Kings Off-Season

[realEAST]

Says who? Willie strikes me as the classic Kings pick who the Kings don't want to let go of even if it might be wise to move on.

Not much love for him? He seems like a decent C with room to grow on both ends as he put up some strength, develops skill a bit (he has 3 assist per game, that came as a surprise for me). Character problems or just rebounding?

There are a lot of Willie apologists and haters in the community. I am more of the former, but it really depends on what the expectation is. I think Willie has all the tools to become a defensive anchor and fantastic rim-runner. He defends the post well and can switch onto smaller players. His length really challenges offensive players to change shots and it's a sight to see from time to time. The issue is that he knows he has these physical gifts and it seems he thinks he can rely on those instead of working on the little nuances of defense. The result is him playing good (not-lockdown) defense and then using his energy on offense. Another issue of his defense is that he will start to sulk a little on defense if he isn't involved on offense.

Willie really wants to be a go-to offensive guy, but he just isn't that guy. He said earlier in the year that he can play like a guard and that he can be better than Porzingis. It comes off as delusional, but I think it really means he wants to be better. I take this as a positive and a negative. The positive is that he is trying to get better and it is showing. The negative is that he is working on parts of his game that could wait. He needs to be perfecting his role skills. He is and will be "typecasted" into the rim-runner role. That is what teams (including the Kings) will want from him. The sooner he realizes that, the sooner he can change his perception with fans.

He's a good player with great physical gifts. He just has the wrong mindset.

P.S. you mentioned rebounding. The dude doesn't fight for boards. He just gets the ones that are obviously going to be his. It's really infuriating because he has shown flashes of being a plus rebounder. It comes down to effort in that skill. That's the one spot that he seems to give low effort on.

It's really interesting to hear how he sees himself as player and the way he envisions his development. More surprising actually and weird for a guy that can thrive in certain role. I mean, it is natural to want to expand your game, especially an offensive repertoir for a player of his type and caliber, but I share your premise that it is easier to do from a more firm treshold as pretty high level role player (he was projected as potentially DPOY). It would be a shame if he didn't reach his full potential, paradoxically, because of his athletic gifts. Well, maybe seeimg how much praise Gobert gets changes his mind.

Funny enough, if channeled right his self percieved image as a player, if he proves he has neccessary skills ofc, would fit well with alleged offensive vision Hoiberg has, that is based on pace, ball movement and 3pt shooting (still a bit blurry for me, although we showed some flashes from time to time this season)

[realEAST]

Not much love for him? He seems like a decent C with room to grow on both ends as he put up some strength, develops skill a bit (he has 3 assist per game, that came as a surprise for me). Character problems or just rebounding?

There are a lot of Willie apologists and haters in the community. I am more of the former, but it really depends on what the expectation is. I think Willie has all the tools to become a defensive anchor and fantastic rim-runner. He defends the post well and can switch onto smaller players. His length really challenges offensive players to change shots and it's a sight to see from time to time. The issue is that he knows he has these physical gifts and it seems he thinks he can rely on those instead of working on the little nuances of defense. The result is him playing good (not-lockdown) defense and then using his energy on offense. Another issue of his defense is that he will start to sulk a little on defense if he isn't involved on offense.

Willie really wants to be a go-to offensive guy, but he just isn't that guy. He said earlier in the year that he can play like a guard and that he can be better than Porzingis. It comes off as delusional, but I think it really means he wants to be better. I take this as a positive and a negative. The positive is that he is trying to get better and it is showing. The negative is that he is working on parts of his game that could wait. He needs to be perfecting his role skills. He is and will be "typecasted" into the rim-runner role. That is what teams (including the Kings) will want from him. The sooner he realizes that, the sooner he can change his perception with fans.

He's a good player with great physical gifts. He just has the wrong mindset.

P.S. you mentioned rebounding. The dude doesn't fight for boards. He just gets the ones that are obviously going to be his. It's really infuriating because he has shown flashes of being a plus rebounder. It comes down to effort in that skill. That's the one spot that he seems to give low effort on.

I've said since his rookie year he's got terrible rebounding fundamentals. You hit the nail right on the head, he relies entirely on his athleticism to get boards so he rarely ever boxes out or gets position. He just wants to use his physical gifts to grab boards but that doesn't work in the NBA. I have seen zero progress on the glass from him over his career. The fact he's so delusional that he wants to be a guard instead of maximing his god given abilities to be the defensive anchor/rim runner role leads me to believe he'll want a sizable contract too. I'd trade him this summer to anyone willing to give up some draft picks, maybe even eat a bad contract if it brings back some good assets.

Interesting point regarding contract expectations - he crossed my mind because I thought he could be a not too expensive option. Was thinking about Portis-WCS switch so we avoid what I think would be an overpay for Portis.

[codydaze]

There are a lot of Willie apologists and haters in the community. I am more of the former, but it really depends on what the expectation is. I think Willie has all the tools to become a defensive anchor and fantastic rim-runner. He defends the post well and can switch onto smaller players. His length really challenges offensive players to change shots and it's a sight to see from time to time. The issue is that he knows he has these physical gifts and it seems he thinks he can rely on those instead of working on the little nuances of defense. The result is him playing good (not-lockdown) defense and then using his energy on offense. Another issue of his defense is that he will start to sulk a little on defense if he isn't involved on offense.

Willie really wants to be a go-to offensive guy, but he just isn't that guy. He said earlier in the year that he can play like a guard and that he can be better than Porzingis. It comes off as delusional, but I think it really means he wants to be better. I take this as a positive and a negative. The positive is that he is trying to get better and it is showing. The negative is that he is working on parts of his game that could wait. He needs to be perfecting his role skills. He is and will be "typecasted" into the rim-runner role. That is what teams (including the Kings) will want from him. The sooner he realizes that, the sooner he can change his perception with fans.

He's a good player with great physical gifts. He just has the wrong mindset.

P.S. you mentioned rebounding. The dude doesn't fight for boards. He just gets the ones that are obviously going to be his. It's really infuriating because he has shown flashes of being a plus rebounder. It comes down to effort in that skill. That's the one spot that he seems to give low effort on.

I've said since his rookie year he's got terrible rebounding fundamentals. You hit the nail right on the head, he relies entirely on his athleticism to get boards so he rarely ever boxes out or gets position. He just wants to use his physical gifts to grab boards but that doesn't work in the NBA. I have seen zero progress on the glass from him over his career. The fact he's so delusional that he wants to be a guard instead of maximing his god given abilities to be the defensive anchor/rim runner role leads me to believe he'll want a sizable contract too. I'd trade him this summer to anyone willing to give up some draft picks, maybe even eat a bad contract if it brings back some good assets.

Interesting point regarding contract expectations - he crossed my mind because I thought he could be a not too expensive option. Was thinking about Portis-WCS switch so we avoid what I think would be an overpay for Portis.

I wouldn't throw any more than 10 million, anually, at him but I just feel that he will see himself as a 12-15 million dollar guy in the vain of a Nerlens Noel. He doesn't have the attitude issues Noel does but I do think his self perception will get in the way.

[codydaze]

There are a lot of Willie apologists and haters in the community. I am more of the former, but it really depends on what the expectation is. I think Willie has all the tools to become a defensive anchor and fantastic rim-runner. He defends the post well and can switch onto smaller players. His length really challenges offensive players to change shots and it's a sight to see from time to time. The issue is that he knows he has these physical gifts and it seems he thinks he can rely on those instead of working on the little nuances of defense. The result is him playing good (not-lockdown) defense and then using his energy on offense. Another issue of his defense is that he will start to sulk a little on defense if he isn't involved on offense.

Willie really wants to be a go-to offensive guy, but he just isn't that guy. He said earlier in the year that he can play like a guard and that he can be better than Porzingis. It comes off as delusional, but I think it really means he wants to be better. I take this as a positive and a negative. The positive is that he is trying to get better and it is showing. The negative is that he is working on parts of his game that could wait. He needs to be perfecting his role skills. He is and will be "typecasted" into the rim-runner role. That is what teams (including the Kings) will want from him. The sooner he realizes that, the sooner he can change his perception with fans.

He's a good player with great physical gifts. He just has the wrong mindset.

P.S. you mentioned rebounding. The dude doesn't fight for boards. He just gets the ones that are obviously going to be his. It's really infuriating because he has shown flashes of being a plus rebounder. It comes down to effort in that skill. That's the one spot that he seems to give low effort on.

I've said since his rookie year he's got terrible rebounding fundamentals. You hit the nail right on the head, he relies entirely on his athleticism to get boards so he rarely ever boxes out or gets position. He just wants to use his physical gifts to grab boards but that doesn't work in the NBA. I have seen zero progress on the glass from him over his career. The fact he's so delusional that he wants to be a guard instead of maximing his god given abilities to be the defensive anchor/rim runner role leads me to believe he'll want a sizable contract too. I'd trade him this summer to anyone willing to give up some draft picks, maybe even eat a bad contract if it brings back some good assets.

It's very upsetting that he hasn't improved in rebounding. He seems like a guy who really wants to be liked, but everyone loves the guy who gets boards. Why not be him?! I play pickup games all the time and I'm not the most talented guy offensively. One thing I do very well is hustle and get boards. This helps win games and everyone pats me on the back for it. I know this example is small and slightly irrelevant, but this role goes all the way up to the NBA. People love their hustlers and rebounders. Fans fall in love with them (Brockman, Cooley, Acy, heck even Artest). Players rely on these guys to get extra possessions and push the team to the next level. Why doesn't Willie see this? It's pretty clear that he can be an elite rim-runner/hustler/rebounder with his physical skills. He could get PAID too. it's very irritating.

He strikes me as a guy who prefers the flashy things as opposed to what he can actually be effective doing. Playing like a guard is definitely the more flashy play style and I think that fits in with his interests in fashion and the fact that I constantly see him out at the clubs.

[scoobs07]

Would you trade #7 to the Lakers for Ingram and Deng?

Why for Kings?
You get Ingram, who averages 16,5 and 4 as a 20 year old. Hes ready to break out and be a 20+ ppg scorer. He is NBA proven, unlike whatever you get at #7. His salary is cost controlled for 2 more seasons and after that you could match whatever he is offered.


Why for Lakers?
We dump Deng. The pick helps compensate for the loss of Ingram. Even if we end up with just an ok NBA player like Bridges, its worth it for dumping Deng because we are perusing free agents and keeping Randle.

[kalenclayton]

Would you trade #7 to the Lakers for Ingram and Deng?

Why for Kings?
You get Ingram, who averages 16,5 and 4 as a 20 year old. Hes ready to break out and be a 20+ ppg scorer. He is NBA proven, unlike whatever you get at #7. His salary is cost controlled for 2 more seasons and after that you could match whatever he is offered.


Why for Lakers?
We dump Deng. The pick helps compensate for the loss of Ingram. Even if we end up with just an ok NBA player like Bridges, its worth it for dumping Deng because we are perusing free agents and keeping Randle.

I say yes, but I'm a huge fan of Ingram. Doing this trade would be basically paying Ingram max money for the next couple years. Maybe Joerger could resurrect Deng a little, but I wouldn't count on it. I do this trade for Ingram because I see a star in the making. He fits exactly what the Kings need right now.

[realEAST]

I've said since his rookie year he's got terrible rebounding fundamentals. You hit the nail right on the head, he relies entirely on his athleticism to get boards so he rarely ever boxes out or gets position. He just wants to use his physical gifts to grab boards but that doesn't work in the NBA. I have seen zero progress on the glass from him over his career. The fact he's so delusional that he wants to be a guard instead of maximing his god given abilities to be the defensive anchor/rim runner role leads me to believe he'll want a sizable contract too. I'd trade him this summer to anyone willing to give up some draft picks, maybe even eat a bad contract if it brings back some good assets.

Interesting point regarding contract expectations - he crossed my mind because I thought he could be a not too expensive option. Was thinking about Portis-WCS switch so we avoid what I think would be an overpay for Portis.

I wouldn't throw any more than 10 million, anually, at him but I just feel that he will see himself as a 12-15 million dollar guy in the vain of a Nerlens Noel. He doesn't have the attitude issues Noel does but I do think his self perception will get in the way.

Yep, 10, 11 mil is max what I'd be willing to commit. Still, there is one trick with Bulls - there is high probability that best prospect in our range is C.

[kalenclayton]

Would you trade #7 to the Lakers for Ingram and Deng?

Why for Kings?
You get Ingram, who averages 16,5 and 4 as a 20 year old. Hes ready to break out and be a 20+ ppg scorer. He is NBA proven, unlike whatever you get at #7. His salary is cost controlled for 2 more seasons and after that you could match whatever he is offered.


Why for Lakers?
We dump Deng. The pick helps compensate for the loss of Ingram. Even if we end up with just an ok NBA player like Bridges, its worth it for dumping Deng because we are perusing free agents and keeping Randle.

I say yes, but I'm a huge fan of Ingram. Doing this trade would be basically paying Ingram max money for the next couple years. Maybe Joerger could resurrect Deng a little, but I wouldn't count on it. I do this trade for Ingram because I see a star in the making. He fits exactly what the Kings need right now.

I would also be asking for #25 though. I'd want a little more than paying all that money for Ingram.

[BoogieTime]

I've said since his rookie year he's got terrible rebounding fundamentals. You hit the nail right on the head, he relies entirely on his athleticism to get boards so he rarely ever boxes out or gets position. He just wants to use his physical gifts to grab boards but that doesn't work in the NBA. I have seen zero progress on the glass from him over his career. The fact he's so delusional that he wants to be a guard instead of maximing his god given abilities to be the defensive anchor/rim runner role leads me to believe he'll want a sizable contract too. I'd trade him this summer to anyone willing to give up some draft picks, maybe even eat a bad contract if it brings back some good assets.

It's very upsetting that he hasn't improved in rebounding. He seems like a guy who really wants to be liked, but everyone loves the guy who gets boards. Why not be him?! I play pickup games all the time and I'm not the most talented guy offensively. One thing I do very well is hustle and get boards. This helps win games and everyone pats me on the back for it. I know this example is small and slightly irrelevant, but this role goes all the way up to the NBA. People love their hustlers and rebounders. Fans fall in love with them (Brockman, Cooley, Acy, heck even Artest). Players rely on these guys to get extra possessions and push the team to the next level. Why doesn't Willie see this? It's pretty clear that he can be an elite rim-runner/hustler/rebounder with his physical skills. He could get PAID too. it's very irritating.

He strikes me as a guy who prefers the flashy things as opposed to what he can actually be effective doing. Playing like a guard is definitely the more flashy play style and I think that fits in with his interests in fashion and the fact that I constantly see him out at the clubs.

He lacks motor. Its easier and more entertaining to play like a guard and do guard things than exert yourself on the tedious defensive assignments

[SacKingZZZ]

He's highly available.

Got to see where we draft, 1-3 or 7-8 etc.

But he can be had no doubt.

Says who? Willie strikes me as the classic Kings pick who the Kings don't want to let go of even if it might be wise to move on.

Not much love for him? He seems like a decent C with room to grow on both ends as he put up some strength, develops skill a bit (he has 3 assist per game, that came as a surprise for me). Character problems or just rebounding?

I like him, I don't think he's being used totally correctly, but time is ticking on his deal now and the Kings have a lot of questions as to how the team should look moving on. The tough thing about hitting the reset button while never not undergoing a rebuild is that your rookie enders are going to be tough to manage. I think with Willie it would be about timing more than anything. If he still had time on a cheap contract it would be different. The Kings wasting more than half the season last year hurts because there isn't enough information as to how valuable each piece is to the team moving forward and some team will recognize Willies abilities and drive up his price I'd bet.

Another thing to remember is Willie is already in his mid-20's.

[scoobs07]

Would you trade #7 to the Lakers for Ingram and Deng?

Why for Kings?
You get Ingram, who averages 16,5 and 4 as a 20 year old. Hes ready to break out and be a 20+ ppg scorer. He is NBA proven, unlike whatever you get at #7. His salary is cost controlled for 2 more seasons and after that you could match whatever he is offered.


Why for Lakers?
We dump Deng. The pick helps compensate for the loss of Ingram. Even if we end up with just an ok NBA player like Bridges, its worth it for dumping Deng because we are perusing free agents and keeping Randle.

I say yes, but I'm a huge fan of Ingram. Doing this trade would be basically paying Ingram max money for the next couple years. Maybe Joerger could resurrect Deng a little, but I wouldn't count on it. I do this trade for Ingram because I see a star in the making. He fits exactly what the Kings need right now.

I would also be asking for #25 though. I'd want a little more than paying all that money for Ingram.

It makes sense for both teams. Lakers would probably try to keep the #25 though. But, they would negotiate.

[SacKingZZZ]

He's highly available.

Got to see where we draft, 1-3 or 7-8 etc.

But he can be had no doubt.

Says who? Willie strikes me as the classic Kings pick who the Kings don't want to let go of even if it might be wise to move on.

I think he's got a good chance to be gone this summer if we drafted Ayton or Bamba.

Otherwise maybe at the deadline depending on what he shows.

But I don't think they are shopping him, just open to trading him.

I think Joerger would find a way to make it "work".

Yeah, if they draft a C of the future I would hope they'd look to capitalize on the duplication somehow.

[SacKingZZZ]

I say yes, but I'm a huge fan of Ingram. Doing this trade would be basically paying Ingram max money for the next couple years. Maybe Joerger could resurrect Deng a little, but I wouldn't count on it. I do this trade for Ingram because I see a star in the making. He fits exactly what the Kings need right now.

I would also be asking for #25 though. I'd want a little more than paying all that money for Ingram.

It makes sense for both teams. Lakers would probably try to keep the #25 though. But, they would negotiate.

I think the Lakers could keep the 25, the Kings don't need a low pick in a shallow draft anyway. The Kings have drafted way too many low 1st rounders these last few years.

[BoogieTime]

It’s going to be such a buyers market this summer that it could nullify our reputation, and like a normal team we can be players in FA. Makes me excited when I see the cap space available around the league. I’m actually looking forward to it a bit despite my unease with the FO

[City of Trees]

It’s going to be such a buyers market this summer that it could nullify our reputation, and like a normal team we can be players in FA. Makes me excited when I see the cap space available around the league. I’m actually looking forward to it a bit despite my unease with the FO

Props to the FO on putting themselves in this position....but it means nothing without a splash. The right splash.

Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app

[Sactowndog]

The key thing about Willie is we have Giles coming next year and if rumors are true Willie becomes redundant. This summer is the time to trade him for a good wing. Even if we have to take salary back. Willie won’t/can’t be a backup where Skal might. The ideal would be getting Otto Porter for Willie but we will have to add 7 (not ideal) or take dead money like Mahinni.

[Sactowndog]

Would you trade #7 to the Lakers for Ingram and Deng?

Why for Kings?
You get Ingram, who averages 16,5 and 4 as a 20 year old. Hes ready to break out and be a 20+ ppg scorer. He is NBA proven, unlike whatever you get at #7. His salary is cost controlled for 2 more seasons and after that you could match whatever he is offered.


Why for Lakers?
We dump Deng. The pick helps compensate for the loss of Ingram. Even if we end up with just an ok NBA player like Bridges, its worth it for dumping Deng because we are perusing free agents and keeping Randle.

I say yes, but I'm a huge fan of Ingram. Doing this trade would be basically paying Ingram max money for the next couple years. Maybe Joerger could resurrect Deng a little, but I wouldn't count on it. I do this trade for Ingram because I see a star in the making. He fits exactly what the Kings need right now.

I would also be asking for #25 though. I'd want a little more than paying all that money for Ingram.

No way the Lakers make that Trade. But if they would I’d do it in a second. But that being said I would rather have Otto Porter. I think Porter is dramatically under used playing with Wall.

[City of Trees]

I say yes, but I'm a huge fan of Ingram. Doing this trade would be basically paying Ingram max money for the next couple years. Maybe Joerger could resurrect Deng a little, but I wouldn't count on it. I do this trade for Ingram because I see a star in the making. He fits exactly what the Kings need right now.

I would also be asking for #25 though. I'd want a little more than paying all that money for Ingram.

No way the Lakers make that Trade. But if they would I’d do it in a second. But that being said I would rather have Otto Porter. I think Porter is dramatically under used playing with Wall.

Isnt Wall the comparison for Fox?

Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app

[Sactowndog]

I would also be asking for #25 though. I'd want a little more than paying all that money for Ingram.

No way the Lakers make that Trade. But if they would I’d do it in a second. But that being said I would rather have Otto Porter. I think Porter is dramatically under used playing with Wall.

Isnt Wall the comparison for Fox?

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Yeah and if Fox doesn’t learn to pass the Kings could have the same problems. But Bogdan is a better passer than Beal.

[realEAST]

I've said since his rookie year he's got terrible rebounding fundamentals. You hit the nail right on the head, he relies entirely on his athleticism to get boards so he rarely ever boxes out or gets position. He just wants to use his physical gifts to grab boards but that doesn't work in the NBA. I have seen zero progress on the glass from him over his career. The fact he's so delusional that he wants to be a guard instead of maximing his god given abilities to be the defensive anchor/rim runner role leads me to believe he'll want a sizable contract too. I'd trade him this summer to anyone willing to give up some draft picks, maybe even eat a bad contract if it brings back some good assets.

It's very upsetting that he hasn't improved in rebounding. He seems like a guy who really wants to be liked, but everyone loves the guy who gets boards. Why not be him?! I play pickup games all the time and I'm not the most talented guy offensively. One thing I do very well is hustle and get boards. This helps win games and everyone pats me on the back for it. I know this example is small and slightly irrelevant, but this role goes all the way up to the NBA. People love their hustlers and rebounders. Fans fall in love with them (Brockman, Cooley, Acy, heck even Artest). Players rely on these guys to get extra possessions and push the team to the next level. Why doesn't Willie see this? It's pretty clear that he can be an elite rim-runner/hustler/rebounder with his physical skills. He could get PAID too. it's very irritating.

He strikes me as a guy who prefers the flashy things as opposed to what he can actually be effective doing. Playing like a guard is definitely the more flashy play style and I think that fits in with his interests in fashion and the fact that I constantly see him out at the clubs.

To that degree, that certainly is a problem, and for me personally, it gets a bit irritating to watch. Nobody want's to emulate Tim Duncan