Political Roundtable Part XX

[closg00]

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Paulie is still playing chicken, hoping for a bailout from Trump. Just hope there are enough state charges for him to deal with.
The VA Judge will certainly have no basis to not do the same.

[popper]

By Mueller? Fo sho.

But your post intimated that Trump would do something about it...which is laughable. Also love how you guys portray him as a victim.

He's a common criminal, piece of trash human being and thug that deserves everything coming his way. Deal with it.

You highlighted the sentence in my post that you had a problem with so there should be no question as to my meaning. I said “should”, not “would”. In addition, I’ve never portrayed Trump as a victim so that too is inaccurate. But I won’t LOL at you JW, it’s not polite.

Why are you playing semantics here and being overly sensitive? I know exactly what you meant. It's the equivalent of someone loling if I said "Ted Leonsis should fire Ernie Grunfled." Wink wink nudge nudge, it aint happening and I wouldn't take offense to it.

And secondly "small army of special prosecutors that hate him, with an unlimited budget, probing every detail of his life and a media that despises him." That's a a lot of conjecture based on your own opinion. Say nothing of the fact that you think you have a damn clue what the prosecutors motivations are other than they "hate him. You've already concluded that this investigation is unfair and they can't do their jobs...ala that judge can't rule on me. He's Mexican. So yes my friend, Trump is a victim in your eyes.

Sad!

You keep inventing and imparting to me things I’ve never said and don’t believe. No worries though and no need to respond. I’ll fade back into the shadows. Carry on with the hate.

[JWizmentality]

You highlighted the sentence in my post that you had a problem with so there should be no question as to my meaning. I said “should”, not “would”. In addition, I’ve never portrayed Trump as a victim so that too is inaccurate. But I won’t LOL at you JW, it’s not polite.

Why are you playing semantics here and being overly sensitive? I know exactly what you meant. It's the equivalent of someone loling if I said "Ted Leonsis should fire Ernie Grunfled." Wink wink nudge nudge, it aint happening and I wouldn't take offense to it.

And secondly "small army of special prosecutors that hate him, with an unlimited budget, probing every detail of his life and a media that despises him." That's a a lot of conjecture based on your own opinion. Say nothing of the fact that you think you have a damn clue what the prosecutors motivations are other than they "hate him. You've already concluded that this investigation is unfair and they can't do their jobs...ala that judge can't rule on me. He's Mexican. So yes my friend, Trump is a victim in your eyes.

Sad!

You keep inventing and imparting to me things I’ve never said and don’t believe. No worries though and no need to respond. I’ll fade back into the shadows. Carry on with the hate.

Peace ✌

I too have no interest in quoting someone and then them telling me they didn't say it. Very trumpian.

[JWizmentality]

Kim Jun Un played Trump and the MAGA dotards like a fiddle. Lol

[bealwithit]

So about that Nobel Prize...

[TGW]

just another reason why I'll never vote for a corporate democrat:

Read on Twitter

I'm sure resident Democrats in this thread will try and 'splain this one away.

[JWizmentality]

just another reason why I'll never vote for a corporate democrat:

Read on Twitter

I'm sure resident Democrats in this thread will try and 'splain this one away.

I'd never support a Democrat that won't renounce Corp/pac money.

[Zonkerbl]

Unfortunately for you guys, I read *all* the words in the article, so go sit on it. You guys are conducting the worlds most pathetic and sad witch hunt ever. You’re just embarrassing yourselves. Have some dignity and admit you were wrong the entire time, and that you elected a traitorous grifter who has literally taken all you patsies for a trillion and a half dollars. That’s “trillion” with a “t.” Oh and the 58 dead Palestinians he is directly responsible for, and the coming war with Iran which will wreck our economy once and for all, and the short, miserable lives of your grandkids who will die from pollution exposure if they don’t die from lack of health care first. And they’ll be the lucky ones because they’re white. You disgust me. You’ve disgraced our country for what? To cling to the remnants of white supremacy. It’s sickening.

Look at the Dow Jones since January. You’re going to feel that in a year or so. I hope you all lose your jobs to the Chinese he sold you out for.

A spittle-flecked incoherent rant is not an argument. The fact that you are immediately resorting to name calling proves that you have no logical response to the argument well laid out by SD20.

I pity you, and weep for the damage you and patsies like you are doing to our country. I hope you don’t start a civil war when Trump and his cronies go to jail but I will fight evil if called to serve.

[nate33]

Unfortunately for you guys, I read *all* the words in the article, so go sit on it. You guys are conducting the worlds most pathetic and sad witch hunt ever. You’re just embarrassing yourselves. Have some dignity and admit you were wrong the entire time, and that you elected a traitorous grifter who has literally taken all you patsies for a trillion and a half dollars. That’s “trillion” with a “t.” Oh and the 58 dead Palestinians he is directly responsible for, and the coming war with Iran which will wreck our economy once and for all, and the short, miserable lives of your grandkids who will die from pollution exposure if they don’t die from lack of health care first. And they’ll be the lucky ones because they’re white. You disgust me. You’ve disgraced our country for what? To cling to the remnants of white supremacy. It’s sickening.

Look at the Dow Jones since January. You’re going to feel that in a year or so. I hope you all lose your jobs to the Chinese he sold you out for.

A spittle-flecked incoherent rant is not an argument. The fact that you are immediately resorting to name calling proves that you have no logical response to the argument well laid out by SD20.

I pity you, and weep for the damage you and patsies like you are doing to our country. I hope you don’t start a civil war when Trump and his cronies go to jail but I will fight evil if called to serve.

[gtn130]

So about that Nobel Prize...

Yeah very surprising that rage tweeting about Little Rocket Man wasn't the magic elixir that would solve North Korea

[dckingsfan]

So about that Nobel Prize...

Yeah very surprising that rage tweeting about Little Rocket Man wasn't the magic elixir that would solve North Korea

So, after putting my disgust for Trump on the back burner and watching this playout, I find it interesting to see where Kim Jong-un drew his line in the sand.

He isn't going to give up his nuclear weapons but he wants the US off the Peninsula. Kim Jong-un just wanted to sit at the table as an equal.

There aren't a lot of good options here - one would be a trade embargo on China but Trump just sold that card - see ZTE.

[nate33]

It's tough to know what's going on in Israel when there is so much propaganda from BOTH sides:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[I_Like_Dirt]

just another reason why I'll never vote for a corporate democrat:

Read on Twitter

I'm sure resident Democrats in this thread will try and 'splain this one away.

While I'm sure it may seem that way at times, I'm not actually a Demecrat. That said, while voting for anyone in particular may or may not be a good idea, I'm not really sure what your point is. Given that tweet you cited doesn't talk about any particular positions or how the discussions went, I can only assume you mean that you'd only vote for someone who insulted the Prime Minister of Israel by refusing to speak with him? That doesn't seem like a particularly great strategy, but hey. Again, there are plenty of reasons to vote or not vote for anyone in particular, including Harris, but your point doesn't make any sense to me.

[gtn130]

So about that Nobel Prize...

Yeah very surprising that rage tweeting about Little Rocket Man wasn't the magic elixir that would solve North Korea

So, after putting my disgust for Trump on the back burner and watching this playout, I find it interesting to see where Kim Jong-un drew his line in the sand.

He isn't going to give up his nuclear weapons but he wants the US off the Peninsula. Kim Jong-un just wanted to sit at the table as an equal.

There aren't a lot of good options here - one would be a trade embargo on China but Trump just sold that card - see ZTE.

I don't think there was any serious breakthrough happening from the American perspective. NK is willing to come to the table now because their nuclear program is ramped up. They're obviously willing to give up things like testing because...they're done testing and don't need to test any longer!

Zero chance NK ever denuclearizes. They've seen what happened to Gaddafi. They're watching the Iran deal play out in real time. And from their view, they've benefitted tremendously from the nuclear program. They get to sit at the table now, as you pointed out.

No good options, but I don't actually see why the US needs to even be involved at this stage. NK should more or less be treated how Russia is treated.

[stilldropin20]

Watch on YouTube

Paulie is still playing chicken, hoping for a bailout from Trump. Just hope there are enough state charges for him to deal with.
The VA Judge will certainly have no basis to not do the same.

see...here we go back to that "immunity" thing Doclinkin tried to blow up our butts the other day. You want manafort to be compelled to sing against donald trump.

why do you hope there are enough state charges?

That's a serious question. You do realize that the charges against this man are tax fraud and bank fraud.

The tax fraud part is simple. Mueller claims he under reported. Something busboys, waiters, bartender, strippers, cash paid contractors do every single day in America. I dont recommened nor did i ever do it because i understood at a young age that you only harm your own borrowing power by under reporting your income...and it takes money to make money. But mueller claims he did.You thnk that makes him a horrible human being or something??? keep in mind that this is while he extensively lived in Ukraine and was paid by Ukrainian employers. Now I'm not an accountant nor a tax lawyer and I would love to hear one chime in on this but my understanding of the US tax code is that if US citizens move outside of the US for longer than 6 months they can claim their taxes in that country and pay taxes per those tax codes...which Manafort did for a number of years. Or didn't? perhaps he cheated Ukraine out of tax dollars???

Bank fraud. More conjecture on my part but this one is also simple. More simple. I'm guessing Manafort used the cash he made in Ukraine to pay cash for a house or 2 in NY. Soho. After paying cash for the houses, he then borrowed against the home. Then Took a loan out against it after he already bought it with cash. Something that is done every single day in the US. Up until 2008 banking legislation "reforms," you could simply "state" your income on a home loan if you were self-employed which manafort likely was.

But here is the tricky part. You had to "state" that you "lived in" or were "going to live in" your home that you took a loan out as a primary residence once you closed the loan. Which he he likely did. AKA "bank fraud." Or was it? I'm sure it was his primary residence in the US. Or maybe his florida home was? Frankly, its his call to make and no one else can really decide this for you but you. Now there are guidelines, perhaps even codes, and possibly laws in school districts when you have kids in public schools that direct (your decisions) on this but you have to "tell on yourself" as to which property is your primary...so long as they are not rented out to other people. This is a common practice for people with multiple homes. They decide which home is their primary residence as they purchase new homes. Once purchased, they can "move in" literally for a single day on a monday" and then move out on Tuesday and claim a new primary residence for purposes of obtaining loans on wednesday so long as they "move in" there too. Because NO ONE on planet earth, not even God himself, gets to decide where you live as your primary residence but you and your finances. And you are allowed to change your mind. . literally the next day.

And the bank loan part is what made this tricky for Mueller. or did they? Not really in this case because manafort already owned the homes outright with cash he used to purchase from the money he made in Ukraine.


The tricky part is that for tax purposes manafort had declare the money he made in ukraine in order to secure the loan. For tax purposes when manafort earned the money, he likely claimed to "live" in Ukraine at the time, which allowed him to keep his money offshore. No different than Apple corporation has kept $300 Billion(with a B) offshore in ireland for the last 5 years. and lessor amounts going back decades. As have multiple US corporations. They claim an address overseas so as to avoid stiff US income taxes.

But for his personal home loan purposes

he likely said the soho address was his primary residence.

And there you have it. "bank fraud" and "Tax fraud."

But Mueller cant have both. Its one or the other. If Manafort lived in Ukraine for tax purpose fine. Then its only bank "fraud." If manafort live in soho then its only tax fraud. The tax fraud would be much more severe. So Manafort will likely keep the residence in ukraine that he used for tax purpose and let the chips fall where they may on bank "fraud."

Whats interesting is that the charge is tax "fraud" as opposed to tax "evasion." We use "fraud" very loosely because the only real issue here stems from one single check mark on a loan application. The box marked: "do you plan on moving into the home at (such and such) address for the purposes of obtaining this loan." Manafort checked, "yes." By checking this Box, Mueller claims manafort is committing both bank fraud and tax fraud.

And thats the whole phucking case right there!!!! Tax "fraud" as opposed to evasion because he claimed a different address. This could turn into evasion if Mueller can prove manafort actually lived in the continental US as opposed to Ukraine. Which he cant. Manafort will have to tell on himself. Which he wont. So that charge is DOA. Bank fraud is trickier. If manafort was never was behind on any payments, the Bank dont care. Unless Mueller can "make" them care. Which he cant.

So you now have a judge that clearly thinks this case is a joke that is going to decide whether or not to throw the book at manafort over a box he checked on a loan document.

as for this whole thing being part of "money laundering?" thats a joke. there is no charge of money laundering (yet). and thats why its a joke so long as:

1. manafort lived in ukraine at the time.
2. and paid (or frankly didn't pay) his taxes in ukraine, he's fine as far as mueller goes. its up to ukraine to charge him on evasion(if he evaded paying taxes)..the money is still clean and already his money...so long as he lawfully earned it in Ukraine.
3. he was free to purchase any land or property in the US with his cash he earned in Ukraine. foreigners buy real estate in the US every single day. With cash. Earned overseas.

[dckingsfan]

Yeah very surprising that rage tweeting about Little Rocket Man wasn't the magic elixir that would solve North Korea

So, after putting my disgust for Trump on the back burner and watching this playout, I find it interesting to see where Kim Jong-un drew his line in the sand.

He isn't going to give up his nuclear weapons but he wants the US off the Peninsula. Kim Jong-un just wanted to sit at the table as an equal.

There aren't a lot of good options here - one would be a trade embargo on China but Trump just sold that card - see ZTE.

I don't think there was any serious breakthrough happening from the American perspective. NK is willing to come to the table now because their nuclear program is ramped up. They're obviously willing to give up things like testing because...they're done testing and don't need to test any longer!

Zero chance NK ever denuclearizes. They've seen what happened to Gaddafi. They're watching the Iran deal play out in real time. And from their view, they've benefitted tremendously from the nuclear program. They get to sit at the table now, as you pointed out.

No good options, but I don't actually see why the US needs to even be involved at this stage. NK should more or less be treated how Russia is treated.

Agreed... no win there - just same ol' same ol'

[JWizmentality]

It's tough to know what's going on in Israel when there is so much propaganda from BOTH sides:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Rather than believe videos that can neither be verified by date or context by armchair journalists. I tend to put more weight into the reports of reporters actually on the ground.

I mean seriously, what am I to take from a man playing around with a pair of crutches?

[I_Like_Dirt]

So, after putting my disgust for Trump on the back burner and watching this playout, I find it interesting to see where Kim Jong-un drew his line in the sand.

He isn't going to give up his nuclear weapons but he wants the US off the Peninsula. Kim Jong-un just wanted to sit at the table as an equal.

There aren't a lot of good options here - one would be a trade embargo on China but Trump just sold that card - see ZTE.

This was always so predictable, though. North Korea made it clear for a long time that they weren't interested in negotiating until they had nuclear weapons. The fact that they were suddenly willing to negotiate was clearly a sign that they had them - they weren't going to give them up in any realistic scenario. What they were very obviously willing to do was see what concessions they could get out of closing a nuclear test site that they didn't need anymore and that was already clearly damaged to the point of being unusable from past nuclear tests.

The interesting thing isn't what the USA will be able to get from negotiations, but South Korea is interesting. Whether or not the north has nuclear weapons isn't nearly so big a deal to them. Realistically, the idea of using nuclear weapons so close to home is much more dangerous for the North, and any particular fight would have been pretty equally dangerous for the South no matter what. If the North now is more willing to negotiate with them, great - though I'm not holding my breath, but at least I see it as a possibility now. That has nothing to do with Trump, though, good or bad. Trump does have the potential to derail things by being overly aggressive, or even to derail things by making smart moves, because who knows what the North is looking to achieve, specifically, in the short run.

As for a trade embargo on China, I'm far from Trump's biggest fan, but I don't see that as an issue, really. China would never go along with that kind of thing. Put to the test, they'd still be more interested in a shot to push dollar hegemony a little more than they would be risking millions of refugees and chaos on their border.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[nate33]

It's tough to know what's going on in Israel when there is so much propaganda from BOTH sides:

Rather than believe videos that can neither be verified by date or context by armchair journalists. I tend to put more weight into the reports of reporters actually on the ground.

I mean seriously, what am I to take from a man playing around with a pair of crutches?

You have a lot more faith in the impartiality of the news media than I. I'm not saying I believe all of the twitter videos, but I am saying that I don't take the mainstream media's reporting at face value either. There have been way too many cases of Palestinian propaganda being totally staged specifically to be picked up by the sympathetic media.