Spurs Off-Season

[KG and Truth]

Just wondering how you guys view Kristaps Porzingis given the Spurs' alleged "head over heels" interest in him?

I like him. Its going to take someone like him being offered to even get the Spurs to listen. IMO, because he might not play at all next year that it would take a lot more than just him to get Leonard. I think we are still in a win-now mode because of Aldridge's age so waiting a year for Porzingis might not be ideal at this time.

Porzingis seems to be a bit injury prone and I didn't like his comments about being "tired" early in the season before he got hurt. (which is funny considering Leonard was out all season) but Kawhi is considered a top 5 player in the league and he is signed for next year. Which means the Spurs can ask for the moon and the stars for him right now.
Plus the salaries arent even close and I doubt we want to take on any of the bad contracts the Knicks have.

If Kanter opts out I think Knicks would have the space to absorb Kawhi's contract.

Nevertheless, if Bud was able to unlock Tim Hardaway Jr's potential Pop would be able to do so as well.

I know Kanter said he is considering opting out but I can't imagine he actually does. Market is going to be very tight this summer and there isn't much cap room to go around. Not to mention he isn't that good.

He'll take the 18mill.

[nicnac215]

If Danny accepts his PO would you trade him+1st rd pick for Fournier?

[imagump1313]

If Danny accepts his PO would you trade him+1st rd pick for Fournier?

I would take Fournier for Patty Mills, not Danny green.

[King Ken]

If Danny accepts his PO would you trade him+1st rd pick for Fournier?

I would take Fournier for Patty Mills, not Danny green.

More than that, I wouldn't trade for Evan if I was SAS. If SAS can get KP. They would have room for another max contract 7-9 years with KP, LMA, Murray and their 2018 1st round pick.

San Antonio needs someone like Towns, Embiid or KP to attract Butler, Kemba, or Klay. That said, if Leonard resigns, Evan is an option but if that pick in involved, not for Green but for Mills.

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[CIN-C-STAR]

I like him. Its going to take someone like him being offered to even get the Spurs to listen. IMO, because he might not play at all next year that it would take a lot more than just him to get Leonard. I think we are still in a win-now mode because of Aldridge's age so waiting a year for Porzingis might not be ideal at this time.

Porzingis seems to be a bit injury prone and I didn't like his comments about being "tired" early in the season before he got hurt. (which is funny considering Leonard was out all season) but Kawhi is considered a top 5 player in the league and he is signed for next year. Which means the Spurs can ask for the moon and the stars for him right now.
Plus the salaries arent even close and I doubt we want to take on any of the bad contracts the Knicks have.

If Kanter opts out I think Knicks would have the space to absorb Kawhi's contract.

Nevertheless, if Bud was able to unlock Tim Hardaway Jr's potential Pop would be able to do so as well.

I know Kanter said he is considering opting out but I can't imagine he actually does. Market is going to be very tight this summer and there isn't much cap room to go around. Not to mention he isn't that good.

He'll take the 18mill.

I don't see Kanter opting out either. He'll never command $18 mill on the open market this offseason.
I think Porzingis is far and away the best likely trade target for the Spurs if they have to trade Kawhi.
Most of the trades being thrown around involve lottery picks but unless it's a top-2 or 3 pick (Doncic) I think the Spurs would prefer a package that pays a more immediate dividend. I can't seem them feeling the need for a full rebuild considering they made the playoffs this season without Kawhi and with a $20 million hole in their roster. At the least I expect them to try to remain competitive for the duration of Pop's tenure.
Porzingis offers the best combination of immediate help and upside, imo, and I think he'd fit great next to Aldridge, and would be great for him to get a year of tutelage under Pau.
I also don't think the Spurs would be inclined to trade Kawhi to a conference rival or a current contender, and New York is neither.
For Kawhi, New York offers the big market he wants, and his uncle, who is his top adviser, lives in New Jersey. And he's obviously comfortable living there as he's been rehabbing there for months.
And for the Knicks, Frank-Hardaway-Kawhi + this year's lottery pick is an exciting young core to build around that should make the playoffs. Kawhi also makes them a potential player in free agency.
Porzingis + Courtney Lee + 2019 1st rd. pick (protected) for Kawhi is the best, most reasonable deal I've thought of.

[imagump1313]

Porzingis + Courtney Lee + 2019 1st rd. pick (protected) for Kawhi is the best, most reasonable deal I've thought of.

If I'm the Spurs there is no way I'm making that deal. I'm guessing the Spurs want to contend next year and they can do that with Leonard and Aldridge and a couple minor moves. If they are trading Leonard, I would think they want a deal that almost guarantees they are some sort of contender now, not 3 years from now when Popovich is gone and Aldridge is washed up.

Porzingis is a year away from even playing and probably another year away from being anywhere near what he was. The draft pick wouldn't be worth it unless it was a top 3 pick. And unless Courtney Lee somehow gets amnesia and forgets he is Courtney Lee and becomes a useful player that isnt worth it either.

At this point the Spurs are still in charge. We dont have to move Leonard because he is under contract next year so for the time being teams are going to have to offer something worthwhile.
I'm guessing we will work something out with Leonard and he will resign here. But if he really does want out. I keep him next year if we cant get a blockbuster take in return and let him walk when his contract is over. Then we get 20 some million in cap relief to to rebuild with and we were still contenders in 18/19.

[Denisaur9]

Trade centered around Derozan for Kawhi? Change of scenery for Both. Kawhi is the better player but similar to Paul George, trading a player with one year left on a contract you won't get full value. Derozan you'll get a 28 ppg 5 rpg 5 apg all star starter and he is Signed for 2 more years and would team up with Aldridge in a Pop system could be deadly. For Raptors we hope he wants to stay after 1 year, we get a defender for LeBron. Other pieces could be involved.

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[CIN-C-STAR]

Porzingis + Courtney Lee + 2019 1st rd. pick (protected) for Kawhi is the best, most reasonable deal I've thought of.

If I'm the Spurs there is no way I'm making that deal. I'm guessing the Spurs want to contend next year and they can do that with Leonard and Aldridge and a couple minor moves. If they are trading Leonard, I would think they want a deal that almost guarantees they are some sort of contender now, not 3 years from now when Popovich is gone and Aldridge is washed up.

Porzingis is a year away from even playing and probably another year away from being anywhere near what he was. The draft pick wouldn't be worth it unless it was a top 3 pick. And unless Courtney Lee somehow gets amnesia and forgets he is Courtney Lee and becomes a useful player that isnt worth it either.

At this point the Spurs are still in charge. We dont have to move Leonard because he is under contract next year so for the time being teams are going to have to offer something worthwhile.
I'm guessing we will work something out with Leonard and he will resign here. But if he really does want out. I keep him next year if we cant get a blockbuster take in return and let him walk when his contract is over. Then we get 20 some million in cap relief to to rebuild with and we were still contenders in 18/19.

Courtney Lee has shot better than 40 percent from 3 in each of the last two season and is on a reasonable contract. He's also a better scorer and better passer than Danny Green, which makes him a better fit next to Murray imo. Green fit great next to a younger Parker because Parker could handle the offensive duties and Green could space the floor for him and play D and that's all we needed, but now we need some PnR game from our 2-guard, especially with Mills as the primary backup at point. I'm a huge Danny Green fan but he doesn't fit in our back court nearly as well anymore. If he opts out, Lee would fill in nicely imo, and the addition of his salary also makes the trade work.
I think Porzingis will likely be back around the All-Star break next season. I agree that integrating him in the middle of the season would be an adjustments and may mean we aren't real contenders next season, but the Spurs would still be a playoff team.
And then the following season they would be legit contenders again and would have Porzingis locked up on a much cheaper contract than they'd have to give Kawhi.
One of the main considerations for me is that Porzingis on a regular max = Kawhi on a supermax in terms of overall value.
I agree that Kawhi is clearly a better player if that's all we're comparing, but he likely wants the supermax to stay. A better way to compare value is consider the contracts too. Porzingis will be significantly cheaper just because he won't ever be eligible for the superrmax once he's traded. That supermax is a killer. And for the same reason Kawhi would be more valuable to the Knicks than the Spurs, because they'd only have to pay him the max instead of a supermax.
Just my thoughts though. I'm not against running it back with Kawhi for one more season either if the Spurs can't get a deal they are happy with. A title run may make Kawhi change his mind and want to stay, too, who knows? I'm also not against paying him the supermax as he's one of the very best players in the league and I love his attitude and work ethic, but the injury history is concerning at this point when you're talking about a 5-year/$219 million contract.
I love Porzingis' attitude too. He's a competitive guy, not afraid to play defense, and I think he would thrive in a winning environment. He's also an international star so he would likely fit in well with the Spurs' culture and not be worried about playing in a bigger American city like Kawhi or his people allegedly are.

[imagump1313]

Courtney Lee has shot better than 40 percent from 3 in each of the last two season and is on a reasonable contract. He's also a better scorer and better passer than Danny Green, which makes him a better fit next to Murray imo. Green fit great next to a younger Parker because Parker could handle the offensive duties and Green could space the floor for him and play D and that's all we needed, but now we need some PnR game from our 2-guard, especially with Mills as the primary backup at point. I'm a huge Danny Green fan but he doesn't fit in our back court nearly as well anymore. If he opts out, Lee would fill in nicely imo, and the addition of his salary also makes the trade work.
I think Porzingis will likely be back around the All-Star break next season. I agree that integrating him in the middle of the season would be an adjustments and may mean we aren't real contenders next season, but the Spurs would still be a playoff team.
And then the following season they would be legit contenders again and would have Porzingis locked up on a much cheaper contract than they'd have to give Kawhi.
One of the main considerations for me is that Porzingis on a regular max = Kawhi on a supermax in terms of overall value.
I agree that Kawhi is clearly a better player if that's all we're comparing, but he likely wants the supermax to stay. A better way to compare value is consider the contracts too. Porzingis will be significantly cheaper just because he won't ever be eligible for the superrmax once he's traded. That supermax is a killer. And for the same reason Kawhi would be more valuable to the Knicks than the Spurs, because they'd only have to pay him the max instead of a supermax.
Just my thoughts though. I'm not against running it back with Kawhi for one more season either if the Spurs can't get a deal they are happy with. A title run may make Kawhi change his mind and want to stay, too, who knows? I'm also not against paying him the supermax as he's one of the very best players in the league and I love his attitude and work ethic, but the injury history is concerning at this point when you're talking about a 5-year/$219 million contract.
I love Porzingis' attitude too. He's a competitive guy, not afraid to play defense, and I think he would thrive in a winning environment. He's also an international star so he would likely fit in well with the Spurs' culture and not be worried about playing in a bigger American city like Kawhi or his people allegedly are.

Now if you're comparing Lee to Green or Mills then he's not soo terrible. The problem I have with Green and Mills is that they play starter minutes here and they should be backups. But Mills makes way too much money to take up a roster spot as a backup. Green is also overpaid for what he brings but his contract is up. Another problem with Lee is he's going to be 33 before the season starts. 35 when his contract is up. Giant red flags for me if I'm seeking compensation for a young MVP candidate. I understand we might have to take on some salary to make a trade happen but I would rather have a couple younger cheaper players than an old expensive contract and possibly another bench guy making 10-15 million per.

I guess my sticking point is we have an opportunity to contend next year so it would take a lot for me to change that by trading him for something that doesn't make me a contender next year. Unless he really makes it known he doesn't want to be here.
Aldridge is the same age as Lee. In 2 years he's pushing 35. Is he going to be playing at the same level 2 years from now? That's iffy.
Like I said earlier, the killer about Porzingis is that he is hurt. I have little concern about him flourishing here if he came and stayed healthy.

I'm still going to guess Leonard is staying right here regardless. I cant imagine Popovich coaching Team USA and having Leonard on that team if Leonard leaves here. I just don't see that playing out.

[G R E Y]

Trade centered around Derozan for Kawhi? Change of scenery for Both. Kawhi is the better player but similar to Paul George, trading a player with one year left on a contract you won't get full value. Derozan you'll get a 28 ppg 5 rpg 5 apg all star starter and he is Signed for 2 more years and would team up with Aldridge in a Pop system could be deadly. For Raptors we hope he wants to stay after 1 year, we get a defender for LeBron. Other pieces could be involved.

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With all due respect, because I think I've seen this trade or a variation on some sports site, but trading a finals MVP, a defensive juggernaut with great O efficiency who raises his game when it counts most for a maxed out older player who continually underperforms in the playoffs and is a defensive liability?

On the Spurs?!

DeRozan doesn't do

Read on Twitter

The thing is, he has shown small stretches of being capable of it, so he could be held accountable to do it, but because it has never been reinforced externally and he has never put a focus on it himself, ten or so years later, he is who he is; you can only stretch a player so much, and on the Spurs, if you don't play defense, you don't play:

Read on Twitter

No, there are far better options, the main one being Kawhi staying put right where he is, the caveat being, no player is bigger than the team.

[UDRIH14]

u get rid of some uneffective players whose not producing holdng the team back
keep kawhi to play out that contract if he wants max, i dont want to give him the supermax, then he goes get surgery taking another year off...stuff that then who knows what he be coming back...
if he is going to burn the spurs, i rather its the other way round...spurs dont need to show him any loyalty after the stunt he pulled, or whatever demands getting traded to a team he wants...rather spurs play it out and let him walk, take that capspace and go full rebuild if needed...hence spurs should look at promoting some guys on toros to spurs and some european stashes...

[ontnut]

Someone in the Toronto board posed this trade offer. I said it was ridiculous from the SA perspective, but he seems pretty confident that it's a good trade. What do you guys think?

Ibaka for Aldrige. Change of scenery for both. Aldrige's contract and age bring his value down so its doable. Or:
Ibaka, JV, Delon, OG, Siakam for Aldrige and Kawhi. Or keep Delon and put in Lowry and throw in Gasol for salary match.

[imagump1313]

Someone in the Toronto board posed this trade offer. I said it was ridiculous from the SA perspective, but he seems pretty confident that it's a good trade. What do you guys think?

Ibaka for Aldrige. Change of scenery for both. Aldrige's contract and age bring his value down so its doable. Or:
Ibaka, JV, Delon, OG, Siakam for Aldrige and Kawhi. Or keep Delon and put in Lowry and throw in Gasol for salary match.

Yeah, both those trades are idiotic.
Why would we give up on an all-star for an overpaid piece of crap?
Also, why would we trade a possible MVP candidate and an all-star for anyone on that under-achieving team?
I've seen some pretty ridiculous offers also.

The Spurs still hold the leverage if you ask me. They can force Leonard to play out his contract next year. That gives them another full season to work out whatever it is they need to workout with him. Or ask for the moon in a trade while he is still considered a top 5 player in the league.
If Leonard still wants to play the injury game next season then I say the Spurs play hardball and just let him walk and we free up 20 million plus in cap room to rebuild. I would guess in 2 years away from basketball not many teams will be lining up to give him 30 million a year, he may be forced to opt in for his last year for 21 million with the Spurs. Plus, how good would Leonard be after sitting out almost 2 full seasons?

I'm still guessing the 2 sides figure it out though.

[CIN-C-STAR]

Off-season rumors don't mean much, but Chams Sharania said on podcast that the Spurs and Kawhi's relationship isn't as bad as has been rumored by some, and that they'll need to talk through some issues but that Kawhi's camp isn't necessarily wanting out.
Then some guy on Twitter said he had dinner with someone close to Kawhi and that they expect to work out differences toward an extension. Take it with heaps of salt, obviously.
Still the "Kawhi wants out!" hot takes have totally died down and recent reports seem encouraging. I've no doubt the Spurs want to keep him if his quad his healthy and he wants to be there, and given their ability to offer more years at more money than anyone else, at this point I'm encouraged that he'll stay and that the in-season rumors were largely BS to generate ratings.
Also, Pop wants a meeting with Lebron. I expected that. At a minimum it's good to be in on meetings with all the major free agents, and Pop's earned that.
Still a long shot imo. Think they could make the money work actually, just think he wants to go where his family lives (LA), or to a team with young assets to trade for stars (LA, Boston or Philly), or a team ready to win now for sure (Houston, but I'm not sure they have the assets to make it work, though I do think Cleveland will be open to a S&T).
I think the Spurs have assets to make a S&T work, too, but it only matters if Lebron decides that's where he wants to be. I just don't think the Spurs are on his radar as much and his mind is probably already half made up, so they're at a big disadvantage.
I can guarantee Pop gives a good free agency meeting though. I'm sure he can charm the pants off someone just as well as he can go Serbian on them later on live national television
It's a big part of what makes him a great coach imo

[imagump1313]

I have expected all along that Kawhi was be staying put but we will see. Last year at this time we all thought Aldridge was a lost cause, including myself.

As far as Lebron James goes, I think what Pop is doing is just keeping everyone happy. Remember he is Team USA's coach and for that reason he wouldn't want to alienate James by appearing not to be interested in him coming here at all. I feel we will make an attempt just to keep face but I really don't see the Spurs ripping apart their roster no matter how flawed it is currently to bring James here. Anyone who signs James is setting themselves back 5 years in the future if he decides not to stick it out or it doesnt work out. The Spurs usually dont take gambles like that.

[inDe_eD]

I'm fully on the Lebron to SA train. I think it keeps Kawhi happy, gets another 3 years of Pop coaching, and we get to witness maybe the best defense in the last 20 years, and the most devastating frontcourt in league history.

[G R E Y]

A couple of articles about Kawhi have been put out recently, nothing really new just fleshing out some details that were previously unknown. The basic gist is that the relationship between Pop and Kawhi has been and remains solid, they will meet soon to work things out, and depending on how that goes, the offer that Kawhi wants and Spurs want to give will be tabled. That the articles have a more conciliatory and less adversarial tone about the relationship of both sides in general is a positive, so let's hope they can find their way back to each other and progress to new levels.

Woj's writing style is too dramatic, pouring over details with a magnifying glass that are more obvious than insightful, but other than the the fact that the Celtics made a trade offer in February that the Spurs turned down without a counter-proposal, and that Kawhi attended a gathering honouring Erin Popovich at a San Antonio restaurant on May 6 along with many other players, coaches and execs and Kawhi was as comfortable as he has been known to be, it's long on cliff-hanger suppositions and short on actual new information: Pop and Kawhi will meet, they have some things to work through, the super max is pending.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23770525/what-next-kawhi-leonard-san-antonio-spurs-nba-free-agency-trades


I was pleased to read Jabari Young's more palatable, less dramatic take on the situation:

The trade chatter involving Kawhi Leonard has cooled off over the last few weeks, with some around the NBA surprised it gained significant traction in the first place.

And now, the healing can commence. With the NBA Draft approaching, the Spurs are attempting to settle in-house business first, starting with Leonard.

League sources tell the Express-News that head coach Gregg Popovich and Leonard are trying to schedule a meeting, possibly this week, to discuss any issues or concerns Leonard may have, and hopefully come to a decision on offering Leonard the five-year, $219 million supermax extension he is eligible to receive.

Leonard, who is still rehabbing from his quad injury, is close to feeling 100 percent — “He’s at 96, 97 percent,” a source told the Express-News — and anticipates being ready for the start of training camp in September.

https://www.expressnews.com/spurs-nation/article/Spurs-Kawhi-Leonard-relationship-could-be-12984918.php


To the other off-season news presented earlier above, Pop wants a meeting with LBJ should LeBron opt out (sounds highly likely). That there is word of it in print in a couple of reports now gives the news some weight.

If Popovich can help rectify Leonard’s situation, the Spurs can then focus on other roster-related decisions in efforts to surround their franchise player with more help.

National reports suggest Popovich could seek out a meeting with LeBron James — if he elects to become a free agent — in efforts to sell him on the idea of playing in San Antonio with Leonard.

James has long admired Popovich and if the long-time coach requested a meeting, it’s hard to see James declining.

https://www.expressnews.com/spurs-nation/article/Spurs-Kawhi-Leonard-relationship-could-be-12984918.php

I was highly skeptical about LeBron playing for the Spurs, but have to say that I noticed a change in attitude this year that made me more amenable to the possibility (not like my opinion would make a feather weight's worth of difference anyway lol). Honestly, if they could iron something out where we wouldn't mortgage our long-term future for a year or two of LeBron, he'd be on a team with the best player he's ever played with in Kawhi, filled with players who are smart and play the right way, and coached by GOAT Pop with whom he's had a love fest for some time now. Work it, gentlemen!

[G R E Y]

In other off-season Spurs news, we want to keep Kyle and it sounds like we will present a qualifying offer. Kyle can be a RFA this summer.

In other contract news, the Spurs are also looking to re-sign forward Kyle Anderson, who can become a restricted free agent this summer. The team is expected to offer Anderson his qualifying offer, which increased to roughly $4.7 million. The Spurs will be allowed to submit the offer on June 29.

If a long-term deal isn’t reached, Anderson can seek out a contract from another team, which the Spurs can match, or sign the qualifying offer and become an unrestricted free agent next summer.

Leagues sources tell the Express-News, about seven teams could make a run at Anderson during free agency.

Anderson had his most productive season with the Spurs since being drafted in 2014. He averaged career-highs in points (7.9) rebounds (5.4) and assists (2.7) in 74 games.

https://www.expressnews.com/spurs-nation/article/Spurs-Kawhi-Leonard-relationship-could-be-12984918.php

I like Kyle and his game. Like many Spurs this year, he was put in a position beyond his role because of multiple player injuries, but improved in many areas of his game. Besides the stats listed above, his defense was pesky, deceptively quick and tenacious all year.

His post-season wasn't memorable, but you have to look the sum total of his game for the whole season, and I loved watching how he'd surprise opponents with his timing in backing out of players who were posting up to get them out of rhythm, in poking basketballs our from behind opponents, in anticipating and deflecting passes, in getting to O rebounds and putbacks. His stats are up across the board, but he does a lot of little things right that contribute to wins.

[inDe_eD]

Good recaps Grey,

I don't know if you've already broken it down somewhere else, but Shams Charania (Yahoo) had an article a few days ago and in so many words said that the Kawhi Drama had been way overstated from the start, which is very much the hill I've always been willing to die on. I'm very much ready for all these media people to stop talking about trading for Kawhi like he's get-able for a mid-first round pick and a bag of half-eaten cheetos.

I do hope SA can make its moves and then retain KA long-term. He's kind of the perfect complimentary wing to Kawhi, he won't be winning any first team all-nba's, but he does the little stuff and will allow SA to put resources into other positions.

*Edit - Whoops, sorry Cin-C-Star, just noticed that you already mentioned the Chams reference earlier. That's what I get for posting before reading everyone else's stuff first

[Frankie23]

So, why would the Spurs offer a SUPER MAX for a player that's still on his contract and has spent last season injured!?
New contract or not, he still has an year left in San Antonio.

Future scenarios:
- He doesn't sign an extention; plays the whole season, All NBA team and Spurs offer Super Max or Free agency.
- He signs a Super Max now and next season he ask for a trade.
- Spurs get a nice deal and trade him (rebuild?).
- We sign LeBron and suddenly he decides to stay and sign a new deal next year.

For me, basketball wise Kawhi is a Super Max player, but his last season (wether he was injured or he quit) is not worthy a SUPER MAX, specially if you don't know if he wants to be there for a long time (or stay healthy)