Zach LaVine Rookie Extension - what to do?

riprose · Post #1581 » by **riprose** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:43 am

Does zack prove any other than dunk contest? Didn't he have enough time to prove himself? To me, he is a six man type player like crawford. A good player but far from a superstar...

BigJimFinn · Post #1582 » by **BigJimFinn** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:23 am

sco wrote:
I would sign Nwaba and let him start. It would allow us to go with an offense-oriented SF like Porter.

With a starting backcourt of Dunn and Nwaba the Bulls wouldn't score 90 points per game. Offensively, that is a homeless man's version of Rondo and Wade. Of course that could be a masterstroke for an unstoppable tanking strategy, while keeping and developing a couple of players who could be later very useful in different roles.

xpmar9x · Post #1583 » by **xpmar9x** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:41 am

BigJimFinn wrote:
sco wrote:
I would sign Nwaba and let him start. It would allow us to go with an offense-oriented SF like Porter.

With a starting backcourt of Dunn and Nwaba the Bulls wouldn't score 90 points per game. Offensively, that is a homeless man's version of Rondo and Wade. Of course that could be a masterstroke for an unstoppable tanking strategy, while keeping and developing a couple of players who could be later very useful in different roles.

Dunn showed flashes of being a solid scoring contributor last year, if he grew on that I could get behind a Dunn-Nwaba-MPJ-Lauri-___ lineup. Dunn/Nwaba defensively would be fun to watch. Obviously would need MPJ/Lauri to develop into 20+ ppg guys for it to work. Resign Lavine to a 2yr (2nd yr tm option) deal after a hold-out/no big$ offers (similar to what happened w Miro last yr). We find out MPJ/Lavine doesn't work the greatest together, flip Lavine for assets after he hopefully has a healthy productive 18-19 campaign. Those trade assets + cap space + Lauri/MPJ/Dunn could have us competing.

kodo · Post #1584 » by **kodo** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:38 pm

Chi town wrote:So let’s say Zach walks... we don’t match.

Do we sign Buddy’s Hield? Dante Exum?

Who is the replacement? Val doesn’t count.

I don't think it looks pretty...SG is the weakest position in the league and the most in-demand for a high caliber one. It's the worst supply vs demand situation right now. JJ Redick getting a $23M deal, Evan Turner getting $19M, KCP getting $18M, Alan Crabbe getting $18M, all prove that.

- Tyreke Evans (age 28), 19.4 ppg, $3.3M (he's not going to sign again for $3M, he only did it to get a big contract this season)
- JJ redick (33), 17.1 ppg, $23M
- Zach Lavine (22), 17 ppg, TBD
- Will Barton (27), 16 ppg, $3.5M (also not going to resign for $3M)
- Rodney Hood, Restricted will be matched
- Bradley, expected to be retained by LAC since they traded for him
- KCP (25), 13 ppg, $17.7M
- Gerald Green (32), 12 ppg, $1.3m

Other young gambles
- Hezonja
- Kyle Anderson
- Nik Stauskas
- Patrick McCaw

sco · Post #1585 » by **sco** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:52 pm

kodo wrote:
Chi town wrote:So let’s say Zach walks... we don’t match.

Do we sign Buddy’s Hield? Dante Exum?

Who is the replacement? Val doesn’t count.

I don't think it looks pretty...SG is the weakest position in the league and the most in-demand for a high caliber one. It's the worst supply vs demand situation right now. JJ Redick getting a $23M deal, Evan Turner getting $19M, KCP getting $18M, Alan Crabbe getting $18M, all prove that.

- Tyreke Evans (age 28), 19.4 ppg, $3.3M (he's not going to sign again for $3M, he only did it to get a big contract this season)
- JJ redick (33), 17.1 ppg, $23M
- Zach Lavine (22), 17 ppg, TBD
- Will Barton (27), 16 ppg, $3.5M (also not going to resign for $3M)
- Rodney Hood, Restricted will be matched
- Bradley, expected to be retained by LAC since they traded for him
- KCP (25), 13 ppg, $17.7M
- Gerald Green (32), 12 ppg, $1.3m

Other young gambles
- Hezonja
- Kyle Anderson
- Nik Stauskas
- Patrick McCaw

Fair point, although I think SF has the worst supply/demand dynamic for a position. I'd also note that 2-3 years ago there were some drunken spending contracts put out there when the cap increased. Looks like cap will be flat next year and there are very few teams with cap space to chuck at Lavine. I'm still thinking that nobody is gonna offer more than 4/$50M or ($13M) - esp to an RFA. I think once could argue a higher number if he didn't have the ACL and some late season knee pain.

bulliedog8 · Post #1586 » by **bulliedog8** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:35 pm

Lavine wants MPJ or Bamba for the bulls pick. Also said the next time he does the dunk contest will be Chicago 2020.

https://pippenainteasy.com/2018/04/16/zach-lavine-reveals-wants-chicago-bulls-pick-2018-nba-draft/

dice · Post #1587 » by **dice** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:33 pm

bulliedog8 wrote:Lavine wants MPJ or Bamba for the bulls pick. Also said the next time he does the dunk contest will be Chicago 2020.

https://pippenainteasy.com/2018/04/16/zach-lavine-reveals-wants-chicago-bulls-pick-2018-nba-draft/

hope not

YettiBull · Post #1588 » by **YettiBull** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:06 pm

Jamal Crawford with some more dunking ability.

Not even close to Klay.

3 or 4 years at 14-16 million per year.

rtblues · Post #1589 » by **rtblues** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:39 pm

After Paxson's press conference, it's clear that the Bulls have the upper hand in future negotiations.
It may have been a bit veiled or subtle, but his analysis of Lavine was not that of a STAR they were
hoping to retain and sign. On the contrary, he called him out and said he's got to play better.

How this actually plays out is anyone's guess, but in today's market it's quite a good strategy by Pax.
Just because there is a history of teams overpaying marginal players and getting stuck with un-tradeable contracts,
does not mean that the Bulls need to take that path. Instead, I see them "letting" Lavine test the market, and when
he doesn't get any huge, max-type offers, the Bulls then can make a low-ball offer, with limited years and not long-term.

This way they are saying, prove it, and see if he is willing to bet on himself, ala Jimmy few years ago.
Right now, I don't anticipate Lavine becoming a TOP 50 player or anything like that, anytime soon. To me
Lavine is sort of sizzle-no-steak. Dunk show star, but not a real high b-ball IQ. If it sounds pessimistic and negative,
yeah, I'm not a believer.

We can debate this endlessly here and post all sorts of arguments, but time will tell the
story. While he may physically come back 100% from the ACL and get back to where he was pre-trade, but that player
doesn't excite me. He's all about getting his shots, in a your-turn-my-turn offense, but in a ball movement oriented offense,
he's a ball stopper. I'll be disappointed if the Bulls pay this guy.

waffle · Post #1590 » by **waffle** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:05 pm

I love Lavine with the ball in his hands. He is hard to defend. I love his shot. BUT he is a movement killer and his D needs to continue to improve. He'd make a great 6th man, but I doubt that is how he sees himself.

Mech Engineer · Post #1591 » by **Mech Engineer** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:22 pm

waffle wrote:I love Lavine with the ball in his hands. He is hard to defend. I love his shot. BUT he is a movement killer and his D needs to continue to improve. He'd make a great 6th man, but I doubt that is how he sees himself.

How many 6th man types do we need. You add 6th man types once your starting unit looks set. Bobby, Zach, Denzel all have been mentioned as 6th man types. They are cherry on top of the pie but we want them to be an integral part of the pie.

waffle · Post #1592 » by **waffle** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:54 pm

Hey, I agree. But I still say he'd make a great 6th man on a good team.

RememberLu · Post #1593 » by **RememberLu** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:56 pm

Mech Engineer wrote:
waffle wrote:I love Lavine with the ball in his hands. He is hard to defend. I love his shot. BUT he is a movement killer and his D needs to continue to improve. He'd make a great 6th man, but I doubt that is how he sees himself.

How many 6th man types do we need. You add 6th man types once your starting unit looks set. Bobby, Zach, Denzel all have been mentioned as 6th man types. They are cherry on top of the pie but we want them to be an integral part of the pie.

Cherries can be an integral part of a pie. If it's cherry pie.

xpmar9x · Post #1594 » by **xpmar9x** » Thu May 10, 2018 2:04 am

4/60 is what I'd offer. If he wants more $ annually I'm reducing the years. Wouldn't be shocked to see a 2yr/36-40m deal (w/ tm option yr 2).

WindyCityBorn · Post #1595 » by **WindyCityBorn** » Thu May 10, 2018 11:42 pm

xpmar9x wrote:4/60 is what I'd offer. If he wants more $ annually I'm reducing the years. Wouldn't be shocked to see a 2yr/36-40m deal (w/ tm option yr 2).

I would be shocked. 4 years $75 million is my guesstimate.

Chi town · Post #1596 » by **Chi town** » Fri May 11, 2018 12:29 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
xpmar9x wrote:4/60 is what I'd offer. If he wants more $ annually I'm reducing the years. Wouldn't be shocked to see a 2yr/36-40m deal (w/ tm option yr 2).

I would be shocked. 4 years $75 million is my guesstimate.

Bulls will only match. I don't see anyone giving Lavine more than 15M per.

I'd guess its a 2/40M deal or a longer cheaper deal like 4/60.

IrishBeatdown · Post #1597 » by **IrishBeatdown** » Fri May 11, 2018 1:20 am

Lavine is a boat anchor, hopefully someone signs him to some crazy offer in the offseason. I just don't think he's got what it takes, and we cant afford to hedge our bets on a mediocre player to make a quantum leap despite no signs he's going to.

YettiBull · Post #1598 » by **YettiBull** » Fri May 11, 2018 1:42 am

Tank again and let him walk..

JohnnyKILLroy · Post #1599 » by **JohnnyKILLroy** » Fri May 11, 2018 1:48 am

I would rather save the money and give Blakeney the minutes.

WindyCityBorn · Post #1600 » by **WindyCityBorn** » Fri May 11, 2018 3:05 am

Chi town wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
xpmar9x wrote:4/60 is what I'd offer. If he wants more $ annually I'm reducing the years. Wouldn't be shocked to see a 2yr/36-40m deal (w/ tm option yr 2).

I would be shocked. 4 years $75 million is my guesstimate.

Bulls will only match. I don't see anyone giving Lavine more than 15M per.

I'd guess its a 2/40M deal or a longer cheaper deal like 4/60.

Where have you seen that the Bulls will only match? They didn't make Felicio go out and get other offers before handing him a $32 million. You want to make an avatar bet that LaVine gets at least $70 million? Loser has to use it for the first month of the next season. Any one reading can take me up on it. 8-)