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Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M

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What's he worth?

13 million/yr
36
27%
14 million/yr
19
15%
15 million/yr
20
15%
16 million/yr
27
21%
17 million/yr
15
11%
18+ million/yr
14
11%
 
Total votes: 131

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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#261 » by johnnyvann840 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:04 pm

JimmyJammer wrote:
Houston_Bulls wrote:
JimmyJammer wrote:I think Zach is going to get about 75 mil for 4 years with possibly an opt-out after the third season. If I were Pax, I'd frontload his contract on the first and second year since we have the money to spend now anyway, and we are not getting any meaningful free-agent. If you pay Zach about 45mil, 25 next season and 20 the following, you'll only owe him 30 mil for the remaining two seasons, which would not be so bad because he'd be 25 years old with a tradeable contract. So, there are many ways it can be done.


:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


Bro, stop being upset for Reinsdorf's money. If the money is there, we might as well spend it. Besides, we will not be a player in the free-agent market this year anyway. While Zach LaVine may not be a superstar, he does have some values. When you consider what guys like Wiggins, Bradley Beal, Hardaway and Harris are getting, this is not overpaying at all. Even freaking Courtney Lee is making 12mil a season. Based on my idea, in two years when you have LaVine making 15mil a season, it will be considered a bargain.


Bro, why do you want so badly to pay Zach Lavine all this money? What benefit is it to you or any other Bull fan? What benefit is it to the Bulls organization? Seems to me the only one who benefits ANYTHING at all from that would be Zach Lavine.

I mean, why needlessly just pay somebody? Just to pay him? What is the goal here? You make no sense at all. You just keep trying to convince everyone that we should just throw money at Zach Lavine. Are you his mom? I just cannot figure this out. What is in this for anybody who wants to see the Bulls succeed?
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#262 » by SensiBull » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:16 pm

Ccwatercraft wrote:
SensiBull wrote:I'm saying Sean Kilpatrick can do everything Zach LaVine can do.

If you think one is good and the other is not, the burden of proof is on you, not me. You prove it.

Numerically, I don't see the difference.


looks like I seriously need to bust out some Kilpatrick highlight videos.

the good news is we got him locked up super cheap.


Or some Zach LaVine ones. These aren't porno reviews. It's okay to objectively consider the numbers as part of the picture too. There is such a thing as winning ugly. It's why some sports analysts use blind reveals. And on that note, I'm guilty as charged.

I admit it. You will never catch me arguing that LaVine is worth as much based on the skill level he showed in Minnesota, as compared to Booker, who is only just now getting any sort of team to speak of in his career, including 2 more assists per game, 5-7 more points and 38% shooting from 3.

[And the thing about the 3's isn't even about the points or the 0.04%. It's about spacing for teammates to cut, drive and post up, and how defenders can't sag off of you when they have to respect your accuracy from out there. It's about being enough more than the run of the mill threat from there so as to alter or confuse the opposing coach's defensive plan, preventing switches and double teams -sort of like being agood enough foul shooter for theother team to not want to foul you. It doesn't have tobe 100% - just high enough above average to be a disincentive. Otherwise, what are you paying extra to get? Someone to call your own?]
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#263 » by Truebiscuit » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:34 pm

As the NBA draft came and went, a rather surprising narrative emerged from Bulls Nation.

The gist of it was that 23-year-old Zach LaVine has not developed the way the Bulls had hoped he would, and will never become the player the Chicago Bulls expected him to be when they traded Jimmy Butler.

So, yeah, that happened fast.

It's a bit hard to understand since LaVine played in only 24 games after returning from an ACL tear that cost him nearly a year of basketball, and the only thing Bulls veep John Paxson wanted was to see LaVine on the court again.

"Our expectation when Zach came back was just to get him playing basketball again," Paxson told us Friday morning on the Score. "He was coming off a major injury and hadn't played basketball in 11 months.

"It's very difficult for a player to come back and have that consistent game. He needed to get his legs underneath him and just get back to playing basketball.

"So from that standpoint we were thrilled."

At times, LaVine played some really good basketball and some really mediocre basketball. He also had some bad games, which is just what you would expect from a player off the court for so long.

"We had to sit him down toward the end of the year when he got some tendinitis in that knee," Paxson said. "We didn't want to push that envelope, but he's got an entire summer to get himself stronger and get himself in great basketball condition."

That's the most underrated part of this equation. A world-class athlete generally can't miss that much time with that kind of injury and play like he hasn't missed that much time with that kind of injury.

"Anybody who's had a significant injury and sits out, the conditioning component is a really hard piece in coming back, and that doesn't just happen easily," Paxson said. "We brought Zach back on a minutes limit just to get him playing again, and what we found was when he was playing shorter minutes, he was a much more effective basketball player.

"I think that speaks to the conditioning component of when you come back from an injury. As his minutes extended, he wasn't as efficient a player."

Nothing about LaVine's season was surprising, but conversations about a contract extension and restricted free agency have led to speculation that the Bulls are not as enamored as they once were.

There have been reports that the Bulls wouldn't match if LaVine were offered a huge deal, which might be a possibility, but Paxson said the idea that the Bulls have suddenly soured on LaVine is simply not true.

"The message we gave these guys at the end of the year was we want everyone to come back in great basketball shape," Paxson said. "We feel like this roster can play the way (coach) Fred (Hoiberg) wants to play in terms of pace and pushing the ball.

"I know (the coaches) have already dissected how we're doing things offensively and defensively. They're gonna make some changes in philosophy in terms of running and spacing and those types of things.

"It's a really good opportunity for us, and Zach fits that type of play. If you can get a guy with his speed and athleticism out ahead of the ball and throw it up to him where he can create and get to the rim -- get to the foul line, those types of things -- that will be a huge plus for us.

"It's always difficult -- we saw it with Derrick (Rose) -- when a player comes back from those kinds of injuries, but Zach's athleticism is still there and he's got an off-season now to really get himself together and we're looking forward to having him back."

The Bulls thought LaVine had star power when they acquired him, and they also knew he would need time while returning from a serious injury before they would see it consistently.

There doesn't seem to be any doubt in Paxson's mind that LaVine can still be that guy, and nothing that's happened since his comeback in January has changed that.

There's no guarantee it will occur, but let's allow him a bit more than 24 games -- at 27 minutes a night -- before we write him off.

brozner@dailyherald.com

• Listen to Barry Rozner from 9 a.m. to noon Sundays on the Score's "Hit and Run" show at WSCR 670-AM and follow him @BarryRozner on Twitter.


http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/20180623/rozner-chicago-bulls-lavine-still-in-comeback-mode
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA 

Post#264 » by Red8911 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:40 pm

HomoSapien wrote:How difficult would it be to work our a Lavine sign and trade to the Spurs for Leonard? If it’s doable I’d push for that. Spurs are motivated to trade him to the East and we are seemingly afraid to make a long term commitment to LaVine. It seems like the right risk for both sides, IMO.

Agreed if possible they need to try this. Wonder what else they would want though to accept a deal. Would a resigned Lavine, resigned Portis,Lopez, Valentine and future pick be enough? If I were the spurs I like this. They get good young proven talent in Lavine and Portis, a starting solid center in Lopez, an improved Valentine and a pick.
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#265 » by Houston_Bulls » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:42 pm

coldfish wrote:As I have said, Zach isn't even a starter in the NBA. Not ideally. He doesn't move well without the ball to allow him to be a secondary option, can't be a number one option and is a defensive liability.

He isn't worthless though. He seems like a Jamal Crawford type. Just a bench gunner. I think he would be an asset in that role. A lot of teams would love to have a guy like that coming in off the bench.

Problem is that he doesn't want to get paid like that or play like that. He isn't going to accept it, IMHO.


Lavine could, in theory, become a solid above average starter; he has the shooting ability and quickness to be a deadly off ball player; he can run the pick and roll a little bit. I would not be surprised if Lavine became an above average NBA 2 guard. However, I do not believe in paying guys based on potential.

The other side of the potential with Lavine, is that he becomes one of these talented wings who bounces around and never figures it out. The NBA is filled with guys like Jordan Clarkson, Austin Rivers, Rodney Hood, Tim Hardaway Jr., etc. Guys who are just good enough to keep getting contracts, but not good enough to help their teams win.
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#266 » by SHO'NUFF » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:47 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:
JimmyJammer wrote:
Houston_Bulls wrote:
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


Bro, stop being upset for Reinsdorf's money. If the money is there, we might as well spend it. Besides, we will not be a player in the free-agent market this year anyway. While Zach LaVine may not be a superstar, he does have some values. When you consider what guys like Wiggins, Bradley Beal, Hardaway and Harris are getting, this is not overpaying at all. Even freaking Courtney Lee is making 12mil a season. Based on my idea, in two years when you have LaVine making 15mil a season, it will be considered a bargain.


Bro, why do you want so badly to pay Zach Lavine all this money? What benefit is it to you or any other Bull fan? What benefit is it to the Bulls organization? Seems to me the only one who benefits ANYTHING at all from that would be Zach Lavine.

I mean, why needlessly just pay somebody? Just to pay him? What is the goal here? You make no sense at all. You just keep trying to convince everyone that we should just throw money at Zach Lavine. Are you his mom? I just cannot figure this out. What is in this for anybody who wants to see the Bulls succeed?



At 15 per I’d also love Lavine to sign long term....I’d actually be very happy!

He was injured, never worked out in the previous off season (bc of that injury), then he was traded to a new team (while not properly being prepared bc of his injury), & he only played 24 games. All of that means something. So, those measly 24 games aren’t really that bad after everything he went through. I saw potential.

Now Zach is injury free and busting his ass in the off season. Regardless of it being a contract year....he’s a gym rat. This will be his first (true) season with the Bulls. I like what he has shown in the past and feel he’s still got plenty of room to grow.
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#267 » by brentmoney » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:12 pm

coldfish wrote:As I have said, Zach isn't even a starter in the NBA. Not ideally. He doesn't move well without the ball to allow him to be a secondary option, can't be a number one option and is a defensive liability.

He isn't worthless though. He seems like a Jamal Crawford type. Just a bench gunner. I think he would be an asset in that role. A lot of teams would love to have a guy like that coming in off the bench.

Problem is that he doesn't want to get paid like that or play like that. He isn't going to accept it, IMHO.

Paying guys like Lavine big money is the type of thing that locks teams into "mediocre at best" for years at a time. Quite frankly, a sign and trade for draft picks looks to be the best option, even if you are taking junk salary back. That would pretty much open up every team in the NBA.


yeah, the issue with lavine is that he's jamal crawford but he thinks of himself as klay thompson.
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#268 » by Lotty8989 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:14 pm

What's everybody problem with lavine??? Do you guys not think he can become any better??? If we don't max him and he goes somewhere and shows out will you guys not regret it??? If we going based off potential I say max him because Wiggins got maxed based off potential before last season and tbh in 24 games that zach played in he was better than Wiggins ijs
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#269 » by BadWolf » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:25 pm

Bulls fans really soured quickly on Lavine.
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#270 » by SensiBull » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:25 pm

A. Some of this you HAVE to say as GM. It's not lying. It's the requisite optimism of someone - a GM - who wants toasee his trade work out.

B. That doesn't mean that the trade hasn't paid off in other ways to where it's now a potential case of diminishing returns.The trade didn'tgjust yield the three players we got (none of whom is anyone proposing to trade back, not even one for one for Butler himself), but it granted us permission to suck long enough to get a 4th player, WCJ, instead of Josh Okogie or Greyson Allen or somebody.


Now, you have to wonder if you aren't going to hang in the bar too late and wind up waking up next to someone you. perhaps, should have parted company with the night before.
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#271 » by johnnyvann840 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:45 pm

Lotty8989 wrote:What's everybody problem with lavine??? Do you guys not think he can become any better??? If we don't max him and he goes somewhere and shows out will you guys not regret it??? If we going based off potential I say max him because Wiggins got maxed based off potential before last season and tbh in 24 games that zach played in he was better than Wiggins ijs


WHY?!! Why max him when we don't have to? FFS, just let him go get an offer and then decide if you want to match. Why is that so foccking difficult to comprehend? Jesus.

You say "max him because Wiggins got maxed?" FFS, I've never in my life heard anything so stupid.
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#272 » by BadWolf » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:50 pm

Did Lavine ever say anything about max?
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#273 » by johnnyvann840 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:51 pm

BadWolf wrote:Bulls fans really soured quickly on Lavine.


I was never high on him to begin with. But, even so, simply doing the smart thing. The prudent thing. The only thing that makes ANY sense at all. To let him go get an offer and then decide whether or not we want to match. That is not souring on a player. There are actually people here saying to pay him this or pay him that just for the F of it. Makes no sense at all. Thank God those people are not the GM of the Bulls.

Lavine has all the physical tools in the World. His problem is he doesn't have it between the ears or legs. He is just not a very smart man. On or off the court. FFS, he thought Lake Michigan was an ocean. Seriously. Watch him play and you'll see one of the lowest IQ players in the league. Poor decisions. Bad shots. No anticipation on defense. Cannot grasp simple switching. This all leads to 4 seasons of very negative scoreboard impact. It would be idiocy to just think that he is all of a sudden going to be a different player.
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#274 » by johnnyvann840 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:55 pm

Lotty8989 wrote:What's everybody problem with lavine??? Do you guys not think he can become any better???


And, YES. I think he can become better. He MUST become better than last season. If not, he isn't worth the minimum. In fact, he would have negative value. He would be a player you would give up a pick just to be rid of.
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#275 » by BadWolf » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:56 pm

How many times the free agent process works so that a team say to players 'go get an offer and we'll match it'?n I'm sure there are instances of that, players sign an offer with a different team and it gets matched. but it's not the common way and it's not a way to build a good relationship imo. I think they'll sit together and work something out. 3/45 or maybe 3/60 with option in last year. Doesn't really limit Bulls and is a very nice payday for Zach.
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Re: RE: Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#276 » by samwana » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:58 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:
BadWolf wrote:Bulls fans really soured quickly on Lavine.


I was never high on him to begin with. But, even so, simply doing the smart thing. The prudent thing. The only thing that makes ANY sense at all. To let him go get an offer and then decide whether or not we want to match. That is not souring on a player. There are actually people here saying to pay him this or pay him that just for the F of it. Makes no sense at all. Thank God those people are not the GM of the Bulls.

Lavine has all the physical tools in the World. His problem is he doesn't have it between the ears or legs. He is just not a very smart man. On or off the court. FFS, he thought Lake Michigan was an ocean. Seriously. Watch him play and you'll see one of the lowest IQ players in the league. Poor decisions. Bad shots. No anticipation on defense. Cannot grasp simple switching. This all leads to 4 seasons of very negative scoreboard impact. It would be idiocy to just think that he is all of a sudden going to be a different player.
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#277 » by ReturnofJPR » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:59 pm

Vince Carter and Melo aren't very smart but they are Hall of Fame players due to their talent. Chicago has to lock Lavine up. Face it, free agents don't want to come here despite Kobe and LeBron playing with Bull fans over the years. The Bulls will retain Lavine if it's is not a MAX deal. Only Denver and the Lakers have more cap space than Chicago. Pay Lavine $18 mil per for 3/4 years. With the cap going up every year and Lavine being so young, it's worth the gamble for a rebuilding/bottom feeder team.
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#278 » by johnnyvann840 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:02 pm

SHO'NUFF wrote:
Now Zach is injury free and busting his ass in the off season. Regardless of it being a contract year....he’s a gym rat.


and how do you know this? Fact is, instead of being at the Advocate Center and working out in Chicago, with his teammates, he's in LA working out with his Dad. Maybe he is "busting his ass", maybe he's working on all the wrong things. We don't know. I don't care what "reports" say about his work ethic. I've never seen him work out. have you? You can be a gym rat and not get any better. He needs to be working on the mental part of the game. Being a gym rat could be a bad thing if you are just practicing bad habits over and over. He might be grooving a bad golf swing for all we know. Maybe he tweaked his knee again and is not in Chicago because he is hiding it, MPJ style. So, he can get paid and then we can find out.

The "reports" say that Paxson is not happy about Lavine not being at Advocate and not being in Chicago to work out. Maybe that's why the Bulls aren't universally supporting him anymore. Maybe he said something to the FO they didn't like about his upcoming contract situation. Who knows? Whether he is "busting his ass", loafing, playing around in a gym with his friends and family. It's all just speculation. We don't know. I don't know. You don't know.
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#279 » by TheJordanRule » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:24 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:
BadWolf wrote:Bulls fans really soured quickly on Lavine.


I was never high on him to begin with. But, even so, simply doing the smart thing. The prudent thing. The only thing that makes ANY sense at all. To let him go get an offer and then decide whether or not we want to match. That is not souring on a player. There are actually people here saying to pay him this or pay him that just for the F of it. Makes no sense at all. Thank God those people are not the GM of the Bulls.

Lavine has all the physical tools in the World. His problem is he doesn't have it between the ears or legs. He is just not a very smart man. On or off the court. FFS, he thought Lake Michigan was an ocean. Seriously. Watch him play and you'll see one of the lowest IQ players in the league. Poor decisions. Bad shots. No anticipation on defense. Cannot grasp simple switching. This all leads to 4 seasons of very negative scoreboard impact. It would be idiocy to just think that he is all of a sudden going to be a different player.


Man, I gotta give this post some love, too! Well said JV!
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Re: REPORT: Bulls support for Lavine wavering as he becomes RFA - Lavine threads merged 

Post#280 » by JimmyJammer » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:28 pm

BadWolf wrote:How many times the free agent process works so that a team say to players 'go get an offer and we'll match it'?n I'm sure there are instances of that, players sign an offer with a different team and it gets matched. but it's not the common way and it's not a way to build a good relationship imo. I think they'll sit together and work something out. 3/45 or maybe 3/60 with option in last year. Doesn't really limit Bulls and is a very nice payday for Zach.


I like the 3yr 60mil contract, that's fair market value. I would however frontload the contract on the first year, though. To many fans out here, he must get 12-15 million for them to be comfortable, and meanwhile Tony Snell is making almost 12mil a season. Kent Bazemore and Hardaway Jr are making about 16-17 mil a season. You have other guys like Bradley Beal, Wiggins making close to max.

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