Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" Agrees to 4 year 52$ million deal page 32

[Roddy]

Already looking forward to people complaining about his salary every time he misses a shot or turns the ball over. Like how fans keep whining about Horford being overpaid every time he has a "bad game."


NOT. Sigh.

Just like the Smart boys will told us how great he is when he will steal the ball after bricking a 3pts shot....

[tombattor]

That is not true at all Marcus Smart has a terrible ORTG because he is bad offensive player, @ 97 he is tied with Ojeleye for the worst among rotation players. For his career he is a slightly better 100. Rozier was a 109 lat season both Smart and Rozier had a 104 Defensive Rating which is very good compared to the rest of the team especially the guards.

Yeah saying Smart because the team has a better offensive rating is a pretty horrible stat searching for a narrative that a few minutes of watching the game will say is false.

He's a great defender, he's one of the worst offensive players.

If you had no weaknesses then as a 24 year old player he'd be getting the max.

We also got to chill on rating Smart so highly as a defender, he hasn't even been nominated for an all-defense team in the league for a reason. He's alright, but he isn't game changing. Yet the narrative in this thread talks like he's a DPOY contender.

yeah, a few minutes of watching a game will tell you a lot . I watched almost every minute this season, and I don't think the statistics lie. The stat of the offense performing slightly better with him on the floor is over the course of 54 games at 30 minutes a game, hopefully someone will help me out and post it.

here are a couple articles that point to it at different points in the season though

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2018/03/07/the-celtics-marcus-smart-cant-shoot-heres-why-hes-an-all-star-contributor-though/?utm_term=.29b5ab38faa2

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/12/6/16739088/marcus-smart-shooting-stats-terrible-celtics-offense-works

It's not a narrative I'm trying to fulfill, it's what I see when I watch and statistically backed. He is a bad individual offensive player, I'm not arguing that, but he helps offset it by being a good team offensive player.

You mean you can help the team offensively without shooting the ball well by running the offense, setting up your teammates, creating turnovers resulting in easy shots, etc?

[Feed Your Head]

That is not true at all Marcus Smart has a terrible ORTG because he is bad offensive player, @ 97 he is tied with Ojeleye for the worst among rotation players. For his career he is a slightly better 100. Rozier was a 109 lat season both Smart and Rozier had a 104 Defensive Rating which is very good compared to the rest of the team especially the guards.

Yeah saying Smart because the team has a better offensive rating is a pretty horrible stat searching for a narrative that a few minutes of watching the game will say is false.

He's a great defender, he's one of the worst offensive players.

If you had no weaknesses then as a 24 year old player he'd be getting the max.

We also got to chill on rating Smart so highly as a defender, he hasn't even been nominated for an all-defense team in the league for a reason. He's alright, but he isn't game changing. Yet the narrative in this thread talks like he's a DPOY contender.

yeah, a few minutes of watching a game will tell you a lot . I watched almost every minute this season, and I don't think the statistics lie. The stat of the offense performing slightly better with him on the floor is over the course of 54 games at 30 minutes a game, hopefully someone will help me out and post it.

here are a couple articles that point to it at different points in the season though

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2018/03/07/the-celtics-marcus-smart-cant-shoot-heres-why-hes-an-all-star-contributor-though/?utm_term=.29b5ab38faa2

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/12/6/16739088/marcus-smart-shooting-stats-terrible-celtics-offense-works

It's not a narrative I'm trying to fulfill, it's what I see when I watch and statistically backed. He is a bad individual offensive player, I'm not arguing that, but he helps offset it by being a good team offensive player.

You put it better than I did. Also using all defense is a lame, Kobe made it year after year, well after he stopped making any effort on defense. It rewards guys who go for steals instead of playing disciplined defense. Smarts team defense is all time good, and can go man to man with the best of them.

[GoCeltics123]

I really hope this contract doesn't affect Kyrie's future.

Still nervous about him re-signing

[robdog_5]

I believe were better with him on our team so I'm ok with it. I just wonder what happens a next year. By the way the James Stewart piece about Kyrie I don't believe. Unless of course Spurs are dumb which I don't believe. Kyrie and pick is better than Derozan and pick

[sully00]

That is not true at all Marcus Smart has a terrible ORTG because he is bad offensive player, @ 97 he is tied with Ojeleye for the worst among rotation players. For his career he is a slightly better 100. Rozier was a 109 lat season both Smart and Rozier had a 104 Defensive Rating which is very good compared to the rest of the team especially the guards.

Yeah saying Smart because the team has a better offensive rating is a pretty horrible stat searching for a narrative that a few minutes of watching the game will say is false.

He's a great defender, he's one of the worst offensive players.

If you had no weaknesses then as a 24 year old player he'd be getting the max.

We also got to chill on rating Smart so highly as a defender, he hasn't even been nominated for an all-defense team in the league for a reason. He's alright, but he isn't game changing. Yet the narrative in this thread talks like he's a DPOY contender.

Yet, someone who is one of the worst offensive players is getting a $50M deal. That must mean he's doing well in other areas, right?

This maybe difficult for some to fathom, but there are guys who get paid based on something other than shooting. Like rebounding, shot blocking, defense, ball handling, etc.

I am fine with signing Marcus always been a fan and hated the idea of him being here on the QO I just believe in truth in advertising.

[tombattor]

I really hope this contract doesn't affect Kyrie's future.

Still nervous about him re-signing

It won't. No matter what Smart does, when Kyrie is FA, we'll offer him the max. Whether he takes it or not, is another story.

[ConstableGeneva]

Then your opinion is wrong. The team has a better offensive rating when he is on the floor, and that' across a huge sample size.

That is not true at all Marcus Smart has a terrible ORTG because he is bad offensive player, @ 97 he is tied with Ojeleye for the worst among rotation players. For his career he is a slightly better 100. Rozier was a 109 lat season both Smart and Rozier had a 104 Defensive Rating which is very good compared to the rest of the team especially the guards.

The Celtics offensive rating when Smart was in this year was 108.4, was 107.9 when he was off. When terry was in their rating was 106.7, and when he was off it was 109.7.

The way I'd read this...
Smart is a limited offensive individual player but hasn't hurt the TEAM offense like some people would insist. Saying he has zero offensive game is also hyperbole. Stevens has constantly posted him up against most guards/wings. His FG% within 3 feet of the basket is higher than Rozier's I assume for this reason. Imo, he's our best guard/wing screener. He offensive rebounds or boxes out so others can esp in crucial moments. He's our best PnR passer on the team. Him not hesitating on open threes allows the defense to stay honest and run to him leaving the next guy open for an assist. Sure, you'd want his shooting %s to go up, but there's more to an offense than just shooting the ball.

[Feed Your Head]

I really hope this contract doesn't affect Kyrie's future.

Still nervous about him re-signing

I can't see that being the case, MAYBE it affects Rozier but even that i doubt.

[KGboss]

I really hope this contract doesn't affect Kyrie's future.

Still nervous about him re-signing

I can't see that being the case, MAYBE it affects Rozier but even that i doubt.

Rozier may be gone after this season if Kyrie extends his contract anyway

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[smith2373]

You know the game goes on for 48 minutes, right? Even the guys in there at the end aren't in for the full 12 in the 4th quarter, and that's not saying Brad will or won't close the games with his best defender on the floor.

Sure. But why pay a guy $12 mil a year and use a theoretical matchup as one of the reasons why if you can't even say with confidence he'll be on the floor in crunch time for said matchup?

This has the potential to become a really semantic argument which I don't have time for, so I'll settle for saying Marcus has averaged almost 30 minutes a game for Brad and has consistently been one of the guys that finished out game, especially against really good offensive teams. If everyone is healthy and performing to their max abilities, then maybe, just maybe, Marcus won't be closing out the games, but that is a huge if. That's not a lack of confidence in Marcus, that's a testament to the talent on the roster. Regardless of who is in there in crunch time Marcus playing 25-30 minutes of disruptive, aggravating defense against any good offensive team, especially a perimeter oriented one, will be one of the reasons we'll be a team to take seriously. I get you don't like the money, I disagree but I don't feel the need to argue about it beyond this.

I’m willing to bet he won’t be playing those type of minutes with Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, Brown & Rozier healthy. He has a role on the team but the money and that role don’t correlate to me

I have no issue agreeing to disagree

[Bad-Thoma]

That is not true at all Marcus Smart has a terrible ORTG because he is bad offensive player, @ 97 he is tied with Ojeleye for the worst among rotation players. For his career he is a slightly better 100. Rozier was a 109 lat season both Smart and Rozier had a 104 Defensive Rating which is very good compared to the rest of the team especially the guards.

The Celtics offensive rating when Smart was in this year was 108.4, was 107.9 when he was off. When terry was in their rating was 106.7, and when he was off it was 109.7.

That doesn't change the fact that Marcus Smart's offensive rating was 97 lets get real folks. Nobody is denying Marcus Smart has an impact but stop trying gaslight us with Marcus Smart and his awful shooting somehow is good for the offense.

I will buy that getting stops and turnovers makes it easier for guys like Tatum and Irving and Rozier to be even better offensive players but accept that this is what his happening and not this idea that Marcus Smart shooting 36% on 20% usage is really good offense that the rest of us are too stupid to appreciate.

How is citing the team's ortg with him off and on the floor gas lighting? Over the course of the season the offense performed slightly better with him on the floor than without him despite his glaring offensive flaws. It's not complicated, it doesn't mean he is a great offensive player, it means that people are really over stating how bad of an offensive player he is. What it also means is if his shooting ever finally clicks (big if, I get it) he will be an amazing value as he is already doing enough to be a contributor despite having a horrific shooting %.

[Feed Your Head]

That is not true at all Marcus Smart has a terrible ORTG because he is bad offensive player, @ 97 he is tied with Ojeleye for the worst among rotation players. For his career he is a slightly better 100. Rozier was a 109 lat season both Smart and Rozier had a 104 Defensive Rating which is very good compared to the rest of the team especially the guards.

The Celtics offensive rating when Smart was in this year was 108.4, was 107.9 when he was off. When terry was in their rating was 106.7, and when he was off it was 109.7.

That doesn't change the fact that Marcus Smart's offensive rating was 97 lets get real folks. Nobody is denying Marcus Smart has an impact but stop trying gaslight us with Marcus Smart and his awful shooting somehow is good for the offense.

I will buy that getting stops and turnovers makes it easier for guys like Tatum and Irving and Rozier to be even better offensive players but accept that this is what his happening and not this idea that Marcus Smart shooting 36% on 20% usage is really good offense that the rest of us are too stupid to appreciate.

I don't think anyone is saying he is a good offensive player by himself, but he is a good team offensive player. I mean the offense is better with him in so he certainly isnt bad for the offense.

His ability to run PnRs open up a ton of perimeter shots because defenses have to respect him finding the roll man. He is great at subtle things like spacing out the floor, swinging the ball, and making guys attack mismatches. He also greatly improved his finishing at the rim last year, as well as his shot from 16-23 feet. Him becoming a 35% 3 point shooter isnt as far fetched as many think.

[colaroaster]

8M per would've been acceptable. lets not forget this teams about to become a magnet for free agents chasing a ring, over spending on a marginal/energy player makes zero sense. especially when the player has plateaued.
name a player who sucks more at shooting.. you can't

[Feed Your Head]

Sure. But why pay a guy $12 mil a year and use a theoretical matchup as one of the reasons why if you can't even say with confidence he'll be on the floor in crunch time for said matchup?

This has the potential to become a really semantic argument which I don't have time for, so I'll settle for saying Marcus has averaged almost 30 minutes a game for Brad and has consistently been one of the guys that finished out game, especially against really good offensive teams. If everyone is healthy and performing to their max abilities, then maybe, just maybe, Marcus won't be closing out the games, but that is a huge if. That's not a lack of confidence in Marcus, that's a testament to the talent on the roster. Regardless of who is in there in crunch time Marcus playing 25-30 minutes of disruptive, aggravating defense against any good offensive team, especially a perimeter oriented one, will be one of the reasons we'll be a team to take seriously. I get you don't like the money, I disagree but I don't feel the need to argue about it beyond this.

I’m willing to bet he won’t be playing those type of minutes with Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, Brown & Rozier healthy. He has a role on the team but the money and that role don’t correlate to me

I have no issue agreeing to disagree

Brad LOVES him, he will be around 25 mpg along with Rozier.

[Bad-Thoma]

Sure. But why pay a guy $12 mil a year and use a theoretical matchup as one of the reasons why if you can't even say with confidence he'll be on the floor in crunch time for said matchup?

This has the potential to become a really semantic argument which I don't have time for, so I'll settle for saying Marcus has averaged almost 30 minutes a game for Brad and has consistently been one of the guys that finished out game, especially against really good offensive teams. If everyone is healthy and performing to their max abilities, then maybe, just maybe, Marcus won't be closing out the games, but that is a huge if. That's not a lack of confidence in Marcus, that's a testament to the talent on the roster. Regardless of who is in there in crunch time Marcus playing 25-30 minutes of disruptive, aggravating defense against any good offensive team, especially a perimeter oriented one, will be one of the reasons we'll be a team to take seriously. I get you don't like the money, I disagree but I don't feel the need to argue about it beyond this.

I’m willing to bet he won’t be playing those type of minutes with Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, Brown & Rozier healthy. He has a role on the team but the money and that role don’t correlate to me

I have no issue agreeing to disagree

If we're healthy I too doubt he is playing more than 25, partly to keep him healthy for the playoffs, depth is good.

[OldCeltics]

Marcus despite shut down defense, can have a negative impact on the team, because people play off him on offense, cause he shoots 35%.

He is a role player and should be paid 5-7 million, all of Australia type money. 12 mil is an insane over pay, and will hinder the team. Players like Scary Terry will ask for 16 mil, and Brown/Tatum will ask for 25 mil to max.

[K For Three]

Sign the beast soon!

[Feed Your Head]

Marcus despite shut down defense, can have a negative impact on the team, because people play off him on offense, cause he shoots 35%.

He is a role player and should be paid 5-7 million, all of Australia type money. 12 mil is an insane over pay, and will hinder the team. Players like Scary Terry will ask for 16 mil, and Brown/Tatum will ask for 25 mil to max.

Except it doesn't have a negative impact, because the team is MUCH better with him on the court than off. This is a fact, backed up by a huge sample size.

[tombattor]

Marcus despite shut down defense, can have a negative impact on the team, because people play off him on offense, cause he shoots 35%.

He is a role player and should be paid 5-7 million, all of Australia type money. 12 mil is an insane over pay, and will hinder the team. Players like Scary Terry will ask for 16 mil, and Brown/Tatum will ask for 25 mil to max.

Except the stats show that we are better on offense with him than without. And those stats take into effect his poor shooting.