Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas)

[esqtvd]

Tobias could be unmovable at the wrong number.

Keep in mind the rumors supported the idea that the Clippers were shopping Griffin (to the Wolves and Thunder) and could not find a suitor until Stan Van Gundy came through with that lottery pick. It's reasonable to think that if SVG didn't come through with that offer, that we would still have Griffin on our roster....maybe even a disgruntled Griffin.
____________________
I think it is realistic to expect Shai to play but not Jerome.
However annoying that is, that's the [stupid] path this organization has decided to go down.

for Tobias being unmovable at certain numbers, absolutely.

and disgruntled Griffin would also be probably investing more into his show biz career than working to regain his bounce while continuing to expand his game. I don't see him being the dedicated type like CP3, MJ, Larry, Magic, or Kobe who drive his teammates crazy when perceiving them as not putting in the same effort as he. to have the best player of your team, the franchise guy with the most $$ and most accolades and TV commercials, to not be the unquestioned leader of your team in the locker room, then he ain't worth the max, and Blake was never going to be that guy. unlike Mack trade for the Raiders, this one, was a good deal.

your last point about Jerome not being ready, I agree. I don't even see Doc truly giving enough minutes to Shai to begin with. if everybody is healthy, Pat, Avery, Milos and Lou are going to play every game. that top 4 are heavy enough that without an injury or two, I don't even see enough PT to develop Shai to his max this season. I am not even sure at this point that Jerome will be on our roster by the end of this season. I get his odd feeling lately that we didn't draft 4 guards in the last 2 drafts to have them compliment each other, but rather to compete and see who comes out on top and who develops into a trade asset. Shai seems to fit the mold of the first type, and Jerome the latter type.

Shai could very well see minutes if Pat Bev can't handle the point.

Jerome should play some G-League and work on becoming a scorer--and especially a shooter--without a conscience. Although he only played with the big club, Donovan Mitchell started slow [9 ppg on 33% FG and tons of TOs] but was en fuego by December.

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3908809/donovan-mitchell

[Neddy]

Tobias could be unmovable at the wrong number.

Keep in mind the rumors supported the idea that the Clippers were shopping Griffin (to the Wolves and Thunder) and could not find a suitor until Stan Van Gundy came through with that lottery pick. It's reasonable to think that if SVG didn't come through with that offer, that we would still have Griffin on our roster....maybe even a disgruntled Griffin.
____________________
I think it is realistic to expect Shai to play but not Jerome.
However annoying that is, that's the [stupid] path this organization has decided to go down.

for Tobias being unmovable at certain numbers, absolutely.

and disgruntled Griffin would also be probably investing more into his show biz career than working to regain his bounce while continuing to expand his game. I don't see him being the dedicated type like CP3, MJ, Larry, Magic, or Kobe who drive his teammates crazy when perceiving them as not putting in the same effort as he. to have the best player of your team, the franchise guy with the most $$ and most accolades and TV commercials, to not be the unquestioned leader of your team in the locker room, then he ain't worth the max, and Blake was never going to be that guy. unlike Mack trade for the Raiders, this one, was a good deal.

your last point about Jerome not being ready, I agree. I don't even see Doc truly giving enough minutes to Shai to begin with. if everybody is healthy, Pat, Avery, Milos and Lou are going to play every game. that top 4 are heavy enough that without an injury or two, I don't even see enough PT to develop Shai to his max this season. I am not even sure at this point that Jerome will be on our roster by the end of this season. I get his odd feeling lately that we didn't draft 4 guards in the last 2 drafts to have them compliment each other, but rather to compete and see who comes out on top and who develops into a trade asset. Shai seems to fit the mold of the first type, and Jerome the latter type.

Shai could very well see minutes if Pat Bev can't handle the point.

Jerome should play some G-League and work on becoming a scorer--and especially a shooter--without a conscience. Although he only played with the big club, Donovan Mitchell started slow [9 ppg on 33% FG and tons of TOs] but was en fuego by December.

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3908809/donovan-mitchell

funny, I just left a similar post elsewhere.

[TrueLAfan]

I don’t have a crystal ball or anything, but I really, really don’t think any deal that Tobias signs would be considered in the same way as Blake’s contract was/is. Blake’s contract is more like Gallo’s in the critical part of the equation for teams. How much do you pay a player whose ability to stay on the court is questionable?

But it’s less of a problem for us and Gallo. When Gallo plays (at least before last year), he’s great. His play on court hasn’t been his problem. His durability has. The only reason Gallo becomes more movable as the season progresses and ends is that next year is his final contract year. If he plays well for 35 of 45 games before the break, a team may be willing to pick him up. It’s a much lower risk proposition than trading for Blake. If Gallo plays well, he’s worth his salary. If he doesn’t or (more likely) gets hurt, he’s an expiring contract.

Blake, in terms of durability is like Gallo. (Even after last year, Blake only averages about 5-6 more games a season than Gallo.) And, when we unloaded Blake and unlike an effort to trade Gallo during or after this season, Blake had just signed a new deal. In terms of trade, he was/is a far, far bigger risk than Gallo. If Gallo gets traded, his contract is nearly up. Blake is on the books until 2022; he had four and a half years on his deal when we traded him.

And durability is a much smaller concern for us and Tobias. Tobias is closer in talent/impact level to Gallo—but is like neither Gallo or Blake in terms of ability to stay on the court. In the last four years, since he became a starter, Tobias has played more every year. He’s missed a total of 22 games in that period. (Blake has averaged missing 27 games a year in that four year span.) If we’re talking about possibly trading a player down the line, as Simon notes, that’s critical. Offering Tobias a 5 year/$115 million deal would start him at $20 million and bump him $1.5 million a year for 5 years. It’s a considerable step up from the 4 year/$80 million extension he politely turned out this offseason. It is, IMO, more or less what he’s worth (somewhere in the $110 to $130 million range). If we had to move him later, based on his ability to stay on the court and his consistent improvement across a variety of teams/coaches, I don’t think it would be that hard to do.

[simon24]

Tobias could be unmovable at the wrong number.

Keep in mind the rumors supported the idea that the Clippers were shopping Griffin (to the Wolves and Thunder) and could not find a suitor until Stan Van Gundy came through with that lottery pick. It's reasonable to think that if SVG didn't come through with that offer, that we would still have Griffin on our roster....maybe even a disgruntled Griffin.
____________________
I think it is realistic to expect Shai to play but not Jerome.
However annoying that is, that's the [stupid] path this organization has decided to go down.

for Tobias being unmovable at certain numbers, absolutely.

and disgruntled Griffin would also be probably investing more into his show biz career than working to regain his bounce while continuing to expand his game. I don't see him being the dedicated type like CP3, MJ, Larry, Magic, or Kobe who drive his teammates crazy when perceiving them as not putting in the same effort as he. to have the best player of your team, the franchise guy with the most $$ and most accolades and TV commercials, to not be the unquestioned leader of your team in the locker room, then he ain't worth the max, and Blake was never going to be that guy. unlike Mack trade for the Raiders, this one, was a good deal.

your last point about Jerome not being ready, I agree. I don't even see Doc truly giving enough minutes to Shai to begin with. if everybody is healthy, Pat, Avery, Milos and Lou are going to play every game. that top 4 are heavy enough that without an injury or two, I don't even see enough PT to develop Shai to his max this season. I am not even sure at this point that Jerome will be on our roster by the end of this season. I get his odd feeling lately that we didn't draft 4 guards in the last 2 drafts to have them compliment each other, but rather to compete and see who comes out on top and who develops into a trade asset. Shai seems to fit the mold of the first type, and Jerome the latter type.

Yeah, LAC dodged a bullet by trading Blake.

That would be messed if Jerome isn't the SG of the future. Jerry supposedly like him. I would think if Ballmer had his way MPJ would be a Clipper. JR got to be special to be picked over Lonnie Walker and MPJ.

[Ranma]

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[TrueLAfan]

With Butler, I start with the basics. We'd have to resign him and he wants the max. He doesn’t deserve the max. When he’s on the court, he’s probably a borderline max player. But he’s averaged missing over 15 games a year for the last four years and he'll be 30 when his next contract starts. He’s played over 67 games as a starter once in his career. Is Butler better when he’s on the court than, say DeMar DeRozan? Maybe. Probably. Does it hurt his value that he misses a lot more games. Oh, hell yeah.

I’m okay with a player who has an anomaly injured year. But I’m leery of guys who always seem to miss 15 to 20 games—and when that can extend into the playoffs.

[Ranma]

With Butler, I start with the basics. We'd have to resign him and he wants the max. He doesn’t deserve the max. When he’s on the court, he’s probably a borderline max player. But he’s averaged missing over 15 games a year for the last four years and he'll be 30 when his next contract starts. He’s played over 67 games as a starter once in his career. Is Butler better when he’s on the court than, say DeMar DeRozan? Maybe. Probably. Does it hurt his value that he misses a lot more games. Oh, hell yeah.

I’m okay with a player who has an anomaly injured year. But I’m leery of guys who always seem to miss 15 to 20 games—and when that can extend into the playoffs.

Agreed. This is why I said I wasn't necessarily arguing in favor of pursuing Butler in the Around the NBA thread given the current speculation to his possible availability this off-season.

If we could deal Gallo for him straight up, it may be worth it just to get out of the commitment to pay Gallinari for future years. Butler is not a max player as I mentioned previously that I only consider the following players to currently be worth pursuing for a full max commitment:

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Anthony Davis
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo
5. Kawhi Leonard

Kawhi is borderline due to question marks about his health and mental state, but given the scarcity of such players and the Clippers' unwillingness to go full rebuild in terms of "tanking", he'd be a worthy pursuit given our more limited options.

With talk of the Lakers' possibly preferring to pursue Klay Thompson over Leonard, it may provide us with an opportunity to pair Leonard with another star player in Butler to contend or even possibly convince another star player like Durant to jump onto our bandwagon.

I still don't think Butler is worthy of a maximum commitment but as a short-term acquisition, he may be worth pursuing in trade depending on the price.

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[Ranma]

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Haley O'Shaughnessy, TheRinger.com (9/17/18)

Who might be in the market for a 29-year-old, oft-injured, very good two-way player who is not always the easiest dude to play with?

Five teams come to mind: the Clippers, Blazers, Heat, Sixers, and Lakers. Both Miami and the Clips desperately need star power and have the tradable assets to get a deal done. Butler fits the win-now mold that Portland’s roster is built for. As far as Philadelphia and the Lakers go, adding Butler would be a step toward building a superteam. With winning it all being Butler’s top priority, the Sixers or Lakers would have the best chances of keeping him past this year. Funny, because if Minnesota’s plan for Wiggins to step up, Towns to sign an extension, and Butler to stay materialized, it might have been able to claim superteam status a couple seasons from now.

Decoding Jimmy Butler’s Frosty Relationship With the Timberwolves

[Ranma]

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[QRich3]

So, apparently the Suns are still interested in trading for Beverly:

In desperate need of a point guard, Phoenix reportedly also expressed interest in Patrick Beverly of the Los Angeles Clippers, Cory Joseph of the Indiana Pacers and Spencer Dinwiddie of the Brooklyn Nets.

The problem is that the Suns were only shopping second-round picks for the point guards.

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/tj-mcconnell-trade-sixers-suns-offer-point-guard-rumors-nba-20181016.html

I get why they'd only offer 2nds, but maybe if they still have this need come January, we could package him with Bradley and get that Bucks future pick and a couple expirings? (that'd be Chandler and Daniels btw). It makes a lot of sense doesn't it?

[Clemenza]

We should trade either Pat Bev or Avery to the Suns for a wing. Both guys are basically the same player. No need for both to be on the same team. And Luc at the three position is a disaster

[Ranma]

If he's open to going back to the G-League, I'd prefer to sign Xavier Silas over Jamel Artis.

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[babyjax13]

Don't think we can realistically make a deal that brings back expiring contracts for a package of Lou and Gallo, not at the moment anyway. Don't think planning anything around Klay Thompson leaving the Dubs is realistic either. Not overly excited about either Butler or Irving, who knows about Kawhi, I guess it'll depend on his attitude and how healthy he looks this season. But I'm not all that excited about paying Tobi what he'll be asking for either.

On the other hand, I'm very excited about Shai and Jerome, and about who can we bring in upcoming drafts, or which young players can we trade all these veterans for.

I'm all for adding top free agents if you can do it like Boston did, keeping your young core intact. If you have to start spending assets into trading for capspace, or taking playtime out of the young guys development, eff free agency. Free agency is always very expensive and one out of 30 teams only strikes gold once every few seasons. The vast majority of the time it's a disappointment.

Maybe not Lou and Gallo, but I could see Utah being interested in trading expirings + maybe this year's first for Tobias and Gallo. Not sure how appealing that is.

[QRich3]

Don't think we can realistically make a deal that brings back expiring contracts for a package of Lou and Gallo, not at the moment anyway. Don't think planning anything around Klay Thompson leaving the Dubs is realistic either. Not overly excited about either Butler or Irving, who knows about Kawhi, I guess it'll depend on his attitude and how healthy he looks this season. But I'm not all that excited about paying Tobi what he'll be asking for either.

On the other hand, I'm very excited about Shai and Jerome, and about who can we bring in upcoming drafts, or which young players can we trade all these veterans for.

I'm all for adding top free agents if you can do it like Boston did, keeping your young core intact. If you have to start spending assets into trading for capspace, or taking playtime out of the young guys development, eff free agency. Free agency is always very expensive and one out of 30 teams only strikes gold once every few seasons. The vast majority of the time it's a disappointment.

Maybe not Lou and Gallo, but I could see Utah being interested in trading expirings + maybe this year's first for Tobias and Gallo. Not sure how appealing that is.

I wrote that two months before the season started, the way things are shaking up so far, there's gonna be zero interest from the Clippers. With 10% of the season gone, those two guys are the core of the team, they're both scoring 20 a game on 60+ TS% and even playing pretty good defense for what we're used to. Trading them for thin air would be stupid. I'd trade Gallo for expirings of course, but not at the expense of Tobi, who should fetch a pretty decent package, even being an expiring himself. And I think the front office's stance would be even more negative than mine. Edit- I missed the first rounder, makes more sense that way, but I probably wouldn't do it still. And I'm pretty sure the FO is gonna ask for the moon in exchange for Tobias.

[esqtvd]

Don't think we can realistically make a deal that brings back expiring contracts for a package of Lou and Gallo, not at the moment anyway. Don't think planning anything around Klay Thompson leaving the Dubs is realistic either. Not overly excited about either Butler or Irving, who knows about Kawhi, I guess it'll depend on his attitude and how healthy he looks this season. But I'm not all that excited about paying Tobi what he'll be asking for either.

On the other hand, I'm very excited about Shai and Jerome, and about who can we bring in upcoming drafts, or which young players can we trade all these veterans for.

I'm all for adding top free agents if you can do it like Boston did, keeping your young core intact. If you have to start spending assets into trading for capspace, or taking playtime out of the young guys development, eff free agency. Free agency is always very expensive and one out of 30 teams only strikes gold once every few seasons. The vast majority of the time it's a disappointment.

Maybe not Lou and Gallo, but I could see Utah being interested in trading expirings + maybe this year's first for Tobias and Gallo. Not sure how appealing that is.

I wrote that two months before the season started, the way things are shaking up so far, there's gonna be zero interest from the Clippers. With 10% of the season gone, those two guys are the core of the team, they're both scoring 20 a game on 60+ TS% and even playing pretty good defense for what we're used to. Trading them for thin air would be stupid. I'd trade Gallo for expirings of course, but not at the expense of Tobi, who should fetch a pretty decent package, even being an expiring himself. And I think the front office's stance would be even more negative than mine. Edit- I missed the first rounder, makes more sense that way, but I probably wouldn't do it still. And I'm pretty sure the FO is gonna ask for the moon in exchange for Tobias.

Tobias, we just traded you to the Rockets for 4 1st-round picks. [OK, three.] Come back this summer and let's talk.

With Harden and CP on the books for a combined $88 million in 2021, NBA genius Daryl Morey is playing a busted flush.

[babyjax13]

Don't think we can realistically make a deal that brings back expiring contracts for a package of Lou and Gallo, not at the moment anyway. Don't think planning anything around Klay Thompson leaving the Dubs is realistic either. Not overly excited about either Butler or Irving, who knows about Kawhi, I guess it'll depend on his attitude and how healthy he looks this season. But I'm not all that excited about paying Tobi what he'll be asking for either.

On the other hand, I'm very excited about Shai and Jerome, and about who can we bring in upcoming drafts, or which young players can we trade all these veterans for.

I'm all for adding top free agents if you can do it like Boston did, keeping your young core intact. If you have to start spending assets into trading for capspace, or taking playtime out of the young guys development, eff free agency. Free agency is always very expensive and one out of 30 teams only strikes gold once every few seasons. The vast majority of the time it's a disappointment.

Maybe not Lou and Gallo, but I could see Utah being interested in trading expirings + maybe this year's first for Tobias and Gallo. Not sure how appealing that is.

I wrote that two months before the season started, the way things are shaking up so far, there's gonna be zero interest from the Clippers. With 10% of the season gone, those two guys are the core of the team, they're both scoring 20 a game on 60+ TS% and even playing pretty good defense for what we're used to. Trading them for thin air would be stupid. I'd trade Gallo for expirings of course, but not at the expense of Tobi, who should fetch a pretty decent package, even being an expiring himself. And I think the front office's stance would be even more negative than mine. Edit- I missed the first rounder, makes more sense that way, but I probably wouldn't do it still. And I'm pretty sure the FO is gonna ask for the moon in exchange for Tobias.

Tobi is really good, I wouldn't want to trade him either. If LAC has grand plans about signing a bunch of max free agents maybe it makes some sense to use him to dump Gallo, but I generally agree with you. Fair warning on Gallo, though, he usually looks like a star to start the season and then gets banged up. Hopefully not this year, I'd like to see this iteration of the Clippers make the playoffs.

[Galloisdaman]

Maybe not Lou and Gallo, but I could see Utah being interested in trading expirings + maybe this year's first for Tobias and Gallo. Not sure how appealing that is.

I wrote that two months before the season started, the way things are shaking up so far, there's gonna be zero interest from the Clippers. With 10% of the season gone, those two guys are the core of the team, they're both scoring 20 a game on 60+ TS% and even playing pretty good defense for what we're used to. Trading them for thin air would be stupid. I'd trade Gallo for expirings of course, but not at the expense of Tobi, who should fetch a pretty decent package, even being an expiring himself. And I think the front office's stance would be even more negative than mine. Edit- I missed the first rounder, makes more sense that way, but I probably wouldn't do it still. And I'm pretty sure the FO is gonna ask for the moon in exchange for Tobias.

Tobi is really good, I wouldn't want to trade him either. If LAC has grand plans about signing a bunch of max free agents maybe it makes some sense to use him to dump Gallo, but I generally agree with you. Fair warning on Gallo, though, he usually looks like a star to start the season and then gets banged up. Hopefully not this year, I'd like to see this iteration of the Clippers make the playoffs.

That is not totally accurate in my opinion. Gallo usually starts slower then finds his groove in Dec/Jan/Feb

[GeetIt]

Would like to see Clippers trade for Dedmon. Since Gortat is unplayable at this point.

[janmagn]

Would like to see Clippers trade for Dedmon. Since Gortat is unplayable at this point.

Montrezl and Boban are just fine for now

Lähetetty minun LG-M250 laitteesta Tapatalkilla

[Ranma]

I'd love to deal Gortat to the Grizzlies for a draft pick and expiring contracts, but alas, I don't see a fit with them tradewise unless a 3rd team is involved. If someone else figures something out, by all means, please share.

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