingis along with injury risk. By midseason, you roll out a lineup of Dunn-LaVine-Nwaba-Laura-Kristaps.

A) I think NY could do better for KP, by a long-shot
B) I am a KP fan, but think he's a bad durability bet (especially on his next contract).

[Peelboy]

Their motivation is that KP is disgruntled on not being on a playoff team and a draft pick won't help their near-term prospects.

Speaking of trades...Kawhi not?

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/249574/Steve-Mills-James-Dolan-Wants-Us-To-Be-Patient-With-Knicks-Rebuild

Seems like NYK won't be trading their pick. However.....that might tee up an alternative. 6+22+Portis+filler for Porzingis. NYK kick starts their rebuild with 2 top 10, a good young big, and 22. I'd even throw in something else. Bulls take on Porzingis along with injury risk. By midseason, you roll out a lineup of Dunn-LaVine-Nwaba-Laura-Kristaps.

A) I think NY could do better for KP, by a long-shot
B) I am a KP fan, but think he's a bad durability bet (especially on his next contract).

I had thought that as well initially, but upon reflection, not so sure.
1. None of the other teams ahead of the Bulls are going to want to trade for KP (or he may not want to go there) because they have a lot less talent to put around him so are going to be looking to get their star in the draft and stay bad again next year. Possible exception Orlando. But who do they have to offer along with their #5 (assuming no move up)?

2. Teams behind the Bulls (SAC, CLE) start with worse offers given the dropoff in talent after 6. I suppose if NYK was enthralled with Fox, Hield, WCS maybe. But I don't see it.

3. Not many teams have extra picks to offer up as sweeteners.

Basically, I think PHX or maybe Atlanta could come up with a better offer, but they seem unlikely to want to do so. ATL can send their 2 picks which should be a couple slots higher than Bulls. But are they going to want to send Collins or Prince (and would NYK want them)? I don't see it. I would imagine they are more interested in adding young players and likely tanking again than trading for a pricey young vet. Similar for PHX. Is NYK interested in Jackson or Chriss v Portis? Cheaper but way worse. I suppose PHX could send 2-3 of their #1s this year including the high one. But they don't really seem like a team situated to do that.

Boston as always can be a player, but unless they put Tatum in the deal, are knicks really interested in sending Porzingis to beantown for Jaylen Brown and next year's Sac pick? If LAL pick goes top 2-3 and heads to Boston maybe, but if not, I can't see a deal that works for both sides.

Bulls with Dunn/LaVine/Markkanen have a ton more talent than other top 5 picking teams, and a hole at C to go with their pick. Not sure NYK is at all interested, but if they are Bulls can likely put together a package of similar or better quality than others.

[sco]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/249574/Steve-Mills-James-Dolan-Wants-Us-To-Be-Patient-With-Knicks-Rebuild

Seems like NYK won't be trading their pick. However.....that might tee up an alternative. 6+22+Portis+filler for Porzingis. NYK kick starts their rebuild with 2 top 10, a good young big, and 22. I'd even throw in something else. Bulls take on Porzingis along with injury risk. By midseason, you roll out a lineup of Dunn-LaVine-Nwaba-Laura-Kristaps.

A) I think NY could do better for KP, by a long-shot
B) I am a KP fan, but think he's a bad durability bet (especially on his next contract).

I had thought that as well initially, but upon reflection, not so sure.
1. None of the other teams ahead of the Bulls are going to want to trade for KP (or he may not want to go there) because they have a lot less talent to put around him so are going to be looking to get their star in the draft and stay bad again next year. Possible exception Orlando. But who do they have to offer along with their #5 (assuming no move up)?

2. Teams behind the Bulls (SAC, CLE) start with worse offers given the dropoff in talent after 6. I suppose if NYK was enthralled with Fox, Hield, WCS maybe. But I don't see it.

3. Not many teams have extra picks to offer up as sweeteners.

Basically, I think PHX or maybe Atlanta could come up with a better offer, but they seem unlikely to want to do so. ATL can send their 2 picks which should be a couple slots higher than Bulls. But are they going to want to send Collins or Prince (and would NYK want them)? I don't see it. I would imagine they are more interested in adding young players and likely tanking again than trading for a pricey young vet. Similar for PHX. Is NYK interested in Jackson or Chriss v Portis? Cheaper but way worse. I suppose PHX could send 2-3 of their #1s this year including the high one. But they don't really seem like a team situated to do that.

Boston as always can be a player, but unless they put Tatum in the deal, are knicks really interested in sending Porzingis to beantown for Jaylen Brown and next year's Sac pick? If LAL pick goes top 2-3 and heads to Boston maybe, but if not, I can't see a deal that works for both sides.

Bulls with Dunn/LaVine/Markkanen have a ton more talent than other top 5 picking teams, and a hole at C to go with their pick. Not sure NYK is at all interested, but if they are Bulls can likely put together a package of similar or better quality than others.

On my B), what's your expected % of games he plays healthy during his next MAX contract. I'm at 50-60%.

[PrimzyBulls81]

On the Bulls I would leave available for trade everyone,only Lauri, Bobby and Dunn unavailable..
Lavine + 6 + 22 for Leonard is solid deal I think,they round up starting lineup with Lavine,
Murray - Lavine - Green - K.Anderson - Aldridge ; Parker - P.Mills - Ginobili - B.Paul - Gay - P.Gasol
plus two good draft picks..

Dunn - Nwaba - Leonard - Markannen - Lopez
Payne - Kilpatrick - Valentine - Holiday - Portis - Vonleh - Felicio

[aramada]

On the Bulls I would leave available for trade everyone,only Lauri, Bobby and Dunn unavailable..
Lavine + 6 + 22 for Leonard is solid deal I think,they round up starting lineup with Lavine,
Murray - Lavine - Green - K.Anderson - Aldridge ; Parker - P.Mills - Ginobili - B.Paul - Gay - P.Gasol
plus two good draft picks..

Dunn - Nwaba - Leonard - Markannen - Lopez
Payne - Kilpatrick - Valentine - Holiday - Portis - Vonleh - Felicio

Lavine can't be traded until the new season because he's a free agent, and you can't assign a S&T player the same value as if he had a contract. But if you did, you'd have to select #6 / #22 first, hope that SA likes the picks, THEN involve LaVine in the S&T on July 1st.
Sounds far-fetched to me.

[League Circles]

Anyone think Charlotte might go for Bobby and 22 for #11, or something similar?

I really want Miles Bridges in addition to whoever we draft at 6. So I'd like to trade up.

[Davell]

Anyone think Charlotte might go for Bobby and 22 for #11, or something similar?

I really want Miles Bridges in addition to whoever we draft at 6. So I'd like to trade up.

Kupchak has said 11 could be dealt. But, I'd be surprised if it were dealt for anything other than Kawhi(with Walker) or to get a team to take on Batum's horrible deal.

That said, given the fact we're not going to be players in FA..... I'm kind of intrigued by a deal like that for Batum. He's not a bad player, he's just way overpaid. But, adding him, along with 11 and wherever our pick lands, could put us into the playoffs and improving year to year, once the youngsters are getting older.

Plus, its just tying up space for a couple of years. You can use him in a trade for a high salaried good player, as an expiring in year 3 any way hopefully.

Again, its a bunch of money. But he's a decent player and we could at least get good use of him.

[Chi town]

Anyone willing to take Jo back from Knicks to move-up?

Jo + Knicks 1st for Shrek, Valentine or Holiday and Pels 1st.

Obviously yes. But why would the Knicks move down from 9 to 22 just to shed salary? They are insanely rich. And if its for cap space, that's an enormous draft sacrifice to make a run at the market. 'They'd basically have to have a back door promise from someone that they couldn't otherwise sign outright without the trade.

Their motivation is that KP is disgruntled on not being on a playoff team and a draft pick won't help their near-term prospects.

Speaking of trades...Kawhi not?

Zinger is gone if they don't make the playoffs next season IMO.

If they could dump Noah and get #22 and Portis or Val along with a vet starter to replace Noah's salary.... they are probably making the playoffs next season.

[ChettheJet]

I think the Nuggets will need cap space to resign Barton, wondering what everyone's thought were.

Portis and 22 for Faried and 14.

Bulls take on Faried and the extra 10 million to move up to 14. Faried isn't dead money as he would be an ok bench player (unlike Asik)

If DEN is indeed concerned about money then they might do this. They would save about $10M on the swap plus the salary slot of the draft picks. It's worth it to the Bulls to move up 8 slots. It's more likely to get a rookie who can be a rotation player at 14 than 22.

I see the Bulls keeping Lopez, even if so many just see him as a contract for cap space. So if they're stuck with Felicio at this point he might as well be the backup. I like Faried as being more of a banger inside than Portis and certainly more than Markkanen which a team needs at times. Plus he's only got one year left on his deal so that $13M comes off when the Bulls also cut loose Asik, Lopez expires and they'll have big money to spend on a FA with a growing young team to attract somebody. They could always resign Vonleah or there are always similar players available after the draft when teams draft their new phenom.

[aramada]

I think the Nuggets will need cap space to resign Barton, wondering what everyone's thought were.

Portis and 22 for Faried and 14.

Bulls take on Faried and the extra 10 million to move up to 14. Faried isn't dead money as he would be an ok bench player (unlike Asik)

Value is not too far off. With that being said, I don't see a scenario where Denver trades down again after they gifted Mitchell to Utah last summer

[Repeat 3-peat]

Why do fans just want to ship off a 23 year old Bobby Portis who has improved each season just to move up in the draft for an unproven rookie?

[GimmeDat]

Why do fans just want to ship off a 23 year old Bobby Portis who has improved each season just to move up in the draft for an unproven rookie?

Plays behind our best prospect, will need to get paid soon, some question his character (but let's not open up that can of worms again), some question how much his game contributes to winning relative to his actual production.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Why do fans just want to ship off a 23 year old Bobby Portis who has improved each season just to move up in the draft for an unproven rookie?

Plays behind our best prospect, will need to get paid soon, some question his character (but let's not open up that can of worms again), some question how much his game contributes to winning relative to his actual production.

1. BP and Lauri will see PT together.
2. I don't see the issue paying BP, they're fine cap wise. After next season they'll have even more cap space.
3. The FO, coaches and teammates all seem like to like Portis.

[GimmeDat]

Why do fans just want to ship off a 23 year old Bobby Portis who has improved each season just to move up in the draft for an unproven rookie?

Plays behind our best prospect, will need to get paid soon, some question his character (but let's not open up that can of worms again), some question how much his game contributes to winning relative to his actual production.

1. BP and Lauri will see PT together.
2. I don't see the issue paying BP, they're fine cap wise. After next season they'll have even more cap space.
3. The FO, coaches and teammates all seem like to like Portis.

It's still not an ideal allocation of cap space. I'd be fine with it if they make sense in lineups together but I don't think they do. Defense would be really bad with both of them on the floor.

Of course we're fine with cap right now, but then Felicio's deal would be a mute point as well. Once we have to start extending guys, in a few years time, having money locked in to 2nd unit players will greatly hurt our flexibility.

The organization seem to like him from an outsiders glance, but I was referring more to the fan perception and why some people would like to see him moved.

I don't think it's the worst thing if we keep him but I do think it's definitely worth shopping him and seeing if there's good value out there.

[sco]

Plays behind our best prospect, will need to get paid soon, some question his character (but let's not open up that can of worms again), some question how much his game contributes to winning relative to his actual production.

1. BP and Lauri will see PT together.
2. I don't see the issue paying BP, they're fine cap wise. After next season they'll have even more cap space.
3. The FO, coaches and teammates all seem like to like Portis.

It's still not an ideal allocation of cap space. I'd be fine with it if they make sense in lineups together but I don't think they do. Defense would be really bad with both of them on the floor.

Of course we're fine with cap right now, but then Felicio's deal would be a mute point as well. Once we have to start extending guys, in a few years time, having money locked in to 2nd unit players will greatly hurt our flexibility.

The organization seem to like him from an outsiders glance, but I was referring more to the fan perception and why some people would like to see him moved.

I don't think it's the worst thing if we keep him but I do think it's definitely worth shopping him and seeing if there's good value out there.

Well said!

I have said this before, I like Bobby. He has shown demonstrable improvement from hard work. I have no problem keeping him.

The BUT here is that if the FO thinks (as I do) that he's looking for near-starter or starter money, I think now is a good time to re-assess what he brings in trade.

Everybody has agents spewing that their player is (or is on his way to becoming) one step up the food chain than he really is. There are only 4 types of contracts the Bulls (in their current state of rebuilding) should be focused on:

1) MAX Contracts for stars in their prime
2) Rookie contracts
3) Vet min contracts (or at least sub $6M ones)
4) Bad 1 or 2 year contracts that come with picks in trade

We still need 1 or 2 allstar players. Good players making near $10M or more have a high opportunity cost. That money is much better spent on 1 or 4 above. If I've learned anything in the past few years is that the gap between the great players and regular starters is greater than the gap between non-star starters and guys you can get on a vet min deal.