The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[bwgood77]

Lots of good stuff in that link...

I’ll say right now: If I had the No. 1 pick, Doncic would be my choice for sure. There have been people poking holes in his game, but he’s playing at the highest level possible outside of the NBA and is having remarkable success. It feels like that has been forgotten, at times, in the rush to judge players leading up to the draft.

Doncic has won at every level, and in today’s NBA — where teams are constantly trying to play smaller and with more ballhandling and spread actions, making centers more and more difficult to keep on the court — passing on him for one of the bigs on the board is something I would not do.

Pairing Doncic would Devin Booker seems like an easy call, and he would also help unlock the abilities of Josh Jackson and Dragan Bender, Phoenix’s recent top picks. He’d be a great fit with Kokoskov, and the Suns would instantly be one of the league’s most fun teams to watch.

But what will Phoenix do? Owner Robert Sarver was said to be in Belgrade, along with other Suns executives. Sarver, though, is also a huge Arizona booster — and the other player likely to be in contention for the top pick is center Deandre Ayton … who went to Arizona.

The guess here is that Phoenix takes Ayton. In that case, the Sacramento Kings — who had their own top executive, Serbian legend Vlade Divac, in Belgrade — seem like a good bet to take Doncic.

The debate about what Phoenix should do will last until the moment the Suns have to make the pick next month — and likely long after that. In my mind, though, it only has one answer: Doncic.

We’ll see if the Suns agree.

[thamadkant]

Doncic would only win an NBA championship if he was third banana to 2 other players.


He's not LeBron level....
Or MJ or even Kobe...


He's Ginobili level so he needs the Spurs type structure ... Hide him defensively and use him as third option.



The eye test is obviously showing he will not get pass faster quicker players.... Not outjump more athletic wings... He's a facilotator, play maker..... And high IQ.... Only if he was an elite shooter or athlete would he reach levels required of a first or second option player.

[bigfoot]

Lots of good stuff in that link...

I’ll say right now: If I had the No. 1 pick, Doncic would be my choice for sure. There have been people poking holes in his game, but he’s playing at the highest level possible outside of the NBA and is having remarkable success. It feels like that has been forgotten, at times, in the rush to judge players leading up to the draft.

Doncic has won at every level, and in today’s NBA — where teams are constantly trying to play smaller and with more ballhandling and spread actions, making centers more and more difficult to keep on the court — passing on him for one of the bigs on the board is something I would not do.

Pairing Doncic would Devin Booker seems like an easy call, and he would also help unlock the abilities of Josh Jackson and Dragan Bender, Phoenix’s recent top picks. He’d be a great fit with Kokoskov, and the Suns would instantly be one of the league’s most fun teams to watch.

But what will Phoenix do? Owner Robert Sarver was said to be in Belgrade, along with other Suns executives. Sarver, though, is also a huge Arizona booster — and the other player likely to be in contention for the top pick is center Deandre Ayton … who went to Arizona.

The guess here is that Phoenix takes Ayton. In that case, the Sacramento Kings — who had their own top executive, Serbian legend Vlade Divac, in Belgrade — seem like a good bet to take Doncic.

The debate about what Phoenix should do will last until the moment the Suns have to make the pick next month — and likely long after that. In my mind, though, it only has one answer: Doncic.

We’ll see if the Suns agree.

One thing I think that would be a huge advantage with Doncic is he has already seen and run Kokoskov's offensive sets. He's got a huge head start on everyone else and that would really help the Suns move towards a winning season next year.

Also, it will be interesting to see how big of a draw Doncic is going to be internationally. When it comes down to all-star voting how many European/fan votes is he going to be able to pull for both him and Booker. The Greek Freak was able to score a lot of fan votes for a small market team.

[bigfoot]

Doncic would only win an NBA championship if he was third banana to 2 other players.


He's not LeBron level....
Or MJ or even Kobe...


He's Ginobili level so he needs the Spurs type structure ... Hide him defensively and use him as third option.



The eye test is obviously showing he will not get pass faster quicker players.... Not outjump more athletic wings... He's a facilotator, play maker..... And high IQ.... Only if he was an elite shooter or athlete would he reach levels required of a first or second option player.

1) Ginobili always played in crunch time, 2) Ginobili is actually a very good defender, 3) had Ginobili been greedy and went for a max contract on another team he would have been the number one option, 4) Ginobili lead his team to an Olympic Gold medal beating the USA.

His per 36 career average is 19p/5r/5a/2s. Thing is he was a team player ... winning was more important than a huge pay day.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/olympics/games/2004-08-27-USA-ARG/

The hate for Euro players is pathetic.

[lilfishi22]

Doncic would only win an NBA championship if he was third banana to 2 other players.


He's not LeBron level....
Or MJ or even Kobe...


He's Ginobili level so he needs the Spurs type structure ... Hide him defensively and use him as third option.



The eye test is obviously showing he will not get pass faster quicker players.... Not outjump more athletic wings... He's a facilotator, play maker..... And high IQ.... Only if he was an elite shooter or athlete would he reach levels required of a first or second option player.

To be fair, even if you think Ayton is a #1 option (which I don't think he is), he still can't do it without 2 near all-star level players either.

Also given what we've seen from him and from other highly skilled players, being faster and jumping higher than your defender isn't a pre-requisite to being successful as a wing initiator. Trying to out-athlete your defender is far from the only way to beat a defender

[bwgood77]

Doncic would only win an NBA championship if he was third banana to 2 other players.

He's not LeBron level....
Or MJ or even Kobe...

He's Ginobili level so he needs the Spurs type structure ... Hide him defensively and use him as third option.

The eye test is obviously showing he will not get pass faster quicker players.... Not outjump more athletic wings... He's a facilotator, play maker..... And high IQ.... Only if he was an elite shooter or athlete would he reach levels required of a first or second option player.

He's like Manu but bigger with more power. He uses his body very well.

I don't know about third banana...he will kind of have like a Nash effect on a team but be taller and bigger so like a bigger Nash with ability to see over people...better defender, not quite as good of shooter but still have a high TS% due to getting to the line so much and hitting at high rate.

About Manu...he will probably have many similarities in his passion for the game just the fire he has...I think that passion will rub off on others and be contagious. The guy just won't give up until he wins.

I was reading this today when people brought up the Hall of Fame..

The Spurs tested him right away. During one training camp practice, Ginobili and Steve Kerr, then 37, took turns defending each other in a pick-and-roll drill with Kevin Willis setting screens. Willis, perhaps taking pity on Kerr, whiffed on a pick, prompting Mike Budenholzer, then a Spurs assistant, to scream at him.

Kerr and Ginobili switched roles, with Ginobili on defense. Willis leveled Ginobili, sending him flying onto his back. "Now that's a screen," Willis yelled to Budenholzer, players and coaches recall. He then looked down at Ginobili: "Ain't that right, rookie?"

Everyone waited for Ginobili's reaction. Even in Spurs World, foreign players had to bust stereotypes about toughness and athleticism. "There just weren't a lot of international guys who had made an impact in the NBA," Buford said. "Especially among shooting guards. There was a lot of: Is Manu real?"

"Manu didn't even flinch," Kerr said. "He got up and took it. He knew he had to earn his keep. Everyone noticed that."

The prodding never stopped. Steve Smith and Bruce Bowen battled Ginobili for minutes, and Bowen brutalized him with dirty tricks when they matched up in practice. "Bruce beat the ever-loving s--- out of him all season," Duncan said, "and it's not like they were calling fouls. Manu just kept going. That's when I finally said, 'He's gonna be alright.'"

Ginobili won Bowen over, too. In one of Ginobili's first matchups with the Lakers, Kobe Bryant sidled over to Bowen and asked about Ginobili, Bowen recalled: "Tell me about the white boy." Bowen warned Bryant, "Oh, you're gonna see. He's not a white boy, and he's got some stuff."

Ginobili carried no sense of entitlement; he outworked everyone in practice, especially during scrimmages, when he played as if it were Game 7 of the NBA Finals. Toward the end of an early September 2007 pickup game involving Spurs and visiting free agents, Ginobili dove through three players to retrieve a loose ball and flung it to a teammate. That player scored, and Popovich, watching, stopped the scrimmage even though it wasn't over.

He gathered everyone and asked them: "What does that play mean to you?" Popovich told them Ginobili wanted to win more than anyone on the floor, and that if the Spurs wished to repeat after their 2007 title, they would all need to play that hard. Popovich walked away, and everyone thought the speech was over. Suddenly, he turned: "And Manu: It's f---ing September. Never do that again in September."

Every Spur wanted to win, but no one suffered losses harder than Ginobili -- especially when he felt at fault. After Sanchez's team, Panathinaikos, beat Ginobili's in the 2002 Euroleague final, Ginobili didn't leave his house for a week, Sanchez remembers. In Game 7 of the 2006 Western Conference semifinals against Dallas, Ginobili carried San Antonio to a 3-point lead in the waning seconds before inexplicably fouling Dirk Nowitzki on a layup; Nowitzki tied the game, the Mavs won in overtime and Ginobili was inconsolable. He felt he had cost Michael Finley and Fabricio Oberto, the Golden Generation center who signed in San Antonio largely because of Ginobili, their best shot at an NBA title.

Duncan was so worried, he contacted Malik Rose, a former Spur and close friend of Ginobili's, and asked Rose to call and check on him. "I don't say this lightly, but we all told each other: We have to stick with Manu," said Sean Marks, the Nets GM and a Spurs reserve that season. "We had to talk him off the ledge. We had everyone calling, texting, trying to hang out with him."

He moped all summer. "I don't think I've ever seen a person so hard on himself," Buford said. "He is maybe the greatest competitor that we have ever witnessed here."

The grizzled skeptics respected how hot the fire burned in Ginobili even during his rookie season, and they grew to love him for it

"People always ask me who was hardest to guard," Raja Bell said. "I say Kobe. That is what people want to hear. But the truth is, it might have been Manu. He'd rev it to fourth gear, get by you, take it back to second gear so you'd run into him, and then he'd make a crazy floater. I made a living studying offensive players. I couldn't figure him out."

"He plays between dribbles," said Dennis Lindsey, the Jazz GM who spent a half-decade in San Antonio. "The creativity is mind-boggling."

"Manu isn't built for heavy starter minutes," said Chip Engelland, a longtime Spurs assistant. "He plays at double speed. If the NBA had a 35-game season, like college, he'd be one of the 10 greatest players ever."

Ginobili invented specific NBA passes, or at least twisted pre-existing ones so they became entirely his own. He baked the meanest no-look dishes since Magic Johnson, but for the spread pick-and-roll era. Ginobili slithers around a screen, rises to pass, stares at an open shooter on the weak side -- and at the exact moment the defender leans that way, plops a no-looker to his screener rolling free to the rim: (video)

A lot more good stuff in that article..

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17262551/manu-ginobili-built-legacy-love-team-storied-career

I think Doncic will have the same passion and iq, vision, etc, but like people have said, and currently have the athleticism like Gordon Hayward and I think his winning mentality and fire will just rub off on other players as well as his passing making everyone better.

[bigfoot]

Funny thing is this wouldn't even be an argument about the #1 pick if Doncic played in college this year as a 18 year old ... actually almost a year younger than Ayton. He likely would have averaged a triple-double. Certainly 20 plus points per game.

[lilfishi22]

Btw I just rewatched the tape from yesterday:







Defense on Luka yesterday

- trying to tire him out with pressing through entire court
- doubling
- and in that final picture thats a bit silly but tripple team on him heh

This was a post from the Draft forum. This is the kind of defense Luka was seeing on the regular. Throw in zone D and no 3-sec rule, it's not hard to see why 16ppg (23ppg per36) is impressive, especially when you consider his stellar .583 2P%.

[kennydorglas]

By your logic how do we know that freaking grayson allen isn't a better scorer than Luka bc "they never played a minute in the nba"
STOP HIDING BEHIND THE INFORMATION WE DON'T KNOW INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE DO KNOW!!!!!!!

Oh contraire. We CAN predict which player will score more efficiently. We will never know beyond a shadow of a doubt, and there are a million ex factors like coaching behind the scenes, training, work ethic, and injuries, but we can make arguments and we can get close. We KNOW what makes a successful scorer in the NBA today, and we can judge players based on how well they fit that rubric. For instance, a point guard that isn't good in the pnr will likely struggle, while a big man that lacks a motor will as well. One of the best singular stats for predicting how well a scorer a player can be is FTAs. A player that gets to the line often shows that he can get in positions that are disadvantageous to the defense. Getting to the line is so good for scorers bc it breeds consistency, taking a bunch of easy shots there instead of contested ones. When I point out that Luka gets to the line at a better rate than Ayton, it is direct evidence that suggests Luka will be a better scorer. He fits that rubric of high volume FT shooters. What you did is throw out the entire book of basketball theory because "none of know for sure". Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water.

s

First of all dont yell at me in all caps like a little kid and second of all if we could predict it all there would never be any draft busts, Donovan Mitchell wouldnt have went 13th in last years draft or Booker 13th before that. The greatest QB of all time would not have gone on in the 6th round and so on and so on. Again you are making assumptions for which you have no idea what will or will not happen.

Don't get hurt by a few capital letters like a little kid then.
There are rules and exceptions to rules. Look at the past few drafts and you'll find that the higher the picks go, the more likely the star. There were strange and unpredictable happenstances for Fultz but I was warning this board of the Lonzo stock bubble because I saw obvious holes in his game. GMs are wrong more often than you know and take players based off pressure and hype like anyone else. Some programs scout extremely well and consistently fish players out of the ether of the second round (Spurs) and that isn't an accident. The draft isn't a total crapshoot and is somewhat predictable if you know what to look for. There is a reason Jayson Tatum showed he was going to be a star - He was in the 99th percentile low post and 91st in high post scoring, on massive usage in largely 1- v-1 situations. We can see all of that and recognize why he should be taken at the top of the draft, and because Danny Ainge's cunning is backed by a tremendous coaching staff, he understood why Tatum was his guy.
One thing you miss is how scouts evolve their scouting methods based on past mistakes. Booker and Mitchell were taken as late sleepers for a reason; Mitchell was overlooked as a name behind a load of big name point guards - Booker for his minuscule role on a ridiculously loaded squad. But the funny thing is that if you go back and take a look at Booker's high school tape, you see him look a little more like the rookie we got than the freshman displayed as a sixth man in Kentucky's juggernaut squad:

Watch on YouTube

In some cases, GMs and scouts overlook players because of names that were touted for years are going up against players that may be just as good now, but developed late and lacked the same pedigree. In others, GMs don't see a players true value because he is trapped in a system as a bench player, even though overlooked high school footage hinted otherwise. We know why Mitch and Book are great, but the question is whether a few select men in high pressure situations see that - in time.

And Luka is likewise great. He passes all tests in terms of IQ, pedigree, production. It is a matter of whether one man in a high pressure situation sees that.

In this video he probably made more unassisted shots than in his entire frosh year in UK. LOL
Good find.

[bigfoot]

Doncic would only win an NBA championship if he was third banana to 2 other players.

He's not LeBron level....
Or MJ or even Kobe...

He's Ginobili level so he needs the Spurs type structure ... Hide him defensively and use him as third option.

The eye test is obviously showing he will not get pass faster quicker players.... Not outjump more athletic wings... He's a facilotator, play maker..... And high IQ.... Only if he was an elite shooter or athlete would he reach levels required of a first or second option player.

He's like Manu but bigger with more power. He uses his body very well.

I don't know about third banana...he will kind of have like a Nash effect on a team but be taller and bigger so like a bigger Nash with ability to see over people...better defender, not quite as good of shooter but still have a high TS% due to getting to the line so much and hitting at high rate.

About Manu...he will probably have many similarities in his passion for the game just the fire he has...I think that passion will rub off on others and be contagious. The guy just won't give up until he wins.

I was reading this today when people brought up the Hall of Fame..

The Spurs tested him right away. During one training camp practice, Ginobili and Steve Kerr, then 37, took turns defending each other in a pick-and-roll drill with Kevin Willis setting screens. Willis, perhaps taking pity on Kerr, whiffed on a pick, prompting Mike Budenholzer, then a Spurs assistant, to scream at him.

Kerr and Ginobili switched roles, with Ginobili on defense. Willis leveled Ginobili, sending him flying onto his back. "Now that's a screen," Willis yelled to Budenholzer, players and coaches recall. He then looked down at Ginobili: "Ain't that right, rookie?"

Everyone waited for Ginobili's reaction. Even in Spurs World, foreign players had to bust stereotypes about toughness and athleticism. "There just weren't a lot of international guys who had made an impact in the NBA," Buford said. "Especially among shooting guards. There was a lot of: Is Manu real?"

"Manu didn't even flinch," Kerr said. "He got up and took it. He knew he had to earn his keep. Everyone noticed that."

The prodding never stopped. Steve Smith and Bruce Bowen battled Ginobili for minutes, and Bowen brutalized him with dirty tricks when they matched up in practice. "Bruce beat the ever-loving s--- out of him all season," Duncan said, "and it's not like they were calling fouls. Manu just kept going. That's when I finally said, 'He's gonna be alright.'"

Ginobili won Bowen over, too. In one of Ginobili's first matchups with the Lakers, Kobe Bryant sidled over to Bowen and asked about Ginobili, Bowen recalled: "Tell me about the white boy." Bowen warned Bryant, "Oh, you're gonna see. He's not a white boy, and he's got some stuff."

Ginobili carried no sense of entitlement; he outworked everyone in practice, especially during scrimmages, when he played as if it were Game 7 of the NBA Finals. Toward the end of an early September 2007 pickup game involving Spurs and visiting free agents, Ginobili dove through three players to retrieve a loose ball and flung it to a teammate. That player scored, and Popovich, watching, stopped the scrimmage even though it wasn't over.

He gathered everyone and asked them: "What does that play mean to you?" Popovich told them Ginobili wanted to win more than anyone on the floor, and that if the Spurs wished to repeat after their 2007 title, they would all need to play that hard. Popovich walked away, and everyone thought the speech was over. Suddenly, he turned: "And Manu: It's f---ing September. Never do that again in September."

Every Spur wanted to win, but no one suffered losses harder than Ginobili -- especially when he felt at fault. After Sanchez's team, Panathinaikos, beat Ginobili's in the 2002 Euroleague final, Ginobili didn't leave his house for a week, Sanchez remembers. In Game 7 of the 2006 Western Conference semifinals against Dallas, Ginobili carried San Antonio to a 3-point lead in the waning seconds before inexplicably fouling Dirk Nowitzki on a layup; Nowitzki tied the game, the Mavs won in overtime and Ginobili was inconsolable. He felt he had cost Michael Finley and Fabricio Oberto, the Golden Generation center who signed in San Antonio largely because of Ginobili, their best shot at an NBA title.

Duncan was so worried, he contacted Malik Rose, a former Spur and close friend of Ginobili's, and asked Rose to call and check on him. "I don't say this lightly, but we all told each other: We have to stick with Manu," said Sean Marks, the Nets GM and a Spurs reserve that season. "We had to talk him off the ledge. We had everyone calling, texting, trying to hang out with him."

He moped all summer. "I don't think I've ever seen a person so hard on himself," Buford said. "He is maybe the greatest competitor that we have ever witnessed here."

The grizzled skeptics respected how hot the fire burned in Ginobili even during his rookie season, and they grew to love him for it

"People always ask me who was hardest to guard," Raja Bell said. "I say Kobe. That is what people want to hear. But the truth is, it might have been Manu. He'd rev it to fourth gear, get by you, take it back to second gear so you'd run into him, and then he'd make a crazy floater. I made a living studying offensive players. I couldn't figure him out."

"He plays between dribbles," said Dennis Lindsey, the Jazz GM who spent a half-decade in San Antonio. "The creativity is mind-boggling."

"Manu isn't built for heavy starter minutes," said Chip Engelland, a longtime Spurs assistant. "He plays at double speed. If the NBA had a 35-game season, like college, he'd be one of the 10 greatest players ever."

Ginobili invented specific NBA passes, or at least twisted pre-existing ones so they became entirely his own. He baked the meanest no-look dishes since Magic Johnson, but for the spread pick-and-roll era. Ginobili slithers around a screen, rises to pass, stares at an open shooter on the weak side -- and at the exact moment the defender leans that way, plops a no-looker to his screener rolling free to the rim: (video)

A lot more good stuff in that article..

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17262551/manu-ginobili-built-legacy-love-team-storied-career

I think Doncic will have the same passion and iq, vision, etc, but like people have said, be a better athlete like Gordon Hayward and I think his winning mentality and fire will just rub off on other players as well as his passing making everyone better.

This is great stuff. The fire in the belly ... steely eyes ... just that grit that very few players have. You see it ooze from Doncic. Some people are just born with it ... that will to win.

[Villalobos]

I'm gonna post this vid every time someone says Doncic is a better athlete than Ginobili. Ginobili had hops and was fast as hell when he was young. Doncic doesn't play (athletically) anything like this:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Manu's one of my favorite players ever. Gonna kill me if the Suns pass over a bigger (though less athletic) version of him.

[sunsbum]

So "basketball IQ" is racist now? 2018 timeline is the worst.

[Kerrsed]

Wait......Ginobili is 1st ballot Hall-of-Famer Material???

Not a chance!

Oh he will probably make it, its just going to take a long while for him to do so.

Ya crazy if you don't think Ginobili is a 1st ballot HOF. His resume is rock solid with 4 NBA titles, all NBA teams, all star teams, 6MOY, Euroleague champ, Euroleague Finals MVP oh and might I add an Olympic medal in 2004.

The only reason he will be 1st ballot is because of his Euro credentials.

As for his NBA career, look at the list of people still trying to get in to the HOF.

Ben Wallace/Kempton/Tim Hardaway/Mo Cheeks/Westphal/Tomjanovich/Laimbeer .......i can go on and on and on.

Walter Davis.....Kevin Johnson....Chris Webber....Steve Kerr......

[lilfishi22]

I'm gonna post this vid every time someone says Doncic is a better athlete than Ginobili. Ginobili had hops and was fast as hell when he was young. Doncic doesn't play (athletically) anything like this:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Manu's one of my favorite players ever. Gonna kill me if the Suns pass over a bigger (though less athletic) version of him.

But he is bigger, he's moves very well for his 6-8, 6-9 230lb frame, has legit guard skills, BBIQ and the passion to have a similar impact as Manu. There's just too much stock put into athleticism and physique on this board imo and clearly not enough on high basketball IQ and intangibles.

It's a very familiar conversation I feel like

"Imagine if Chriss had great basketball IQ"
"Imagine if Bender was more aggressive and played with fire"
"Imagine if Archie could learn to shoot"
"Imagine if Booker had a better understanding of defensive fundamentals"
"Imagine if Jackson could play with more finesse"
"Imagine if Len had started learning how to play basketball earlier"
"Imagine if Ulis was just a bit taller"

Right now we're talking about a guy who's been praised as having one of the highest if not the highest bbiq in the draft, he clearly has the aggressiveness and passion, has a great and translatable shooting form, above average defensive fundamentals, plays with both finesse and power when appropriate, starting playing basketball and was coached since he was a toddler and has legit NBA size.

[Villalobos]

But he is bigger, he's moves very well for his 6-8, 6-9 230lb frame, has legit guard skills, BBIQ and the passion to have a similar impact as Manu. There's just too much stock put into athleticism and physique on this board imo and clearly not enough on high basketball IQ and intangibles.

It's a very familiar conversation I feel like

"Imagine if Chriss had great basketball IQ"
"Imagine if Bender was more aggressive and played with fire"
"Imagine if Archie could learn to shoot"
"Imagine if Booker had a better understanding of defensive fundamentals"
"Imagine if Jackson could play with more finesse"
"Imagine if Len had started learning how to play basketball earlier"
"Imagine if Ulis was just a bit taller"

Right now we're talking about a guy who's been praised as having one of the highest if not the highest bbiq in the draft, he clearly has the aggressiveness and passion, has a great and translatable shooting form, above average defensive fundamentals, plays with both finesse and power when appropriate, starting playing basketball and was coached since he was a toddler and has legit NBA size.

I'm only debunking the "he's a more athletic Ginobili" claim I keep seeing. It isn't close to being true. The rest of the similarities are spot on and why I'm very high on him and want him on the Suns.

[timetoshinebaby]

So "basketball IQ" is racist now? 2018 timeline is the worst.

Yes apparently. I also think it should be racist to suggest Doncic has poor athleticism. How dare you all say that?!?!

[Sunsfan12]

I'm gonna post this vid every time someone says Doncic is a better athlete than Ginobili. Ginobili had hops and was fast as hell when he was young. Doncic doesn't play (athletically) anything like this:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Manu's one of my favorite players ever. Gonna kill me if the Suns pass over a bigger (though less athletic) version of him.

But he is bigger, he's moves very well for his 6-8, 6-9 230lb frame, has legit guard skills, BBIQ and the passion to have a similar impact as Manu. There's just too much stock put into athleticism and physique on this board imo and clearly not enough on high basketball IQ and intangibles.

It's a very familiar conversation I feel like

"Imagine if Chriss had great basketball IQ"
"Imagine if Bender was more aggressive and played with fire"
"Imagine if Archie could learn to shoot"
"Imagine if Booker had a better understanding of defensive fundamentals"
"Imagine if Jackson could play with more finesse"
"Imagine if Len had started learning how to play basketball earlier"
"Imagine if Ulis was just a bit taller"

Right now we're talking about a guy who's been praised as having one of the highest if not the highest bbiq in the draft, he clearly has the aggressiveness and passion, has a great and translatable shooting form, above average defensive fundamentals, plays with both finesse and power when appropriate, starting playing basketball and was coached since he was a toddler and has legit NBA size.

Sounds to me like you’re discribing LeBron James

[Villalobos]

Sounds to me like you’re discribing LeBron James

Maybe like a 34+ year old LeBron as he loses his athleticism. Which will still be a really good player.

[bigfoot]

So "basketball IQ" is racist now? 2018 timeline is the worst.

Yes apparently. I also think it should be racist to suggest Doncic has poor athleticism. How dare you all say that?!?!

Please oh please put in a name change request

[kennydorglas]

Luka definitely has that 'looking off my target' ability from Ginobili.
You can see in the majority of his assists, he just manipulates the defense and find his guy withou much of fancy passes.
He just plays the game in the right way.