Marcus Smart free agency Take 2. "He works hard for the money" Agrees to 4 year 52$ million deal page 32

[tombattor]

I know it's a bad deal don't have to be an expert to know that. What is the upside to overpaying when we had leverage? Where is the upside to losing depth? Where is the upside to being a tax repeater now ? And finally what is the upside to his game improving?

Because everything you said here is wrong.

explain how I'm wrong, so far you've added nothing.

Just look at what you wrote. And assume they are all wrong. Then you'll see how they are wrong. But if you want me to break it down...

What is the upside to overpaying when we had leverage? - We didn't have some crazy leverage. Teams just didn't offer him a contract because unless they really went over the top, the Celtics were probably going to match it.

Where is the upside to losing depth? - If we let Smart go, that's losing depth. Isn't that obvious?

Where is the upside to being a tax repeater now ? - It keeps the team in tact. Giving us continuity and shot at improving on last year with Hayward and Kyrie returning, without losing any core players.

And finally what is the upside to his game improving? - What? How about him becoming a better player and helping us...

[tombattor]

A little more context. This would make Marcus the 105th highest player in the league right between Zack Randolph and Patty Mills. According to HoopsHype

But he can't shoot..................

[Feed Your Head]

Because everything you said here is wrong.

explain how I'm wrong, so far you've added nothing.

Just look at what you wrote. And assume they are all wrong. Then you'll see how they are wrong. But if you want me to break it down...

What is the upside to overpaying when we had leverage? - We didn't have some crazy leverage. Teams just didn't offer him a contract because unless they really went over the top, the Celtics were probably going to match it.

Where is the upside to losing depth? - If we let Smart go, that's losing depth. Isn't that obvious?

Where is the upside to being a tax repeater now ? - It keeps the team in tact. Giving us continuity and shot at improving on last year with Hayward and Kyrie returning, without losing any core players.

And finally what is the upside to his game improving? - What? How about him becoming a better player and helping us...

He thinks Nader is a useful player, so don't argue too hard.

[BruceBanner18]

I don’t disagree with you at all. Just curious if it’s a straight 4/52 or not. Incentives have become fairly common

No future orange hair.

Well, he already missed that incentive

Read on Twitter

Smart looks like he's started to get fat since signing his contract.

[Datruth345]

this is a good deal. Somewhere in these Smart threads i said he was worth 12-13 million, i based that on rudimentary examination of deals recently given out and who the other pg/sg's being paid in that range are. I thought that was a reasonable conclusion at the time and looks like it is.

edit: found it

Granted this isn't the way to do this but i consider Marcus Smart a combo guard and if you look at the PG and SG salaries across the league he would slot in around 13 million dollars, I think that's a fair salary to pay him. now what the market has in store for him is a whole different story, but if the celtics or another team could lock him up for a few years around 13 million, that would be a win for both sides.

He is such a fascinating player
-he may be the best wing defender in the league yet has never made an all NBA defense team in his career (probably due to reputation around the league as a flopper and complainer)
-he cant shoot a lick yet the offense runs well with him in charge
-he has a distinct knack for making critical "winning plays"
-teammates say he is a leader and like playing with him
-by all accounts is a nice guy and a great in the community
-although he is still prone to some boneheaded things like punching a picture and missing extended time

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1719395&start=20

As someone else said and i quoted i think this contract has a very Avery Bradley feel to it, alot of people now are thinking its an overpay by 3 or 4 million a year, but by the end of the deal it may look really nice when we look around the league and see where this contract falls.

Hopefully he continues to increase his play-making ability as he matures. I have no hope left in his shot however him operating in the pick and roll and generally running an offense has gotten better and better and can really help stabilize him to a net + on the offensive end in my opinion

[Curmudgeon]

Bye bye Yabu and Nader. Oh, the pain, the pain.

[SMTBSI]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

I'm absolutely baffled. Doing something just slightly other than the standard 8% raises - first year salary off by 54k.

They must have a reason to do this. It's a tiny adjustment to make for absolutely no reason.

There's got to be some way it fits in with either something they plan to do, or how the other salaries on the team change in the coming seasons.

Crap. I've got some work ahead of me.

Not sure of validity and accuracy of any of these tweets.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I think I've figured it out.

First of all, he is actually getting the standard 8% raises. It's just 8% raises on a 4/50 contract, not a 4/52. The four 500k bonuses get tacked on only after that math is done.

As I've pointed out, with this Smart signing, we're 300k away from being able to duck the tax just by moving Yabusele, assuming Smart gets his bonus this year.

What if there is a wink-wink agreement for Smart to "fail" to make the incentive this year, then make it in each of the next three years? We retain our easiest path for ducking the tax (moving Yabs), and he gains an additional 1.5mil on top of what he could have normally made on a no-incentive contract that started low enough to allow us to do that.

Basically it's a sneaky way for us to slide him 1.5mil more than it looked like we were going to be able to.


This is a conspiracy theory, yes. But I bet I'm right. I bet he "fails" to get his incentive this year.

It would be the most Zarren thing ever to arrange this.

[rickrolled]

All we need is to dump Yabu with a 2nd round pick to get under the luxury tax. But also this means rescinding the QO to Bird because it would be meaningless to move Yabu and keep Bird if the teams' goal is avoid the luxury tax. I think Bird would count for the same as Ojeleye, Theis.

No need to dump Morris to sign Bird. I don't think we'll use the MLE unless it's a no brainer like a big name got waived before the trade deadline, then we might use it.

[captain green]

Because everything you said here is wrong.

explain how I'm wrong, so far you've added nothing.

Just look at what you wrote. And assume they are all wrong. Then you'll see how they are wrong. But if you want me to break it down...

What is the upside to overpaying when we had leverage? - We didn't have some crazy leverage. Teams just didn't offer him a contract because unless they really went over the top, the Celtics were probably going to match it.

Where is the upside to losing depth? - If we let Smart go, that's losing depth. Isn't that obvious?

Where is the upside to being a tax repeater now ? - It keeps the team in tact. Giving us continuity and shot at improving on last year with Hayward and Kyrie returning, without losing any core players.

And finally what is the upside to his game improving? - What? How about him becoming a better player and helping us...

1. Leverage was forcing into qo or a better contract deal. No team was going to sign smart to that deal or it would have been offered.
2. Smart would be on the team still with the above qo or better offer now to be under tax we have to trade morris rozier or yabu. Depth lossed
3. Not your money or mine but I'd like to be under than over. Also can't keep team intact now. Someone is out afyer next year now. And we pay tax now.
4. Smart regressed this year in ppg, rpg, ft%, steals per game. Don't worry though he increased his tov per game and fouls per game this year. In a contract year he also punched a wall. Really got rewarded in a contract year while you say he will get better lol ok.
A player that is the supposed lock down defender still hasn't got on all defense team.
But we included a body weight bonus so hopefully he will increase the stats, get on all d team and stay under weight for a bench player.
He better work on stopping his flops and learn to shoot or by year 3 and 4 in this contract were paying 14 mill for bench max guy.

[brackdan70]

All we need is to dump Yabu with a 2nd round pick to get under the luxury tax. But also this means rescinding the QO to Bird because it would be meaningless to move Yabu and keep Bird if the teams' goal is avoid the luxury tax. I think Bird would count for the same as Ojeleye, Theis.

No need to dump Morris to sign Bird. I don't think we'll use the MLE unless it's a no brainer like a big name got waived before the trade deadline, then we might use it.

The QO is a 2 way

[tombattor]

explain how I'm wrong, so far you've added nothing.

Just look at what you wrote. And assume they are all wrong. Then you'll see how they are wrong. But if you want me to break it down...

What is the upside to overpaying when we had leverage? - We didn't have some crazy leverage. Teams just didn't offer him a contract because unless they really went over the top, the Celtics were probably going to match it.

Where is the upside to losing depth? - If we let Smart go, that's losing depth. Isn't that obvious?

Where is the upside to being a tax repeater now ? - It keeps the team in tact. Giving us continuity and shot at improving on last year with Hayward and Kyrie returning, without losing any core players.

And finally what is the upside to his game improving? - What? How about him becoming a better player and helping us...

1. Leverage was forcing into qo or a better contract deal. No team was going to sign smart to that deal or it would have been offered.
2. Smart would be on the team still with the above qo or better offer now to be under tax we have to trade morris rozier or yabu. Depth lossed
3. Not your money or mine but I'd like to be under than over. Also can't keep team intact now. Someone is out afyer next year now. And we pay tax now.
4. Smart regressed this year in ppg, rpg, ft%, steals per game. Don't worry though he increased his tov per game and fouls per game this year. In a contract year he also punched a wall. Really got rewarded in a contract year while you say he will get better lol ok.
A player that is the supposed lock down defender still hasn't got on all defense team.
But we included a body weight bonus so hopefully he will increase the stats, get on all d team and stay under weight for a bench player.
He better work on stopping his flops and learn to shoot or by year 3 and 4 in this contract were paying 14 mill for bench max guy.

Ok buddy.

[tombattor]

I'm absolutely baffled. Doing something just slightly other than the standard 8% raises - first year salary off by 54k.

They must have a reason to do this. It's a tiny adjustment to make for absolutely no reason.

There's got to be some way it fits in with either something they plan to do, or how the other salaries on the team change in the coming seasons.

Crap. I've got some work ahead of me.

Not sure of validity and accuracy of any of these tweets.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I think I've figured it out.

First of all, he is actually getting the standard 8% raises. It's just 8% raises on a 4/50 contract, not a 4/52. The four 500k bonuses get tacked on only after that math is done.

As I've pointed out, with this Smart signing, we're 300k away from being able to duck the tax just by moving Yabusele, assuming Smart gets his bonus this year.

What if there is a wink-wink agreement for Smart to "fail" to make the incentive this year, then make it in each of the next three years? We retain our easiest path for ducking the tax (moving Yabs), and he gains an additional 1.5mil on top of what he could have normally made on a no-incentive contract that started low enough to allow us to do that.

Basically it's a sneaky way for us to slide him 1.5mil more than it looked like we were going to be able to.


This is a conspiracy theory, yes. But I bet I'm right. I bet he "fails" to get his incentive this year.

Conspiracy theory in these situations are never really right. There is no wink-wink agreement for him to miss the incentive. If I had that wink-wink deal, I'd say F-it and make extra $500K and let them deal with it.

[captain green]

explain how I'm wrong, so far you've added nothing.

Just look at what you wrote. And assume they are all wrong. Then you'll see how they are wrong. But if you want me to break it down...

What is the upside to overpaying when we had leverage? - We didn't have some crazy leverage. Teams just didn't offer him a contract because unless they really went over the top, the Celtics were probably going to match it.

Where is the upside to losing depth? - If we let Smart go, that's losing depth. Isn't that obvious?

Where is the upside to being a tax repeater now ? - It keeps the team in tact. Giving us continuity and shot at improving on last year with Hayward and Kyrie returning, without losing any core players.

And finally what is the upside to his game improving? - What? How about him becoming a better player and helping us...

He thinks Nader is a useful player, so don't argue too hard.

Nader is getting waived, and I said a long time ago having a 13 14 15 man that can play 3 positions is useful, wtf dude get bent just cause you don't think he has any value don't make it so doesn't mean he is my binky.
Facts are facts dude.

[captain green]

I swear some people on this board are trolls not fans.

[Marvel]

Good contract for Smart. This team is a contender and i can't wait to see Kyrie and Hayward back.

[Afam]

He needs to be at the gym everyday working on his shooting. That is his weakness, and he needs to address it.

[K For Three]

lol my old man is super excited. He is one of those mega Marcus Smart fans who goes nuts when anyone criticizes him.

[Darth Celtic]

explain how I'm wrong, so far you've added nothing.

Just look at what you wrote. And assume they are all wrong. Then you'll see how they are wrong. But if you want me to break it down...

What is the upside to overpaying when we had leverage? - We didn't have some crazy leverage. Teams just didn't offer him a contract because unless they really went over the top, the Celtics were probably going to match it.

Where is the upside to losing depth? - If we let Smart go, that's losing depth. Isn't that obvious?

Where is the upside to being a tax repeater now ? - It keeps the team in tact. Giving us continuity and shot at improving on last year with Hayward and Kyrie returning, without losing any core players.

And finally what is the upside to his game improving? - What? How about him becoming a better player and helping us...

1. Leverage was forcing into qo or a better contract deal. No team was going to sign smart to that deal or it would have been offered.
2. Smart would be on the team still with the above qo or better offer now to be under tax we have to trade morris rozier or yabu. Depth lossed
3. Not your money or mine but I'd like to be under than over. Also can't keep team intact now. Someone is out afyer next year now. And we pay tax now.
4. Smart regressed this year in ppg, rpg, ft%, steals per game. Don't worry though he increased his tov per game and fouls per game this year. In a contract year he also punched a wall. Really got rewarded in a contract year while you say he will get better lol ok.
A player that is the supposed lock down defender still hasn't got on all defense team.
But we included a body weight bonus so hopefully he will increase the stats, get on all d team and stay under weight for a bench player.
He better work on stopping his flops and learn to shoot or by year 3 and 4 in this contract were paying 14 mill for bench max guy.

Assume having Marcus Smart on the team for the next 4 years is important to us winning a championship.

Assume Danny understands this more than you.

Assume if Smart took the QO this year, next year when 70% of the teams have major cap space, somebody would offer him 12m a year same as us and he'd sign with them to start over bench role and for spite of missing out on 6m the year prior.

Oh, and you don't have to assume. Those are facts. Do you still feel we big against only ourselves, or do you now understand NBA politics, CBA, and all the other stuff most of us around here get? Those who don't study history are destined to repeat it. (Gordon Hayward/ Utah).

[SMTBSI]

I think I've figured it out.

First of all, he is actually getting the standard 8% raises. It's just 8% raises on a 4/50 contract, not a 4/52. The four 500k bonuses get tacked on only after that math is done.

As I've pointed out, with this Smart signing, we're 300k away from being able to duck the tax just by moving Yabusele, assuming Smart gets his bonus this year.

What if there is a wink-wink agreement for Smart to "fail" to make the incentive this year, then make it in each of the next three years? We retain our easiest path for ducking the tax (moving Yabs), and he gains an additional 1.5mil on top of what he could have normally made on a no-incentive contract that started low enough to allow us to do that.

Basically it's a sneaky way for us to slide him 1.5mil more than it looked like we were going to be able to.


This is a conspiracy theory, yes. But I bet I'm right. I bet he "fails" to get his incentive this year.

It would be the most Zarren thing ever to arrange this.

On top of this: depending on what the determining dates are for the incentive, it may be the case that they only need to make the decision on whether Marcus hits or misses the first year incentive after they know whether or not they're going to want to move Yabs. I.E. if we choose to stay in the tax, he can go ahead and bag that last 500k anyway.

[tombattor]

lol my old man is super excited. He is one of those mega Marcus Smart fans who goes nuts when anyone criticizes him.

Is that you Sebastian? LOL.