Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched

[IrishBeatdown]

Eric Gordon, Jimmy Butler, Barton, Hield, Bogdnovic(Sac), THJ, Redick, Fournier, Josh Richardson, and Middleton are all better than Lavine. All those guys make less, some considerably less.

Bulls could go and completely redeem themselves by getting sac to flip Hield for Lavine, they have the cap space and Vlade is just stupid enough to do it? Even the Lavine troopers would have to be happy with that.

Hell, I'd take Bogdanovic right now.

Is Hield better team player and is good on D? I would take Bogdanovic among these 3 too

Hield is great off ball, one of the best 3pt shooters in the league, and plays decent man D but struggles with rotations at times. It's safe to say his defense is worlds better than Lavine. Hes a willing passer, but not a big time playmaker.

His defense has improved every year in the league, he could mold himself into an elite 3 & D guy.

[Red Larrivee]

Bulls could go and completely redeem themselves by getting sac to flip Hield for Lavine, they have the cap space and Vlade is just stupid enough to do it? Even the Lavine troopers would have to be happy with that.

Hell, I'd take Bogdanovic right now.

Can't happen anymore. Sign and trades are only possible when an offer sheet hasn't been signed.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Hield would’ve been great, but Hayesy is right. We can’t trade Zach for a year without his consent.

[Kurt Heimlich]

Another thing that's grinding my gears - the Kings are getting so got damn lucky at our expense.

First with the lottery, we have the same exact odds as the kings, are sitting in the 6th spot them 7th, and they, leap frog to the 2nd pick, sending us back down to the 7th pick. Which then turns out to be 1 pick away from Bamba.

Now with Zach, they make a total KANGZ offer for him, and we bail them out by matching. Ugh.

[TheFinishSniper]

Read on Twitter

Front office mouthpiece version of this

[DASMACKDOWN]

'

Be a positive impact player when he's on the floor at an allstar level, something he hasn't been yet in his career.

22/5/5 is irrelevant if he's chucking 20 shots a game and turning the ball over 3-4 times a game. Plus being a shiv defensively.

What is the probability that he does become a net-positive? Like we discussed in the other LaVine thread, he isn't lacking in physical tools or talent. Defensively, his actual man-to-man defense is respectable, but his awareness otherwise is trash.

Basically, how correctable are his issues? Most of them seem to be BBIQ and instincts. That's a tougher road defensively, but offensively it should be easier to dial him back.

That's why people don't want to pay him this much money, because of the risk factors of him being a mediocre player.

Especially with his defensive issues he would have to be a high efficient 25+ ppg player to justify playing him when he kills the defense due to his trash awareness. Man defense can almost he irrelevant in today's league due to teams running more motion offenses.

This feels like...
- Ben Simmons isnt worth it because he isn't a shooter.
- Donovan Mitchel isnt worth it because he is a high volume inefficient scorer.

like he has zero chance to improve at 23

Maybe its me that is not focused on the 20 game recovery minute tank restriction of Zach vs the potential recovered 23 year old version of what he was 2 seasons ago.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Read on Twitter

Front office mouthpiece version of this

I think in addition to being a mouthpiece, KC is a lazy thinker, and at times like this it’s hard to tell which foot he’s putting forward.

[gmoney2]

This thread is going to be legendary after Zach averages 25-4-4 on good efficiency next year, and is one of two reasons (Lauri) that we are even in the discussion to sign free agents next offseason.

That’s not an unrealistic scenario. Zach only averaged 27 mins per game since we put him on a minutes restriction. His per 36 min average would have been 22-4-5. Butlers game didn’t blow up until after dengs injury and it really blew up when he started playing 40 mins. Zach had to play with minutes restriction in a contract year, so it’s understandable why he would force the issue as opposed to playing within the flow of the game. With this new contract, he is designated the bulls alpha dog and will get a ton of minutes and a long leash. This will be his and Dunn’s team and if some of that Dunn tenacity on D can rub off on Zach, he may actually reach his own stated goal of being an all star, prob not next year but in a few.

[nomorezorro]

This feels like...
- Ben Simmons isnt worth it because he isn't a shooter.
- Donovan Mitchel isnt worth it because he is a high volume inefficient scorer.

like he has zero chance to improve at 23

Maybe its me that is not focused on the 20 game recovery minute tank restriction of Zach vs the potential recovered 23 year old version of what he was 2 seasons ago.

it seems weird to use two players who were immediately effective in the nba at a younger age than zach lavine as a point of reference here

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

This thread is going to be legendary after Zach averages 25-4-4 on good efficiency next year, and is one of two reasons (Lauri) that we are even in the discussion to sign free agents next offseason.

That’s not an unrealistic scenario. Zach only averaged 27 mins per game since we put him on a minutes restriction. His per 36 min average would have been 22-4-5. Butlers game didn’t blow up until after dengs injury and it really blew up when he started playing 40 mins. Zach had to play with minutes restriction in a contract year, so it’s understandable why he would force the issue as opposed to playing within the flow of the game. With this new contract, he is designated the bulls alpha dog and will get a ton of minutes and a long leash. This will be his and Dunn’s team and if some of that Dunn tenacity on D can rub off on Zach, he may actually reach his own stated goal of being an all star, prob not next year but in a few.

Zach played 37 mpg in year 3. He’s never really been on a short leash. It’s possible he learns to maximize his minutes on the floor, but opportunity isn’t the issue here.

[TheHrvReport]

Surprise surprise .... Bulls matched and Zach is back for 20 mil per How many fans have we lost overnight?

[nomorezorro]

my realistic-optimistic view on lavine is that he could still turn into a very good scorer, which slightly outweighs his still-putrid defense and makes him a positive contributor (albeit one that is not worth $20 million a year)

if there are any examples of comparable dudes whose first four years rated as poorly as lavine's but then the guy panned out in a big way, i'd love to see them. i feel like the most similar happy-ending career arc i can think of is demar derozan? they're not super similar players but still

[Ice Man]

Funny part of this is that Bobby Portis has a legit argument that he should be paid as much or more. Maybe the Bulls will indeed do that hahaha.

He absolutely does have a legit argument, as do Dunn and Lauri.

[IrishBeatdown]

This feels like...
- Ben Simmons isnt worth it because he isn't a shooter.
- Donovan Mitchel isnt worth it because he is a high volume inefficient scorer.

like he has zero chance to improve at 23

Maybe its me that is not focused on the 20 game recovery minute tank restriction of Zach vs the potential recovered 23 year old version of what he was 2 seasons ago.

Ben Simmons and Donovan Mitchell are both dynamic players, adept playmakers, and better than preinjury Zach on D.

The version of Zach Lavine 2 years ago wasn't winning any games for the wolves, yet Mitchell and Simmons boast good on/off numbers on playoff teams who rely on them to initiate the offense.

I get it, you weren't comparing Zach directly to these guys, but they can contribute in other ways other than scoring that make them inherently valuable to their team's success. There is little to no evidence Zach contributes to winning except when he is hitting his shot at efficient levels, and there is even less evidence that he can do it post-ACL.

[Nate3carp]

Anyone know if the first year is on our cap sheet already or if it is still his cap hold until the offer is officially matched? Sorry if already discussed, haven’t been able to keep up with the thread.

[Red8911]

Lavine should be a lot better than last year since he will train all summer and not rehab.Now how better who knows,I’m not expecting too much. My main problem with him is his health, not even the knee but in general I just see him being an injury prone type of player.If he gets another serious injury,bulls are stuck with him and his contract for 4 years unfortunately.

Now that he got his contract without really earning it does he stop working hard like felicio or does he actually want to take the next step and want to win? Thats another concern. As a bulls fan I really hope he proves us all wrong,at this point we need him to be a success if not this signing will set us back.

[TankWilson]

More than Nwaba now, I want us to go after Vonleh and retain him.

There are no minutes for Vonleh. Unless he takes the minimum on one year deal I can't see the Bulls being bothered.

Vonleh>>>> felicio and everyone knows it!

[Benedict Miller]

Hopefully Lavine goes to the next level, either this year or next.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

my realistic-optimistic view on lavine is that he could still turn into a very good scorer, which slightly outweighs his still-putrid defense and makes him a positive contributor (albeit one that is not worth $20 million a year)

if there are any examples of comparable dudes whose first four years rated as poorly as lavine's but then the guy panned out in a big way, i'd love to see them. i feel like the most similar happy-ending career arc i can think of is demar derozan? they're not super similar players but still

DeRozan is the guy that comes to mind.

A net negative on his first contract who turned things around by becoming less tunnel-visiony and by upping his free throw rate.

To me, that's not a high enough upside to pay a hefty speculative contract for. But DeRozan's an impactful player -- maybe the third best guy on a great team? -- so maybe there's some hope there.

I can't think of a second guy though, tbh. I've seen Beal's name tossed around, but that doesn't work for me. Even though his efficiency was ugly those first few seasons, he was worlds better as a playmaker than Zach and had a positive impact on games.

[gmoney2]

This thread is going to be legendary after Zach averages 25-4-4 on good efficiency next year, and is one of two reasons (Lauri) that we are even in the discussion to sign free agents next offseason.

That’s not an unrealistic scenario. Zach only averaged 27 mins per game since we put him on a minutes restriction. His per 36 min average would have been 22-4-5. Butlers game didn’t blow up until after dengs injury and it really blew up when he started playing 40 mins. Zach had to play with minutes restriction in a contract year, so it’s understandable why he would force the issue as opposed to playing within the flow of the game. With this new contract, he is designated the bulls alpha dog and will get a ton of minutes and a long leash. This will be his and Dunn’s team and if some of that Dunn tenacity on D can rub off on Zach, he may actually reach his own stated goal of being an all star, prob not next year but in a few.

Zach played 37 mpg in year 3. He’s never really been on a short leash. It’s possible he learns to maximize his minutes on the floor, but opportunity isn’t the issue here.

Yep at age 21 in year 3 and averaged 18.9-3-3 on a young twolves team that had trouble finding an offensive identity.

The fact that Zach played 10 mins less this year and still averaged 16.7 ppg speaks to his offensive talent. Zach and Lauri can drop 30 pts a piece on any given night; if they both get hot, this offense will be extremely hard to stop. They are the only 2 that can consistently t that on the roster with the other exception being Portis when his outside shot is falling. Lauri will have his ups and down this year as would be expected of a 20 yr old 2nd year player so having a consistent scorer when all else fails is important to the teams success and growth.