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Luka Dončić Discussion - Year 2

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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#41 » by Mr B » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:18 pm

arkuo wrote:
Mr B wrote:And I don’t ever expect Doncic to be a lock down defender but as his body improves his quickness should also improve. Also working with Carlisle and the Mavs defensive staff his will definitely improve in that area.


You know, i think the lack of defense part is a bit overblown. Ive been watching him and i do think he's a pretty solid team defender. He's no lock down like Ron Artest. But from what i see is he's very opportunistic. Unlike Bamba who fails to run down the floor to chase his man, I think Luka has good timing with help defense.

In comparison, guys like kobe werent lock down defenders either. But they were very opportunistic too when it came to blocking shots from the weak side for example. Of course that's just me, I guess.

To add to your point, James Harden is 220 lbs. I think if Luka can trim down 10 to 15 lbs he'll be ok. Harden isnt blasting defenders off his speed exactly. He'll be ok with NBA training.


Yea it’s not like he’s Dirk out there letting guys run right around him. Like I said, I think as he refines his body he should improve and be pretty adequate on defense.
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#42 » by burek3 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:24 pm

1) What do you guys think of 14ppg/5reb/7ast/1.5stl/2.5TOV stat line? Let's assume Mavs have 35-47 record @ the end of the season. Still not in the playoffs, but some improvement that can be felt immediately.

2) How would people (the nba watching folks in general/mavs fans) look at it in regards to a rookie year?

3) Let's say 1yr is all we give to this year's rookie class to evaluate them. Would that be bad/bust numbers for a #3 pick? Would you be disappointed? Is everything in the numbers?

4) Would Ayton's/Bagley's/insert player here's possible double double (say, 16/10/3 give or take) but with less win shares season overshadow?

Because there are so many question marks in this post, have some dots: ..........
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#43 » by Jstock12 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:52 pm

burek3 wrote:1) What do you guys think of 14ppg/5reb/7ast/1.5stl/2.5TOV stat line? Let's assume Mavs have 35-47 record @ the end of the season. Still not in the playoffs, but some improvement that can be felt immediately.

2) How would people (the nba watching folks in general/mavs fans) look at it in regards to a rookie year?

3) Let's say 1yr is all we give to this year's rookie class to evaluate them. Would that be bad/bust numbers for a #3 pick? Would you be disappointed? Is everything in the numbers?

4) Would Ayton's/Bagley's/insert player here's possible double double (say, 16/10/3 give or take) but with less win shares season overshadow?

Because there are so many question marks in this post, have some dots: ..........


14/7/5 in the rookie season, for a 20 year old, would be fantastic in my opinion. Although, it also depends on his shooting splits. I hope he shoots threes at the very least at a 35% clip. Averaging 14/7/5 on 43/35/80 shooting splits would be very impressive, and worthy of the ROY consideration.

I personally think a more realistic outcome is him averaging 13ppg/6apg/5rpg/3tov with 41/33/80 splits - I'd be okay with that.
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#44 » by BlueSan » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:56 pm

Ok I ll have a crack at it heh just for funs

1st of all predicting players stats is always very hard because it depends on a lot of factors but for the fun of it lets just dicuss this

1) Assists
When you are talking assists it depends a lot on many factors as with other stats but here we should start with what kind of players Doncic is surounded with on the floor. Are they good shoters, are they good pick and roll guys. Is Center atheltic and a good ally up match up. Whar kind of offense is Carlise executing, how much ISO plays are we going to watch. So before we actually have a team to look at this is even a bigger crap shot.
I do think DSJ can be used extremely well for cutting, I do think some guys, especially center could be added for spreading the floor, I find it quite vital if he is that would be good, but then it depends, how much Doncic will work on his own iso play and his own offensive game driving to the rim. If he does, than we can expect him to drive to the basket and kick out passes out to the open men.
PnR expect if you get people doing that efficiently and if you get a cener that does it well expect 2 assists per game from that alone.
If Doncic will indeed see a lot of ball in his hands and the team will execute well as I think it can I see no reason whatsoever Doncic not averaging at least 5 assists per game minimum. If Dallas is playing better then last year scoing more buckets as a result of team play and ball circling add 1 or two to that as well. I simply dont see a reason why not.

So lets say for the hack of it I predict right now 6 assists for Doncic per game. Take a note assists in NBA are counted when a pass leads directly to a bucket aka when the player receiving the ball goes into a scoring motion or rather tries to go for the bucket in other words a lot more assists as a result are counted in NBA than in Euroleague. So Luka with the same rules would probably have increase in assists in a game just by that alone. Couple that with a longer game, more space on the floor, better shooters, higher scoring games etc and you basically get an increase. It is not so easy though, as we see Milos Teodosic for instance numbers of assists dropped why so? Cause he wasnt the primary ball handler.


2) Rebounds
Rebounds, this is even harder to tell without seeing the system, seeing who the big man will be and so on. One would actually say that in NBA Luka will maybe see less rebounds then in Euroleague and in Real Madrid system or around the same so I ll go with 5 rebounds per game here.

3) Points
I ll say here with him getting more space, having plays run for him, more time on the floor, becoming better shooter, even though guys are longer and more athletic I do expect him to be a good shooter and from the bat I do say I expect him to average around the same as in Euroleague the first year so I ll say 16 points a game.

So for me expectations are = 16 points / 5 rebounds / 6 assists

That is the minimum I expect if they do it right so anything less I ll be disappointed
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#45 » by Yuri Vaultin » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:26 pm

Super jealous
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#46 » by Revived » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:23 am

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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#47 » by Mr B » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:05 am

So how long do you think before he is sleeved out?
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#48 » by Darren » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:15 am

There's too much hype on Luka as of now. I am only sure that Luka is probably better than Lonzo Ball.
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#49 » by RedBulls23 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:13 am

Congrats on landing this kid. I'm definitely super jealous. I think he's going to be the best player from this draft in 2-3 years.
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#50 » by J_T » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:40 am

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/701090/no-luka-doncic-for-slovenia-against-spain-and-montenegro/

Doncic will spend following days around Slovenian national team, but will not play. That group of players is very tight, even Dragic will be there supporting them and he had retired from playing for the national team.
Just as Nowitzki was always very determined to play for the national team, I expect that Doncic doesn't want to miss much either. In this case everything was pointing at Doncic not playing - him having played a billion games in last 18 months, being taken out of summer league and him not having a contract with the Mavs till 7th July (I think?). As a consequence, the Slovenian basketball association would have to pay the full insurance amount and there is no way they were able to afford it. :)
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#51 » by Darren » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:15 am

I think Doncic has to slim down so as to run light on his feet. This resolves a couple of problems:
- converting layup down low
- avoiding turnovers off changing speed
- staying in front of his man
- creating enough space to shoot

This is technically the only must-do list for him. Besides that, he's fine at everything.


Then, here comes the to-do list to the Mavs. Get him the right center
- elite rebounder and shot-blocker
- lob target
- good at pick-n-roll
(Actually, it takes 2 shot-blocking presence at 4/5 on court with him together. I think Dirk's just fine. Powell's on path to be a great teammates with Luka Doncic)

Technically, the best fit to Luka Doncic is 1. Clint Capela 2. DeAndre Jordan 3. Dwight Howard
Indeed, 2 and 3 are not bad. Both takes up more space in paint than Capela. The problem is both don't seem to be long-term answer to the equation. And Dirk's retirement will pose another problem as well. His ideal teammates at 4 is actually Dirk.
- good rebounder and shot-blocker
- elite in shooting from long range.
- good at pick-n-roll
(Hopefully, Powell can mature on time to fill this role.)
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#52 » by J_T » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:45 am

I've been against getting Cousins, but I'd take him over DJ or DH any time. The guy is mentally stronger, as strange as it sounds.
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#53 » by daoneandonly » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:58 am

J_T wrote:I've been against getting Cousins, but I'd take him over DJ or DH any time. The guy is mentally stronger, as strange as it sounds.


That's just sad, but vey true. I hope we don't even entertain the notion of either of those 3. Howard and Cousins are toxic, not to mention Cousins is hobbled and D12 is done. The bridge should be beyond repair with Jordan. Cuban, he made you look like a fool, and now you go groveling at his feet, really a pathetic look.
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#54 » by Archx » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:17 pm

Darren wrote:I think Doncic has to slim down so as to run light on his feet. This resolves a couple of problems:
- converting layup down low
- avoiding turnovers off changing speed
- staying in front of his man
- creating enough space to shoot

This is technically the only must-do list for him. Besides that, he's fine at everything.



Luka played pickup basketball here in Slovenia with some of his friends few hours ago and someone recorded and put on instagram because they were playing outside. Well, he was just walking back and forth, wasn't really running. But the thing is, when he was standing next to some regular skinny guys, he didn't look fat at all. Problem is, he has to convert baby fat into muscle mass. He has to get stronger, gain some muscles and not slim down. Think of how Lebron went from skinny to strong.
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#55 » by Mr B » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:51 pm

So how long do you guys think it will be before Luka is sleeved out in tats?
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#56 » by Archx » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:03 pm

Mr B wrote:So how long do you guys think it will be before Luka is sleeved out in tats?



:lol: :lol:
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#57 » by Mr B » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:04 pm

Archx wrote:
Mr B wrote:So how long do you guys think it will be before Luka is sleeved out in tats?



:lol: :lol:


He has the first one already.
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#58 » by Teal25 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:51 am

I really like him. I didn’t know much about him other than really Realgm hyping him up. For someone to be so huge in Europe to be so humble is amazing. I hope he succeeds and looking forward to see him and DSJ together. Especially since my Hornets will more than likely be fighting for the 8th seed in a 9 team race in the east.
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#59 » by J_T » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:35 pm

Projecting the 2018 NBA Draft Class (Pelton)

This is interesting and definitely one of the most optimistic predictions out there.

ESPN’s Kevin Pelton, who is credited with the invention of the Wins Above Replacement metric, recently analyzed the projected average WARP of top 2018 NBA Draft prospects over their first five seasons in the league.

1) Luka Doncic, Dallas Mavericks (Selected 3rd Overall)
• 5.8 Projected Wins Above Replacement
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
2) Deandre Ayton, Phoenix Suns (Selected 1st Overall)
• 3.2 Projected Wins Above Replacement
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
3) Trae Young, Atlanta Hawks (Selected 5th Overall)
• 3.0 Projected Wins Above Replacement


Apparently it's all time high (started in 2003), previous record was Anthony Davis in 2011 with 5.5. His current top 3 is:
1. Lebron 6.6
2. Harden 3.4
3. Durant 3.2

As I said, it's interesting, although it's just a metric, a stat that could go either way. Personally I have hard time believing that Young is projected to have almost the same WARP as Durant. In other words, there are probably some players where this stat will be extremely skewed. Just hoping that Doncic is not one of them (I think Young is one of them however).
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Re: Discuss New Maverick Luka Doncic 

Post#60 » by BlueSan » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:55 pm

And how did WARP projections panned out from 2003 onward. Do we have an insight into that? heh


Cause otherwise here is the list and 5,8 from the get go gives you Larry Bird in 1980-1981 or Kevin Durant 2009 - 2010, last year Giannis or Jokič are of course bellow haha :P

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/vorp_season.html

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