Otto Porter - Part 3

[Ruzious]

Otto's 8 games since the all-star break: per game: 19.1 points, 7.1 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1.0 turnovers, 56.6% from the field, 56.8% (holy spit) from 3.

Get him the ball when the game is on the line!

[FAH1223]

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[nate33]

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Let's see. There are a total of 6 forwards in the 3 All-NBA teams.

Lebron, Durant and Giannis are no-brainers. So is Anthony Davis unless you consider him a center (which is tough to do on a team where Demarcus Cousins and Emeka Okafor combined for 2100 minutes).

After that, there's Paul George, Simmons, Draymond, Anthony-Towns, Harris, Love, Griffin and a bunch of good-but-not great roll playing SF's like Ariza, Covington, Wiggins, Batum and Jaylen Brown.

I think George gets in ahead of Porter. I know there are statistical arguments in favor of Porter, but George might be the defensive player of the year this year while scoring 22 points per game with a respectable 111 ORtg.

If you consider Anthony-Towns a center, and if you rule out Love and Griffin because of games missed due to injury, then I guess Porter could be considered for that last spot, but he's probably behind Simmons and maybe Harris. Simmons has dramatically improved his efficiency over the past 3 months and is now averaging 16 points, 8 boards and 8 assists with a 110 ORtg. Harris is posting numbers similar to Porter, but with more points, less rebounds and more turnovers. But he is doing so as the first option on his team(s) against more defensive attention.

[payitforward]

Well, if there's no distinction made between 3's & 4's, then it's hard to get Otto in there, as you are certainly right that Davis, LeBron, Giannis & KD fill the roster.

If it's just 3's however, so that Davis is out, then you can put Otto in his spot. As to Paul George, I know he's an outstanding defender but, sorry, he's not even in consideration.

Obviously, this will cause outrage, b/c PG "is a star." I don't mean you, nate, but most people just think it's a matter of "names" not actual numbers that guys put up.

For example, if I point out that Paul George gets .2 more steals per 40 minutes than Otto Porter, you can count on people saying "see, that's better." But if I point out that Paul George turns the ball over (a whole) 2 (not point 2) more times than Otto in those same 40 minutes, you can count on explanatory excuses being made.

If I add that compared to OP, PG also fouls more, shoots worse, isn't as good a defensive rebounder & isn't as good an offensive rebounder, that won't matter either.

Finally, if I point out that OKC won 47 games last year, then added two "great" players (PG & Melo) in the off-season, the result this year being that they look like they'll actually get to 48 wins, well... that won't matter either! PG "is a star."

[Shanghai Kid]

Well, if there's no distinction made between 3's & 4's, then it's hard to get Otto in there, as you are certainly right that Davis, LeBron, Giannis & KD fill the roster.

If it's just 3's however, so that Davis is out, then you can put Otto in his spot. As to Paul George, I know he's an outstanding defender but, sorry, he's not even in consideration.

Obviously, this will cause outrage, b/c PG "is a star." I don't mean you, nate, but most people just think it's a matter of "names" not actual numbers that guys put up.

For example, if I point out that Paul George gets .2 more steals per 40 minutes than Otto Porter, you can count on people saying "see, that's better." But if I point out that Paul George turns the ball over (a whole) 2 (not point 2) more times than Otto in those same 40 minutes, you can count on explanatory excuses being made.

If I add that compared to OP, PG also fouls more, shoots worse, isn't as good a defensive rebounder & isn't as good an offensive rebounder, that won't matter either.

Finally, if I point out that OKC won 47 games last year, then added two "great" players (PG & Melo) in the off-season, the result this year being that they look like they'll actually get to 48 wins, well... that won't matter either! PG "is a star."

I think it's perfectly reasonable to say Jeff Teague was better than John Wall last year, and that Otto is better than Paul Geroge this year.

And not only is Otto better..but PG isn't even in consideration. LIke it's not even close when you ignore the names.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Thanks, John Wall!

Porter was the leading scorer today! I bet you John Wall figured out just how good Otto Porter really is by watching him play those first few games without John Wall.

[FAH1223]

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[nate33]

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Kevin makes a really good point. The Wizards went 12-6 during the "everybody eats" period when Wall was out and Otto was healthy.

The team fell apart after the Porter injury and the narrative was that the team couldn't survive without Wall other than for a brief period when the team got by with smoke and mirrors. Maybe that narrative is false. Maybe the team is just fine without Wall, just not so fine without a healthy Porter. The team went 5-11 (7-15 counting the playoffs) after Porter got hurt, including a lot of bad losses against tanking teams. Even when Wall played, they were just 2-2 (4-6 counting the playoffs).

[FAH1223]

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Kevin makes a really good point. The Wizards went 12-6 during the "everybody eats" period when Wall was out and Otto was healthy.

The team fell apart after the Porter injury and the narrative was that the team couldn't survive without Wall other than for a brief period when the team got by with smoke and mirrors. Maybe that narrative is false. Maybe the team is just fine without Wall, just not so fine without a healthy Porter. The team went 5-11 (7-15 counting the playoffs) after Porter got hurt, including a lot of bad losses against tanking teams. Even when Wall played, they were just 2-2 (4-6 counting the playoffs).

Perhaps we just need healthy Otto and healthy John.

Wall in his exit interview echo'd exactly what Kev posted.

When Wall was talking about guys not knowing their roles... he was def throwing shade at Oubre IMO.

[payitforward]

Here's a direct link to Kev's article -- for those who like me stopped w/ reading the tweet the first 3-4 times they saw it in this thread -- https://www.bulletsforever.com/2018/5/4/17318514/otto-porter-washington-wizards-production-analysis?utm_campaign=broom_kevin&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

It's right on, & it confirms what I've been saying for more than a year: Otto Porter is the Wizards best player.

I'd say it's 50-50 that Ernie trades him this Summer.

[Shanghai Kid]

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Kevin makes a really good point. The Wizards went 12-6 during the "everybody eats" period when Wall was out and Otto was healthy.

The team fell apart after the Porter injury and the narrative was that the team couldn't survive without Wall other than for a brief period when the team got by with smoke and mirrors. Maybe that narrative is false. Maybe the team is just fine without Wall, just not so fine without a healthy Porter. The team went 5-11 (7-15 counting the playoffs) after Porter got hurt, including a lot of bad losses against tanking teams. Even when Wall played, they were just 2-2 (4-6 counting the playoffs).

It probably doesn't need to be framed as Porter vs Wall. Ideally we can have both players healthy.

Also, when framing the 4-6 schedule, keep in mind that 6 of the games were against a 59 win Toronto team, the other 4 games were @Cleveland, @Houston, Boston, and Charlotte. By the end the team was losing to the Knicks, Bulls, Magic, and Hawks. I'm not sure a healthy Otto is what moves the needle there. The whole team collapsed.

One of the biggest issues is that Beal looked done in the last few weeks of the season, probably on dead legs. I think that and Sato not being as effective and Ottos health were all big factors in the team playing like garbage.

[Shanghai Kid]

Here's a direct link to Kev's article -- for those who like me stopped w/ reading the tweet the first 3-4 times they saw it in this thread -- https://www.bulletsforever.com/2018/5/4/17318514/otto-porter-washington-wizards-production-analysis?utm_campaign=broom_kevin&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

It's right on, & it confirms what I've been saying for more than a year: Otto Porter is the Wizards best player.

I'd say it's 50-50 that Ernie trades him this Summer.

The question is will the team get Otto more involved in the offense? There was a stat on another site that said Jodie Meeks had more 4th quarter points than Otto last year.

Otto is so underutilized, it's comical.

[bondom34]

Hes by far your most underrated player, always think trade proposals for him are crazy. Always like Kevin's stuff too.

[DCZards]

A big part of Otto being utilized more depends on Otto. No doubt Wall and his other teammates need to look for Otto more and make sure he gets more shots, especially in the fourth quarter and at crunch time. But Otto also needs to diversify his offensive game by improving his ability to put the ball on the floor and create for himself and his teammates.

If he can do that, Otto will get even more open shots because defenders will have to respect his ability to drive past them. It should also lead to more trips to the FT line. Otto needs a more well-rounded offensive game to justify his max contract, imo.

[nate33]

Also, when framing the 4-6 schedule, keep in mind that 6 of the games were against a 59 win Toronto team, the other 4 games were @Cleveland, @Houston, Boston, and Charlotte. By the end the team was losing to the Knicks, Bulls, Magic, and Hawks. I'm not sure a healthy Otto is what moves the needle there. The whole team collapsed.

Houston had HCA locked up for the rest of the season. They were in chill mode.

Boston played without Kyrie, Smart and Horford, and they had 2nd seed locked up. They had nothing to play for.

Charlotte was out of the playoff race and tanking.

The only team that has something to play for was Cleveland.

[nate33]

Here's a direct link to Kev's article -- for those who like me stopped w/ reading the tweet the first 3-4 times they saw it in this thread -- https://www.bulletsforever.com/2018/5/4/17318514/otto-porter-washington-wizards-production-analysis?utm_campaign=broom_kevin&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

It's right on, & it confirms what I've been saying for more than a year: Otto Porter is the Wizards best player.

I'd say it's 50-50 that Ernie trades him this Summer.

The trade that is just begging to happen is Porter for Cousins. I don't want it and you don't want it, but I can definitely see both teams being very interested in it. For New Orleans, it gives them a perfect fit at their weakest position. For us, it gets us another "star", one who has ties to John Wall.

Sadly, not only is the deal bad because Cousins is overrated and hurt, but Cousins' perceived value is so high that we will probably have to give up picks to make the deal happen.

We could balance the roster a bit with a Gortat + Smith for Wes Matthews trade:

PG Wall/Sato
SG Beal/Matthews
SF Oubre/Matthews
PF Morris/
C Cousins/Mahinmi

[Kanyewest]

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Kevin makes a really good point. The Wizards went 12-6 during the "everybody eats" period when Wall was out and Otto was healthy.

The team fell apart after the Porter injury and the narrative was that the team couldn't survive without Wall other than for a brief period when the team got by with smoke and mirrors. Maybe that narrative is false. Maybe the team is just fine without Wall, just not so fine without a healthy Porter. The team went 5-11 (7-15 counting the playoffs) after Porter got hurt, including a lot of bad losses against tanking teams. Even when Wall played, they were just 2-2 (4-6 counting the playoffs).

Also the Wizards were 1-5 without Porter (including playoffs).

[Shanghai Kid]

Also, when framing the 4-6 schedule, keep in mind that 6 of the games were against a 59 win Toronto team, the other 4 games were @Cleveland, @Houston, Boston, and Charlotte. By the end the team was losing to the Knicks, Bulls, Magic, and Hawks. I'm not sure a healthy Otto is what moves the needle there. The whole team collapsed.

Houston had HCA locked up for the rest of the season. They were in chill mode.

Boston played without Kyrie, Smart and Horford, and they had 2nd seed locked up. They had nothing to play for.

Charlotte was out of the playoff race and tanking.

The only team that has something to play for was Cleveland.

The Wizards supposedly WITH something to play for lost to the Knicks, Bulls, Hawks, and Magic in the last few weeks of the season.

The nothing to play for argument is only relevant when a team is actually resting players. Boston was playing fantastic down the stretch and Houston played their full line-up and blew us out. And Charlotte was 3-0 against us on the season coming into that last game. Remember also we were up 20 in Cleveland in the 4th quarter and actually played great until the end.

Personally, I thought we looked good in the games with Wall at the end sans Houston. The assist numbers still looked good and the team played with more energy. We looked absolutely miserable in the final few games without Wall, but there were other factors such as Ottos health and Beal on dead legs.

The Wiz won the won the first 5 games without Wall. The record for the rest of the time without Wall is a bigger sample size and it isn't particularly good. Before you bring up strength of schedule, remember some of the wins along the way were against Indiana without Oladipo, New Orleans without Anthony Davis, forgot the 3rd one but it was another good team missing it's best player. By the end,"Everybody Eats" was getting blown out by the Knicks at home.

Beal without Wall seemed to get exhausted from carrying the load and didn't look good in the last few weeks. That along with Ottos health were big factors also.

We need all of them healthy to do anything.

[Dat2U]

I keep thinking we were up 5 with 8 mins left in the 4th in Game 5. That was with a badly dinged up Otto.

A healthy Otto, a healthy Wall and a coach that would have some sort of awareness about managing a guy's minutes would indeed make us very good in spite of our many flaws. I just have a hard time seeing this happen.

It's a good bet Otto gets dealt. Neither the front office, the coach or Wall/Beal seem to know what they have.

[Shanghai Kid]

I keep thinking we were up 5 with 8 mins left in the 4th in Game 5. That was with a badly dinged up Otto.

A healthy Otto, a healthy Wall and a coach that would have some sort of awareness about managing a guy's minutes would indeed make us very good in spite of our many flaws. I just have a hard time seeing this happen.

It's a good bet Otto gets dealt. Neither the front office, the coach or Wall/Beal seem to know what they have.

What is crazy is the Wizards had leads in the 4th quarters of games 1, 5, and 6.

It was really just about folding down the stretch.