Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M

[WindyCityBorn]

Paxson shut this noise down.

There have been reports that the Bulls wouldn't match if LaVine were offered a huge deal, which might be a possibility, but Paxson said the idea that the Bulls have suddenly soured on LaVine is simply not true.

The Bulls thought LaVine had star power when they acquired him, and they also knew he would need time while returning from a serious injury before they would see it consistently.

There doesn't seem to be any doubt in Paxson's mind that LaVine can still be that guy, and nothing that's happened since his comeback in January has changed that.

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/20180623/rozner-chicago-bulls-lavine-still-in-comeback-mode

[Truebiscuit]

He's the best athlete on our team, just turned 23, and I'm of the opinion he is ascending. He needs to get better on defense but I love his offensive game.

Just curious, why do you think he's ascending? I respect that your opinion differs from mine, just wondering what strides you believe he's made.

By most accounts, he appears to be a hard working player, I just haven't really seen his game advance in any way throughout his career and his bball IQ is on the low end. We all know athleticism doesn't get better with age and bad defenders rarely become decent after 4 years in the league, so those mental strides and knowing where to pick his spots and play within the offense are key to him developing.

I saw him dominate games last season coming off a torn ACL, including taking Jimmy Butler to task to close out and win the Minnesota game. I think he is a tremendous athlete, again just turned 23 years old, and he has such a pure jumper that I think Hoiberg can run him off screens and into shots that I believe Zach will hit at a high clip. We didn't see too much of that last year, but again we were tanking. I think Fred knows his tail on the line and Pax has said he doesn't want to go the tanking route ever again. I think we will get a very good look at what he can do, and listening to K.C. on the radio (sounds like a band name, lol) it sounds like Dunn/LaVine/Markkanen want to be team players and do whatever it takes to help the team win.

His defense MUST get better, there is no denying that.

[MrFortune3]

Paxson shut this noise down.

There have been reports that the Bulls wouldn't match if LaVine were offered a huge deal, which might be a possibility, but Paxson said the idea that the Bulls have suddenly soured on LaVine is simply not true.

The Bulls thought LaVine had star power when they acquired him, and they also knew he would need time while returning from a serious injury before they would see it consistently.

There doesn't seem to be any doubt in Paxson's mind that LaVine can still be that guy, and nothing that's happened since his comeback in January has changed that.

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/20180623/rozner-chicago-bulls-lavine-still-in-comeback-mode

It never made any sense to begin with. He's had 24 games in a Bulls uniform and the Bulls themselves were part of the reason he came back so slowly so as to be careful to not further damage him.

[BullsFTW]

2 year/ $40M with Player Option on the second year?

[Red8911]

He's the best athlete on our team, just turned 23, and I'm of the opinion he is ascending. He needs to get better on defense but I love his offensive game.

Might be a good athlete and is obviously talented offensively but at the same time I think he needs to also improve his IQ on both ends. I know the talented players like to go more one on one and tend to “chuck” up more shots but has to get smarter to do it more effectively.That’s my concern with him along with his knee. Might of been the rust too, I guess we will see in October.

[MrFortune3]

He's the best athlete on our team, just turned 23, and I'm of the opinion he is ascending. He needs to get better on defense but I love his offensive game.

Might be a good athlete and is obviously talented offensively but at the same time I think he needs to also improve his IQ on both ends. I know the talented players like to go more one on one and tend to “chuck” up more shots but has to get smarter to do it more effectively.That’s my concern with him along with his knee. Might of been the rust too, I guess we will see in October.

He was the man on an NBA team for the first time. Coming off a major knee injury and having to adjust to that #1 role without a legit proven 2nd option is a tough ask.
I am not worried about his offensive game, that will come with health, what I want to see is his emergence as a leader of this team and improve on defense.

[Truebiscuit]

He's the best athlete on our team, just turned 23, and I'm of the opinion he is ascending. He needs to get better on defense but I love his offensive game.

Might be a good athlete and is obviously talented offensively but at the same time I think he needs to also improve his IQ on both ends. I know the talented players like to go more one on one and tend to “chuck” up more shots but has to get smarter to do it more effectively.That’s my concern with him along with his knee. Might of been the rust too, I guess we will see in October.

He does, but I do believe that comes with experience/reps/tape study. I really hope he focuses on his defense next season.

[JimmyJammer]

Paxson shut this noise down.

There have been reports that the Bulls wouldn't match if LaVine were offered a huge deal, which might be a possibility, but Paxson said the idea that the Bulls have suddenly soured on LaVine is simply not true.

The Bulls thought LaVine had star power when they acquired him, and they also knew he would need time while returning from a serious injury before they would see it consistently.

There doesn't seem to be any doubt in Paxson's mind that LaVine can still be that guy, and nothing that's happened since his comeback in January has changed that.

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/20180623/rozner-chicago-bulls-lavine-still-in-comeback-mode

Great, that puts to rest the idea that LaVine should not be resigned by the Bulls. I don't know what the numbers will be exactly but LaVine will be resigned to a contract that is fair to both parties involved. Sometimes I really don't understand how fans around here think.

[SensiBull]

What's everybody problem with lavine??? Do you guys not think he can become any better??? If we don't max him and he goes somewhere and shows out will you guys not regret it??? If we going based off potential I say max him because Wiggins got maxed based off potential before last season and tbh in 24 games that zach played in he was better than Wiggins ijs

A. We're not dvvying up tiddlywinks. Fair has nothing to do with it. This isn't our moms slicing a cake into equally sized pieces to avoid internal family quarreling. This is inventing a team strategy and assembling the most unique and inimitable players to execute that philosophy (i.e., small ball's emphasis on lateral quickness at all 5 positions over height). Seemingly useless players suddenly have a role and can be had affordably because other franchises don't see the value or compete for those players.

B. Wiggins has played remarkably better than LaVine in 2 of his past 4 seasons making a more solid case for any debates about 'potential' than LaVine has, including having played 80+ games all four of his years in the league.

C. Minny isn't threatening for the West any time soon and to be honest, Wiggins' Year 4 stats have regressed to those of his Rookie Season. It's not clear that maxing him was even a good move, much less the right one. So why would what they do be our benchmark for anything? (That probably should havee been 'A', frankly. )

[SensiBull]

Vince Carter and Melo aren't very smart but they are Hall of Fame players due to their talent. Chicago has to lock Lavine up. Face it, free agents don't want to come here despite Kobe and LeBron playing with Bull fans over the years. The Bulls will retain Lavine if it's is not a MAX deal. Only Denver and the Lakers have more cap space than Chicago. Pay Lavine $18 mil per for 3/4 years. With the cap going up every year and Lavine being so young, it's worth the gamble for a rebuilding/bottom feeder team.

How many finals-winning championships involved having either VC or Melo on max contracts?

[kulaz3000]

People talk about his basketball IQ, as though he should have that aspect all figured out as a player who has barely played 4 season in the league, and played for 4 different coaches in that span.

Basketball IQ isn't something that a kid is born with, it comes with time and experience, so to ride Zach off as some dumb player is just plain silly. It would be like calling Jordan just simply a scorer who can't win for 8 seasons of his career. Or saying that LeBron doesn't have a killer instinct because he decided to make the right pass, over taking the shot himself.

Point being, it takes time for a player to grow as a decision maker on the basketball court, and often times you have to fail to learn. Zach has all the tools you could ask for in a basketball player, but I think he just needs a little consistency, time and investment in him for him to truly blossom as a player or not.

[johnnyvann840]

People talk about his basketball IQ, as though he should have that aspect all figured out as a player who has barely played 4 season in the league, and played for 4 different coaches in that span.

Basketball IQ isn't something that a kid is born with, it comes with time and experience, so to ride Zach off as some dumb player is just plain silly. It would be like calling Jordan just simply a scorer who can't win for 8 seasons of his career. Or saying that LeBron doesn't have a killer instinct because he decided to make the right pass, over taking the shot himself.

Point being, it takes time for a player to grow as a decision maker on the basketball court, and often times you have to fail to learn. Zach has all the tools you could ask for in a basketball player, but I think he just needs a little consistency, time and investment in him for him to truly blossom as a player or not.

Well, he is a pretty dumb player. really dumb, actually. He has tunnel vision, takes bad shots and his defensive instincts are horrible.

Also, I think basketball IQ is one of the more inherent traits there is in the game. I agree it takes time for the game to slow down and for a player to be able to make good decisions but Zach is beyond that threshold. Should have been after his 2nd season. IMO, you kind of are born with it or you aren't. Instincts are the least changeable thing a player has. Instincts are instincts and after almost 7000 minutes in the league, you should have things figured out, at least to some degree greater than he has. You either have it or you don't. He's not a rookie or a 2nd year player. I don't care that he's been on two different teams. He's been in the NBA for 4 seasons and has played over 6600 minutes.

Also, Zach Lavine's name should not be said in the same breath as Michael Jordan and Lebron James when making analogies.

[RedBulls23]

My biggest issue with Lavine remains that I don't view him as a 1st option, and I worry with his mentality of icing out Lauri and trying to force himself into that role. We saw that happen last year too often. Maybe it was because Lauri was a rookie so he kind took a back seat because of that. Hopefully Lauri becomes more vocal and starts demanding the ball in certain situations.

Also, I think if Lavine remains off the ball more, you take away the likeliness of him taking bad shots away from him.

[SensiBull]

Props to the people saying to let the process play itself out.

All I'm saying is to get ready to let him walk. Someone will make an excessive offer that shouldn't be matched. Let them, and, when they do, you either talk sign-and-trade with that team or let him walk.

There is a high probability that we see the back of him.

We've tried the whole 'surround an uber-athletic scoring young dribble-driving Guard w/shooters and rebounders/drive and kick/play the refs for fouls' thing before. It's old.

The Guard gets beat up in the paint over the years (shout out Derrick Rose). The team flails for an idenity when key players are out(shout out Chris Paul). Defenses key on that one player and practically shut thedwhole squad. down (shout out DerMarr DeRozan). The player's ego turns him against his team (shoutout Westbrook, Kawhi, John Wall).

All these guys put up great numbers, but the wrong culture.

I get why Chicago is so cautious about culture, character and maturity. There is only shard I'd be willing to fight to keep that given LaVine's pre-injury AND post-injury performance, not just one or the other.

The trade has already paid back more than just the cost of Jimmy. The question now becomes this:


"How much more than the Jimmy Butler I've already paid do I want to invest in this same trade, and what kind of return can I realistically expect on that additional, self-imposed cost?


If I triple the salary, will I triple his performance? If he walks, will the drop off (if there even is one, depending on how I use the savings) kill the value of the rest of the trade? Hog-tie the rest of the team?

[Axolotl]

Contracts someone else got have, or should have, nothing whatsoever to do with what kind of contract LaVine gets. We are not considering Wiggins or Felicio, we are considering Zach LaVine.

I'm with johnnyvann on this: let LaVine get an offer, and then decide whether to match or not. That offer is his market value, and there's no reason to pay him more.

[kulaz3000]

Also, Zach Lavine's name should not be said in the same breath as Michael Jordan and Lebron James when making analogies.

The reason why I bought them up is to state that you can't define a person or a player after 4 seasons. Otherwise Jordan would have just been a chucker, or LeBron a choker.

It wasn't said a direct comparison of course. Certain players take more time to understand the game, to know their strengths and weaknesses as a player. Which is why I brought up the lack of consistent environment probably hasn't helped Zach so far.

[kulaz3000]

My biggest issue with Lavine remains that I don't view him as a 1st option, and I worry with his mentality of icing out Lauri and trying to force himself into that role. We saw that happen last year too often. Maybe it was because Lauri was a rookie so he kind took a back seat because of that. Hopefully Lauri becomes more vocal and starts demanding the ball in certain situations.

Also, I think if Lavine remains off the ball more, you take away the likeliness of him taking bad shots away from him.

They barely played 20 games together. Lauri was a rookie, and Zach was getting himself right not only as basketball player, but also as a athlete trusting his body again, and getting his confidence back.

It's a shame that there isn't one more season to feel out those two as a combo before having to make a decision on him, but here we are, let's see how free agency pans out.

[RedBulls23]

My biggest issue with Lavine remains that I don't view him as a 1st option, and I worry with his mentality of icing out Lauri and trying to force himself into that role. We saw that happen last year too often. Maybe it was because Lauri was a rookie so he kind took a back seat because of that. Hopefully Lauri becomes more vocal and starts demanding the ball in certain situations.

Also, I think if Lavine remains off the ball more, you take away the likeliness of him taking bad shots away from him.

They barely played 20 games together. Lauri was a rookie, and Zach was getting himself right not only as basketball player, but also as a athlete trusting his body again, and getting his confidence back.

It's a shame that there isn't one more season to feel out those two as a combo before having to make a decision on him, but here we are, let's see how free agency pans out.

Yes, which is why I made that point.

I'm just saying that issue was there. Regardless if it was just a 20 game sample size or not, I don't envision Lavine being a number 1 option/ball handler type of player, so I'd prefer he play off the ball more if and when he is back next season.

[kulaz3000]

My biggest issue with Lavine remains that I don't view him as a 1st option, and I worry with his mentality of icing out Lauri and trying to force himself into that role. We saw that happen last year too often. Maybe it was because Lauri was a rookie so he kind took a back seat because of that. Hopefully Lauri becomes more vocal and starts demanding the ball in certain situations.

Also, I think if Lavine remains off the ball more, you take away the likeliness of him taking bad shots away from him.

They barely played 20 games together. Lauri was a rookie, and Zach was getting himself right not only as basketball player, but also as a athlete trusting his body again, and getting his confidence back.

It's a shame that there isn't one more season to feel out those two as a combo before having to make a decision on him, but here we are, let's see how free agency pans out.

Yes, which is why I made that point.

I'm just saying that issue was there. Regardless if it was just a 20 game sample size or not, I don't envision Lavine being a number 1 option/ball handler type of player, so I'd prefer he play off the ball more if and when he is back next season.

Why does he need to play off the ball though even if Lauri cements his position as the number option on the offensive end? Lauri is a forward and Zach is a guard, so naturally Zach is going to have the ball in his hands more often. What I want to see is those two being involved in the pick and roll more often, so they can be options together.

I think they are a compelling duo possibility and for it to end after 20 games would be a real shame. I think Lauri would be better off as a player with someone dynamic offensively as Zach and vice versa. I think to be a great player, you need someone else who is really good right there with you to untap that greatness.

[RedBulls23]

They barely played 20 games together. Lauri was a rookie, and Zach was getting himself right not only as basketball player, but also as a athlete trusting his body again, and getting his confidence back.

It's a shame that there isn't one more season to feel out those two as a combo before having to make a decision on him, but here we are, let's see how free agency pans out.

Yes, which is why I made that point.

I'm just saying that issue was there. Regardless if it was just a 20 game sample size or not, I don't envision Lavine being a number 1 option/ball handler type of player, so I'd prefer he play off the ball more if and when he is back next season.

Why does he need to play off the ball though even if Lauri cements his position as the number option on the offensive end? Lauri is a forward and Zach is a guard, so naturally Zach is going to have the ball in his hands more often. What I want to see is those two being involved in the pick and roll more often, so they can be options together.

I think they are a compelling duo possibility and for it to end after 20 games would be a real shame. I think Lauri would be better off as a player with someone dynamic offensively as Zach and vice versa. I think to be a great player, you need someone else who is really good right there with you to untap that greatness.

He needs to be off the ball more because I don't think he's a good decision maker with the ball in his hands. That's where you start seeing him forcing shots, or breaking the offense to take a wild shot.

If he starts showing better decision making that's different, but up till now in his career he hasn't. They tried him at pg/primary ball handler early in his career in Minny and it was a bad.