Trade Thread 2: Make your offers here

[sco]

I would not trade Portis. Too young. Too much potential. The only trades I'd like to see made are RoLo and perhaps Holiday for draft choices. Even 2nd rounders. That would free up more playing time for Portis and Valentine. I want to see what both of these young guys can do over a full season, with consistent meaningful minutes, in games we are not trying to lose.

amen.

I'm baffled why people would want to trade him like for a mid first for example, what would the hope be? Maybe the mid first in a couple of years could be nearly as good as he is now? No thanks, keep him, pay him, try to win (vs lose) and re-evaluate in the offseason. Rolo and Holiday sure, or more likely situation is to just let them expire if they don't fit in the long term plans.

If portis is traded it must be for equal talent that is a better fit, not for future cap space, i'm tired of that.

If BP continues his developmental trajectory, he will command upwards of $12mm as an RFA. Consider the Bulls' strengths, weaknesses, and gluts right now. We have our long term starting bigs already more or less determined to be Lauri and Wendell. Should we really be paying this much money on a bench big?

I argue we shouldn't. That money should be used to address an area of weakness. I'd rather spend that money on a PG/wing 6th man type of player. There will be other vet bigs on the market or available in the draft who can fill out our bench for much cheaper and be effective. Robert Williams just went in the late 20's, and he's exactly the type of player/pick the Bulls should be going for.

Well said. Bobby is a guy I'd want to keep, but IMO it comes down to the me that the opportunity cost of keeping him is losing the opportunity to sign a second impact FA.

[bigworld2017]

We aren't going to sign an impact free agent. Kevin Durant isn't coming to Chicago, and none of the rest of the crop of Free Agents in 2019 are worth over $35 Million a year. Butler wants $191 Million over 5 years. In the last 3 years of that contract, should he get it, some poor team will be shelling out close to $40 Million a year for a diminishing player. The Bulls are going to see what the young guys can bring this year when they aren't be held back to improve our draft slot.

[gardenofsound]

We aren't going to sign an impact free agent. Kevin Durant isn't coming to Chicago, and none of the rest of the crop of Free Agents in 2019 are worth over $35 Million a year. Butler wants $191 Million over 5 years. In the last 3 years of that contract, should he get it, some poor team will be shelling out close to $40 Million a year for a diminishing player. The Bulls are going to see what the young guys can bring this year when they aren't be held back to improve our draft slot.

Love it or hate it, the NBA comes down to cap management above all. Look at the teams that are excelling. They excel because they managed their cap situation splendidly (GSW, Boston), and made sure they had trade-able assets (Houston, Boston, Philly).

Ultimately, the CORE (top 4-5 players) is what matters, and the core is what you retain for bigger money. Every other asset has to be a value deal, either on the rookie scale or using the BAE/MLE/VetMin exceptions. Sixth man can make the money, but I think, in today's NBA, that 6th man getting paid needs to be a ball handling PG or wing, ESPECIALLY if they're only a one way player.

See, for me it's not even just a Kevin Durant level player I"m worried about. I'm worried about the Lou Williams types also. I'm hopeful that Blakeney can turn into that type of a player, but if the Bulls core shows major potential this year with at least three of Dunn/Lauri/Carter/LaVine/Parker showing that they are on a star trajectory over the next year, the Bulls are either going to want to restock the pipeline (draft picks) or fill the gaps around these guys with complementary players.

Also... just to be out there with it - this is CHICAGO. It's the third largest market in the country, and the two larger markets than us have two teams. If the Bulls put themselves in a position to sign a marquee free agent then miss on the attempt, I'm a lot happier with that than I would be with them giving up prematurely. That's a loser's mentality. So we hit a ground rule double in 2010 while the Heat hit a grand slam... we still need to put ourselves in the position to be able to capitalize when those types of players are hitting the market.

If it's the Bobby Portis contract that hurts our chances of landing Giannis when he hits free agency, I'm gonna be upset. And BTW, Chicago has the second largest Greek diaspora in the country behind NYC. That cannot hurt the pitch. Greektown is a hop skip and jump from the UC/Advocate lol.

[bigworld2017]

We aren't going to sign an impact free agent. Kevin Durant isn't coming to Chicago, and none of the rest of the crop of Free Agents in 2019 are worth over $35 Million a year. Butler wants $191 Million over 5 years. In the last 3 years of that contract, should he get it, some poor team will be shelling out close to $40 Million a year for a diminishing player. The Bulls are going to see what the young guys can bring this year when they aren't be held back to improve our draft slot.

If it's the Bobby Portis contract that hurts our chances of landing Giannis when he hits free agency, I'm gonna be upset. And BTW, Chicago has the second largest Greek diaspora in the country behind NYC. That cannot hurt the pitch. Greektown is a hop skip and jump from the UC/Advocate lol.

I like Giannis as a player. But how do you pair him up with the bigs we have? Can Lauri and Giannis play on the court at the came time? How about Giannis and Carter? Can Giannis play the "3" ? The Bulls might be shooting for a more balanced use of the cap. There is no rule that says you have to have 2 or 3 max players and scrub fillers to win. Why not 3 x $20 Million a year guys, 4 x $10 Million a year guys, and the rest of the team splitting the remaining $20 million of the cap? The team GarPax is assembling is going to be able to score. If they can just implement a defensive scheme that is modestly effective we should make the playoffs this year. I don't think we need a max free agent eating up 1/4 to 1/3 of the salary cap all by himself. I'd rather see the coaching staff help our current players be the best they can be. If each of our guys eventually maximizes his potential we're going to be in the hunt to challenge in the East in a couple years. Boston and Philly will be our primary competitors.

[GimmeDat]

I'm really interested in keeping an eye on the PG battle in Phoenix. The position is completely open for them, and there's a bunch of guys that are going to be battling it out for minutes - Elie Okobo, DeAnthony Melton, and Shaquille Harrison. There's also Isaiah Canaan who we all know, he was actually playing exceptionally for them last season before he had a serious injury.

The first 2 I'm sure many of you are familiar with.. both rookies that are looking very promising. I'm high on the NBA potential in both of them. So if any of those guys are on the outside looking in, I'd love to try and swoop in and grab them.

But Shaq Harrison, this is a name I hadn't really come across. I'd seen him on some box scores, and he never really stood out, so I didn't think much of him. But I've been doing some reading around on him and I'm a big fan. He sounds like a stud defender who made the Suns a lot better when he was on the floor, he's a super athlete with a really quick first step, and he's a competent offensive threat that shot 48% from the field while averaging 14 points per 36. I think he's still learning the nuances of the PG position but he's got a decent feel. He also obviously beat out Ulis for a roster spot, so there's that as well. A lot of Suns fans really like him and think he should start. He's 24, btw, and going in to his 2nd year.

I went and watched some footage, here's an example of one of his better games -

Watch on YouTube

As you can see, he really pops athletically. Yes, he's an older rookie at 24, but he looks like one of the guys with the requisite dynamism to really establish himself as a legit NBA piece. The only thing is he doesn't really look to take the 3 ball, he shot 6/26 in 384 minutes last season.. that being said, his form looks very solid and he shot 74% from the line, which isn't bad, so maybe it's something he refines.

I'm guessing he makes the Suns rotation being the non-rookie and displaying all those abilities he's actually quite a nice fit for them, but I like the attributes of all their young guards and if any falls out of the rotation, I'd be looking in to it. I like Payne, I think he's set for a solid year, but it's also make or break, and we don't have a 3rd PG as it is.

Suns have quite a few guys that might be crunched by the teams depth - Davon Reed I liked as a prospect. I even wonder where Josh Jackson fits in to their lineup with Ariza, Warren and Ryan Anderson covering the forward spots. If Jackson's value goes down to anything less than an absolute premium, I'd be looking deeply in to that. And Dragan Bender has been a disappointment, but he's slowly getting more serviceable and could develop in to a nice 3rd/4th big for us, especially if Portis' future is up in the air.

[GimmeDat]

We aren't going to sign an impact free agent. Kevin Durant isn't coming to Chicago, and none of the rest of the crop of Free Agents in 2019 are worth over $35 Million a year. Butler wants $191 Million over 5 years. In the last 3 years of that contract, should he get it, some poor team will be shelling out close to $40 Million a year for a diminishing player. The Bulls are going to see what the young guys can bring this year when they aren't be held back to improve our draft slot.

If it's the Bobby Portis contract that hurts our chances of landing Giannis when he hits free agency, I'm gonna be upset. And BTW, Chicago has the second largest Greek diaspora in the country behind NYC. That cannot hurt the pitch. Greektown is a hop skip and jump from the UC/Advocate lol.

I like Giannis as a player. But how do you pair him up with the bigs we have? Can Lauri and Giannis play on the court at the came time? How about Giannis and Carter? Can Giannis play the "3" ? The Bulls might be shooting for a more balanced use of the cap. There is no rule that says you have to have 2 or 3 max players and scrub fillers to win. Why not 3 x $20 Million a year guys, 4 x $10 Million a year guys, and the rest of the team splitting the remaining $20 million of the cap? The team GarPax is assembling is going to be able to score. If they can just implement a defensive scheme that is modestly effective we should make the playoffs this year. I don't think we need a max free agent eating up 1/4 to 1/3 of the salary cap all by himself. I'd rather see the coaching staff help our current players be the best they can be. If each of our guys eventually maximizes his potential we're going to be in the hunt to challenge in the East in a couple years. Boston and Philly will be our primary competitors.

If you can get Giannis you just pick him up and worry about the fit later. I don't think he can play the 3, he's a 4, maybe even 5 in some lineups. The best fit imo would be something like this -

PF - Giannis (30) / Lauri (18)
C - Lauri (16) / Giannis (4) / Carter (24)

Obviously it's hard to get them all 30+ minutes given you're adding a superstar in to the front-court, but in theory I think both guys fit pretty well because of their stretch ability.

All a pipedream anyway, imo.

[Butler4thewin]

What would it take to get rozier off the celtics ?

[kodo]

What would it take to get rozier off the celtics ?

With Kyrie's healthy history, I'm doing anything possible to keep Rozier if I'm Ainge.

Very surprised they gave Smart that contract considering this.

[Butler4thewin]

What would it take to get rozier off the celtics ?

With Kyrie's healthy history, I'm doing anything possible to keep Rozier if I'm Ainge.

Very surprised they gave Smart that contract considering this.

Yea I see rozier as a player who will be similar to dunns impact only slightly less of a defender but offensively a rondo who can actually hit the 3 consistently .....I feel with our group of guys he would be a nice addition

[KevinPandawong]

I'm still disappointed the Bulls didn't use their cap this summer to take on salary for young assets. Charlotte seems desperate to trim their luxury tax bill. What about a trade for Biyombo+Bridges for Asik+Mirotic's TPE? It would be a shame to let that huge TPE expire for nothing with so many dead contracts around the league.

[sco]

I'm still disappointed the Bulls didn't use their cap this summer to take on salary for young assets. Charlotte seems desperate to trim their luxury tax bill. What about a trade for Biyombo+Bridges for Asik+Mirotic's TPE? It would be a shame to let that huge TPE expire for nothing with so many dead contracts around the league.

No way they're dealing Bridges for tax relief, but I'd throw in Portis and Hutchison to make a deal there.

Alternatively, I'd see if they'd do Felicio and Holiday for Biyombo and Lamb. I'd like another viable SF to try...not sure Parker will work.

[GimmeDat]

I just want to say that there were at least some people here that were wanting to trade the 2019 pick last season as part of deals. I hope we can all agree now that that probably would've been a bad idea.

[KevinPandawong]

I'm still disappointed the Bulls didn't use their cap this summer to take on salary for young assets. Charlotte seems desperate to trim their luxury tax bill. What about a trade for Biyombo+Bridges for Asik+Mirotic's TPE? It would be a shame to let that huge TPE expire for nothing with so many dead contracts around the league.

No way they're dealing Bridges for tax relief, but I'd throw in Portis and Hutchison to make a deal there.

Alternatively, I'd see if they'd do Felicio and Holiday for Biyombo and Lamb. I'd like another viable SF to try...not sure Parker will work.

Yeah after watching Bridges' PS highlights, I can definitively say I undervalued him. If Portis+Hutch to take on Biyombo's terrible deal nets you Bridges than I'm willing to call Ainge and Morey scrubs over GarPax. That kid can defend anyone, he's just as strong and quick as anyone, and his jumper is looking good.

[HomoSapien]

Butler's trade value is so low that Josh Richardson and a protected 1st is the offer to beat.

Does this do it?

Portis/Valentine/Felicio/Asik

[Onibuh]

Butler's trade value is so low that Josh Richardson and a protected 1st is the offer to beat.

Does this do it?

Portis/Valentine/Felicio/Asik

Do we want him back?
Will Hoiberg get fired the Moment the trade is finalized?
Will Butler stay and the Bulls are willing to pay him now?

[bigworld2017]

Butler's trade value is so low that Josh Richardson and a protected 1st is the offer to beat.

Does this do it?

Portis/Valentine/Felicio/Asik

Do we want him back?
Will Hoiberg get fired the Moment the trade is finalized?
Will Butler stay and the Bulls are willing to pay him now?

I don't want Butler back even if we could get him for Valentine straight up. I don't want to invest a third of the upcoming salary cap in one player that has a lot of mileage and has shown diva tendencies. He might increase our win total by 10 games, just enough to put us in draft slot limbo. But he doesn't make us a contender. He's a good player. He isn't a unicorn. He doesn't make us better than Boston or Philly. His time here has come and gone. He belongs in L.A. The Clippers are the perfect destination for him.

[ChettheJet]

If Thibs is dumb enough to make that deal the Bulls should jump, and I mean high and quickly to do it. Even if Jimmy ends up leaving you've got the potential for a S&T when he goes again. He makes the Bulls exponentially better. He starts at the 3 Parker comes off the bench behind Jimmy and Lauri, Holiday backs up Lavine. It ups the defense from the starters and the scoring off the bench.

With the added benefit of dumping the Felicio and Asik contracts, not having to extend Portis. The loss is Valentine's versatility but that a small price to pay for an all star.

[sh0ck]

Butler would be a perfect basketball fit with all these shooters (while covering a lot of defensive issues).

I'd pretty much give up anyone not named Wendell Carter Jr. and Lauri Markkannen.

[Onibuh]

Butler's trade value is so low that Josh Richardson and a protected 1st is the offer to beat.

Does this do it?

Portis/Valentine/Felicio/Asik

Do we want him back?
Will Hoiberg get fired the Moment the trade is finalized?
Will Butler stay and the Bulls are willing to pay him now?

I don't want Butler back even if we could get him for Valentine straight up. I don't want to invest a third of the upcoming salary cap in one player that has a lot of mileage and has shown diva tendencies. He might increase our win total by 10 games, just enough to put us in draft slot limbo. But he doesn't make us a contender. He's a good player. He isn't a unicorn. He doesn't make us better than Boston or Philly. His time here has come and gone. He belongs in L.A. The Clippers are the perfect destination for him.

What if Butler is Right? He is not the most talented Player or the most naturally gifted. He is dedicated and passionate. He wants to win.
What if Butler does not see the fire needed with KAT and Wiggins and he is smart enough to know it won't be KAT/Wiggins/Thibs going. What if our Younger (all that were here with him) are not into Winning and are sloppy?
Maybe it's not being a Diva, more a Player realizing he wastes his prime years around losing Players. What if you have the drive and will of Butler with Dunn and Lauri? We pay 20 Million to Parker...
If Pax can get Butler for Valentine and Felicio and just a bit more (knowing he signs the Extension) Butler would be here already. This package won't do it.

[sh0ck]

Do we want him back?
Will Hoiberg get fired the Moment the trade is finalized?
Will Butler stay and the Bulls are willing to pay him now?

I don't want Butler back even if we could get him for Valentine straight up. I don't want to invest a third of the upcoming salary cap in one player that has a lot of mileage and has shown diva tendencies. He might increase our win total by 10 games, just enough to put us in draft slot limbo. But he doesn't make us a contender. He's a good player. He isn't a unicorn. He doesn't make us better than Boston or Philly. His time here has come and gone. He belongs in L.A. The Clippers are the perfect destination for him.

What if Butler is Right? He is not the most talented Player or the most naturally gifted. He is dedicated and passionate. He wants to win.
What if Butler does not see the fire needed with KAT and Wiggins and he is smart enough to know it won't be KAT/Wiggins/Thibs going. What if our Younger (all that were here with him) are not into Winning and are sloppy?
Maybe it's not being a Diva, more a Player realizing he wastes his prime years around losing Players. What if you have the drive and will of Butler with Dunn and Lauri? We pay 20 Million to Parker...
If Pax can get Butler for Valentine and Felicio and just a bit more (knowing he signs the Extension) Butler would be here already. This package won't do it.

Keep in mind. All the teammates he called out in 2017 are either not on the Bulls or not in the league. And I haven't seen anything from Hoiberg that suggests he's even an average NBA head coach.

Maybe he was right then, and right now.