The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[thamadkant]

I like Ayton and I think Doncic as a big forward has merit...

But if I really wanted the Suns to maximise this pick and have 5 cornerstone players by 2020.... I would trade Pick 1 for 2 top 6 picks....

I want JJJ and MPJ

And sign a veteran PG.


So you have

C: JJJ
F: MPJ
F: Jackson
G: Booker
G: 3D point guard

So you'd take a shot at 1 sure thing (Ayton or Doncic) for two very risky players?

Ok

I just said I like the two of Ayton and Doncic.

But I also like the other two.


Would you bet your life savings or Your house that Ayton and Doncic are sure bets?
I wouldn't.

There's always a risk...

Unless the players come in and they got well... We can't really say. Were all speculating.

I wouldn't bet my only house that I love living in for any of them

[Saberestar]

ESPN’s Amin Elhassan told Doug & Wolf on Wednesday that he would favor Slovenian point-wing Luka Doncic over Ayton.

“There are strong arguments for either one. I look at the Suns … there’s a lot of holes. It’s not like, ‘Oh, there’s this hole they have to plug up,'” Elhassan said. “The one that I think is one of the hardest to fill in is passing. The Suns have been a terrible passing team for a number of years, and that’s something that I can’t say, ‘Well, this guy that I’ll draft, he’ll get better as a passer.’

“When you look at Doncic, and he’s got a supernatural level of passing feel and ability, for a guy that age, by the way — 18, 19 years old — he’s passing with the anticipation of a veteran who’s seen these plays hundreds of times. That’s special. For that reason, I lean toward Doncic. But again, you could sit here and make all the arguments for Ayton and I’d be like, ‘You’re absolutely correct.'”

The 19-year-old Doncic is averaging 14.5 points, 5.2 rebounds and 4.6 assists in EuroLeague and Liga ACB play for his Spanish squad, Real Madrid.

[thamadkant]

Ahmin hates the Suns... So stuff that guy

[thamadkant]

Tyreke Evans as FA acquisition to play PG next to Booker and Jackson... Bender and Chriss back up Ayton and Favors.... So you have bigs that are perimeter oriented and inside dominant

[SuperSunsFan]

I no longer resist the idea of us drafting Doncic but i reserve the right to come back and roast die hard Doncic fan people and unleash the cruelest profanities on them if we drafts Doncic and he turns out to be a complete bust Austin Rivers 2.0 while Ayton take the league by storm like the second coming of Olajuwon.

It's gonna be the same if Ayton turns out to be Olowokandi 2.0

usually only a few players out of the entire first round turn into anything competent anyway, it is as likely for the player we are getting with the 16th pick to become an useful as the guy we get with the 1st overall. Finley was drafted 21st I believe, he was 10x the player of all our top ten picks in the last 10 years combined. Don't know if it is just a coincidence but Suns have not drafted well since Van arsdale suffered a mild stroke or heart attack many years ago. I believe He was responsible for drafting Marion and Amare.

However I put most of the blame of our misfortunes in the draft on Sarver, by selling our first round picks in the first years he was the suns owner he essentially spit at the faces of the Basketball Gods and jinxed all of of our subsequent picks. Hopefully the Basketball Gods have forgiven us and good things will begin to happen starting with this 1st draft choice.

[lilfishi22]

Tyreke Evans as FA acquisition to play PG next to Booker and Jackson... Bender and Chriss back up Ayton and Favors.... So you have bigs that are perimeter oriented and inside dominant

I'm in favor of signing Evans. He's a big PG who can do a bit of everything. Rather throw money at him than Beasley when it comes to recently reclaimed reclamation projects

[MrMiyagi]

I like Ayton and I think Doncic as a big forward has merit...

But if I really wanted the Suns to maximise this pick and have 5 cornerstone players by 2020.... I would trade Pick 1 for 2 top 6 picks....

I want JJJ and MPJ

And sign a veteran PG.


So you have

C: JJJ
F: MPJ
F: Jackson
G: Booker
G: 3D point guard

So you'd take a shot at 1 sure thing (Ayton or Doncic) for two very risky players?

Ok

I just said I like the two of Ayton and Doncic.

But I also like the other two.


Would you bet your life savings or Your house that Ayton and Doncic are sure bets?
I wouldn't.

There's always a risk...

Unless the players come in and they got well... We can't really say. Were all speculating.

I wouldn't bet my only house that I love living in for any of them

I would sooner bet on Doncic or Ayton than I would on Porter Jr and JJJ.

[Frank Lee]

I can see us drafting Ayton Then trying like hell to move up to get Doncic or Young. Of course we will need some cooperation from others… But this fits McDs MO

He won’t be able to get Doncic then Ayton, but there’s a slight chance for the flip side

I’d also follow up an Ayton pick with an all in run at Julious Randle, regardless.

It’s going to be a fun day

[thamadkant]

So you'd take a shot at 1 sure thing (Ayton or Doncic) for two very risky players?

Ok

I just said I like the two of Ayton and Doncic.

But I also like the other two.


Would you bet your life savings or Your house that Ayton and Doncic are sure bets?
I wouldn't.

There's always a risk...

Unless the players come in and they got well... We can't really say. Were all speculating.

I wouldn't bet my only house that I love living in for any of them

I would sooner bet on Doncic or Ayton than I would on Porter Jr and JJJ.

In a vacuum you will not bet your house or livelihood on any one of them.

A hundred bucks a grand... Even 10k... Sure live on the edge.
I would put maybe a hundred on each of them making all star by their 4th year... Not with you but with a proper betting agency.

But my house? Or my Coupe? Nope

[SuperSunsFan]

Am I the only one here still high on Marquese and believe with his skill set and athleticism he has the potential to become a great center in the modern game if he can keep his mind in the right place? Many Suns fans hate him and think he has that face you want to punch, don't know why, he is a good looking kid.

[thamadkant]

Chriss relies Ron jumping near his max verticals or At least pass his median vertical limit to callenge most shots... He's got short standing reach.

He can be a defender similar to Marcus Morris but way more athletic
.. If he was smarter and doesn't jump on fakes... He would someone I would put on a LeBron James and hope to goodness that he just bodies him up until the shot goes up in which he can elevate and challenge.

[JMac1]

Tatum is a great

But as Carmelo has proven.... being a scorer and not much else becomes a burden down the line. How amazing was Melo when he was in his early to mid 20s?

Tatum is a very good shooter and the only thing that prevents him from being an absolute star down the line would be if he doesnt develop other aspects of his game. Sure, he could be a Dirk Nowitski type as well, someone who is a great scorer but stretches the floor by being an elite 3pt shooter... but Dirk was 7 feet and that made him very hard to matchup with.

I think Tatum can become better than Rudy Gay purely because he is being coached properly and is learning to play within a team environment... but I think he needs to become a better play maker for others... his defense is adequate and will improve so...




Josh Jackson has him beat in mobility, athleticism and overall-all potential... but Josh needs to become a decent shooter. A sub 65% Free throw shooter is not good enough as he draws a lot fouls actually... so he's missing out on close to 4-5 points a game by just being below average at that bit.


The thing is.... with the way Josh has improved and has shown quick learning ability... and what looks to be a high motor and work ethic... I think he has several notches that he will improved on by the time he's in his mid 20s.

Tatum and Brown has also shown how FIT and opportunity are VERY critical in development... lets not even mention Mitchell.... if Mitchell was off the bench with 16 mins a game, I dont think he'd be as good as he is... he had to quickly adopt an alpha mentality to prove he deserves the minutes he's getting and the team looks up to him to contribute....



Fultz is very intriguing and I would be very interested in making a move for him.... Pick 16 and Unprotected pick next year would be my offer with maybe Chriss attached.

Of course Tatum can be better, however he average 4 Rebs and 2 Assist per game in the Eastern Conference Finals. But hey, he is Jayson Tatum and he has a great narrative playing for the Celts and everyone bought it, thus, his averaging 4 rebs and 2 assts in 40 mins per game is overlooked....lmao! People are such sheep.

Imagine anyone else just being a good shooter. Heck he ain’t even a scorer yet. 17.8 pts on the Finals. It’s dumbfounding, the hype for this guy.

Some fans really just love to discount the impact, production and potential of Tatum and just put down his rookie achievement because the Celtics had a great narrative this season. This guy was more productive and almost as efficient in the playoffs as the regular season, that's HUGE for a rookie. But sure, let's discount what he's done because he only averaged 4 rebs and 2ast as a 19 year old, in his rookie season in the NBA playoffs. We're talking about a guy who's done all this and is more than a year younger than Josh Jackson the guy who's supposedly the next coming of Kawhi Leonard. Hell, if JJ averaged half those stats, you'd be looking for some obscure narrative to show he's somehow better than Tatum's almost 19/5/3 in the playoffs.

Like 18ppg in the ECF (18.5ppg in the playoffs) is something to just brush aside. Good Lord... You call people sheep for recognizing his talent and achievements as a rookie and you're over here just spewing hate on the guy for no reasons other than you don't like the attention he's getting. C'mon dude, how about be a *little* less transparent with your obvious bias against the kid.

Rudy Gay.

[lilfishi22]

Am I the only one here still high on Marquese and believe with his skill set and athleticism he has the potential to become a great center in the modern game if he can keep his mind in the right place? Many Suns fans hate him and think he has that face you want to punch, don't know why, he is a good looking kid.

The potential is only there because of his athleticism. It's the same argument for pretty much any young player/prospects who's skills hasn't caught up to their athleticism.

I get that he's young but I'm never really that hopeful when it comes to young players who didn't pick up basketball until very recently. It's the same thing with Len. Unless you're just a basketball savant, without the experience, coaching and development from a young age, they are always going to be behind in terms of their on court awareness and understanding of how they can impact the game than their peers who may have the same level of athleticism but much further ahead development wise. It's that awareness and understanding of the game which is the difference between an athlete and a basketball player. Athlete can dunk and shoot but basketball is more than just dunking and shooting.

This is why I'm not high on Chriss and never really was. The odds are against him

[Dr Manute]

Am I the only one here still high on Marquese and believe with his skill set and athleticism he has the potential to become a great center in the modern game if he can keep his mind in the right place? Many Suns fans hate him and think he has that face you want to punch, don't know why, he is a good looking kid.

The potential is only there because of his athleticism. It's the same argument for pretty much any young player/prospects who's skills hasn't caught up to their athleticism.

I get that he's young but I'm never really that hopeful when it comes to young players who didn't pick up basketball until very recently. It's the same thing with Len. Unless you're just a basketball savant, without the experience, coaching and development from a young age, they are always going to be behind in terms of their on court awareness and understanding of how they can impact the game than their peers who may have the same level of athleticism but much further ahead development wise. It's that awareness and understanding of the game which is the difference between an athlete and a basketball player. Athlete can dunk and shoot but basketball is more than just dunking and shooting.

This is why I'm not high on Chriss and never really was. The odds are against him

Ayton = athlete = started basketball age 12
Doncic = basketball player = coached by father age 2-1/2

[lilfishi22]

Am I the only one here still high on Marquese and believe with his skill set and athleticism he has the potential to become a great center in the modern game if he can keep his mind in the right place? Many Suns fans hate him and think he has that face you want to punch, don't know why, he is a good looking kid.

The potential is only there because of his athleticism. It's the same argument for pretty much any young player/prospects who's skills hasn't caught up to their athleticism.

I get that he's young but I'm never really that hopeful when it comes to young players who didn't pick up basketball until very recently. It's the same thing with Len. Unless you're just a basketball savant, without the experience, coaching and development from a young age, they are always going to be behind in terms of their on court awareness and understanding of how they can impact the game than their peers who may have the same level of athleticism but much further ahead development wise. It's that awareness and understanding of the game which is the difference between an athlete and a basketball player. Athlete can dunk and shoot but basketball is more than just dunking and shooting.

This is why I'm not high on Chriss and never really was. The odds are against him

Ayton = athlete = started basketball age 12
Doncic = basketball player = coached by father age 2-1/2

Not saying Ayton is a basketball savant but while he's closer to an athlete than a basketball player (imo), it's hard to deny 20/11 in college. The guy has some skills and unreal athleticism. If I recall correctly, Len also switched from gymnastics to basketball around that time. Len was no where the prospect Ayton is but you can tell how slow development is with these 'late starters'. Virtually every great player started playing in their early youths. I can't think of another great player who didn't start playing until their teens.

[ATTL]

The potential is only there because of his athleticism. It's the same argument for pretty much any young player/prospects who's skills hasn't caught up to their athleticism.

I get that he's young but I'm never really that hopeful when it comes to young players who didn't pick up basketball until very recently. It's the same thing with Len. Unless you're just a basketball savant, without the experience, coaching and development from a young age, they are always going to be behind in terms of their on court awareness and understanding of how they can impact the game than their peers who may have the same level of athleticism but much further ahead development wise. It's that awareness and understanding of the game which is the difference between an athlete and a basketball player. Athlete can dunk and shoot but basketball is more than just dunking and shooting.

This is why I'm not high on Chriss and never really was. The odds are against him

Ayton = athlete = started basketball age 12
Doncic = basketball player = coached by father age 2-1/2

Not saying Ayton is a basketball savant but while he's closer to an athlete than a basketball player (imo), it's hard to deny 20/11 in college. The guy has some skills and unreal athleticism. If I recall correctly, Len also switched from gymnastics to basketball around that time. Len was no where the prospect Ayton is but you can tell how slow development is with these 'late starters'. Virtually every great player started playing in their early youths. I can't think of another great player who didn't start playing until their teens.

Hakeem didnt start playing basketball until he was 17.

[thamadkant]

Ayton grew up playing soccer so he has good foot work.

Hakeem also grew up playing soccer But more of a goal keeper..

[lilfishi22]

I guess that's one. I honestly couldn't think of one that started playing basketball late. Soccer is a great sport to have a base in. Nash was an excellent player and he accredited his passing to the "soccer angles"

[nevetsov]

I also don't agree with the narrative that, just because GS, CLE and HOU play without a dominant big and shoot a lot of threes, that copying that formula is the only path to a championship.

It's not the style that leads them to be successful. It's the combination of talent + chemistry.

Looking at talent, which other teams are outright better than these? can't think of any off the top of my head.

Of the three, CLE has the least overall talent I think, but they do have a top 5 all time player who makes the players around him much better than they would ordinarily be on their own. It's that element of chemistry that propels them into perennial contender status.

So relating this to Ayton or Doncic.. There doesn't appear to be much of a split between talent. Chemistry wise, I lean towards Ayton, because we have alpha wings already, but no alpha big man.

[AtheJ415]

Am I the only one here still high on Marquese and believe with his skill set and athleticism he has the potential to become a great center in the modern game if he can keep his mind in the right place? Many Suns fans hate him and think he has that face you want to punch, don't know why, he is a good looking kid.

The potential is only there because of his athleticism. It's the same argument for pretty much any young player/prospects who's skills hasn't caught up to their athleticism.

I get that he's young but I'm never really that hopeful when it comes to young players who didn't pick up basketball until very recently. It's the same thing with Len. Unless you're just a basketball savant, without the experience, coaching and development from a young age, they are always going to be behind in terms of their on court awareness and understanding of how they can impact the game than their peers who may have the same level of athleticism but much further ahead development wise. It's that awareness and understanding of the game which is the difference between an athlete and a basketball player. Athlete can dunk and shoot but basketball is more than just dunking and shooting.

This is why I'm not high on Chriss and never really was. The odds are against him

This isn't really always true though. Plenty late to the game players have had massive success. For instance, Hakeem, who would still fit in today's NBA.