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Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" Agrees to 4 year 52$ million deal page 32

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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#121 » by SMTBSI » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:15 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
Scoonie wrote:Signing Smart for $9M per year would put us over the luxury tax limit even before signing Jabari Bird.

Recheck your numbers. Don’t believe so

I have us with ~8.6 mil of space below the tax, as it stands now (before signing Bird).

I presume we will trade or stretch-waive Nader to clear a spot for Bird, but Bird's minimum will be about the same as Nader's '18-'19 salary, so there will be no real savings.

So yes, 9mil puts us just barely in the tax, unless other steps are taken (trading Morris or Yabs, for example).



Numbers:

Spoiler:
31.214295 Hayward
28.928710 Horford
20.099188 Irving
6.700800 Tatum
5.375000 Morris
5.193600 Baynes
5.169960 Brown
3.050390 Rozier
2.667600 Yabusele
1.640400 Williams
1.378242 Theis
1.378242 Ojeleye
1.378242 Nader
0.838464 Wanamaker
0.092857 Jackson (waived+stretched)

115.10599 Total

101.869000 cap
123.733000 tax
129.817000 apron

8.62701 room under tax


1.349383 Bird (QO and 1yos min)
0.064286 Nader (if stretch-waived over 7 years)
0.090000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 5 years)
0.150000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 3 years)
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#122 » by brackdan70 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:22 pm

SMTBSI wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:
Scoonie wrote:Signing Smart for $9M per year would put us over the luxury tax limit even before signing Jabari Bird.

Recheck your numbers. Don’t believe so

I have us with ~8.6 mil of space below the tax, as it stands now (before signing Bird).

I presume we will trade or stretch-waive Nader to clear a spot for Bird, but Bird's minimum will be about the same as Nader's '18-'19 salary, so there will be no real savings.

So yes, 9mil puts us just barely in the tax, unless other steps are taken (trading Morris or Yabs, for example).



Numbers:

Spoiler:
31.214295 Hayward
28.928710 Horford
20.099188 Irving
6.700800 Tatum
5.375000 Morris
5.193600 Baynes
5.169960 Brown
3.050390 Rozier
2.667600 Yabusele
1.640400 Williams
1.378242 Theis
1.378242 Ojeleye
1.378242 Nader
0.838464 Wanamaker
0.092857 Jackson (waived+stretched)

115.10599 Total

101.869000 cap
123.733000 tax
129.817000 apron

8.62701 room under tax


1.349383 Bird (QO and 1yos min)
0.064286 Nader (if stretch-waived over 7 years)
0.090000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 5 years)
0.150000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 3 years)

Great break down. But with stretching contracts you can only do 2 times the years plus one I thought? A one year could be stretched to 3 . 2 year stretched to 5 and so on.
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#123 » by SMTBSI » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:24 pm

On the other hand, trading or stretch+waiving Nader and declining to sign Bird allows us to give Smart in the vicinity of 10mil for the first year.

One possible maneuver could be giving Smart the starting value that would allow us to duck the tax if Bird were not signed, but then signing Bird anyway and taking the gamble that we could easily give Bird away for free if we assess at the deadline that we're not ready to be in the tax yet.

It's hard to imagine not being able to give away one of Yabs or Bird, if not for free, then with a second attached. So there's probably no scenario where we get absolutely forced into the tax against our will.
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#124 » by SMTBSI » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:25 pm

brackdan70 wrote:Great break down. But with stretching contracts you can only do 2 times the years plus one I thought? A one year could be stretched to 3 . 2 year stretched to 5 and so on.

My understanding is that you can pick up option years, but then are still only on the hook for the guaranteed money when you waive the guy. This is what we did with Demetrius Jackson. And Nader has two more fully unguaranteed years after this one

I've never actually gotten rock-solid verification on that, but it's the only way Jackson's stretch+waive seems possible.


Now there's a very good chance we'd rather eat 150k a year for 3 years than 64k a year for 7. Which is why I listed all options.
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#125 » by celticfan42487 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:28 pm

brackdan70 wrote:
SMTBSI wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:Recheck your numbers. Don’t believe so

I have us with ~8.6 mil of space below the tax, as it stands now (before signing Bird).

I presume we will trade or stretch-waive Nader to clear a spot for Bird, but Bird's minimum will be about the same as Nader's '18-'19 salary, so there will be no real savings.

So yes, 9mil puts us just barely in the tax, unless other steps are taken (trading Morris or Yabs, for example).



Numbers:

Spoiler:
31.214295 Hayward
28.928710 Horford
20.099188 Irving
6.700800 Tatum
5.375000 Morris
5.193600 Baynes
5.169960 Brown
3.050390 Rozier
2.667600 Yabusele
1.640400 Williams
1.378242 Theis
1.378242 Ojeleye
1.378242 Nader
0.838464 Wanamaker
0.092857 Jackson (waived+stretched)

115.10599 Total

101.869000 cap
123.733000 tax
129.817000 apron

8.62701 room under tax


1.349383 Bird (QO and 1yos min)
0.064286 Nader (if stretch-waived over 7 years)
0.090000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 5 years)
0.150000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 3 years)

Great break down. But with stretching contracts you can only do 2 times the years plus one I thought? A one year could be stretched to 3 . 2 year stretched to 5 and so on.


Also, we don't want to be RIGHT at the limit.

You're going to want to leave room to sign a post trade deadline cut. Last year was Monroe but easiely could have been Lou Williams or Tyreke Evans. Ainge is going to want flexiability to make trades in season without going in the lux tax.

There's a lot of reasons it's better for Ainge for Smart to take the 6 mil QO and keep that 2.5 mil in his back pocket for in season adjustments.

We're still in a world where NO team has cap space to take on an expiring.

Hell didn't Philly and the Nets in our own division just get paid first round draft picks to take on expiring contracts? It's that bad out there.

And while trading our own first isn't a huge price to pay... I don't think we want to just give up the chance to take on a prospect that could be another Jordan Bell or Semi and allow us to lose guys like Rozier and Smart and still tick on in our current contending run. Draft picks are the key to cheating the salary cap.
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#126 » by SMTBSI » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:34 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:
brackdan70 wrote:
SMTBSI wrote:I have us with ~8.6 mil of space below the tax, as it stands now (before signing Bird).

I presume we will trade or stretch-waive Nader to clear a spot for Bird, but Bird's minimum will be about the same as Nader's '18-'19 salary, so there will be no real savings.

So yes, 9mil puts us just barely in the tax, unless other steps are taken (trading Morris or Yabs, for example).



Numbers:

Spoiler:
31.214295 Hayward
28.928710 Horford
20.099188 Irving
6.700800 Tatum
5.375000 Morris
5.193600 Baynes
5.169960 Brown
3.050390 Rozier
2.667600 Yabusele
1.640400 Williams
1.378242 Theis
1.378242 Ojeleye
1.378242 Nader
0.838464 Wanamaker
0.092857 Jackson (waived+stretched)

115.10599 Total

101.869000 cap
123.733000 tax
129.817000 apron

8.62701 room under tax


1.349383 Bird (QO and 1yos min)
0.064286 Nader (if stretch-waived over 7 years)
0.090000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 5 years)
0.150000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 3 years)

Great break down. But with stretching contracts you can only do 2 times the years plus one I thought? A one year could be stretched to 3 . 2 year stretched to 5 and so on.


Also, we don't want to be RIGHT at the limit.

You're going to want to leave room to sign a post trade deadline cut. Last year was Monroe but easiely could have been Lou Williams or Tyreke Evans. Ainge is going to want flexiability to make trades in season without going in the lux tax.

There's a lot of reasons it's better for Ainge for Smart to take the 6 mil QO and keep that 2.5 mil in his back pocket for in season adjustments.

We're still in a world where NO team has cap space to take on an expiring.

Hell didn't Philly and the Nets in our own division just get paid first round draft picks to take on expiring contracts? It's that bad out there.

And while trading our own first isn't a huge price to pay... I don't think we want to just give up the chance to take on a prospect that could be another Jordan Bell or Semi and allow us to lose guys like Rozier and Smart and still tick on in our current contending run. Draft picks are the key to cheating the salary cap.

The thing is that dodging the tax is only part of the picture. The other question is which do you value more: the ability to add a post trade deadline cut while staying below the tax, or having a nice mid-sized ~10mil contract for salary matching in trades? We can only have one or the other, and each one opens certain opportunities and closes off others.

My gut is to value the mid-sized contract more highly, because the worst-case scenario for going that route is not that we can't sign a post-deadline cut, it's just that we'd have to go into the tax to do so. On the other hand, if we have Smart on the QO, the worst case scenario is flatly not being able to make a legal trade when someone we want comes available.
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#127 » by Homerclease » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:36 pm

SMTBSI wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:
brackdan70 wrote:Great break down. But with stretching contracts you can only do 2 times the years plus one I thought? A one year could be stretched to 3 . 2 year stretched to 5 and so on.


Also, we don't want to be RIGHT at the limit.

You're going to want to leave room to sign a post trade deadline cut. Last year was Monroe but easiely could have been Lou Williams or Tyreke Evans. Ainge is going to want flexiability to make trades in season without going in the lux tax.

There's a lot of reasons it's better for Ainge for Smart to take the 6 mil QO and keep that 2.5 mil in his back pocket for in season adjustments.

We're still in a world where NO team has cap space to take on an expiring.

Hell didn't Philly and the Nets in our own division just get paid first round draft picks to take on expiring contracts? It's that bad out there.

And while trading our own first isn't a huge price to pay... I don't think we want to just give up the chance to take on a prospect that could be another Jordan Bell or Semi and allow us to lose guys like Rozier and Smart and still tick on in our current contending run. Draft picks are the key to cheating the salary cap.

The thing is that dodging the tax is only part of the picture. The other question is which do you value more: the ability to add a post trade deadline cut while staying below the tax, or having a nice mid-sized ~10mil contract for salary matching in trades? We can only have one or the other, and each one opens certain opportunities and closes off others.

My gut is to value the mid-sized contract more highly, because the worst-case scenario for going that route is not that we can't sign a post-deadline cut, it's just that we'd have to go into the tax to do so. On the other hand, if we have Smart on the QO, the worst case scenario is flatly not being able to make a legal trade when someone we want comes available.

They can sign Rozier or Theis to the deal you require next year
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#128 » by SMTBSI » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:37 pm

Homerclease wrote:They can sign Rozier or Theis to the deal you require next year

They sure can. Next year. That won't be any consolation if we miss a prime trade target this year.
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#129 » by Homerclease » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:39 pm

SMTBSI wrote:
Homerclease wrote:They can sign Rozier or Theis to the deal you require next year

They sure can. Next year. That won't be any consolation if we miss a prime trade target this year.

There’s nobody I can think of outside of AD who we can’t pursue until next year anyway
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#130 » by Parliament10 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:39 pm

SMTBSI wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:
Scoonie wrote:Signing Smart for $9M per year would put us over the luxury tax limit even before signing Jabari Bird.

Recheck your numbers. Don’t believe so

I have us with ~8.6 mil of space below the tax, as it stands now (before signing Bird).

I presume we will trade or stretch-waive Nader to clear a spot for Bird, but Bird's minimum will be about the same as Nader's '18-'19 salary, so there will be no real savings.

So yes, 9mil puts us just barely in the tax, unless other steps are taken (trading Morris or Yabs, for example).



Numbers:

Spoiler:
31.214295 Hayward
28.928710 Horford
20.099188 Irving
6.700800 Tatum
5.375000 Morris
5.193600 Baynes
5.169960 Brown
3.050390 Rozier
2.667600 Yabusele
1.640400 Williams
1.378242 Theis
1.378242 Ojeleye
1.378242 Nader
0.838464 Wanamaker
0.092857 Jackson (waived+stretched)

115.10599 Total

101.869000 cap
123.733000 tax
129.817000 apron

8.62701 room under tax


1.349383 Bird (QO and 1yos min)
0.064286 Nader (if stretch-waived over 7 years)
0.090000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 5 years)
0.150000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 3 years)

I say that's about right.

I'm going by Spotrac.com. It's pretty accurate.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/


Edit:
+ $8,620,124 --- Luxury Tax Space
+ $1,378,242 --- Bird, (Nader), Respectively
− $$196,892. --- Nader (Stretched over 7 years)
______________________________________
= ($8,620,124 − $196,892)
= $8,423,232.00 (Max. Tax room)
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#131 » by Homerclease » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:42 pm

Parliament10 wrote:
SMTBSI wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:Recheck your numbers. Don’t believe so

I have us with ~8.6 mil of space below the tax, as it stands now (before signing Bird).

I presume we will trade or stretch-waive Nader to clear a spot for Bird, but Bird's minimum will be about the same as Nader's '18-'19 salary, so there will be no real savings.

So yes, 9mil puts us just barely in the tax, unless other steps are taken (trading Morris or Yabs, for example).



Numbers:

Spoiler:
31.214295 Hayward
28.928710 Horford
20.099188 Irving
6.700800 Tatum
5.375000 Morris
5.193600 Baynes
5.169960 Brown
3.050390 Rozier
2.667600 Yabusele
1.640400 Williams
1.378242 Theis
1.378242 Ojeleye
1.378242 Nader
0.838464 Wanamaker
0.092857 Jackson (waived+stretched)

115.10599 Total

101.869000 cap
123.733000 tax
129.817000 apron

8.62701 room under tax


1.349383 Bird (QO and 1yos min)
0.064286 Nader (if stretch-waived over 7 years)
0.090000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 5 years)
0.150000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 3 years)

I say that's about right.

I'm going by Spotrac.com. It's pretty accurate.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/

+ $8,620,124 --- Luxury Tax Space
+ $1,378,242 --- Bird, (Nader), Respectively
− $$196,892. --- Nader (Stretched over 7 years)
______________________________________
= ($9,998,366 − 196892)
= $9,801,474.00 (Max. Tax room)

Personally I hope they send Nader and Yabu packing so they can sign Bird and leave an open roster spot for a potential in season pickup
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#132 » by SMTBSI » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:42 pm

Homerclease wrote:
SMTBSI wrote:
Homerclease wrote:They can sign Rozier or Theis to the deal you require next year

They sure can. Next year. That won't be any consolation if we miss a prime trade target this year.

There’s nobody I can think of outside of AD who we can’t pursue until next year anyway

You may very well be right. But these things tend to come out of nowhere. Maybe some of y'all did, but I never saw Kyrie wanting out, until he did.

Personally, just from observation, I believe Ainge's #1 priority is flexibility. The flexibility loss of not being able to complete certain trades legally for a season seems to me much greater than the loss of having to potentially give away a Bird or Yabusele or Morris for free if it becomes obvious that we're not close enough to a chip to be willing to start the repeater clock.

And it really doesn't feel that close to me. I really don't want Smart on the QO.
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#133 » by SMTBSI » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:44 pm

Parliament10 wrote:
SMTBSI wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:Recheck your numbers. Don’t believe so

I have us with ~8.6 mil of space below the tax, as it stands now (before signing Bird).

I presume we will trade or stretch-waive Nader to clear a spot for Bird, but Bird's minimum will be about the same as Nader's '18-'19 salary, so there will be no real savings.

So yes, 9mil puts us just barely in the tax, unless other steps are taken (trading Morris or Yabs, for example).



Numbers:

Spoiler:
31.214295 Hayward
28.928710 Horford
20.099188 Irving
6.700800 Tatum
5.375000 Morris
5.193600 Baynes
5.169960 Brown
3.050390 Rozier
2.667600 Yabusele
1.640400 Williams
1.378242 Theis
1.378242 Ojeleye
1.378242 Nader
0.838464 Wanamaker
0.092857 Jackson (waived+stretched)

115.10599 Total

101.869000 cap
123.733000 tax
129.817000 apron

8.62701 room under tax


1.349383 Bird (QO and 1yos min)
0.064286 Nader (if stretch-waived over 7 years)
0.090000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 5 years)
0.150000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 3 years)

I say that's about right.

I'm going by Spotrac.com. It's pretty accurate.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/

+ $8,620,124 --- Luxury Tax Space
+ $1,378,242 --- Bird, (Nader), Respectively
− $$196,892. --- Nader (Stretched over 7 years)
______________________________________
= ($9,998,366 − 196892)
= $9,801,474.00 (Max. Tax room)

Remember that Nader is only 450k guaranteed until August 1st. if we waived him before then, it would be just the 450k stretched over however many years. That accounts for most of the disparity, I think.
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#134 » by Parliament10 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:54 pm

SMTBSI wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:
SMTBSI wrote:I have us with ~8.6 mil of space below the tax, as it stands now (before signing Bird).

I presume we will trade or stretch-waive Nader to clear a spot for Bird, but Bird's minimum will be about the same as Nader's '18-'19 salary, so there will be no real savings.

So yes, 9mil puts us just barely in the tax, unless other steps are taken (trading Morris or Yabs, for example).



Numbers:

Spoiler:
31.214295 Hayward
28.928710 Horford
20.099188 Irving
6.700800 Tatum
5.375000 Morris
5.193600 Baynes
5.169960 Brown
3.050390 Rozier
2.667600 Yabusele
1.640400 Williams
1.378242 Theis
1.378242 Ojeleye
1.378242 Nader
0.838464 Wanamaker
0.092857 Jackson (waived+stretched)

115.10599 Total

101.869000 cap
123.733000 tax
129.817000 apron

8.62701 room under tax


1.349383 Bird (QO and 1yos min)
0.064286 Nader (if stretch-waived over 7 years)
0.090000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 5 years)
0.150000 Nader (if stretch-waived over 3 years)

I say that's about right.

I'm going by Spotrac.com. It's pretty accurate.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/

+ $8,620,124 --- Luxury Tax Space
+ $1,378,242 --- Bird, (Nader), Respectively
− $$196,892. --- Nader (Stretched over 7 years)
______________________________________
= ($9,998,366 − 196892)
= $9,801,474.00 (Max. Tax room)

Remember that Nader is only 450k guaranteed until August 1st. if we waived him before then, it would be just the 450k stretched over however many years. That accounts for most of the disparity, I think.

Yeah. You're Right.

Recalculating . . .


+ $8,620,124 --- Luxury Tax Space
* $1,378,242 --- Bird, (Nader), Respectively
− $$$64,286 --- Nader (Stretched over 7 years)
______________________________________
= ($8,620,124 − $64,286)
= $8,555.838.00 (Max. Tax room)


Is that about right?
"You have to put the work in.
Nothing is given."

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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#135 » by brackdan70 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:00 am

Parliament10 wrote:
SMTBSI wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:I say that's about right.

I'm going by Spotrac.com. It's pretty accurate.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/

+ $8,620,124 --- Luxury Tax Space
+ $1,378,242 --- Bird, (Nader), Respectively
− $$196,892. --- Nader (Stretched over 7 years)
______________________________________
= ($9,998,366 − 196892)
= $9,801,474.00 (Max. Tax room)

Remember that Nader is only 450k guaranteed until August 1st. if we waived him before then, it would be just the 450k stretched over however many years. That accounts for most of the disparity, I think.

Yeah. You're Right.

Recalculating . . .


+ $8,620,124 --- Luxury Tax Space
* $1,378,242 --- Bird, (Nader), Respectively
− $$$64,286 --- Nader (Stretched over 7 years)
______________________________________
= ($8,620,124 − $64,286)
= $8,555.838.00 (Max. Tax room)


Is that about right?

Again I thought a 1 year contract could only be stretched over 3 years... am I wrong here?
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#136 » by celticfan42487 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:01 am

SMTBSI wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:
brackdan70 wrote:Great break down. But with stretching contracts you can only do 2 times the years plus one I thought? A one year could be stretched to 3 . 2 year stretched to 5 and so on.


Also, we don't want to be RIGHT at the limit.

You're going to want to leave room to sign a post trade deadline cut. Last year was Monroe but easiely could have been Lou Williams or Tyreke Evans. Ainge is going to want flexiability to make trades in season without going in the lux tax.

There's a lot of reasons it's better for Ainge for Smart to take the 6 mil QO and keep that 2.5 mil in his back pocket for in season adjustments.

We're still in a world where NO team has cap space to take on an expiring.

Hell didn't Philly and the Nets in our own division just get paid first round draft picks to take on expiring contracts? It's that bad out there.

And while trading our own first isn't a huge price to pay... I don't think we want to just give up the chance to take on a prospect that could be another Jordan Bell or Semi and allow us to lose guys like Rozier and Smart and still tick on in our current contending run. Draft picks are the key to cheating the salary cap.

The thing is that dodging the tax is only part of the picture. The other question is which do you value more: the ability to add a post trade deadline cut while staying below the tax, or having a nice mid-sized ~10mil contract for salary matching in trades? We can only have one or the other, and each one opens certain opportunities and closes off others.

My gut is to value the mid-sized contract more highly, because the worst-case scenario for going that route is not that we can't sign a post-deadline cut, it's just that we'd have to go into the tax to do so. On the other hand, if we have Smart on the QO, the worst case scenario is flatly not being able to make a legal trade when someone we want comes available.


Yeah I hear you. I just don't see 10 million being free'd up that easiely.

Also "not able to make a legal trade", I thought that Smart accepting a Qualifying offer just means he gets a No trade clause. Or is it true it's impossible to trade him. With a no trade clause I could see Smart accepting a trade if one came up that gave him a role. Hell he may even accept it more on the condition the team he's being traded to actually gives him a long term contract.

But I also don't see us being able to trade Yabu or Morris in today'd condition without giving up a first rounder to do so. So I wouldn't want to do that.

I'd also like us to be able to add someone. What if Rozier goes down, or Theis again? I don't want to lose a bench player and regret not being able to replace him. Hell what if Smart decides "THIS IS SPARTA" and kicks himself into a torn ACL one night?

I guess I value the flexibility of adding someone in season as needed more than trading Smart.

That is also because I think it's for the best for us to have Smart's bird rights as a free agent next year. With Irving and Rozier being free agents, and us having the awful Kings first round pick... there are endless variables here where Smart being signed for 10 million for that season can swing from a great thing to a horrible thing.

Also 2019 free agency is going to be literally LOADED with players. I feel pretty comfortable that Smart won't get an offer as an unrestricted free agency for well... as long as it's taken him this off season. He may legit be the 30th best free agent next off season. Irving and Rozier contracts and our decision on wether to match Rozier's or not should long happen before we decide if we want to use our bird rights to resign Smart to what he wants.
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#137 » by SMTBSI » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:01 am

Parliament10 wrote:
SMTBSI wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:I say that's about right.

I'm going by Spotrac.com. It's pretty accurate.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/

+ $8,620,124 --- Luxury Tax Space
+ $1,378,242 --- Bird, (Nader), Respectively
− $$196,892. --- Nader (Stretched over 7 years)
______________________________________
= ($9,998,366 − 196892)
= $9,801,474.00 (Max. Tax room)

Remember that Nader is only 450k guaranteed until August 1st. if we waived him before then, it would be just the 450k stretched over however many years. That accounts for most of the disparity, I think.

Yeah. You're Right.

Recalculating . . .


+ $8,620,124 --- Luxury Tax Space
* $1,378,242 --- Bird, (Nader), Respectively
− $$$64,286 --- Nader (Stretched over 7 years)
______________________________________
= ($8,620,124 − $64,286)
= $8,555.838.00 (Max. Tax room)


Is that about right?

That's within a couple bucks of my numbers.

So like I mentioned before, my current thought process would be to give Smart a contract starting at the value we could clear below the tax if we 1.) traded or stretch-waived Nader, and 2.) declined to sign Bird.

The idea is that we then go ahead and sign Bird anyway, trusting that we would have no problem giving him away later if need be.

This clears another 1.349383 of, I guess you could call it "virtual cap space", giving us 9.940966 to offer Smart for his first year.

With 8% Bird-rule raises, this gives you:

yr1: 9.940966
yr2: 10.73624328
yr3: 11.53152056
yr4: 12.32679784
yr5: 13.12207512

Or about:

3/32.2
4/44.5
5/57.7

Presumably Smart would get a player option on the last year of any of those deals.
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#138 » by SMTBSI » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:02 am

brackdan70 wrote:Again I thought a 1 year contract could only be stretched over 3 years... am I wrong here?



SMTBSI wrote:
brackdan70 wrote:Great break down. But with stretching contracts you can only do 2 times the years plus one I thought? A one year could be stretched to 3 . 2 year stretched to 5 and so on.

My understanding is that you can pick up option years, but then are still only on the hook for the guaranteed money when you waive the guy. This is what we did with Demetrius Jackson. And Nader has two more fully unguaranteed years after this one

I've never actually gotten rock-solid verification on that, but it's the only way Jackson's stretch+waive seems possible.


Now there's a very good chance we'd rather eat 150k a year for 3 years than 64k a year for 7. Which is why I listed all options.
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#139 » by Parliament10 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:03 am

brackdan70 wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:
SMTBSI wrote:Remember that Nader is only 450k guaranteed until August 1st. if we waived him before then, it would be just the 450k stretched over however many years. That accounts for most of the disparity, I think.

Yeah. You're Right.

Recalculating . . .


+ $8,620,124 --- Luxury Tax Space
* $1,378,242 --- Bird, (Nader), Respectively
− $$$64,286 --- Nader (Stretched over 7 years)
______________________________________
= ($8,620,124 − $64,286)
= $8,555.838.00 (Max. Tax room)


Is that about right?

Again I thought a 1 year contract could only be stretched over 3 years... am I wrong here?

Well, what we did with Demetrius Jackson, is pickup his other 2 years (3 yrs total), and Stretching it over 7 years.
I presume, that we'll do the same with Nader.
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Re: Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" 

Post#140 » by Parliament10 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:06 am

SMTBSI wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:
SMTBSI wrote:Remember that Nader is only 450k guaranteed until August 1st. if we waived him before then, it would be just the 450k stretched over however many years. That accounts for most of the disparity, I think.

Yeah. You're Right.

Recalculating . . .


+ $8,620,124 --- Luxury Tax Space
* $1,378,242 --- Bird, (Nader), Respectively
− $$$64,286 --- Nader (Stretched over 7 years)
______________________________________
= ($8,620,124 − $64,286)
= $8,555.838.00 (Max. Tax room)


Is that about right?

That's within a couple bucks of my numbers.

So like I mentioned before, my current thought process would be to give Smart a contract starting at the value we could clear below the tax if we 1.) traded or stretch-waived Nader, and 2.) declined to sign Bird.

The idea is that we then go ahead and sign Bird anyway, trusting that we would have no problem giving him away later if need be.

This clears another 1.349383 of, I guess you could call it "virtual cap space", giving us 9.940966 to offer Smart for his first year.

With 8% Bird-rule raises, this gives you:

yr1: 9.940966
yr2: 10.73624328
yr3: 11.53152056
yr4: 12.32679784
yr5: 13.12207512

Or about:

3/32.2
4/44.5
5/57.7

Presumably Smart would get a player option on the last year of any of those deals.

I think that Bird, is in the mix.
He'll just replace Nader's contract, dollar for dollar. (Seems that Bird gets a year under his belt.)

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