Giannis to Boston

[Resistance]

Kyrie + Hayward + Yabusele + SAC 2019 pick + MEM 2019 pick for Antetokounmpo + Bledsoe + Henson

Rosier
Brown
Tatum
Antetokounmpo
Horford

No way Bucks do this trade. Irving is flight risk as main piece of trade. MAYBE, and big maybe, if trade happens after Irving locks in, Sac pick is #2 overall and Memphis 1st is #9. And I think Middleton needs to lock in too. Only because for Bucks: Irving | Middleton | Hayward...is an awesome start to a well rounded team.

I obviously don't think an Antetokounmpo trade its realistic, but Irving (re-signed) + Hayward + a top 5 pick + a top 10 pick is pretty good haul. Kyrie probably would re-sign if it's a max deal. Lots of intriguing prospects in the top 10 next year too.

A sign and trade of Irving plus Milwaukee being able to decide on which players to take with the 2019 draft picks?

[skones]

No way Bucks do this trade. Irving is flight risk as main piece of trade. MAYBE, and big maybe, if trade happens after Irving locks in, Sac pick is #2 overall and Memphis 1st is #9. And I think Middleton needs to lock in too. Only because for Bucks: Irving | Middleton | Hayward...is an awesome start to a well rounded team.

I obviously don't think an Antetokounmpo trade its realistic, but Irving (re-signed) + Hayward + a top 5 pick + a top 10 pick is pretty good haul. Kyrie probably would re-sign if it's a max deal. Lots of intriguing prospects in the top 10 next year too.

A sign and trade of Irving plus Milwaukee being able to decide on which players to take with the 2019 draft picks?

Giannis, if he stays healthy is likely a perennial top 5 player in the league. Irving is not. You don't trade away your top 5 guy for a lottery ticket.

[Resistance]

I obviously don't think an Antetokounmpo trade its realistic, but Irving (re-signed) + Hayward + a top 5 pick + a top 10 pick is pretty good haul. Kyrie probably would re-sign if it's a max deal. Lots of intriguing prospects in the top 10 next year too.

A sign and trade of Irving plus Milwaukee being able to decide on which players to take with the 2019 draft picks?

Giannis, if he stays healthy is likely a perennial top 5 player in the league. Irving is not. You don't trade away your top 5 guy for a lottery ticket.

For now, I would like to see the details of the proposed trade.


Discussing the valuation part is something that I am not really interested in doing at the moment.

[skones]

A sign and trade of Irving plus Milwaukee being able to decide on which players to take with the 2019 draft picks?

Giannis, if he stays healthy is likely a perennial top 5 player in the league. Irving is not. You don't trade away your top 5 guy for a lottery ticket.

For now, I would like to see the details of the proposed trade.


Discussing the valuation part is something that I am not really interested in doing at the moment.

Given valuation is a pretty integral part of discussing potential trades, that seems a bit odd. It becomes even more odd when you were the one who threw out a loose proposal.

[Resistance]

Giannis, if he stays healthy is likely a perennial top 5 player in the league. Irving is not. You don't trade away your top 5 guy for a lottery ticket.

For now, I would like to see the details of the proposed trade.


Discussing the valuation part is something that I am not really interested in doing at the moment.

Given valuation is a pretty integral part of discussing potential trades, that seems a bit odd. It becomes even more odd when you were the one who threw out a loose proposal.

Notice what I quoted and that I ended with a ?.

This is what I am seeking clarification/details on:

I obviously don't think an Antetokounmpo trade its realistic, but Irving (re-signed) + Hayward + a top 5 pick + a top 10 pick is pretty good haul

I didn't include the Hayward part, but he has a multi year contract while Irving has a player option for next season.


If I was actually making a proposal or illustrating the proposal of another person, I would have used my standard format:

Milwaukee
In:
Out:

Boston
In:
Out:

[DanishLakerFan]

Boston has huge amounts of assets. What do they need to nab Giannis?

Sac 1st, Memphis 1st, Clippers 1st, Tatum, Smart
For
Giannis

obviously Tatum has many enamored of his potential. This move puts the Bucks on a rebuild with a lot of picks to build around Tatum/Middleton

This should push the Celtics into contention with the Warriors.
Irving vs Curry
Brown vs Klay
Hayward vs Draymond
Giannis vs KD
Horford vs Cousins
6th: Rozier vs Iggy

Giannis allows them to match up well. Draymond is a mismatch, but Warriors will struggle vs this lineup on the perimeter with Cousins at C.

This deal would probably be tempting for both teams. I think Bucks say no, but if Middleton were to leave in the summer - or even sign a lucrative deal - it could be tough to build a team around Giannis that can actually compete.

[old ball coach]

If it ever came to pass that freak was available AND it won’t But it would be the bucks who dictate who they want not Boston and Tatum brown and Memphis and Sacramento’s 1st would be in the pkg and Boston would jump on it Irving Hayward and freak would win the east hands down and have. Great shot at golden state.


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[CallMeKahn]

If the Bucks were to blow it up, that'd be a hell of a good package. But unless Giannis wanted out, then you don't trade him. Dude is a franchise player and those don't come along every day.

[CelticsLV]

If it ever came to pass that freak was available AND it won’t But it would be the bucks who dictate who they want not Boston and Tatum brown and Memphis and Sacramento’s 1st would be in the pkg and Boston would jump on it Irving Hayward and freak would win the east hands down and have. Great shot at golden state.


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That would be a lateral move at best. So no, Boston wouldn't jump all over such deal. Boston has a much better chance to win it all in the next 5+ years than Bucks will ever have. Who has a top 5 player again? Boston can live without such trade. In a hypothetical scenario where Giannis asks out Bucks wouldn't be able to ask for everything, at least not from Boston.

Can you tell me what exactly Giannis offers over Brown, Tatum combo? Brown and Tatum can shoot, defend multiple positions. Tatum has that 1st option talent. I think this whole "you can't win without top 5 player" is utter BS. Top 5 player should've swung that Celtics vs Bucks matchup in Bucks favor. It looked more like Middleton was the one who was keeping Bucks hopes alive.

[Prokorov]

If it ever came to pass that freak was available AND it won’t But it would be the bucks who dictate who they want not Boston and Tatum brown and Memphis and Sacramento’s 1st would be in the pkg and Boston would jump on it Irving Hayward and freak would win the east hands down and have. Great shot at golden state.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

That would be a lateral move at best. So no, Boston wouldn't jump all over such deal. Boston has a much better chance to win it all in the next 5+ years than Bucks will ever have. Who has a top 5 player again? Boston can live without such trade. In a hypothetical scenario where Giannis asks out Bucks wouldn't be able to ask for everything, at least not from Boston.

Can you tell me what exactly Giannis offers over Brown, Tatum combo? Brown and Tatum can shoot, defend multiple positions. Tatum has that 1st option talent. I think this whole "you can't win without top 5 player" is utter BS. Top 5 player should've swung that Celtics vs Bucks matchup in Bucks favor. It looked more like Middleton was the one who was keeping Bucks hopes alive.

what was the last team to win a title without a top 5 player? maybe dallas if you want to put dirk just outside the top 5 that year?

[RRyder823]

If it ever came to pass that freak was available AND it won’t But it would be the bucks who dictate who they want not Boston and Tatum brown and Memphis and Sacramento’s 1st would be in the pkg and Boston would jump on it Irving Hayward and freak would win the east hands down and have. Great shot at golden state.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

That would be a lateral move at best. So no, Boston wouldn't jump all over such deal. Boston has a much better chance to win it all in the next 5+ years than Bucks will ever have. Who has a top 5 player again? Boston can live without such trade. In a hypothetical scenario where Giannis asks out Bucks wouldn't be able to ask for everything, at least not from Boston.

Can you tell me what exactly Giannis offers over Brown, Tatum combo? Brown and Tatum can shoot, defend multiple positions. Tatum has that 1st option talent. I think this whole "you can't win without top 5 player" is utter BS. Top 5 player should've swung that Celtics vs Bucks matchup in Bucks favor. It looked more like Middleton was the one who was keeping Bucks hopes alive.

what was the last team to win a title without a top 5 player? maybe dallas if you want to put dirk just outside the top 5 that year?

Probably SA. Still though I'm not sure how replicable that is.

The cold hard truth is a foursome of Kyrie, Hayward, Brown and Giannis stands a very real chance of toppling GS THIS year with Steven's as a coach and is still very young.

Problem is Boston fans are almost locking in Tatum as a top 10-15 player. He has a LONG way to go for that and it's pretty far from a lock.

Truth is unless Boston is throwing in Ainge and/or Steven's the Bucks are better off rolling the dice and wishing upon a star that Giannis turns into a truly all time great that can will a team through the playoffs instead of wishing Tatum gets close to being as good as Giannis is right now and hoping those draft picks turn into something special.

Bottom line. The Bucks aren't trading Giannis

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[Texas Chuck]

If it ever came to pass that freak was available AND it won’t But it would be the bucks who dictate who they want not Boston and Tatum brown and Memphis and Sacramento’s 1st would be in the pkg and Boston would jump on it Irving Hayward and freak would win the east hands down and have. Great shot at golden state.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

That would be a lateral move at best. So no, Boston wouldn't jump all over such deal. Boston has a much better chance to win it all in the next 5+ years than Bucks will ever have. Who has a top 5 player again? Boston can live without such trade. In a hypothetical scenario where Giannis asks out Bucks wouldn't be able to ask for everything, at least not from Boston.

Can you tell me what exactly Giannis offers over Brown, Tatum combo? Brown and Tatum can shoot, defend multiple positions. Tatum has that 1st option talent. I think this whole "you can't win without top 5 player" is utter BS. Top 5 player should've swung that Celtics vs Bucks matchup in Bucks favor. It looked more like Middleton was the one who was keeping Bucks hopes alive.

what was the last team to win a title without a top 5 player? maybe dallas if you want to put dirk just outside the top 5 that year?

I mean ordinarily I would make the I might be a homer disclaimer, but there is no question Dirk was a top 5 player in 2011. I would Lebron as the best and then its Dirk and Howard right behind him. All three of those guys clearly better than the MVP Derrick Rose that year.

Dirk had a great RS and when he missed games Dallas fell completely apart offensively and went 2-7 without him and then lost the first two games when he rushed back too soon trying to stem the tide. And if you look at the offensive numbers in that stretch they are awful. Dallas was playing at well over a 60 win clip with Dirk.

And of course there is no question that Dirk was far and away the best player in the playoffs that year.


I think you could argue the Spurs in 2014 didn't have a top 5 player and then before that you are likely looking at the 04 Pistons and then before that the b2b Pistons champions immediately prior to the Bulls first threepeat. But Dallas definitely doesn't qualify.

[CelticsLV]

If it ever came to pass that freak was available AND it won’t But it would be the bucks who dictate who they want not Boston and Tatum brown and Memphis and Sacramento’s 1st would be in the pkg and Boston would jump on it Irving Hayward and freak would win the east hands down and have. Great shot at golden state.


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That would be a lateral move at best. So no, Boston wouldn't jump all over such deal. Boston has a much better chance to win it all in the next 5+ years than Bucks will ever have. Who has a top 5 player again? Boston can live without such trade. In a hypothetical scenario where Giannis asks out Bucks wouldn't be able to ask for everything, at least not from Boston.

Can you tell me what exactly Giannis offers over Brown, Tatum combo? Brown and Tatum can shoot, defend multiple positions. Tatum has that 1st option talent. I think this whole "you can't win without top 5 player" is utter BS. Top 5 player should've swung that Celtics vs Bucks matchup in Bucks favor. It looked more like Middleton was the one who was keeping Bucks hopes alive.

what was the last team to win a title without a top 5 player? maybe dallas if you want to put dirk just outside the top 5 that year?

Hello, 2014 Spurs!? And 2013 Spurs weren't far off to win it all too. Then there's Mavs and Pistons.

[Patsfan1081]

That would be a lateral move at best. So no, Boston wouldn't jump all over such deal. Boston has a much better chance to win it all in the next 5+ years than Bucks will ever have. Who has a top 5 player again? Boston can live without such trade. In a hypothetical scenario where Giannis asks out Bucks wouldn't be able to ask for everything, at least not from Boston.

Can you tell me what exactly Giannis offers over Brown, Tatum combo? Brown and Tatum can shoot, defend multiple positions. Tatum has that 1st option talent. I think this whole "you can't win without top 5 player" is utter BS. Top 5 player should've swung that Celtics vs Bucks matchup in Bucks favor. It looked more like Middleton was the one who was keeping Bucks hopes alive.

what was the last team to win a title without a top 5 player? maybe dallas if you want to put dirk just outside the top 5 that year?

Probably SA. Still though I'm not sure how replicable that is.

The cold hard truth is a foursome of Kyrie, Hayward, Brown and Giannis stands a very real chance of toppling GS THIS year with Steven's as a coach and is still very young.

Problem is Boston fans are almost locking in Tatum as a top 10-15 player. He has a LONG way to go for that and it's pretty far from a lock.

Truth is unless Boston is throwing in Ainge and/or Steven's the Bucks are better off rolling the dice and wishing upon a star that Giannis turns into a truly all time great that can will a team through the playoffs instead of wishing Tatum gets close to being as good as Giannis is right now and hoping those draft picks turn into something special.

Bottom line. The Bucks aren't trading Giannis

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This is what happens when somone wants to make a trade thread with an untoucheable player. Fans feel the need to respond with an equally out there comment with the like of "Boston would need to include their whole team, coach, etc..." Just as you know the Bucks aren't trading Giannis you should know that currently constructed Boston is much more likely to compete for a title now and five years down the road.

[Patsfan1081]

If it ever came to pass that freak was available AND it won’t But it would be the bucks who dictate who they want not Boston and Tatum brown and Memphis and Sacramento’s 1st would be in the pkg and Boston would jump on it Irving Hayward and freak would win the east hands down and have. Great shot at golden state.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

That would be a lateral move at best. So no, Boston wouldn't jump all over such deal. Boston has a much better chance to win it all in the next 5+ years than Bucks will ever have. Who has a top 5 player again? Boston can live without such trade. In a hypothetical scenario where Giannis asks out Bucks wouldn't be able to ask for everything, at least not from Boston.

Can you tell me what exactly Giannis offers over Brown, Tatum combo? Brown and Tatum can shoot, defend multiple positions. Tatum has that 1st option talent. I think this whole "you can't win without top 5 player" is utter BS. Top 5 player should've swung that Celtics vs Bucks matchup in Bucks favor. It looked more like Middleton was the one who was keeping Bucks hopes alive.

what was the last team to win a title without a top 5 player? maybe dallas if you want to put dirk just outside the top 5 that year?

Detroit, Dallas, Boston in 98.....I mean the league has really more so been dominated by Lebron since he's entered the league, same with the Jordan era. You don't just need another top five player to beat these guys, you need a team of all stars. Also having a top five player doesn't guarentee anything, OKC had two and couldn't win a title. That aside what's more likely, Boston adding another top 5/10 player with their assets or the Bucks adding another star/contending team around Giannis?

[Prokorov]

That would be a lateral move at best. So no, Boston wouldn't jump all over such deal. Boston has a much better chance to win it all in the next 5+ years than Bucks will ever have. Who has a top 5 player again? Boston can live without such trade. In a hypothetical scenario where Giannis asks out Bucks wouldn't be able to ask for everything, at least not from Boston.

Can you tell me what exactly Giannis offers over Brown, Tatum combo? Brown and Tatum can shoot, defend multiple positions. Tatum has that 1st option talent. I think this whole "you can't win without top 5 player" is utter BS. Top 5 player should've swung that Celtics vs Bucks matchup in Bucks favor. It looked more like Middleton was the one who was keeping Bucks hopes alive.

what was the last team to win a title without a top 5 player? maybe dallas if you want to put dirk just outside the top 5 that year?

Hello, 2014 Spurs!? And 2013 Spurs weren't far off to win it all too. Then there's Mavs and Pistons.

ok so in the last 30 years you have 3 championship teams who didnt have a top 5 player? and for the 2014 spurs you had a former top 5 guy in duncan and a soon to be top 5 guy in Kahwi.

If dirk wasnt top 5 he was 6th or 7th.

its really the ben wallace pistons as the only real clear cut case.

i dont view any of that as solid evidence you dont need a top 5 player to win a title... especially in the era of supeteams

[Prokorov]

That would be a lateral move at best. So no, Boston wouldn't jump all over such deal. Boston has a much better chance to win it all in the next 5+ years than Bucks will ever have. Who has a top 5 player again? Boston can live without such trade. In a hypothetical scenario where Giannis asks out Bucks wouldn't be able to ask for everything, at least not from Boston.

Can you tell me what exactly Giannis offers over Brown, Tatum combo? Brown and Tatum can shoot, defend multiple positions. Tatum has that 1st option talent. I think this whole "you can't win without top 5 player" is utter BS. Top 5 player should've swung that Celtics vs Bucks matchup in Bucks favor. It looked more like Middleton was the one who was keeping Bucks hopes alive.

what was the last team to win a title without a top 5 player? maybe dallas if you want to put dirk just outside the top 5 that year?

Detroit, Dallas, Boston in 98.....I mean the league has really more so been dominated by Lebron since he's entered the league, same with the Jordan era. You don't just need another top five player to beat these guys, you need a team of all stars. Also having a top five player doesn't guarentee anything, OKC had two and couldn't win a title. That aside what's more likely, Boston adding another top 5/10 player with their assets or the Bucks adding another star/contending team around Giannis?

i dont see how that is relevant. the bucks have a top 5(ish) player now. if they already are a longshot to add another star, why in the world would you trade the one you have now, who is 23 and under contract/control?

the bucks best chance to win is keeping giannis. trading for a picks package is almost sure to fail

[RRyder823]

what was the last team to win a title without a top 5 player? maybe dallas if you want to put dirk just outside the top 5 that year?

Probably SA. Still though I'm not sure how replicable that is.

The cold hard truth is a foursome of Kyrie, Hayward, Brown and Giannis stands a very real chance of toppling GS THIS year with Steven's as a coach and is still very young.

Problem is Boston fans are almost locking in Tatum as a top 10-15 player. He has a LONG way to go for that and it's pretty far from a lock.

Truth is unless Boston is throwing in Ainge and/or Steven's the Bucks are better off rolling the dice and wishing upon a star that Giannis turns into a truly all time great that can will a team through the playoffs instead of wishing Tatum gets close to being as good as Giannis is right now and hoping those draft picks turn into something special.

Bottom line. The Bucks aren't trading Giannis

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This is what happens when somone wants to make a trade thread with an untoucheable player. Fans feel the need to respond with an equally out there comment with the like of "Boston would need to include their whole team, coach, etc..." Just as you know the Bucks aren't trading Giannis you should know that currently constructed Boston is much more likely to compete for a title now and five years down the road.

I agree and my statement was meant to be out there in a effort to show how ridiculous the idea of a Giannis trade is

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[CelticsLV]

what was the last team to win a title without a top 5 player? maybe dallas if you want to put dirk just outside the top 5 that year?

Hello, 2014 Spurs!? And 2013 Spurs weren't far off to win it all too. Then there's Mavs and Pistons.

ok so in the last 30 years you have 3 championship teams who didnt have a top 5 player? and for the 2014 spurs you had a former top 5 guy in duncan and a soon to be top 5 guy in Kahwi.

If dirk wasnt top 5 he was 6th or 7th.

its really the ben wallace pistons as the only real clear cut case.

i dont view any of that as solid evidence you dont need a top 5 player to win a title... especially in the era of supeteams

I didn't even look before 2000. Former top 5, past his peak Duncan and soon to be top 5 Leonard isn't the same as being top 5. Leonard wasn't top 5 yet, even the following season. And even if you want to put Dirk near that top 5 range the overall talent of this current Celtics team is easily better than 2011 Mavs.

Comparing 2014 Spurs with current Celtics.

Irving vs Parker
Hayward vs Ginobili
Horford vs Duncan
Tatum vs Leonard
Brown vs Green
Rozier vs Mills
Smart vs Diaw
Baynes vs Splitter

Brad vs Pop

Seems very comparable. Spurs big 3 was still good but in their 30s and past their peak.

[Prokorov]

Hello, 2014 Spurs!? And 2013 Spurs weren't far off to win it all too. Then there's Mavs and Pistons.

ok so in the last 30 years you have 3 championship teams who didnt have a top 5 player? and for the 2014 spurs you had a former top 5 guy in duncan and a soon to be top 5 guy in Kahwi.

If dirk wasnt top 5 he was 6th or 7th.

its really the ben wallace pistons as the only real clear cut case.

i dont view any of that as solid evidence you dont need a top 5 player to win a title... especially in the era of supeteams

I didn't even look before 2000. Former top 5, past his peak Duncan and soon to be top 5 Leonard isn't the same as being top 5. Leonard wasn't top 5 yet, even the following season. And even if you want to put Dirk near that top 5 range the overall talent of this current Celtics team is easily better than 2011 Mavs.

Comparing 2014 Spurs with current Celtics.

Irving vs Parker
Hayward vs Ginobili
Horford vs Duncan
Tatum vs Leonard
Brown vs Green
Rozier vs Mills
Smart vs Diaw
Baynes vs Splitter

Brad vs Pop

Seems very comparable. Spurs big 3 was still good but in their 30s and past their peak.

Even if you want to throw out Dirk as a top 5 player (which is a tough sell) that still only makes 3 teams in 30 years that won without a top 5 player. again, thats not a great track record for winning without a top 5 player... which is made even worse in todays era of superteams.

I mean your 3 teams that won without a top 5 player are:

-a spurs team that won 5 titles with a guy who is a top 10 player all-time.
-arguably the best defensive team of all time wit arguably the best defensive player of all time
-a dallas team with a guy who you need to tie yourself into knots to try and prove wasnt top 5 in dirk