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The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

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Ayton vs Doncic, Who you picking?

Ayton all the way!
109
53%
Definitely Doncic!
98
47%
 
Total votes: 207

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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#961 » by jcsunsfan » Tue May 22, 2018 3:50 pm

Bob8 wrote:
TheLogician wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
I really tried to have serious and respectful conversation. It’s obvious that you are in very hostile mood. And I’m smart enough to know, when to stop. Maybe you should google and see what Real Madrid represents in sport and business, but I guess that won’t change your conviction.


As did I, but we can ignore each other from now on. I'm well aware of Real Madrid as a brand. It's best not to conflate football (soccer) with basketball, though.


There's only Real Madrid C.F. https://www.realmadrid.com/en

No College can be even compared to Basketball section of Real Madrid.

Just watch in this video, what's Real Madrid in comparison to some Nba clubs, as institution and organization. You don't need to watch the whole thing, just from 4.30 on.



Oh my goodness. Sacramento and Phoenix are dumpster fires, so he should go to Cleveland. Yikes.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#962 » by 8on » Tue May 22, 2018 3:50 pm

bigfoot wrote:
dantley4prez wrote:
Bob8 wrote:What do you think conversation would have been, if Doncic was local boy and Ayton Euro? Who would be drafted by Suns?


I want to say this again:

It doesn’t matter what you did in the Euroleague or Division I.

It matters what we think you’ll do in the NBA.


Very true and we have not seen anything of Ayton playing against NBA players. He could be a complete bust with lack of motor and questionable defense.

We have seen Doncic play against NBA players. Those who now play in Euroleauge and also in friendly games against full-NBA teams (OKC). I'm surprised that people don't respond at some level of amazement about Doncic's highlights in the friendly game from October 2016 against OKC.

The kid was 17 years old and competing against NBA players. Watch the video and check out the boxscore. Then think about a 17 year playing against Westbrook (27), Oladipo (24), Sabonis (20), Adams (22) and other much older NBA talent. Real NBA talent. Plus the Real Madrid team won the game. Doncic played 18 minutes with 3pts/5rbs/4asts at 17 freaking years old. Ayton wouldn't have even sniffed the floor at 17 in that game.

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400897113


Forgot to mention:

Three points is not something to brag about.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#963 » by Mjee » Tue May 22, 2018 3:55 pm

jsierra1985 wrote:all this talk from fans which is understandable...possible trades and what ifs but the reality is Ayton will be a sun...no way they pass on him...



Ryan is not passing on a big man who could eventually average over 20 and 10 a night. Once Deandre comes to PHX for his interview and workout its game over fellas.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#964 » by Sunsfan12 » Tue May 22, 2018 3:57 pm

dantley4prez wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
dantley4prez wrote:
I want to say this again:

It doesn’t matter what you did in the Euroleague or Division I.

It matters what we think you’ll do in the NBA.


Very true and we have not seen anything of Ayton playing against NBA players. He could be a complete bust with lack of motor and questionable defense.

We have seen Doncic play against NBA players. Those who now play in Euroleauge and also in friendly games against full-NBA teams (OKC). I'm surprised that people don't respond at some level of amazement about Doncic's highlights in the friendly game from October 2016 against OKC.

The kid was 17 years old and competing against NBA players. Watch the video and check out the boxscore. Then think about a 17 year playing against Westbrook (27), Oladipo (24), Sabonis (20), Adams (22) and other much older NBA talent. Real NBA talent. Plus the Real Madrid team won the game. Doncic played 18 minutes with 3pts/5rbs/4asts at 17 freaking years old. Ayton wouldn't have even sniffed the floor at 17 in that game.

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400897113


Forgot to mention:

Three points is not something to brag about.


4 assists and 5 rebounds in 18 minutes plus a win against an NBA team at 17 years old is.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#965 » by Superhuman » Tue May 22, 2018 3:57 pm


Nice read. I found this quote interesting.
He had added 20 pounds of muscle to his frame during his first two months on campus -- he never lifted weights before college -- and he'd reduced his body fat percentage from 13 percent to 7 percent.

Ayton clearly has the work ethic and drive to make it in the NBA. I don't know how much people here bodybuild but it takes insane work ethic from watching what you put in your mouth to how much time you spend in the gym. From that article it's clear Ayton wants to be a superstar. If Ayton can translate that same work ethic to getting better at defense, he'd be a monster. And the article mentioned he idolizes Kevin Garnett. If he trains with Garnett he'll learn what he needs to do to become a superstar, which is becoming better at defense.

When you look at Doncic, it's clear he hasn't been in the weight room much. And I'm not saying he's overweight but spending a couple years alone in Madrid, he might've picked up some bad eating habits from the delicious tapas to fast foods like Mcdonalds. Can't say I blame him. But imagine if Doncic had the same habits as Ayton, Doncic could be a monster. If he gained some muscle and burned fat he could be more faster and athletic. That could be **** scary. Thing is, we don't know if his lack of athleticism is due to his conditioning and eating habits, or if he's just always going to be like that. And when he's in the NBA he'll have to spend a lot of time in the weight room which takes away time working on his weaknesses on the court like defense.

And the obvious counterargument of, "He's spent the past 18 months playing proffessional basketball" is kind of a lazy argument. He's not playing basketball 24 hours a day 7 days a week. He still has time to go in the weight room. And he has the time and money to eat healthy too.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#966 » by TheFire » Tue May 22, 2018 3:58 pm

bigfoot wrote:
dantley4prez wrote:
Bob8 wrote:What do you think conversation would have been, if Doncic was local boy and Ayton Euro? Who would be drafted by Suns?


I want to say this again:

It doesn’t matter what you did in the Euroleague or Division I.

It matters what we think you’ll do in the NBA.


Very true and we have not seen anything of Ayton playing against NBA players. He could be a complete bust with lack of motor and questionable defense.

We have seen Doncic play against NBA players. Those who now play in Euroleauge and also in friendly games against full-NBA teams (OKC). I'm surprised that people don't respond at some level of amazement about Doncic's highlights in the friendly game from October 2016 against OKC.

The kid was 17 years old and competing against NBA players. Watch the video and check out the boxscore. Then think about a 17 year playing against Westbrook (27), Oladipo (24), Sabonis (20), Adams (22) and other much older NBA talent. Real NBA talent. Plus the Real Madrid team won the game. Doncic played 18 minutes with 3pts/5rbs/4asts at 17 freaking years old. Ayton wouldn't have even sniffed the floor at 17 in that game.

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400897113


Thanks for sharing. He's definitely faster than people give him credit for. I was impressed by how easy he blew by Oladipo at 1:47, who's one of the most athletic perimeter players in the league.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#967 » by Bob8 » Tue May 22, 2018 3:59 pm

dantley4prez wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
dantley4prez wrote:
I want to say this again:

It doesn’t matter what you did in the Euroleague or Division I.

It matters what we think you’ll do in the NBA.


Very true and we have not seen anything of Ayton playing against NBA players. He could be a complete bust with lack of motor and questionable defense.

We have seen Doncic play against NBA players. Those who now play in Euroleauge and also in friendly games against full-NBA teams (OKC). I'm surprised that people don't respond at some level of amazement about Doncic's highlights in the friendly game from October 2016 against OKC.

The kid was 17 years old and competing against NBA players. Watch the video and check out the boxscore. Then think about a 17 year playing against Westbrook (27), Oladipo (24), Sabonis (20), Adams (22) and other much older NBA talent. Real NBA talent. Plus the Real Madrid team won the game. Doncic played 18 minutes with 3pts/5rbs/4asts at 17 freaking years old. Ayton wouldn't have even sniffed the floor at 17 in that game.

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400897113


Forgot to mention:

Three points is not something to brag about.


The game was 2 years ago. This is second year of HS and he was playing vs. Nba team . Doncic is born in 1999 by the way. I’m sure every american kid that young would brag about, if he was just on the bench.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#968 » by gaspar » Tue May 22, 2018 4:01 pm

darealjuice wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
darealjuice wrote:Lol are you really going to blame Sarver because you wouldn’t like Ayton being picked over Doncic?

If he's basing his decision on putting butts in seats over choosing the best prospect then it's a terrible basketball decision.


We're never going to know the reasoning behind their decision, so lining up straw men to attack before the draft happens seems pointless. We'll have the staunch portion of the Doncic base in here grumbling about Sarver even if Ayton is picked because the Suns think he's the better prospect lol.

If the Suns fan's personal Boogeyman is trying to put butts in the seats, then he should be picking the best prospect. The #1 pick has helped sell some season tickets, but the excitement of the #1 pick and gimmick appeal of a UA prospect wears off quickly if they aren't contributing like the players drafted around them. The only way to put and keep butts of the fairweather Phoenix fanbase in the seats of Talking Stick is to have sustainable competitive basketball, and not getting this pick right risks a very long period of apathy from Suns fans.

So much this. If Ayton doesn't reach his potential, no one will give a single **** where he went to college. No one will buy tickets just because the Suns have a UofA alumnus on the roster. In 2010-11 and 2011-12 the Suns had Steve Nash playing at an All-Star level and another beloved player in Grant Hill on the roster and no one wanted to watch them play because they weren't competitive enough. Winning product sells tickets, no matter what race and background the players are.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#969 » by bhawk » Tue May 22, 2018 4:02 pm




That is a great piece of writing. It is a MUST read for the new face of the PHX Suns!

Some quotes from the article:

"He almost has a supernatural strength," Miller said. "His mobility is incredible. His love for the game and his intelligence are shocking to me. A lot of times when you're that big, you just have to play basketball. I can't say enough about how smart he is. And I think that's going to serve him well. He's a talent like I haven't seen before."

"You know who he is? Physically, he's like Dwight Howard but more developed at that age," said one NBA scout who has watched Ayton multiple times this season. "But he shoots 3-pointers. He's Dwight with a 3-ball. How crazy is that? We haven't seen anybody with that combination. He moves like a 6-5 dude. He's a guy who will make an impact on day one. He's a franchise-changer."

"I just have a hard time believing there is anybody better than [Ayton]," Miller said that evening.

"I will dive on the floor for a loose ball," Ayton said. "That's how I'm trained. I can guard a guard if I want to. That's just that price. I'm not gonna sit here and let you score on me. That's in my blood."

Most opponents send an extra defender or two to help on Ayton. That's why the team shoots 39.2 percent from the 3-point line when he's on the floor and just 34 percent when he's on the bench, according to HoopLens.com. (think about Booker here - OMG)

Love his humble beginnings: "Most people say they're in poverty because they've got a little Android [phone]," Ayton said. "Those people [in the Bahamas] don't have phones. No house phones. People live in wood houses, straw houses. No electricity and barely any water, even though we're surrounded by water. My mom and dad, they really did a good job because they did their best to not show us that part of the world."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are some serious and passionate Doncic supporters... and Doncic does look like an awesome prospect who will do well in the NBA. BUT there is no way in this crazy world that McD and Sarver draft Doncic over Ayton. Ayton simply has too much potential. He is generational. He is a physical outlier that we have not seen in decades.

Since the 2010 draft there is one player, maybe, who would have been drafted ahead of DeAndre Ayton. That player is Anthony Davis in 2012. Some may say Simmons, Towns or Irving... but if Ayton were in those drafts, I think he still would have been #1.

This thread is Ayton vs. Doncic. It is not close. Ayton is the #1 pick for all of the reasons we have beaten to death. You can NOT pass on his current day physical gifts, skills and his future potential in the NBA.

One thing that hasn't been discussed enough is Ayton's fit in PHX. Booker will get a vote. Jackson will too. They have kind of already voted. McD and Sarver will look at team chemistry and draft the local kid with collegiate experience who plays a position of need on our current roster.

There are more potential chemistry issues with Doncic than with Ayton. Consider an old quote from Booker around the time of the Bender draft year, that he prefers NCAA experienced players vs. unproven foreign players. Don't ask me for the link... maybe someone else can post it?

Hope this has helped a little bit. The Doncic talk is cute and all... but reality is Ayton will be our pick. It. Makes. Too. Much. Sense.

Let's all welcome our newest franchise player - DeAndre Ayton - with open arms as PHX Suns fans.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#970 » by bigfoot » Tue May 22, 2018 4:06 pm

JMac1 wrote:
DRK wrote:
dantley4prez wrote:I ask myself to be critical, so I did some more reading. I need a little more Luka in my life, but here’s what I found out about Ayton:

there are moments that came frequently enough during the season where he couldn’t make an 8 footer, didn’t have the right touch around the basket. there were nights he wouldn’t be proud of.

then there’s this. 32 pts on 16 shots. he made 13 of them. most of them were at least 6 feet away:


I’m still impressed. They say no one works harder than DA. If that’s true, he can be an absolute monster. If he can do that, now, imagine what he can do at 21?

He could average 30 in this league. I firmly believe that. He’s not there yet, but there are flashes of Kevin Durant-ness where he just doesn’t miss.

I promise you guys I will watch as much Luka as I can.



Alot of them were against a zone defence that is lacking in coverage around the 15-18 feet area. I dont disagree that Ayton has a nice stroke from that range, forgive me that highlight video isnt blowing me away by watching Ayton get easy points against a zone defence.
Im tossing and turning between Ayton and Doncic, and to be honest, Im leaning Doncic over Ayton.

To me, Ayton reminds me of a JJ Hickson with a low post game... is that comparison totally wrong?


There easy point because he is making shots. That’s the point isn’t? Make open shots.

It’s funny. Ayton just dominates inside and out and you hear, well he is bigger or those guys aren’t good. How does any college player dominate?

I’m struggling to understand the knock on him for being too good or making it look too easy.


I'm not even sure Ayton is #2 on my board. He can shoot and rebound most certainly. His face up game, rebounding, and free throw shooting excite me the most and definitely translate to the NBA.

Against better NBA talent his ball handling in the post is not going to hold up until he gets 2-3 years under his belt. He will struggle just earning position for the post up and then ball handling coupled with holding position will be difficult against players his size.

While I love his face up game, he hasn't shown the aggressiveness I would like in terms of face up and then driving by his defender for ferocious slams at the rim like Amare. He seems to have the physical body but again lacks the ball handling and desire? to get to the rim. Could be easier for him when he is matched up against slower big men.

His lack of defensive intensity is probably the most frightening thing. Standing around watching when he could impact the play. I hope that can be untrained but honestly I don't think it can be. It's just the BBIQ ability to see the play unfolding and reacting in time. That quality is so hard to measure other than by visually watching the player in games. Len never acquired that talent in five years of play for the Suns. It may be the most unteachable part of the game. Either you have it or don't.

What I see in Ayton is a player who has half the abilities we need (Scoring, Rebounding, Athleticism) to be a superstar. He needs defense, vision/passing, and BBIQ which are harder to get. With Doncic he checks off more of the abilities to be a superstar, maybe only lacking elite athleticism.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#971 » by Bob8 » Tue May 22, 2018 4:12 pm

Superhuman wrote:

Nice read. I found this quote interesting.
He had added 20 pounds of muscle to his frame during his first two months on campus -- he never lifted weights before college -- and he'd reduced his body fat percentage from 13 percent to 7 percent.

Ayton clearly has the work ethic and drive to make it in the NBA. I don't know how much people here bodybuild but it takes insane work ethic from watching what you put in your mouth to how much time you spend in the gym. From that article it's clear Ayton wants to be a superstar. If Ayton can translate that same work ethic to getting better at defense, he'd be a monster. And the article mentioned he idolizes Kevin Garnett. If he trains with Garnett he'll learn what he needs to do to become a superstar, which is becoming better at defense.

When you look at Doncic, it's clear he hasn't been in the weight room much. And I'm not saying he's overweight but spending a couple years alone in Madrid, he might've picked up some bad eating habits from the delicious tapas to fast foods like Mcdonalds. Can't say I blame him. But imagine if Doncic had the same habits as Ayton, Doncic could be a monster. If he gained some muscle and burned fat he could be more faster and athletic. That could be **** scary. Thing is, we don't know if his lack of athleticism is due to his conditioning and eating habits, or if he's just always going to be like that. And when he's in the NBA he'll have to spend a lot of time in the weight room which takes away time working on his weaknesses on the court like defense.

And the obvious counterargument of, "He's spent the past 18 months playing proffessional basketball" is kind of a lazy argument. He's not playing basketball 24 hours a day 7 days a week. He still has time to go in the weight room. And he has the time and money to eat healthy too.


In Europe young players just don’t lift weights. I don’t know why, maybe because of shooting training, but they just don’t. He has very big room for improvement there. And you’re right, he lived alone for some years and got some bad eating habits. He lives from basketball from his childhood, I’m 100% sure he will lose some fat and gain muscle. Every Euro did that.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/euroleague/673295/luka-doncics-average-day/

Mcdonald’s. :lol:

It’s interesting how good Ft shooter he is 735 without a miss is impressive. Carroll is probably the best pure shooter in Europe.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#972 » by Blonde » Tue May 22, 2018 4:15 pm

One of the number one things I see people say about Ayton is that he’s going to come in and average 20 and 10. Why is this so alluring? Kanter put up 19 and 11, Okafor put up 18 and 7 as a rookie, Brook Lopez, Zach Randolph, Vucevic all put up similar numbers. Even Cousins put up tremendous numbers but has never been a winning player his whole career. I fully expect Ayton to average 20/10 but that doesn’t mean anything as far as how he contributes to winning.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#973 » by bhawk » Tue May 22, 2018 4:16 pm

In a draft without Ayton, Doncic would not be a lock vs. the likes of Bagley, Porter, JJJ and Trae Young. Look no further than the recent articles that have Sacramento and Atlanta potentially passing on Luka.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#974 » by TheLogician » Tue May 22, 2018 4:20 pm

Bob8 wrote:
dantley4prez wrote:
Bob8 wrote:What do you think conversation would have been, if Doncic was local boy and Ayton Euro? Who would be drafted by Suns?


Who could’ve done anything to stop Ayton in the Euroleague? Is there one center he would have to worry about? I don’t know; I’m sincerely asking.


if he came to Real directly from HS, he wouldn't do anything. Everything is too different that even experienced players coming from Nba suffer In first season. Game is faster than in NCAA, much more physical, many tactical variations, different rules and players are bigger and stronger. Real has 3 players 6.11 or more.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/teams/showteam?clubcode=mad&seasoncode=E2017

The biggest problem is that nobody will wait for you to understand offensive and defensive plays. Nobody cares how good prospect you are, if veteran is better he gets the minutes and you don't. In clubs like Real only wins and titles matters. Ayton should have come in Europe few years before and in that case the story would be different, like Luka came with 13 years.


Doncic didn't do anything for Real until this season. He improved incrementally, gained confidence, and finally broke out, exactly as Ayton would in that scenario. I think you are overestimating Luka's ability as a rookie. There is a steep learning curve in the NBA even though he has been a professional since an early age. As has been stated, his conditioning will need to improve and he will need to fix the holes in his game.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#975 » by bigfoot » Tue May 22, 2018 4:20 pm

bhawk wrote:



That is a great piece of writing. It is a MUST read for the new face of the PHX Suns!

Some quotes from the article:

"He almost has a supernatural strength," Miller said. "His mobility is incredible. His love for the game and his intelligence are shocking to me. A lot of times when you're that big, you just have to play basketball. I can't say enough about how smart he is. And I think that's going to serve him well. He's a talent like I haven't seen before."

"You know who he is? Physically, he's like Dwight Howard but more developed at that age," said one NBA scout who has watched Ayton multiple times this season. "But he shoots 3-pointers. He's Dwight with a 3-ball. How crazy is that? We haven't seen anybody with that combination. He moves like a 6-5 dude. He's a guy who will make an impact on day one. He's a franchise-changer."

"I just have a hard time believing there is anybody better than [Ayton]," Miller said that evening.

"I will dive on the floor for a loose ball," Ayton said. "That's how I'm trained. I can guard a guard if I want to. That's just that price. I'm not gonna sit here and let you score on me. That's in my blood."

Most opponents send an extra defender or two to help on Ayton. That's why the team shoots 39.2 percent from the 3-point line when he's on the floor and just 34 percent when he's on the bench, according to HoopLens.com. (think about Booker here - OMG)

Love his humble beginnings: "Most people say they're in poverty because they've got a little Android [phone]," Ayton said. "Those people [in the Bahamas] don't have phones. No house phones. People live in wood houses, straw houses. No electricity and barely any water, even though we're surrounded by water. My mom and dad, they really did a good job because they did their best to not show us that part of the world."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are some serious and passionate Doncic supporters... and Doncic does look like an awesome prospect who will do well in the NBA. BUT there is no way in this crazy world that McD and Sarver draft Doncic over Ayton. Ayton simply has too much potential. He is generational. He is a physical outlier that we have not seen in decades.

Since the 2010 draft there is one player, maybe, who would have been drafted ahead of DeAndre Ayton. That player is Anthony Davis in 2012. Some may say Simmons, Towns or Irving... but if Ayton were in those drafts, I think he still would have been #1.

This thread is Ayton vs. Doncic. It is not close. Ayton is the #1 pick for all of the reasons we have beaten to death. You can NOT pass on his current day physical gifts, skills and his future potential in the NBA.

One thing that hasn't been discussed enough is Ayton's fit in PHX. Booker will get a vote. Jackson will too. They have kind of already voted. McD and Sarver will look at team chemistry and draft the local kid with collegiate experience who plays a position of need on our current roster.

There are more potential chemistry issues with Doncic than with Ayton. Consider an old quote from Booker around the time of the Bender draft year, that he prefers NCAA experienced players vs. unproven foreign players. Don't ask me for the link... maybe someone else can post it?

Hope this has helped a little bit. The Doncic talk is cute and all... but reality is Ayton will be our pick. It. Makes. Too. Much. Sense.

Let's all welcome our newest franchise player - DeAndre Ayton - with open arms as PHX Suns fans.


This right here should be worrisome for a guy being drafted at center ...

"When I started playing basketball, they always would have me at the block, and I'm like, 'Yo, I don't want to play down here,'" he said. "I want to do something else. This is not entertaining to me, and whatever the guards do, I wanted to do. In practice, I'm not doing post work. I want to dribble the ball. I want to shoot, too."
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#976 » by Mjee » Tue May 22, 2018 4:22 pm

Blonde wrote:One of the number one things I see people say about Ayton is that he’s going to come in and average 20 and 10. Why is this so alluring? Kanter put up 19 and 11, Okafor put up 18 and 7 as a rookie, Brook Lopez, Zach Randolph, Vucevic all put up similar numbers. Even Cousins put up tremendous numbers but has never been a winning player his whole career. I fully expect Ayton to average 20/10 but that doesn’t mean anything as far as how he contributes to winning.



Benders softness/lack of aggression and Marquese Chriss' lack of an inside presence offensively don't necessary scream success to me. When will be the next time we are able to add a 5 that can average over 20 and 10 ???? We are not getting any restricted free agents. Nobody is going to trade KAT, Embiid, or AD. If we continue to roll with Bender, Chriss, Old Tyson ....we will lose (Doncic or not)
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#977 » by bwgood77 » Tue May 22, 2018 4:22 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:It is ridiculos how bad are all the players that are "Top players" in the EuroLeague nowadays.

I do not think that list is something to be proud of. There are not even rotation players in the NBA in that list. But oh well, Doncic is 19 and he invented basketball...

I am interested in Shengelia as a backup or third string PF to replace Dudley if we can find a trade for him, but just because he is close to Kokoskov and he is in his prime right now.


Point of the list was to show that he is very good in drawing fouls. He's drawing 6 in only 26 minutes, Shved, who was solid player in Nba, was playing 32 minutes. But if you insist to talk about quality of players on this list, maybe you should show me a list of players Ayton has played against this year. How many players will even play professional basketball anywhere in the world? 5?;) Is my assumption that he dominated against much smaller kids than him, who will never play basketball for living correct?

It is pretty obvious that there are more ELITE players with huge upside in the NCAA than in EuroLeague.

Just imagine the talent of a team with Trae Young, both Bridges, Bagley, JJr, Ayton.....no way EuroLeague players can match that.


Sure, maybe, but Ayton didn't play against any of those guys, so his numbers were mostly against future salesmen or accountants. There probably isn't one guy at University of Buffalo who will play pro ball anywhere. He played against 5-10 guys who may get drafted of which probably only 3 or 4 make it as rotation players in the league. And even a guy like Brandon McCoy who is borderline second round to undrafted scored 33 against him.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#978 » by TheLogician » Tue May 22, 2018 4:26 pm

bigfoot wrote:
bhawk wrote:



That is a great piece of writing. It is a MUST read for the new face of the PHX Suns!

Some quotes from the article:

"He almost has a supernatural strength," Miller said. "His mobility is incredible. His love for the game and his intelligence are shocking to me. A lot of times when you're that big, you just have to play basketball. I can't say enough about how smart he is. And I think that's going to serve him well. He's a talent like I haven't seen before."

"You know who he is? Physically, he's like Dwight Howard but more developed at that age," said one NBA scout who has watched Ayton multiple times this season. "But he shoots 3-pointers. He's Dwight with a 3-ball. How crazy is that? We haven't seen anybody with that combination. He moves like a 6-5 dude. He's a guy who will make an impact on day one. He's a franchise-changer."

"I just have a hard time believing there is anybody better than [Ayton]," Miller said that evening.

"I will dive on the floor for a loose ball," Ayton said. "That's how I'm trained. I can guard a guard if I want to. That's just that price. I'm not gonna sit here and let you score on me. That's in my blood."

Most opponents send an extra defender or two to help on Ayton. That's why the team shoots 39.2 percent from the 3-point line when he's on the floor and just 34 percent when he's on the bench, according to HoopLens.com. (think about Booker here - OMG)

Love his humble beginnings: "Most people say they're in poverty because they've got a little Android [phone]," Ayton said. "Those people [in the Bahamas] don't have phones. No house phones. People live in wood houses, straw houses. No electricity and barely any water, even though we're surrounded by water. My mom and dad, they really did a good job because they did their best to not show us that part of the world."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are some serious and passionate Doncic supporters... and Doncic does look like an awesome prospect who will do well in the NBA. BUT there is no way in this crazy world that McD and Sarver draft Doncic over Ayton. Ayton simply has too much potential. He is generational. He is a physical outlier that we have not seen in decades.

Since the 2010 draft there is one player, maybe, who would have been drafted ahead of DeAndre Ayton. That player is Anthony Davis in 2012. Some may say Simmons, Towns or Irving... but if Ayton were in those drafts, I think he still would have been #1.

This thread is Ayton vs. Doncic. It is not close. Ayton is the #1 pick for all of the reasons we have beaten to death. You can NOT pass on his current day physical gifts, skills and his future potential in the NBA.

One thing that hasn't been discussed enough is Ayton's fit in PHX. Booker will get a vote. Jackson will too. They have kind of already voted. McD and Sarver will look at team chemistry and draft the local kid with collegiate experience who plays a position of need on our current roster.

There are more potential chemistry issues with Doncic than with Ayton. Consider an old quote from Booker around the time of the Bender draft year, that he prefers NCAA experienced players vs. unproven foreign players. Don't ask me for the link... maybe someone else can post it?

Hope this has helped a little bit. The Doncic talk is cute and all... but reality is Ayton will be our pick. It. Makes. Too. Much. Sense.

Let's all welcome our newest franchise player - DeAndre Ayton - with open arms as PHX Suns fans.


This right here should be worrisome for a guy being drafted at center ...

"When I started playing basketball, they always would have me at the block, and I'm like, 'Yo, I don't want to play down here,'" he said. "I want to do something else. This is not entertaining to me, and whatever the guards do, I wanted to do. In practice, I'm not doing post work. I want to dribble the ball. I want to shoot, too."


Yet if he didn't have that desire, he wouldn't be in conversation for the #1 pick.
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#979 » by Bob8 » Tue May 22, 2018 4:31 pm

bhawk wrote:



That is a great piece of writing. It is a MUST read for the new face of the PHX Suns!

Some quotes from the article:

"He almost has a supernatural strength," Miller said. "His mobility is incredible. His love for the game and his intelligence are shocking to me. A lot of times when you're that big, you just have to play basketball. I can't say enough about how smart he is. And I think that's going to serve him well. He's a talent like I haven't seen before."

"You know who he is? Physically, he's like Dwight Howard but more developed at that age," said one NBA scout who has watched Ayton multiple times this season. "But he shoots 3-pointers. He's Dwight with a 3-ball. How crazy is that? We haven't seen anybody with that combination. He moves like a 6-5 dude. He's a guy who will make an impact on day one. He's a franchise-changer."

"I just have a hard time believing there is anybody better than [Ayton]," Miller said that evening.

"I will dive on the floor for a loose ball," Ayton said. "That's how I'm trained. I can guard a guard if I want to. That's just that price. I'm not gonna sit here and let you score on me. That's in my blood."

Most opponents send an extra defender or two to help on Ayton. That's why the team shoots 39.2 percent from the 3-point line when he's on the floor and just 34 percent when he's on the bench, according to HoopLens.com. (think about Booker here - OMG)

Love his humble beginnings: "Most people say they're in poverty because they've got a little Android [phone]," Ayton said. "Those people [in the Bahamas] don't have phones. No house phones. People live in wood houses, straw houses. No electricity and barely any water, even though we're surrounded by water. My mom and dad, they really did a good job because they did their best to not show us that part of the world."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are some serious and passionate Doncic supporters... and Doncic does look like an awesome prospect who will do well in the NBA. BUT there is no way in this crazy world that McD and Sarver draft Doncic over Ayton. Ayton simply has too much potential. He is generational. He is a physical outlier that we have not seen in decades.

Since the 2010 draft there is one player, maybe, who would have been drafted ahead of DeAndre Ayton. That player is Anthony Davis in 2012. Some may say Simmons, Towns or Irving... but if Ayton were in those drafts, I think he still would have been #1.

This thread is Ayton vs. Doncic. It is not close. Ayton is the #1 pick for all of the reasons we have beaten to death. You can NOT pass on his current day physical gifts, skills and his future potential in the NBA.

One thing that hasn't been discussed enough is Ayton's fit in PHX. Booker will get a vote. Jackson will too. They have kind of already voted. McD and Sarver will look at team chemistry and draft the local kid with collegiate experience who plays a position of need on our current roster.

There are more potential chemistry issues with Doncic than with Ayton. Consider an old quote from Booker around the time of the Bender draft year, that he prefers NCAA experienced players vs. unproven foreign players. Don't ask me for the link... maybe someone else can post it?

Hope this has helped a little bit. The Doncic talk is cute and all... but reality is Ayton will be our pick. It. Makes. Too. Much. Sense.

Let's all welcome our newest franchise player - DeAndre Ayton - with open arms as PHX Suns fans.


I agree Suns will take Ayton. But I have one logical problem. If Ayton is that incredible good already, how Arizona couldn’t beat 13 seat team in NCAA tournament? He should single-handedly beat them. Today even Durant was mentioned as comparison. And even more strangly, Buffalo’s coach target Ayton in D. Far the best player in this draft? Something doesn’t add up. And if he couldn’t help Arizona, how will he help Suns, who were dead last in much more difficult competition?
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Re: The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1 

Post#980 » by sunsbum » Tue May 22, 2018 4:31 pm

As much as I love Doncic, and that's a lot, I just don't see how we pass over Ayton. He looks more polished offensively than any big man I've seen in quite sometime.
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