Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched

[GimmeDat]

I'm pretty upset about the price, but I think you have to tentatively match. Reports are it's a front-loaded 4/78, it's an overpay but it's not a crippling deal.

At worst, he's an overpaid but productive 6th man. At best, he lives up to his contract and he's an All-Star level talent.

But this deal gives us the same cap hit as our actual offer apparently was (4/72). We'll have plenty of space to make moves going forward. I wouldn't act too dramatic about it all.

At worst he's a G League talent demanding a starting gig and taking up a significant amount of your cap space. That's not acceptable.

You can't genuinely think Lavine is a G-League talent, that's just ridiculous.

He's a 20 point a game scorer, who, discounting a 24 game sample last season, was an efficient shooter on a high volume of 3 point attempts.

It's like saying Bulls-era Boozer should've been getting DNP's.

[madvillian]

The market sucks out almost all value you get from players. Which is why re-signing sub-max players hardly ever works.

This is way trading for an impending sub-max free agent was idiotic. We would have been far better keeping the 16.

The trade was a fine roll of the dice. One of the rolls came up snake eyes. Now is not the time to try a saving roll. Just retreat.

[Jcool0]

The Bulls will match, not because he deserves it, he most definitely doesn't, but because the Kings' non-functional-bball-IQ FO gave them cover to. If he does well, the Bulls will say--look we're great at evaluating talent. If he continues to suck, the Bulls FO will tell Jerry--see boss, we paid market, it's just kids are overpaid these days.

So, say goodbye to 2 MAX FAs next year. Shrek and Lavine will make a max FA salary between them while likely being huge net negatives on the court. Brilliant!

Then for the Bulls not to suck for next 3-4 years, you're hoping that a guy that has sucked each time he was asked to be the lead guard has an epiphany that he needs to play off ball, because nobody who understands ball (like most of the top players in the NBA) likes to play with a chucker that both does not like passing, and does not have a clue on D. And if he stunts Lauri's growth, they'll have a riot on their hands.

Or it can all work out. But given that the offer came from the dumbest FO in the entire league, it will be a miracle.

That was NEVER going to happen.

[keloms]

Matching this would be “sign Felicio to $8 million per year at 12:01am” caliber.

A 4yr $32 million guarantee to a guy sitting at the end of the bench is a lot worse than $18m for Lavine.

[GimmeDat]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

18 mil

So 20 mil isnt much of a stretch. Im fine with it

Front loaded as well, the cap hit in the latter 2 years is akin to the 4/72 we offered him in the first place anyway.

[BR0D1E86]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

18 mil

So 20 mil isnt much of a stretch. Im fine with it

I'm hoping he meant per season. He'd still be overpaid, but by less.

[TheGOATRises007]

The Bulls will match, not because he deserves it, he most definitely doesn't, but because the Kings' non-functional-bball-IQ FO gave them cover to. If he does well, the Bulls will say--look we're great at evaluating talent. If he continues to suck, the Bulls FO will tell Jerry--see boss, we paid market, it's just kids are overpaid these days.

So, say goodbye to 2 MAX FAs next year. Shrek and Lavine will make a max FA salary between them while likely being huge net negatives on the court. Brilliant!

Then for the Bulls not to suck for next 3-4 years, you're hoping that a guy that has sucked each time he was asked to be the lead guard has an epiphany that he needs to play off ball, because nobody who understands ball (like most of the top players in the NBA) likes to play with a chucker that both does not like passing, and does not have a clue on D. And if he stunts Lauri's growth, they'll have a riot on their hands.

Or it can all work out. But given that the offer came from the dumbest FO in the entire league, it will be a miracle.

That was NEVER going to happen.

Anything can happen in the NBA.

You need to have cap space during this buddy-buddy era.

[madvillian]

I'm pretty upset about the price, but I think you have to tentatively match. Reports are it's a front-loaded 4/78, it's an overpay but it's not a crippling deal.

At worst, he's an overpaid but productive 6th man. At best, he lives up to his contract and he's an All-Star level talent.

But this deal gives us the same cap hit as our actual offer apparently was (4/72). We'll have plenty of space to make moves going forward. I wouldn't act too dramatic about it all.

At worst he's a G League talent demanding a starting gig and taking up a significant amount of your cap space. That's not acceptable.

You can't genuinely think Lavine is a G-League talent, that's just ridiculous.

He's a 20 point a game scorer, who, discounting a 24 game sample last season, was an efficient shooter on a high volume of 3 point attempts.

Zach Lavine is the Scott Podsednik of the NBA. He's a guy that advanced metrics absolutely killed the value of. He's a guy that looks like a baller, Hits (or scores) and runs like a baller, but when you consider his value relative to what leads to winning it's near replacement.

Sorry Zach, you played in the wrong era, the Analytics Era.

[Dez]

Hoping for a Butler/Leonard type improvement is futile.

And those players were GOOD defensive players prior to their offensive improvement and I'm pretty sure they weren't complete negatives on the court prior to their improvement.

Zach makes his team worse when he plays every single season from on court production.

He's coming from Minnesota which hasn't had a player develop in God knows how long (Wiggins and KAT haven't developed in Minny), I'm prepared to give him a chance in place that has had players develop.

Would I rather have got him cheaper? Of course but this isn't going to kill us in any shape or form.

This is nonsense.

Wiggins hasn't developed, because he's a LOW IQ BUM. Not because he's unable to improve in Minnesota. There's nothing preventing players from developing there.

KAT hasn't done what people expect, because he's probably the most overrated young player in this league. However, he's still planets ahead of Wiggins in terms of being valuable.

Actually it isn't nonsense, it's examples of Minnesota not being able to develop even high level talent.

Lavine has an excellent work ethic from all reports and I'm prepared to give him a shot in a place that isn't Minnesota.

If people are raging at this then they might want to avoid the NBA entirely next off-season because they may just suffer heart attacks at the contracts that are going to be handed out.

It's not a crippling deal, I would have liked a 4/70 million dollar deal but it is what is.

[TheHrvReport]

Match, baby. 20 million with the cap going up is nothing, equivalent to an 11 million/year deal a few years ago. At this teams peak he will be the 3rd highest player which is accurate evaluation for someone with Lavine's potential. By the way, the guy who he's matched up with numbers wise year by year is DeRozan who is being paid 26.5 mil/year.

DeRozan is one of the most overrated players in the league. And probably the worst playoff performer of all time.

Hoping he becomes DeRozan as if that's a good thing....

That's your opinion. He's a 4 time NBA all-star and was All-NBA team twice, so i'll gladly take that for 4 years 80 million.

[BR0D1E86]

Matching this would be “sign Felicio to $8 million per year at 12:01am” caliber.

A 4yr $32 million guarantee to a guy sitting at the end of the bench is a lot worse than $18m for Lavine.

I disagree. Felicio does not actively harm his team. Lavine does. Both are essentially dead cap space players who shouldn't play given that they make their teams worse. But since he makes less it's easier to just bench Felicio.

[TheGOATRises007]

He's coming from Minnesota which hasn't had a player develop in God knows how long (Wiggins and KAT haven't developed in Minny), I'm prepared to give him a chance in place that has had players develop.

Would I rather have got him cheaper? Of course but this isn't going to kill us in any shape or form.

This is nonsense.

Wiggins hasn't developed, because he's a LOW IQ BUM. Not because he's unable to improve in Minnesota. There's nothing preventing players from developing there.

KAT hasn't done what people expect, because he's probably the most overrated young player in this league. However, he's still planets ahead of Wiggins in terms of being valuable.

Actually it isn't nonsense, it's examples of Minnesota not being able to develop even high level talent.

Lavine has an excellent work ethic from all reports and I'm prepared to give him a shot in a place that isn't Minnesota.

If people are raging at this then they might want to avoid the NBA entirely next off-season because they may just suffer heart attacks at the contracts that are going to be handed out.

It's not a crippling deal, I would have liked a 4/70 million dollar deal but it is what is.

Are you insinuating that Wiggins is being held back from his potential(whatever it is, if he even has potential at this point) because of Minnesota? If so, that might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen on here.

[HomoSapien]

Per 36 he averages 22,5, and 4. If he could reach those numbers on better shooting then can we afford to let him walk? He’ll be 27-28 by the end of the contract, so barring injuries it feels like you’d always be able to find a team who would take a flyer on him.

For the record, I still think he’s most likely going to be a Jamal Crawford type of player, but I hate losing assets.

Retweet

Judging players per 36 is a flawed concept.

It’s an imperfect science, but there’s nothing that suggests he’s incapable of it I.E. high foul rate, poor conditioning, etc.

[TheSuzerain]

I hope the Bulls decline to match, Lavine is virtually the same player he was three years ago. He hasn't shown any significant margin of improvement and he will probably never defend his position at higher than a below average level. Paying him 80 million dollars will be exactly that, the Bulls will pay every cent of that contract because he will be impossible to move.

That's not entirely fair. He improved slightly each season until his third when he went down with an ACL injury. And as we've all experience first hand as Bulls fans, you're not going to come back from an ACL injury and expect improvement from the time you went down.

He’s never really improved. Well he has but that’s not the main reason his stats got better.

The most significant change for him in Minny was not internal improvement but rather his role. Each year he was asked to do less and less playmaking (and thinking).

[Jcool0]

The Bulls will match, not because he deserves it, he most definitely doesn't, but because the Kings' non-functional-bball-IQ FO gave them cover to. If he does well, the Bulls will say--look we're great at evaluating talent. If he continues to suck, the Bulls FO will tell Jerry--see boss, we paid market, it's just kids are overpaid these days.

So, say goodbye to 2 MAX FAs next year. Shrek and Lavine will make a max FA salary between them while likely being huge net negatives on the court. Brilliant!

Then for the Bulls not to suck for next 3-4 years, you're hoping that a guy that has sucked each time he was asked to be the lead guard has an epiphany that he needs to play off ball, because nobody who understands ball (like most of the top players in the NBA) likes to play with a chucker that both does not like passing, and does not have a clue on D. And if he stunts Lauri's growth, they'll have a riot on their hands.

Or it can all work out. But given that the offer came from the dumbest FO in the entire league, it will be a miracle.

That was NEVER going to happen.

Anything can happen in the NBA.

You need to have cap space during this buddy-buddy era.

The Bulls can plan to trade for LeBron and KD since anything can happen....

[keloms]

Read on Twitter

He's just trying to save face from the owning he got last week. Dude has been getting away with his garbage reports for years so it's about time someone pointed it out and exposed what a fraud he is.

[madvillian]

Every player in the NBA, or 98%, have an INSANE WORK ETHIC. Why the hell do you think they are pro ballers? Can we stop citing his work ethic? Objectively his work ethic must kinda suck because he's never, ever improved his weaknesses.

Work smarter, not harder.

[TheGOATRises007]

Match, baby. 20 million with the cap going up is nothing, equivalent to an 11 million/year deal a few years ago. At this teams peak he will be the 3rd highest player which is accurate evaluation for someone with Lavine's potential. By the way, the guy who he's matched up with numbers wise year by year is DeRozan who is being paid 26.5 mil/year.

DeRozan is one of the most overrated players in the league. And probably the worst playoff performer of all time.

Hoping he becomes DeRozan as if that's a good thing....

That's your opinion. He's a 4 time NBA all-star and was All-NBA team twice, so i'll gladly take that for 4 years 80 million.

We're now judging players on all star appearances?

The very thing people love to criticize.

DeRozan getting All-NBA team twice is a crime itself as well. Lowry is by far the Raptors' player with the most impact.

But the media love these 1 dimensional inefficient scorers.

[Dez]

This is nonsense.

Wiggins hasn't developed, because he's a LOW IQ BUM. Not because he's unable to improve in Minnesota. There's nothing preventing players from developing there.

KAT hasn't done what people expect, because he's probably the most overrated young player in this league. However, he's still planets ahead of Wiggins in terms of being valuable.

Actually it isn't nonsense, it's examples of Minnesota not being able to develop even high level talent.

Lavine has an excellent work ethic from all reports and I'm prepared to give him a shot in a place that isn't Minnesota.

If people are raging at this then they might want to avoid the NBA entirely next off-season because they may just suffer heart attacks at the contracts that are going to be handed out.

It's not a crippling deal, I would have liked a 4/70 million dollar deal but it is what is.

Are you insinuating that Wiggins is being held back from his potential(whatever it is, if he even has potential at this point) because of Minnesota? If so, that might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen on here.

I'm saying Minnesota can't develop talent.

[imagge]

So a front loaded contract means if he isn’t good in year 3 he will only be making around 17 mil...he’ll make the most in year 1 which does not hurt the Bulls salary cap