RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#15 2018-19

[rcc8884]

It has been 7 polls and I don't think Demar DeRozan has gotten one vote yet

[Luigi]

When? When I said "okay" I meant I could see how you would think they are better than or near Ingram and that they belong in the OP.

I wouldn't take any of the guys you just listed over Ingram for this next season.

Fair enough. I think you're looking too far ahead on Ingram. He has a lot of potential. I'd predict that next summer, he'll be right up there on the list. As of right now, he's the odd guy out in that nomination.

[iggymcfrack]

It has been 7 polls and I don't think Demar DeRozan has gotten one vote yet

I remember he got a couple votes at #8. I’ll be super proud of this forum if we get through the Top 30 without voting him in. I have a feeling he could be the same controversial figure in the 26-30 votes that Kyrie is from 11-15. “But a bunch of us almost voted him in a while ago! Why don’t any of the newly free voters want to choose him? Don’t any of you want to vote him in yet? Must be Spurs haters.”

[mdonnelly1989]

Can someone please remind me what Damien Lillard did against Jrue Holiday in the playoffs this year? As good as he is on Defense, I don't see that happening to Kyrie Irving.

[VanWest82]

It has been 7 polls and I don't think Demar DeRozan has gotten one vote yet

As with most things on this board, this poll and resulting discussion is missing all context. What does top 25 player even mean? Is it the guy you'd most want on your team in the Finals? Is it a player you're using to start a team from scratch?

I'd rather have Kyrie Irving than Derozan to help me win a playoff series, but if the goal is drag a subpar team to the playoffs DD probably helps you win more games.

Demar is a wonderfully flawed player who will probably be better next year than he his today, and then again the year after. He's become massively underrated...except when he's playing Lebron.

[iggymcfrack]

Can someone please remind me what Damien Lillard did against Jrue Holiday in the playoffs this year? As good as he is on Defense, I don't see that happening to Kyrie Irving.

Good point. Don’t have to worry about getting embarrassed in the playoffs if you never actually step on the floor. Advantage Kyrie!

No seriously though, you’re right. Lillard over Dray is absurd. Ask all 30 GMs if they’d rather have Damian Lillard or Draymond Green in a playoff series and if one of them says Lillard, fire his ass immediately.

[VanWest82]

Can someone please remind me what Damien Lillard did against Jrue Holiday in the playoffs this year? As good as he is on Defense, I don't see that happening to Kyrie Irving.

Good point. Don’t have to worry about getting embarrassed in the playoffs if you never actually step on the floor. Advantage Kyrie!

No seriously though, you’re right. Lillard over Dray is absurd. Ask all 30 GMs if they’d rather have Damian Lillard or Draymond Green in a playoff series and if one of them says Lillard, fire his ass immediately.

This post perfectly exemplifies my point. You'd probably rather have Draymond than Dame in a playoff series, but if it's a pick to start a new team and you don't otherwise wind up with a good number one option (which is really hard to get), having Draymond won't matter as much because you probably won't be making the playoffs in the first place. Lillard on the other hand gives you a much better chance at getting there every year. We need some context to this debate.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

I know I am in the minority, but I really don't care how good a player is on offense if he is atrocious on defense.

I'd rather have the player that is willing to play on both sides of the floor.

[VanWest82]

I know I am in the minority, but I really don't care how good a player is on offense if he is atrocious on defense.

I'd rather have the player that is willing to play on both sides of the floor.

Steve Nash was the best player on three WCF teams and the second best player on a fourth WCF team and he only was ever effective on one side of the floor.

Edit: I'd also point out that Lebron only played one side of the floor the entire year including playoffs last year.

[iggymcfrack]

Can someone please remind me what Damien Lillard did against Jrue Holiday in the playoffs this year? As good as he is on Defense, I don't see that happening to Kyrie Irving.

Good point. Don’t have to worry about getting embarrassed in the playoffs if you never actually step on the floor. Advantage Kyrie!

No seriously though, you’re right. Lillard over Dray is absurd. Ask all 30 GMs if they’d rather have Damian Lillard or Draymond Green in a playoff series and if one of them says Lillard, fire his ass immediately.

This post perfectly exemplifies my point. You'd probably rather have Draymond than Dame in a playoff series, but if it's a pick to start a new team and you don't otherwise wind up with a good number one option (which is really hard to get), having Draymond won't matter as much because you probably won't be making the playoffs in the first place. Lillard on the other hand gives you a much better chance at getting there every year. We need some context to this debate.

I hate this argument so much. It’s like “OK, so that player would be help you way more for winning championships, sure, but let’s talk about what matters. Who’s better at getting a bad team the 8 seed?” Why is that the criteria? Why is it better to be the 15th best lead scorer than the best guy in 50 years at contributing with low usage?

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

I know I am in the minority, but I really don't care how good a player is on offense if he is atrocious on defense.

I'd rather have the player that is willing to play on both sides of the floor.

Steve Nash was the best player on three WCF teams and the second best player on a fourth WCF team and he only was ever effective on one side of the floor.

No where did I said all players who only play offense suck. They don't. I just value other things more.

Passing is one of those things. Which Steve Nash is world class in. Are Kyrie Irving or Damian Lillard some of the best passers this game has ever seen?

I mean, just trying to name one random player as proof that defense doesn't matter at all is ridiculous.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

I know I am in the minority, but I really don't care how good a player is on offense if he is atrocious on defense.

I'd rather have the player that is willing to play on both sides of the floor.

Steve Nash was the best player on three WCF teams and the second best player on a fourth WCF team and he only was ever effective on one side of the floor.

Edit: I'd also point out that Lebron only played one side of the floor the entire year including playoffs last year.

You know, just for **** and giggles I'm going to give you a counter to this argument.

Steve Nash was a great player who played only offense. You can have him.

I'll take Michael Jordan who played offense and defense.

[iggymcfrack]

I know I am in the minority, but I really don't care how good a player is on offense if he is atrocious on defense.

I'd rather have the player that is willing to play on both sides of the floor.

Steve Nash was the best player on three WCF teams and the second best player on a fourth WCF team and he only was ever effective on one side of the floor.

Edit: I'd also point out that Lebron only played one side of the floor the entire year including playoffs last year.

Nash never averaged 20 points a game once in his career. He made his impact playmaking. Kyrie and Lillard aren’t even particularly good at that. Certainly nowhere near as good as Draymond Green. And LeBron took off defense in the regular season, but he absolutely didn’t in the playoffs. He didn’t start on a lead scorer or anything, but he defended his matchup well, offered good help, gave a few chase-downs, and then when it was one possession left and the game was in the balance, he made the big play, getting on Dipo and letting him go by for an “easy” layup so he could swat it away.

[VanWest82]

Good point. Don’t have to worry about getting embarrassed in the playoffs if you never actually step on the floor. Advantage Kyrie!

No seriously though, you’re right. Lillard over Dray is absurd. Ask all 30 GMs if they’d rather have Damian Lillard or Draymond Green in a playoff series and if one of them says Lillard, fire his ass immediately.

This post perfectly exemplifies my point. You'd probably rather have Draymond than Dame in a playoff series, but if it's a pick to start a new team and you don't otherwise wind up with a good number one option (which is really hard to get), having Draymond won't matter as much because you probably won't be making the playoffs in the first place. Lillard on the other hand gives you a much better chance at getting there every year. We need some context to this debate.

I hate this argument so much. It’s like “OK, so that player would be help you way more for winning championships, sure, but let’s talk about what matters. Who’s better at getting a bad team the 8 seed?” Why is that the criteria? Why is it better to be the 15th best lead scorer than the best guy in 50 years at contributing with low usage?

But does he help you win championships if he can't get you to the playoffs? Imagine Draymond is in the 2019 draft and Sacramento is picking between him and Lillard or Irving. Who's going to help them win more games and build a foundation for the future? That's why it matters.

You can't only consider someone in context of how things will play out in their current situation. There has to be some element of "if we put this player on the worst team in the league, how would he improve their chances of winning games?"

[lebron stopper]

It has been 7 polls and I don't think Demar DeRozan has gotten one vote yet

Because DeMar DeRozan isn't a top 20 player. Arguably not even top 25.

[Asif16]

What else is Kyrie better at than Kyle Lowry, other than ball-handling?

He hit a shot over Curry in the finals? Put lowry besides Lebron and see what he would do too

Dont ever put Kyle lowry and Kyrie in the same sentence ever again. EVER.

Lol give me a break. The difference between Lowry and Irving isnt much. Lowry is better than Iriving in many aspects of basketball. And If you disagree, feel free to prove it.

And dont bring "age" into it. If I had to start a franchise right now, I would choose Irving 10/10 just because he's younger...but this thread isnt about that. Its about the talent level right now.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Unpopular opinion: The biggest difference between Kemba Walker and Kyrie Irving is the teammates they have had.

[lebron stopper]

I know I am in the minority, but I really don't care how good a player is on offense if he is atrocious on defense.

I'd rather have the player that is willing to play on both sides of the floor.

I hear you. Plus, this NBA is punishing defensive liabilities more and more now.

[VanWest82]

I know I am in the minority, but I really don't care how good a player is on offense if he is atrocious on defense.

I'd rather have the player that is willing to play on both sides of the floor.

Steve Nash was the best player on three WCF teams and the second best player on a fourth WCF team and he only was ever effective on one side of the floor.

No where did I said all players who only play offense suck. They don't. I just value other things more.

Passing is one of those things. Which Steve Nash is world class in. Are Kyrie Irving or Damian Lillard some of the best passers this game has ever seen?

I mean, just trying to name one random player as proof that defense doesn't matter at all is ridiculous.

Hey man, no offense. I'm just playing devil's advocate. You said it doesn't matter how good they are on offense, you'd rather have the two way player. So in effect you're saying you'd rather have Kyle Lowry, for example, than Steve Nash. I think that's a flawed way of looking at it. It has to be about the overall impact.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

So in effect you're saying you'd rather have Kyle Lowry, for example, than Steve Nash. I think that's a flawed way of looking at it. It has to be about the overall impact.

No, you did that by taking the extreme side of the argument. Which I get, because I did it too with the Michael Jordan/Steve Nash thing.

It doesn't work like that. You can't just pick two random people and say "This argument doesn't work because it means you'd take Jarrett Jack over Kyrie Irving because Jack plays defense."

It is all relative to the players. Paul George or Kyrie Irving? Give me Paul George all day. Kyrie is better offensively, but George isn't that far behind him while being MUCH MUCH MUCH better defensively.