OT: John Starks calls draymond green fake tough wouldn't handle 1990 era basketball

[NoLayupRule]

I don't wanna hear it. All the stuff they let skinny Reggie Miller get away with especially when he came to the Garden but somehow Draymond Green wouldn't be able to be who he is in that era. Sure the 90s had more physicality and the Knicks were one of the tougher teams back then but still guys like Pippen would bully them. Rodman was allowed to be who he was, Barkley was allowed to be who he was, why would Draymond not be allowed to be who he was? Even Kevin Garnett might have caught a few more Anthony Peeler type of elbows back in the day but he would still be who he is.

Miller got away with what he did because he had the davis twins with him

and he wasn't talking tough

he was a flopper

Reggie was a known trash talker and he use to get in Stark's head. So what if Reggie had the Davis boys? Are we now going to overrate them and act like they were tougher than some of the bigmen of today? The difference is the game was officiated differently so players had to adjust to the physicality but that doesn't mean there aren't guys from today's era that could thrive under those rules if it was actually allowed today.

you are conflating

I didn't say no one from todays era could thrive under those rules

i agreed that Draymond would have been challenged for his big mouth and questionably dirty play but the many enforcers of the day

[DrCoach]

I don't wanna hear it. All the stuff they let skinny Reggie Miller get away with especially when he came to the Garden but somehow Draymond Green wouldn't be able to be who he is in that era. Sure the 90s had more physicality and the Knicks were one of the tougher teams back then but still guys like Pippen would bully them. Rodman was allowed to be who he was, Barkley was allowed to be who he was, why would Draymond not be allowed to be who he was? Even Kevin Garnett might have caught a few more Anthony Peeler type of elbows back in the day but he would still be who he is.

REGGIE had a big mouth but, never tired to play the tough guy. He was a bean pole and they might have killed him if the connected. Dray tries to play the tough guy and will troll you mercilessly. The 1st time he looked sideways at Oak, He have been smacked like he did Barkley and/or yoked up like he did Pippen.

I met Mase a few times in Baisley Park in Queens before he got drafted. He would have gotten into it with him in practice just to see if he was real.

I met Mase by Baisley Park too. I was making a late night store run to "Al's" (Long St. & Baisley Blvd) and ran into Mase in the joint buying some beer. We kicked it for a few. He was a real one.

It this reminds of the day., I was playing ball in the park with my boys in queens. A Big body Benz with 20's on it, screeches up t the Park and this Huge guy jumps out the car with designs in his hair and a gold front. Yelling.."who wants it, who wants it?"

Well, I thought i was gonna die is drug deal gone bad that day, I almost crapped my pants..

Then one kid slowly says, "Mase?"

Anthony Mason gives a huge smile and says, "Sorry guys, I was just Effin with yall, lets get a quick game"

[2010]

REGGIE had a big mouth but, never tired to play the tough guy. He was a bean pole and they might have killed him if the connected. Dray tries to play the tough guy and will troll you mercilessly. The 1st time he looked sideways at Oak, He have been smacked like he did Barkley and/or yoked up like he did Pippen.

I met Mase a few times in Baisley Park in Queens before he got drafted. He would have gotten into it with him in practice just to see if he was real.

I met Mase by Baisley Park too. I was making a late night store run to "Al's" (Long St. & Baisley Blvd) and ran into Mase in the joint buying some beer. We kicked it for a few. He was a real one.

It this reminds of the day., I was playing ball in the park with my boys in queens. A Big body Benz with 20's on it, screeches up t the Park and this Huge guy jumps out the car with designs in his hair and a gold front. Yelling.."who wants it, who wants it?"

Well, I thought i was gonna die is drug deal gone bad that day, I almost crapped my pants..

Then one kid slowly says, "Mase?"

Anthony Mason gives a huge smile and says, "Sorry guys, I was just Effin with yall, lets get a quick game"

Haha, yup that's def him. Real to the core with no hollywood in him. Just a cool down to earth dude.

Likewise, Jayson Williams (St. John's/Nets) was the same exact way. I used to ball wit him in the city after he did his lil bid for the manslaughter of the chauffeur. Dude was just like one of us. Talking mad schit. Even started cheating and calling b.s. fouls once we got to point game and his squad was losing



But that n*gga is a lil crazy too. Just be saying some random wild schit. Made it totally understandable how that schit wit that chauffeur could have happened that night. Especially wit alcohol involved.

[HEZI]

Miller got away with what he did because he had the davis twins with him

and he wasn't talking tough

he was a flopper

Reggie was a known trash talker and he use to get in Stark's head. So what if Reggie had the Davis boys? Are we now going to overrate them and act like they were tougher than some of the bigmen of today? The difference is the game was officiated differently so players had to adjust to the physicality but that doesn't mean there aren't guys from today's era that could thrive under those rules if it was actually allowed today.

you are conflating

I didn't say no one from todays era could thrive under those rules

i agreed that Draymond would have been challenged for his big mouth and questionably dirty play but the many enforcers of the day

You keep missing my point. The only reason you are even calling them "enforces" is because the rules back then allowed more physical play. How many of these "enforcers" would exist in today's NBA? There is a reason that a guy like Ivan Johnson couldn't last in the NBA because he lacked much skill. Back in the day he would have been a rotation player but today's NBA requires more skill than physical toughness. On what team would Oakley even be a starter on in today's NBA?

[Synciere]

Man I love the toughness of the game back then, but the quality of the game has gone up significantly. Players are more skilled today. I want today’s game with more dunks, if that were possible. But all of you acting like the 90s was some golden era of basketball need to stop it. This ain’t hip hop.

[2010]

Reggie was a known trash talker and he use to get in Stark's head. So what if Reggie had the Davis boys? Are we now going to overrate them and act like they were tougher than some of the bigmen of today? The difference is the game was officiated differently so players had to adjust to the physicality but that doesn't mean there aren't guys from today's era that could thrive under those rules if it was actually allowed today.

you are conflating

I didn't say no one from todays era could thrive under those rules

i agreed that Draymond would have been challenged for his big mouth and questionably dirty play but the many enforcers of the day

You keep missing my point. The only reason you are even calling them "enforces" is because the rules back then allowed more physical play. How many of these "enforcers" would exist in today's NBA? There is a reason that a guy like Ivan Johnson couldn't last in the NBA because he lacked much skill. Back in the day he would have been a rotation player but today's NBA requires more skill than physical toughness. On what team would Oakley even be a starter on in today's NBA?

Oak couldn't create his own shot but I would say he was def skilled. Dude was an excellent rebounder despite no lift. Due to perfect execution of positioning and boxing out.

He also had a MONEY midrange jumpshot.

He was also an underrated passer and loved to start the break by advancing the ball off the rebound with a quick outlet pass upcourt. You had to live with the occasional bonehead pass but it came with the territory.

Lastly, I believe that hustle is a skill and Oak had that in bundles. Dude would throw his body around and all over the floor diving for loose balls, crashing into the stands, etc.

[papz187]

90s Knicks teams were my favorite teams out of any sport, all time....with probably Parcells or early Rex's Jets right behind them.

94 was great, and without Hakeem getting a finger tip on that Starks 3 we win the Finals....99 was awesome too though from that Houston series winning shot to LJ 4 point play vs Indy in the ECF.

Good times......maybe someday they'll gives us some equally as good memories

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[HEZI]

you are conflating

I didn't say no one from todays era could thrive under those rules

i agreed that Draymond would have been challenged for his big mouth and questionably dirty play but the many enforcers of the day

You keep missing my point. The only reason you are even calling them "enforces" is because the rules back then allowed more physical play. How many of these "enforcers" would exist in today's NBA? There is a reason that a guy like Ivan Johnson couldn't last in the NBA because he lacked much skill. Back in the day he would have been a rotation player but today's NBA requires more skill than physical toughness. On what team would Oakley even be a starter on in today's NBA?

Oak couldn't create his own shot but I would say he was def skilled. Dude was an excellent rebounder despite no lift. Due to perfect execution of positioning and boxing out.

He also had a MONEY midrange jumpshot.

He was also an underrated passer and loved to start the break by advancing the ball off the rebound with a quick outlet pass upcourt. You had to live with the occasional bonehead pass but it came with the territory.

Lastly, I believe that hustle is a skill and Oak had that in bundles. Dude would throw his body around and all over the floor diving for loose balls, crashing into the stands, etc.

Was that young Oakley? I don't remember much of him when he was young but the older version I do remember didn't look like he was much better than Crazy Eyes.

[2010]

You keep missing my point. The only reason you are even calling them "enforces" is because the rules back then allowed more physical play. How many of these "enforcers" would exist in today's NBA? There is a reason that a guy like Ivan Johnson couldn't last in the NBA because he lacked much skill. Back in the day he would have been a rotation player but today's NBA requires more skill than physical toughness. On what team would Oakley even be a starter on in today's NBA?

Oak couldn't create his own shot but I would say he was def skilled. Dude was an excellent rebounder despite no lift. Due to perfect execution of positioning and boxing out.

He also had a MONEY midrange jumpshot.

He was also an underrated passer and loved to start the break by advancing the ball off the rebound with a quick outlet pass upcourt. You had to live with the occasional bonehead pass but it came with the territory.

Lastly, I believe that hustle is a skill and Oak had that in bundles. Dude would throw his body around and all over the floor diving for loose balls, crashing into the stands, etc.

Was that young Oakley? I don't remember much of him when he was young but the older version I do remember didn't look like he was much better than Crazy Eyes.

Oak in his prime was way better than KT. He even made the all-star team in '94.

[thebuzzardman]

80's or 90's tough?

Let's talk 70's

Watch on YouTube

[NoLayupRule]

Reggie was a known trash talker and he use to get in Stark's head. So what if Reggie had the Davis boys? Are we now going to overrate them and act like they were tougher than some of the bigmen of today? The difference is the game was officiated differently so players had to adjust to the physicality but that doesn't mean there aren't guys from today's era that could thrive under those rules if it was actually allowed today.

you are conflating

I didn't say no one from todays era could thrive under those rules

i agreed that Draymond would have been challenged for his big mouth and questionably dirty play but the many enforcers of the day

You keep missing my point. The only reason you are even calling them "enforces" is because the rules back then allowed more physical play. How many of these "enforcers" would exist in today's NBA? There is a reason that a guy like Ivan Johnson couldn't last in the NBA because he lacked much skill. Back in the day he would have been a rotation player but today's NBA requires more skill than physical toughness. On what team would Oakley even be a starter on in today's NBA?

you are all over the map

Im not sure what you are even arguing against

you say the difference was the officiating. Sure. But all teams had their bruisers. Teams still do. The difference is back then a guy like Draymond would have a hard time running his mouth because back then players could get physical

that was my point
that was starks point
that seems to be your point but you are arguing so Im not sure


if your next point is that Miller got away with murder back then so Dray would have too then I think its been shown as faulty

and then your next point, again all over the map, is that Oakley wouldn't have been able to play today because he was simply physically tough.

perhaps you didn't see Oak enough.

He was physically and emotionally tough. He was also a very high BBIQn player, a great ball mover, a great pick setter, an all nba level rebounder, a very solid mid range jump shooter, one of the hardest workers on the court every game, and one of the best defenders in the league.

he was tough, but he was also skilled.

people act like he was just dirty. not so.

[QBoro KnicksFan]

Draymond is over rated. Just pass it to curry and klay and you're golden. He is a system guy. Would be a shietty franchise player tho.

This. I pity the team that pays him like he's a franchise player. He's good as a 4th option/glue guy/role player, but if he's your first or second best player that team aint goin anywhere. Epitome of a system player fr fr

[HEZI]

you are conflating

I didn't say no one from todays era could thrive under those rules

i agreed that Draymond would have been challenged for his big mouth and questionably dirty play but the many enforcers of the day

You keep missing my point. The only reason you are even calling them "enforces" is because the rules back then allowed more physical play. How many of these "enforcers" would exist in today's NBA? There is a reason that a guy like Ivan Johnson couldn't last in the NBA because he lacked much skill. Back in the day he would have been a rotation player but today's NBA requires more skill than physical toughness. On what team would Oakley even be a starter on in today's NBA?

you are all over the map

Im not sure what you are even arguing against

you say the difference was the officiating. Sure. But all teams had their bruisers. Teams still do. The difference is back then a guy like Draymond would have a hard time running his mouth because back then players could get physical

that was my point
that was starks point
that seems to be your point but you are arguing so Im not sure


if your next point is that Miller got away with murder back then so Dray would have too then I think its been shown as faulty

and then your next point, again all over the map, is that Oakley wouldn't have been able to play today because he was simply physically tough.

perhaps you didn't see Oak enough.

He was physically and emotionally tough. He was also a very high BBIQn player, a great ball mover, a great pick setter, an all nba level rebounder, a very solid mid range jump shooter, one of the hardest workers on the court every game, and one of the best defenders in the league.

he was tough, but he was also skilled.

people act like he was just dirty. not so.

You think physicality would have stopped Draymond from running his mouth? Did physicality stop Larry Bird from running his mouth? Kevin McHale? There were so many players that loved talking trash and embraced the physicality of that era and even despite all of that the Knicks were still looked at as the villains and one of the most hated teams around the league because they themselves played dirty. Still that didn't stop other players from being who they were and talking trash even when they played the Knicks. If Draymond Green played for the Warriors during the TMC era, he would still be Draymond Green and run his mouth.

[nykballa2k4]

I don't wanna hear it. All the stuff they let skinny Reggie Miller get away with especially when he came to the Garden but somehow Draymond Green wouldn't be able to be who he is in that era. Sure the 90s had more physicality and the Knicks were one of the tougher teams back then but still guys like Pippen would bully them. Rodman was allowed to be who he was, Barkley was allowed to be who he was, why would Draymond not be allowed to be who he was? Even Kevin Garnett might have caught a few more Anthony Peeler type of elbows back in the day but he would still be who he is.

REGGIE had a big mouth but, never tired to play the tough guy. He was a bean pole and they might have killed him if the connected. Dray tries to play the tough guy and will troll you mercilessly. The 1st time he looked sideways at Oak, He have been smacked like he did Barkley and/or yoked up like he did Pippen.

I met Mase a few times in Baisley Park in Queens before he got drafted. He would have gotten into it with him in practice just to see if he was real.

You mean like how he "smacked" Barkley here?

Watch on YouTube

Looks like the only one who got smacked up was Oakley

We watching the same video here? Oak slammed Barkley which started the mess, Barkley shoved him, then Oak landed a glance as Olajuwan interjected. Hakeem took a hit on the cheek bone.

[BigShot Bojan]

we miss you Starks


and hes right


also, just because :

Yeah my guy 2010 dropped that gem on me the other day. Great moment there.

Draymond wouldve fit in, not been a tough guy etc but wouldve handled that era.

and Ben Wallace terrified him..

[Jalen Bluntson]

You keep missing my point. The only reason you are even calling them "enforces" is because the rules back then allowed more physical play. How many of these "enforcers" would exist in today's NBA? There is a reason that a guy like Ivan Johnson couldn't last in the NBA because he lacked much skill. Back in the day he would have been a rotation player but today's NBA requires more skill than physical toughness. On what team would Oakley even be a starter on in today's NBA?

you are all over the map

Im not sure what you are even arguing against

you say the difference was the officiating. Sure. But all teams had their bruisers. Teams still do. The difference is back then a guy like Draymond would have a hard time running his mouth because back then players could get physical

that was my point
that was starks point
that seems to be your point but you are arguing so Im not sure


if your next point is that Miller got away with murder back then so Dray would have too then I think its been shown as faulty

and then your next point, again all over the map, is that Oakley wouldn't have been able to play today because he was simply physically tough.

perhaps you didn't see Oak enough.

He was physically and emotionally tough. He was also a very high BBIQn player, a great ball mover, a great pick setter, an all nba level rebounder, a very solid mid range jump shooter, one of the hardest workers on the court every game, and one of the best defenders in the league.

he was tough, but he was also skilled.

people act like he was just dirty. not so.

You think physicality would have stopped Draymond from running his mouth? Did physicality stop Larry Bird from running his mouth? Kevin McHale? There were so many players that loved talking trash and embraced the physicality of that era and even despite all of that the Knicks were still looked at as the villains and one of the most hated teams around the league because they themselves played dirty. Still that didn't stop other players from being who they were and talking trash even when they played the Knicks. If Draymond Green played for the Warriors during the TMC era, he would still be Draymond Green and run his mouth.

And he would've been checked for it. He gets away with it now. He would have been in brawls back then. That's the point.

[HEZI]

REGGIE had a big mouth but, never tired to play the tough guy. He was a bean pole and they might have killed him if the connected. Dray tries to play the tough guy and will troll you mercilessly. The 1st time he looked sideways at Oak, He have been smacked like he did Barkley and/or yoked up like he did Pippen.

I met Mase a few times in Baisley Park in Queens before he got drafted. He would have gotten into it with him in practice just to see if he was real.

You mean like how he "smacked" Barkley here?

Watch on YouTube

Looks like the only one who got smacked up was Oakley

We watching the same video here? Oak slammed Barkley which started the mess, Barkley shoved him, then Oak landed a glance as Olajuwan interjected. Hakeem took a hit on the cheek bone.

Barkley barely misses his jaw with the left but then tags him with the right. 2:04 mark you can see when it's slowed down where Barkley gets him. Oakley was hitting everybody but Barkley even Patrick took a shot to the back of the head from him

[kane2021]

This **** is so **** corny it’s got me upset. Why come to a knick forum talking **** about the last time we was good? Especially defending the warriors. Dissing our history. Get your ass out of here.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[HEZI]

you are all over the map

Im not sure what you are even arguing against

you say the difference was the officiating. Sure. But all teams had their bruisers. Teams still do. The difference is back then a guy like Draymond would have a hard time running his mouth because back then players could get physical

that was my point
that was starks point
that seems to be your point but you are arguing so Im not sure


if your next point is that Miller got away with murder back then so Dray would have too then I think its been shown as faulty

and then your next point, again all over the map, is that Oakley wouldn't have been able to play today because he was simply physically tough.

perhaps you didn't see Oak enough.

He was physically and emotionally tough. He was also a very high BBIQn player, a great ball mover, a great pick setter, an all nba level rebounder, a very solid mid range jump shooter, one of the hardest workers on the court every game, and one of the best defenders in the league.

he was tough, but he was also skilled.

people act like he was just dirty. not so.

You think physicality would have stopped Draymond from running his mouth? Did physicality stop Larry Bird from running his mouth? Kevin McHale? There were so many players that loved talking trash and embraced the physicality of that era and even despite all of that the Knicks were still looked at as the villains and one of the most hated teams around the league because they themselves played dirty. Still that didn't stop other players from being who they were and talking trash even when they played the Knicks. If Draymond Green played for the Warriors during the TMC era, he would still be Draymond Green and run his mouth.

And he would've been checked for it. He gets away with it now. He would have been in brawls back then. That's the point.

So what you are saying is he would fit right in with that era? I agree

His flagrant fouls and technicals would just be looked at as common fouls and he would have just been another physical player who would occasionally get into it with other players.

[2010]

You mean like how he "smacked" Barkley here?

Watch on YouTube

Looks like the only one who got smacked up was Oakley

We watching the same video here? Oak slammed Barkley which started the mess, Barkley shoved him, then Oak landed a glance as Olajuwan interjected. Hakeem took a hit on the cheek bone.

Barkley barely misses his jaw with the left but then tags him with the right. 2:04 mark you can see when it's slowed down where Barkley gets him. Oakley was hitting everybody but Barkley even Patrick took a shot to the back of the head from him

You sound like you still doubting Oakley's gangsta:

Charles Oakley doesn’t need to say a word for his legend to grow.

The face of the Knicks’ bruising, pushing, plodding, mostly winning teams of the ’90s did in fact open-handed slap Charles Barkley before an NBA players’ union meeting in 1999, according to former pro Chucky Brown.

Brown, whose well-traveled, 13-year career finished after the 2001-02 season, confirmed the long-swirling rumor of the off-court faceoff between two of the league’s premier, and toughest, big men in an interview with the “Jerseys & Dress Shirts podcast,” of which TMZ obtained an early listen before the episode is released Friday.

During the 1998-99 lockout, Brown found himself in a hallway outside a room in which labor discussions were being hashed out, surrounded by NBA stars.

“I’m standing in the hallway talking with Dream [Hakeem Olajuwon],” said Brown, who played for 12 different teams, tying him for an NBA record. “… Barkley was kind of like next to me, talking to this white guy. … I look down the hall, I see Derrick Coleman, Anthony Mason, God bless his soul, and Charles Oakley. And back in the day, they were three of the guys you didn’t want to mess with.”

Oakley, in particular, was menacing, later getting hired by Michael Jordan to be his bodyguard.
“I see Oakley coming, so I’m looking at Oakley, and it looks like he’s looking at me,” Brown said. “Barkley’s standing right over [there]. Oakley and I had gotten into something on the court. I’m thinking I don’t want to fight this dude, but if I gotta do it I gotta do it.

“He walks past me, he walks up to Charles Barkley and was like, ‘What was this s–t you were saying?’ Barkley just kind of looked at him. And Oakley open-handed slapped him.”

According to Brown, the 6-foot-6 Barkley didn’t retaliate against the 6-foot-8 Oakley, at least not then.

https://nypost.com/2017/01/10/charles-oakleys-legendary-slap-of-charles-barkley-confirmed/