Woj Knicks plan to cut Noah - Update Pg 52: Noah Will Be Cut Next Wk

[cuyankees]

I don't understand what leverage KP has to make the Knicks pay him.

They can simply say "Whether you play this season or not is entirely up to you. We will sign you to an extension after we've allocated the cap to improve the team next summer."

I don't understand why Porzingis would be mad about that. It doesn't affect when KP sees the extension money, and it gives him a shot to play with another all-star.

It's not like they are asking him to play another season on his QO or something.

In that scenario yes of course KP would do that, but you had said it would be dumb to pay him the max before seeing him play... So which is it? See the problem now? There’s risk on both sides and KP has the leverage...

Not really.

We can be fine paying KP after we've hedged our bets by maximizing the cap and signing more talent.

Paying him before maximizing the cap is the scenario where risk resides for the Knicks, which is why they will avoid it.

That’s super risky, delay KP’s contract, tell him to kick rocks, sit out the year w potential of him leaving for the chance of signing a FA. In life, you focus on what you can control so can’t see any management team in any business, doing that.

You max KP, he plays this year, he’s happy etc etc, trade Lee and you have a max slot. That’s the best scenario but requires stomaching the leverage teams will hold over you to unload Lee.

[cuyankees]

Embiid was extended October 9th. Wiggins October 11th

The season started October 17th

Semantics have it!

Firstly, a week difference is not "semantics"

Secondly, as Deeeez posted, there is a deadline before the season starts for when you can agree to a rookie scale extension, so we literally can't extend KP mid season

According to Article VII, Section 7(b)(1) of the CBA, an extension of a rookie scale contract can only happen from 12:01pm Eastern on the last day of the July Moratorium to 6 p.m. Eastern on the day before the first day of the regular season of the second option year (fourth and final season) of the player’s rookie scale contract.

Thought everyone knew that, which is why I’ve said numerous times that KP is coming back this year and there’s a deadline to offer a max. I would never bet that KP takes the courts this year wout a max by Oct.

[GONYK]

In that scenario yes of course KP would do that, but you had said it would be dumb to pay him the max before seeing him play... So which is it? See the problem now? There’s risk on both sides and KP has the leverage...

Not really.

We can be fine paying KP after we've hedged our bets by maximizing the cap and signing more talent.

Paying him before maximizing the cap is the scenario where risk resides for the Knicks, which is why they will avoid it.

That’s super risky, delay KP’s contract, tell him to kick rocks, sit out the year w potential of him leaving for the chance of signing a FA. In life, you focus on what you can control so can’t see any management team in any business, doing that.

You max KP, he plays this year, he’s happy etc etc, trade Lee and you have a max slot. That’s the best scenario but requires stomaching the leverage teams will hold over you to unload Lee.

We aren't delaying KP's money in either scenario. He doesn't get paid any sooner.

Why do we care if KP plays this year?

I don't understand why you think the Knicks will destroy their Bird Rights advantage in free agency and possibly have to move assets to create space just so KP can feel financially safe playing in a season that doesn't matter.

[cuyankees]

He’s against signing anyone in 2019 and clinging to every road block he can to convince himself it’s impossible & Pills are dumb to even consider it

I’m playing being an irrational fanatic who thinks that players take discounts to come to the Knicks, players who have “understandings” about a max deal for delaying it, and thinking THJ & Lee have + value in any trade.

Lets be real here. KP is going to get his money regardless. Every top lottery pick gets that extension. However, it's in his best interest to sign after the Knicks pair him with another established star. KP and Janis are very brand conscious. They know nothing matters unless he takes his game to the playoffs and wins there. Getting his money months earlier and it costing him the ability to get more big time talent on the team does him no favors. He is a student of the game. I don't think he wants to end up being the next Ewing or Melo by getting his money mere months early at the expense of a supporting cast.

So you’re saying KP doesn’t sign a max by Oct, plays this year or sits out all for the sake of chance of adding a star to the team? That is completely insane to consider a possibility.

[DOT]

Semantics have it!

Firstly, a week difference is not "semantics"

Secondly, as Deeeez posted, there is a deadline before the season starts for when you can agree to a rookie scale extension, so we literally can't extend KP mid season

According to Article VII, Section 7(b)(1) of the CBA, an extension of a rookie scale contract can only happen from 12:01pm Eastern on the last day of the July Moratorium to 6 p.m. Eastern on the day before the first day of the regular season of the second option year (fourth and final season) of the player’s rookie scale contract.

Thought everyone knew that, which is why I’ve said numerous times that KP is coming back this year and there’s a deadline to offer a max. I would never bet that KP takes the courts this year wout a max by Oct.

lol, so now the argument is that KP won't play without signing a contract? Quit moving the goalposts. KP will play this year if he's healthy whether or not he gets extended in the next month

[2010]

I’m playing being an irrational fanatic who thinks that players take discounts to come to the Knicks, players who have “understandings” about a max deal for delaying it, and thinking THJ & Lee have + value in any trade.

Lets be real here. KP is going to get his money regardless. Every top lottery pick gets that extension. However, it's in his best interest to sign after the Knicks pair him with another established star. KP and Janis are very brand conscious. They know nothing matters unless he takes his game to the playoffs and wins there. Getting his money months earlier and it costing him the ability to get more big time talent on the team does him no favors. He is a student of the game. I don't think he wants to end up being the next Ewing or Melo by getting his money mere months early at the expense of a supporting cast.

So you’re saying KP doesn’t sign a max by Oct, plays this year or sits out all for the sake of chance of adding a star to the team? That is completely insane to consider a possibility.

That's exactly what I am saying.

[cuyankees]

Firstly, a week difference is not "semantics"

Secondly, as Deeeez posted, there is a deadline before the season starts for when you can agree to a rookie scale extension, so we literally can't extend KP mid season

Thought everyone knew that, which is why I’ve said numerous times that KP is coming back this year and there’s a deadline to offer a max. I would never bet that KP takes the courts this year wout a max by Oct.

lol, so now the argument is that KP won't play without signing a contract? Quit moving the goalposts. KP will play this year if he's healthy whether or not he gets extended in the next month

Huh? KP plays this year, he has a max; he doesn’t have a max, he doesn’t play. That’s been the debate the entire time, look @ your 1st post about this.

[cuyankees]

Lets be real here. KP is going to get his money regardless. Every top lottery pick gets that extension. However, it's in his best interest to sign after the Knicks pair him with another established star. KP and Janis are very brand conscious. They know nothing matters unless he takes his game to the playoffs and wins there. Getting his money months earlier and it costing him the ability to get more big time talent on the team does him no favors. He is a student of the game. I don't think he wants to end up being the next Ewing or Melo by getting his money mere months early at the expense of a supporting cast.

So you’re saying KP doesn’t sign a max by Oct, plays this year or sits out all for the sake of chance of adding a star to the team? That is completely insane to consider a possibility.

That's exactly what I am saying.

Gotta respect and appreciate that bc everyone posting in this debate won’t admit that hoping for that scenario. Kudos

[GONYK]

So you’re saying KP doesn’t sign a max by Oct, plays this year or sits out all for the sake of chance of adding a star to the team? That is completely insane to consider a possibility.

That's exactly what I am saying.

Gotta respect and appreciate that bc everyone posting in this debate won’t admit that hoping for that scenario. Kudos

That's literally what everyone is saying

[cuyankees]

That's exactly what I am saying.

Gotta respect and appreciate that bc everyone posting in this debate won’t admit that hoping for that scenario. Kudos

That's literally what everyone is saying

No, he’s the 1st to actually admit to that. I applaud it bc that’s true fandom and some would say completely illogical, hoping that a player will sacrifice/risk so much for the mere chance of signing a FA.

[BallSacBounce]

Um, if KP doesn't play at all why would a premium FA want to come here?
KP has to play at least some to show he's healthy and undiminished.

[Jeff Van Gully]

If that's what you got from my explanation then I gotta question your comprehension as well.

I was clear in saying my statement was not in regards to the opinion-based elements of the conversation. But directly tied to the FACTS of understanding why certain options do and don't make sense if Perry is looking to sign a max free agent in 2019. The stretch provision helps that cause. None of the alternatives do. Therefore if that is understood and people continue to present the alternatives as viable when the goal seems to be to open up cap space for the summer of 2018, then that just isn't smart. They don't have to agree with it. But that appears to be what the goal appears to be.

If that makes you feel a way, then it is what it is. If you wanna be Mr. Diplomatic, then by all means be that. But I don't have to be. And that isn't baiting. That's just calling it what it is. I didn't specifically attack anyone or call anyone a derogatory name. I just spoke the obvious.

Is questioning intelligence no longer allowed here? If so, I expect you to get on this statement asap as well:

1. "directly tied to the facts of understanding why opinions ..." smh. just because you put the word fact in there somewhere...

2. no matter how you try to present that sentence you're attacking people's opinions en masse and calling them crazy for being offended by it.

3. i lose no sleep over your assessment of my comprehension skills.

1. So CBA scenarios, factors, and my use of the word "options" are now relegated to "opinions"? Gotcha!
Hmmm, maybe you should look closer at my original enlarged red wording, then take a look at your # "1." then reevaluate or scrutinize your own comprehension

2. Again, I'm recognizing peoples inability to process and comprehend a perspective other than their own and understand what does and doesn't work under the premise

3. I lose no sleep over you being butthurt that I questioned others' intelligence.

So now, since you're the questioning of intelligence police. Go wave your finger at the dude who said whoever doesn't share his OPINION on which free agents are likeliest to sign here that he has a bridge to sell them. Essentially calling them dumb/gullible. Or are you choosey with who you choose to take this stance with?

Since this is your new initiative (if you gonna be consistent with it), it'll likely keep you very busy. You know, being how people question others' intelligence around here pretty much all the time. And less eloquently than how I chose to do it.

typo

still not conducive to good faith conversation to question people's intelligence over disagreements.

i'm a moderator. it's my responsibility to make sure conversations here are respectful and not bait-laden.

you out here doing a lot. don't act like this is new with you.

[GONYK]

Gotta respect and appreciate that bc everyone posting in this debate won’t admit that hoping for that scenario. Kudos

That's literally what everyone is saying

No, he’s the 1st to actually admit to that. I applaud it bc that’s true fandom and some would say completely illogical, hoping that a player will sacrifice/risk so much for the mere chance of signing a FA.

What is KP risking or sacrificing?

[cuyankees]

That's literally what everyone is saying

No, he’s the 1st to actually admit to that. I applaud it bc that’s true fandom and some would say completely illogical, hoping that a player will sacrifice/risk so much for the mere chance of signing a FA.

What is KP risking or sacrificing?

Securing a 500% a year raise, sitting out a season where there’s FAs that you’re sacrificing for the chance can’t see you play and see your health and increase the likelihood of signing.

[GONYK]

No, he’s the 1st to actually admit to that. I applaud it bc that’s true fandom and some would say completely illogical, hoping that a player will sacrifice/risk so much for the mere chance of signing a FA.

What is KP risking or sacrificing?

Securing a 500% a year raise

If he does not play, how does he risk that?

[DOT]

Thought everyone knew that, which is why I’ve said numerous times that KP is coming back this year and there’s a deadline to offer a max. I would never bet that KP takes the courts this year wout a max by Oct.

lol, so now the argument is that KP won't play without signing a contract? Quit moving the goalposts. KP will play this year if he's healthy whether or not he gets extended in the next month

Huh? KP plays this year, he has a max; he doesn’t have a max, he doesn’t play. That’s been the debate the entire time, look @ your 1st post about this.

I don't even know how to explain to you how wrong you are. You just got called out on your bullsh*t and can't own up to it

I said that we didn't need to extend KP if he plays this year, which is true. You're trying to say KP won't play if he doesn't get extended. Vastly different arguments

Also, you're also full of sh*t even on that argument. We have an example of it this past year. Zach LaVine tore his ACL in 2017, got traded, didn't sign an extension, then went out and played anyways this year

[cuyankees]

lol, so now the argument is that KP won't play without signing a contract? Quit moving the goalposts. KP will play this year if he's healthy whether or not he gets extended in the next month

Huh? KP plays this year, he has a max; he doesn’t have a max, he doesn’t play. That’s been the debate the entire time, look @ your 1st post about this.

I don't even know how to explain to you how wrong you are. You just got called out on your bullsh*t and can't own up to it

I said that we didn't need to extend KP if he plays this year, which is true. You're trying to say KP won't play if he doesn't get extended. Vastly different arguments

Also, you're also full of sh*t even on that argument. We have an example of it this past year. Zach LaVine tore his ACL in 2017, got traded, didn't sign an extension, then went out and played anyways this year

You said something different bc you didn’t know about the deadline, they’re the same debates.

Must feel nice to have that mod designation so people must watch boundaries against you, but you can spew obscenities against non mod posters. We went through this w your MEM trade nonsense and you stopped after realizing you got caught w 2 trades setting a precedence in draft value vs savings and debunking your idiotic MEM trade. Or maybe it was your pre mod days when you couldn’t do basic math that you must dump Lee & stretch Noah w a max ext for KP. Do I really have to school you again about how the following are the same?

KP plays this year, he has an extension.

KP doesn’t have an extension, he doesn’t play.

1 doesn’t happen wout the other.

[DOT]

Huh? KP plays this year, he has a max; he doesn’t have a max, he doesn’t play. That’s been the debate the entire time, look @ your 1st post about this.

I don't even know how to explain to you how wrong you are. You just got called out on your bullsh*t and can't own up to it

I said that we didn't need to extend KP if he plays this year, which is true. You're trying to say KP won't play if he doesn't get extended. Vastly different arguments

Also, you're also full of sh*t even on that argument. We have an example of it this past year. Zach LaVine tore his ACL in 2017, got traded, didn't sign an extension, then went out and played anyways this year

You said something different bc you didn’t know about the deadline, they’re the same debates.

Must feel nice to have that mod designation so people must watch boundaries against you, but you can spew obscenities against non mod posters. We went through this w your MEM trade nonsense and you stopped after realizing you got caught w 2 trades setting a precedence in draft value vs savings and debunking your idiotic MEM trade. Do I really have to school you again about how the following are the same?

KP plays this year, he has an extension.

KP doesn’t have an extension, he doesn’t play.

1 doesn’t happen wout the other.

You keep saying this with no basis

Just cause you keep saying it doesn't make it true. I gave you an example of a player with the exact same injury as KP not getting an extension in the offseason and playing anyway, but instead of addressing that, you chose to whine about me saying you're full of sh*t

[cuyankees]

I don't even know how to explain to you how wrong you are. You just got called out on your bullsh*t and can't own up to it

I said that we didn't need to extend KP if he plays this year, which is true. You're trying to say KP won't play if he doesn't get extended. Vastly different arguments

Also, you're also full of sh*t even on that argument. We have an example of it this past year. Zach LaVine tore his ACL in 2017, got traded, didn't sign an extension, then went out and played anyways this year

You said something different bc you didn’t know about the deadline, they’re the same debates.

Must feel nice to have that mod designation so people must watch boundaries against you, but you can spew obscenities against non mod posters. We went through this w your MEM trade nonsense and you stopped after realizing you got caught w 2 trades setting a precedence in draft value vs savings and debunking your idiotic MEM trade. Do I really have to school you again about how the following are the same?

KP plays this year, he has an extension.

KP doesn’t have an extension, he doesn’t play.

1 doesn’t happen wout the other.

You keep saying this with no basis

Just cause you keep saying it doesn't make it true. I gave you an example of a player with the exact same injury as KP not getting an extension in the offseason and playing anyway, but instead of addressing that, you chose to whine about me saying you're full of sh*t

Yeah sure, that’s a great example, Zach and KP. Yeah sure, they’re 2 peas in a pod. Cool story bro.

[2010]

1. "directly tied to the facts of understanding why opinions ..." smh. just because you put the word fact in there somewhere...

2. no matter how you try to present that sentence you're attacking people's opinions en masse and calling them crazy for being offended by it.

3. i lose no sleep over your assessment of my comprehension skills.

1. So CBA scenarios, factors, and my use of the word "options" are now relegated to "opinions"? Gotcha!
Hmmm, maybe you should look closer at my original enlarged red wording, then take a look at your # "1." then reevaluate or scrutinize your own comprehension

2. Again, I'm recognizing peoples inability to process and comprehend a perspective other than their own and understand what does and doesn't work under the premise

3. I lose no sleep over you being butthurt that I questioned others' intelligence.

So now, since you're the questioning of intelligence police. Go wave your finger at the dude who said whoever doesn't share his OPINION on which free agents are likeliest to sign here that he has a bridge to sell them. Essentially calling them dumb/gullible. Or are you choosey with who you choose to take this stance with?

Since this is your new initiative (if you gonna be consistent with it), it'll likely keep you very busy. You know, being how people question others' intelligence around here pretty much all the time. And less eloquently than how I chose to do it.

typo

still not conducive to good faith conversation to question people's intelligence over disagreements.

i'm a moderator. it's my responsibility to make sure conversations here are respectful and not bait-laden.

you out here doing a lot. don't act like this is new with you.

If that's your stance and you laying the law then don't be profiling with it. Be consistent with it all the way around. In this thread alone there have been others. Yet you choose to nitpick with me when I didn't even word my piece in an inflammatory fashion. I never called no names. I didn't even get no type of chippy with it. I actually extended you a compliment initially. You choose to turn that on it's head as a way to throw shade my way on some holier than thou mess.

Cool.

Yeah, you a mod...you the police now. Lets see what you do with it. Looks to me like you out here profiling and being picky with who you enforce things with. So when you in the social injustice threads I don't really wanna see you complaining when the law does that in real life. I highlighted a post doing exactly what you accused me of and SILENCE. Straight blind eye. And the funny thing is it was the same dude who was asking me to explain why I questioned his intelligence. And yet I explained myself eloquently with no disses or insults. And he was cool with that. Yet you wanted to label it bait and you still are. Instead of being a man and saying you read my intentions wrong and manning up about you messing up on your comprehension. That wasn't no typo. That was a gross oversight on your behalf that skewed what you THOUGHT you saw.

I'm out here doing a lot? Nah, I been having cool conversations about basketball. I haven't gotten into it with anyone today. Until you tried to say I was baiting someone. No one else has had a single issue with what I said and especially not after I explained myself. If anyone doing a lot it's you. You taking the blue too seriously. It was people on here cussin' eachother out earlier today. One mod I respect addressed it perfectly. Nothing from you. Yet you wanna nitpick stuff that didn't even need to be addressed from me. Now you tryna spin it on me like I'm some serial troller or baiter.

If you got an issue with me due to a past or preconceived notion, that's on you. But maybe it's just a case of you getting a new gun and being itchy to shoot.

Well I'ma tell you like this player. I will continue to question the intelligence of others if I deem it fit. As long as I do so respectfully and eloquently it shouldn't be no problem. And if you want to make it a problem when I do, then that's on you. But then I wanna see you also make it a problem when ANYONE around here questions another poster's intelligence. Especially when they do it a lot less politely than I did.