Official MMA discussion thread: UFC 231 Holloway vs Ortega finally!

[Clyde_Style]

I hope Khabib tortures Conor for 5 rounds.

That fight could turn into some kind of murder porn, because if Conor doesn't land hard shots in the first round and a half, I would not put it past Khabib to prolong the fight.

He will ground and pound Conor for an extra two rounds before submitting him. Just because he can.

My thoughts exactly. Side note-- I carry a lot of Irish in my blood, so completely objective.

And1 the promo video you arse.

Sorry brother, but commands to And1 result in corks up yer arse

Other that, carry on sniffing those corks!

[Clyde_Style]

Good decision? I missed the fight.

It was close enough that you could argue either way. DJ was better on the feet but Cejudo was able to make it a wrestling match for chunks of the rounds that he won by holding better positions.

TJ beats Cody again. Didn't get to see this either. Does Cody have a glass chin?

His chin held up pretty well for how hard he was hit; it was his aggression and offensive focus that cost him imo. He started to sit down on his punches right in the pocket but wasn't moving his head off the line when he threw them. So TJ was able to catch him flush with a couple of HEAVY overhands. It was like a faster version of the first fight, Cody had some real success early and put TJ in a couple of tough positions; then he started fishing for power punches too much and then TJ started to catch him in the trades.

I was more than happy the decision went to Henry. If it had gone to DJ I would have felt pretty crappy about the result. Cejodo IMO clearly won that fight. It was perhaps a thin margin, but not really disputable IMO so I'm glad two of the judges got it right.

For my money, that was one of the best fights in UFC history not because it was a slugfest, but because the drama was so real and it was so close with a contest between equals with a contender pushing the greatest champion in UFC history.

It was a truly great fight by Cejudo. He had a great strategy and it really went to the 5th round with it pretty much deadlocked. And Cejudo cemented the win with a late takedown and a convincing flurry of fists in the last 20 seconds. He totally earned that.

Another thing I'd like to say about Cejudo is he was very awkward throughout the whole TUF show, yet he overcame this social handicap and wow, I mean his victory speech was one of the greatest personal transformations I have ever witnessed. He entered a boy and exited a champion. Amazing! Meanwhile, DJ's concession speech was boring as usual. He was a truly historic champion, but TBH DJ has always been as dull as dishwater.

As far as TJ, I'm a fan. That guy is a legit hardcore fighter who delivers great fights. I always felt Cody was a stupid prick (and Uriah lost a lot of respect from me during that whole juvenile saga). TJ has comported himself well while having his character unfairly disparaged and backed it up with legit wins when it counted. TJ is legit good

[NoStatsGuy]

couldnt watch the early prelim and prelims so far, some thoughts on the main card:

Cejudo faught a hell of a fight, dont wanna take anything away from this win, but i dont think Henry wins vs DJ when fully healthy. This was clearly not the DJ we saw vs borg for example lately. Congrats, nice story, nice guy but not truly the best 125 pounder imo.. i dont know what was going on with DJ and when he got injured in that fight, because i cant really see it. One thing is certain, this was one of the worse performances DJ had in the UFC.

TJ knocking Cody out didntg surprise me. Whenever Cody starts taunting TJ its over
Cody took a good while to go out. He needs to move on fight other guys and improve, he is still really young.

Cejudo - TJ is not what i wanted, lets see if the UFC wants this, while i think it could generate more people being interested due to cejudo nationality, i think the buzz wont be the same.

Fk man, my man Cub Swanson on 3 fight losing streak now, i think thats it for him. Moicano is a straight up beast, what the fk was that jab? SO powerful
I havent seen this dude fight before, im very impressed. He looks like a real contender in the 145 division.

I usually skip thorugh the prelims and early prelims. Anything in specifc worth watching?

[j4remi]

Yep. I saw a replay of the fight after I posted that comment. Cody let his emotions get the best of him. With age comes wisdom. Hopefully.

I really hope so, raw talent wise I think he's got more than TJ. He's faster, has more pop on a more concise delivery and a perfect Takedown defense record so far. But honestly, I'm nervous now for the Alpha Male trajectory. Ludwig left with TJ but then they had Justin Bucholz coaching and things were still good. He left not long ago and I don't think they brought an outside replacement this time. Cody really didn't adjust much and made the same exact kind of mistakes that got him KO'ed last time; but more quickly this time. I REALLY hope they aren't moving backward because it's been my favorite team for a long time.

For my money, that was one of the best fights in UFC history not because it was a slugfest, but because the drama was so real and it was so close with a contest between equals with a contender pushing the greatest champion in UFC history.

Agreed 100%. The fight was super competitive with one guy rising to the level of competition against a guy that was seen as unbeatable. I think the drama and competitiveness in that fight absolutely defines all of the best fights in my eyes. Gus vs Jones, Lawler vs MacDonald 2, Diaz vs Conor...those are recent examples where two fighters push each other and the result is a fight that's better than just the execution in the octagon. Hell, you could add Cub vs Superboy; Hunt vs Big Foot and Stipe vs JDS 1 to that list when those fights had no title implications. This era of picking opponents carefully to protect rankings has made these kinds of match-ups fewer and farther between except at the top and even there we've had so many injuries that we really haven't gotten the "this one will come down to grit and heart and mindset rather than talent" moments as often.

Cejudo - TJ is not what i wanted, lets see if the UFC wants this, while i think it could generate more people being interested due to cejudo nationality, i think the buzz wont be the same.

Fk man, my man Cub Swanson on 3 fight losing streak now, i think thats it for him. Moicano is a straight up beast, what the fk was that jab? SO powerful
I havent seen this dude fight before, im very impressed. He looks like a real contender in the 145 division.

I usually skip thorugh the prelims and early prelims. Anything in specifc worth watching?

No way do I want to see Cejudo vs TJ. DJ needs an immediate rematch if his injuries aren't too bad, after that he is kinda in no man's land though. He's beaten Pettis, Formiga and Reis; Benavidez just lost to Pettis. That leaves number 4 Borg, who has had an extended absence due to his newborn having medical issues so I'm not sure when he gets back (and prayers out to his family for the stress and battle they've fought btw). Number 6, Moraga who has a soft match this month to maybe sell him as next up. Finally 8 Pantoja and the guy I hyped not long ago Dustin Ortiz at 9. Ortiz is on a little run including beating Pantoja and I'd like to see him face a top 5'er for a shot to leap into the title picture. But looking at all of that, nothing compelling yet and no one in the top 5 makes sense.

Moicano is a REAL ONE. Take a look at Moicano vs Brian Ortega, it's a really good fight. He also played matador and made Stephens chase for 3 full rounds which was nice on the technical tip but not very exciting. His loss to Ortega was so good that I've been gassing him ever since. Never seen Cub dropped by a jab before but Renato fights long man, that jab'll shoot through yuh.

Early Prelims had a couple worth checking, Alex Hernandez threw 170 strikes and landed at a 62% clip...in 4 minutes! Then Weili Zhang debuted in the UFC, she's got a big hypetrain as a 115 lbs prospect and her striking was as advertised. She's one to watch since 115 was fairly shallow and now has multiple women leaving to 125; she could fast track her way to stiff competition quickly and those fast risers in shallow divisions are great for betting men to have a good evaluation on.

[NY2TheBay]

That fight could turn into some kind of murder porn, because if Conor doesn't land hard shots in the first round and a half, I would not put it past Khabib to prolong the fight.

He will ground and pound Conor for an extra two rounds before submitting him. Just because he can.

My thoughts exactly. Side note-- I carry a lot of Irish in my blood, so completely objective.

And1 the promo video you arse.

Sorry brother, but commands to And1 result in corks up yer arse

Other that, carry on sniffing those corks!

those corks were made for sniffing and thats just what they do, one of these days those corks are gonna screw you....too.

[Clyde_Style]

My thoughts exactly. Side note-- I carry a lot of Irish in my blood, so completely objective.

And1 the promo video you arse.

Sorry brother, but commands to And1 result in corks up yer arse

Other that, carry on sniffing those corks!

those corks were made for sniffing and thats just what they do, one of these days those corks are gonna screw you....too.

Did you just Nancy Sinatra me?

[NY2TheBay]

Sorry brother, but commands to And1 result in corks up yer arse

Other that, carry on sniffing those corks!

those corks were made for sniffing and thats just what they do, one of these days those corks are gonna screw you....too.

Did you just Nancy Sinatra me?

Yes, yes I did. We'll keep the corks out of it now, though. Thank you kind sir for introducing me to this unique, old practice.

[bringbackhoffa]

the more i think about it, that MSG card with no main event currently..i think the UFC were hoping for DJ to win so he would of gone on to face either TJ or Cody in the main event in a champion vs champion match-up. They still may go that route with TJ and Cejudo but i dont that that is a big enough main event for MSG

[Slo]

the more i think about it, that MSG card with no main event currently..i think the UFC were hoping for DJ to win so he would of gone on to face either TJ or Cody in the main event in a champion vs champion match-up. They still may go that route with TJ and Cejudo but i dont that that is a big enough main event for MSG

Max vs Ortega

[j4remi]

the more i think about it, that MSG card with no main event currently..i think the UFC were hoping for DJ to win so he would of gone on to face either TJ or Cody in the main event in a champion vs champion match-up. They still may go that route with TJ and Cejudo but i dont that that is a big enough main event for MSG

Max vs Ortega

Exactly what I was thinking, they're hoping/waiting for Max to get cleared so they can rebook that up top. It makes me nervous but he legit gets cleared, I'd be happy as hell that's going down in MSG.

[bringbackhoffa]

the more i think about it, that MSG card with no main event currently..i think the UFC were hoping for DJ to win so he would of gone on to face either TJ or Cody in the main event in a champion vs champion match-up. They still may go that route with TJ and Cejudo but i dont that that is a big enough main event for MSG

Max vs Ortega

Exactly what I was thinking, they're hoping/waiting for Max to get cleared so they can rebook that up top. It makes me nervous but he legit gets cleared, I'd be happy as hell that's going down in MSG.

Schuab mentioned with Jones from NY if his case is resolved soon you could go with Jones v Gustafson II

[HarthorneWingo]

the more i think about it, that MSG card with no main event currently..i think the UFC were hoping for DJ to win so he would of gone on to face either TJ or Cody in the main event in a champion vs champion match-up. They still may go that route with TJ and Cejudo but i dont that that is a big enough main event for MSG

Max vs Ortega

Exactly what I was thinking, they're hoping/waiting for Max to get cleared so they can rebook that up top. It makes me nervous but he legit gets cleared, I'd be happy as hell that's going down in MSG.

This is just a hunch, but I think Max could be done. Once you've concussed your head to that extent, recurrence is very likely along with the increased chance of long term brain damage. I hope the UFC is taking care of these fighters who are nothing more than independent contractors to them. Sometimes these guys feel they are so indestructible that they ignore the warning signs.

[Clyde_Style]

Max vs Ortega

Exactly what I was thinking, they're hoping/waiting for Max to get cleared so they can rebook that up top. It makes me nervous but he legit gets cleared, I'd be happy as hell that's going down in MSG.

This is just a hunch, but I think Max could be done. Once you've concussed your head to that extent, recurrence is very likely along with the increased chance of long term brain damage. I hope the UFC is taking care of these fighters who are nothing more than independent contractors to them. Sometimes these guys feel they are so indestructible that they ignore the warning signs.

You have fans in these threads saying fighters like Justin Gaethje are fine because they can take a punch. The UFC is built to feed those fans.

[NoStatsGuy]

Main Event for NY apparently is JBJ vs Gustafsson (typo in name probably?!).

I didnt see of any official announcement, but that fight seems to be in the making at least

[j4remi]

Exactly what I was thinking, they're hoping/waiting for Max to get cleared so they can rebook that up top. It makes me nervous but he legit gets cleared, I'd be happy as hell that's going down in MSG.

This is just a hunch, but I think Max could be done. Once you've concussed your head to that extent, recurrence is very likely along with the increased chance of long term brain damage. I hope the UFC is taking care of these fighters who are nothing more than independent contractors to them. Sometimes these guys feel they are so indestructible that they ignore the warning signs.

You have fans in these threads saying fighters like Justin Gaethje are fine because they can take a punch. The UFC is built to feed those fans.

On Max, his recent interviews are lightyears from what we saw before and if he screwed up water loading, at worst I'd push him to get a legit nutrition team or move up to 155. I don't really trust the UFC to go above and beyond for the guy but the team around him will. They were the ones who made him shut it down this time around and it's a tightknit team so I'd expect them to put his health ahead of anything else.

But Clyde's right about the mentality of MMA heads is a far cry from heads in most sports. Bare in mind though, we're not even 20 years past no weight, one night tournaments being the norm and guys like Dan Henderson and Chael Sonnen (anyone from their generation really) have stories that would make your head explode compared to watching Gaethje fight three times a year...concerns for health have actually improved and I think it's only getting better.

[j4remi]

Schuab mentioned with Jones from NY if his case is resolved soon you could go with Jones v Gustafson II

Main Event for NY apparently is JBJ vs Gustafsson (typo in name probably?!).

I didnt see of any official announcement, but that fight seems to be in the making at least

I haven't seen this from any of the more trustworthy sources so I'm skeptical but that'd be epic.

[j4remi]

Spoiler:

Don't forget to do a preview for tonight's Fight Night

Good call fam, totally slipped my mind but we got a FotY candidate in waiting because Justin Gaethje is fighting. This card actually has a lot of fights with potential to be good too. I'll point out a few that stand out,

Gaethje vs Vick: Vick's riding a hype train off a lot of wins over decent competition but he needs a signature one to break in. Dude's tall and elusive but you can chase him to the cage. He does use his length for good counters though, lots of straight tight punches or collar ties to knees. Gaethje, yall know by now. He covers up, walks forward and counters the second he sees or feels a strike. Dude chops fighters down and even though he's on a losing streak; it's to two of the best in the division. I really think Vick is gassed, but I'm also concerned about Gaethje doing quick turn arounds after back to back KO's. I still had the confidence to put a nice bet on Gaethje though. His pressure should force some mistakes outta Vick and he'll capitalize where the decent cats couldn't.

Michael Johnson is coming back against Andre Fili at 145 now. The dude is an enigma. He's beaten Ferguson, Barboza and Poirier in the past but he's been getting smoked lately...though it's mostly against top dudes. He just hasn't looked all there lately. So this is a fight where he should win and hopefully get going to find his rhythm again (because he's got great hands); but Fili will take advantage if Johnson's off his game.

Moraga is fighting 14-0 Figueiredo. That's a former contender vs one of the best prospects in the game. Moraga flashed a bit of power in fights lately which is nice to add to his game. Dude is a really crisp striker with a nice bit of submissions on his record. He's fought everybody too, real vet. Figueiredo is unorthodox plus high paced. The guy has great timing on level changes and just keeps pressure on between strikes and takedowns to sub attempts, but he hasn't fought a Moraga caliber guy. I really came away impressed with Moraga's past couple of performances and think this is a step up a bit too high to soon for Figueiredo but it's gonna be a hell of a fight.

Then you got Warrly Alves, last man to beat Colby Covington, up against really solid all around guy James Krause. Alves should be rated higher than he is but I really like Krause and am pulling for him to get some momentum.

Eryk Anders lost all his momentum to Lyoto Machida, but he looked promising before that.

Angela Hill and Cortney Casey both like to SCRAP! So that should be a lot of fun. Hill is the better striker imo but Casey should have some size (everyone does it seems like with Hill). I like Hill in this one.

Joanne Calderwood had a crazy intense staredown so I'm curious to see how she performs and then my dude Luke Sanders is fighting a dangerous opponent in Rani Yaya. Those two are on fight pass but should be worth a look too.

[HarthorneWingo]

I read an article on Joanne Calderwood today. The said that she moved her training to the UFC Performance Center because she wasn't training the right way or intensely enough. Says she now knows what it takes to be a professional, etc. Should be interesting to see if it's made a difference for her.

I think the Hill-Casey fight should be real good.

Looks like a pretty good card overall.

Thanks Remi.

[HarthorneWingo]

Pretty good card so far tonight (sans the Ellenberger fight).

[j4remi]

Pretty good card so far tonight (sans the Ellenberger fight).

Yeah, a lot of competitive fights. Casey/Hill and Johnson/Fili both came through and coulda gone to either fighter. I'm hype for my guy Krause too, huge performance for him. Now Gaethje gets to bring his usual brand of fight of the night performance.