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Butler has requested a trade (Part II)

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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1181 » by minimus » Fri Oct 5, 2018 3:51 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
shrink wrote:Superstars drive the nba, and determine the course of franchises. A legit superstar is a value contract, limited in size due to that same max deal clause. I would be shocked if Taylor wouldn’t pay Jimmy the max at the end of the season,


Would you offer max to Butler of he gets injured againt this season? Looking at IT4 story I am not so sure

Any player can get injured. Curry and Rubio used to be injury risks. Can't live in fear.


It is not about fear. It is about risks that every GM should consider when gives a max to player.
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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1182 » by twix2500 » Fri Oct 5, 2018 5:13 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
shrink wrote:Superstars drive the nba, and determine the course of franchises. A legit superstar is a value contract, limited in size due to that same max deal clause. I would be shocked if Taylor wouldn’t pay Jimmy the max at the end of the season,


Would you offer max to Butler of he gets injured againt this season? Looking at IT4 story I am not so sure

Any player can get injured. Curry and Rubio used to be injury risks. Can't live in fear.
I agree with this. If his injury was chronic like Stoudemire or Grant Hill who even when they return they are dealing with the injury, than yes. Butler heals from his injury 100%. Also, you have to forecast who would you be replacing Butler salary slot with if he walks? It's just like some of you guys do not want to trade Butler for Tyler Johnson and Justice Winslow. Well if he walks, what if all you do with his caproom is sign Justice Winslow and Tyler Johnson quality players? Kind of of going in circles, different direction same result

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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1183 » by shrink » Fri Oct 5, 2018 5:15 pm

BBallFreak wrote:
shrink wrote:
Streakers33 wrote:So we don’t want Whiteside and Miami doesn’t want Dieng... so we move down to

Butler and taj
For
Richardson, bam, Tyler Johnson, FRP
???

The Ringer and others say, “It seems like the deal is Jason Richardson, Bam Adebayo and a pick for Jimmy Butler.”

If so, Tyler Johnson ($19.2, $19.2) for an expiring Taj Gibson ($14) is not an even swap. I get that MIA has financial concerns going forward, but so does MIN if Dieng isn’t in the deal and Tyler Johnson is in.
So what's the filler? No Dieng without Waiters.

That seems fair. For MIA, it consolidates talent into a star and balances the roster. MIN gets some youth and complimentary pieces.

New line ups

Teague, Tyus Jones, Rose
Richardson, Waiters
Wiggins, Okogi, KBD
Taj, Tolliver, Luol
KAT, Bam

Dragic
T. Johnson, Wade, Ellington
Butler, Winslow, McGruder
J. Johnson, Olynyk
Whiteside, Dieng
Sign5 wrote:Yea not happening, I expected a better retort but what do I expect from realgm(ers) in 2025. Just quote and state things that lack context, then repeat the same thing over and over as if something new and profound was said. Just lol.
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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1184 » by twix2500 » Fri Oct 5, 2018 5:19 pm

shrink wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:
shrink wrote:The Ringer and others say, “It seems like the deal is Jason Richardson, Bam Adebayo and a pick for Jimmy Butler.”

If so, Tyler Johnson ($19.2, $19.2) for an expiring Taj Gibson ($14) is not an even swap. I get that MIA has financial concerns going forward, but so does MIN if Dieng isn’t in the deal and Tyler Johnson is in.
So what's the filler? No Dieng without Waiters.

That seems fair. For MIA, it consolidates talent into a star and balances the roster. MIN gets some youth and complimentary pieces.

New line ups

Teague, Tyus Jones, Rose
Richardson, Waiters
Wiggins, Okogi, KBD
Taj, Tolliver, Luol
KAT, Bam

Dragic
T. Johnson, Wade, Ellington
Butler, Winslow, McGruder
J. Johnson, Olynyk
Whiteside, Dieng
Shrink what is the Wolves financial goals. How does 2 yrs of Tyler (This year and next) prevents the Wolves from their financial goal? Is their a salary cap goal for this coming summer?

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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1185 » by BBallFreak » Fri Oct 5, 2018 5:20 pm

twix2500 wrote:
shrink wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:So what's the filler? No Dieng without Waiters.

That seems fair. For MIA, it consolidates talent into a star and balances the roster. MIN gets some youth and complimentary pieces.

New line ups

Teague, Tyus Jones, Rose
Richardson, Waiters
Wiggins, Okogi, KBD
Taj, Tolliver, Luol
KAT, Bam

Dragic
T. Johnson, Wade, Ellington
Butler, Winslow, McGruder
J. Johnson, Olynyk
Whiteside, Dieng
Shrink what is the Wolves financial goals. How does 2 yrs of Tyler (This year and next) prevents the Wolves from their financial goal? Is their a salary cap goal for this coming summer?

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They're trying to stay out of the tax. A reasonable goal.
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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1186 » by Rashodamus » Fri Oct 5, 2018 5:24 pm

Macwolf527 wrote:Speculation, Speculation, Speculation, it's all just Speculation.

Fact, The Timberwolves own Jimmy Butler's Bird Rights.
Fact, Jimmy Butler can count and knows the value of $50 million dollars.
Fact, Glen Taylor is a billionaire who will pay for winning.
Fact, The Heat can't sign Jimmy Butler in the offseason for even 10 cents.
Fact, The Heat will pony up what Thibs wants or find some other team(sucker) willing to give them an NBA All-Star for Chumps and Chump-Change.
Fact, Thibs is not a Chump.

The rest is just Speculation!

and one more FACT, Layden has been operating in NBA front offices since 1999 and has played all the games. He's not a Chump either.

The rest is "All Together".......JUST SPECULATION! I'm sick of SPECULATION!


I think Thibs and Layden are both predictable chumps. I think them being chumps is why we are in this position to begin with. And when this saga ends I believe we will have even more proof of them being chumps.

Riley vs Thibs, which one is the chump in that competition? :lol: Which one is going to get a player at .50 on the dollar and which is going to have to sell one at .50 on the dollar? The fact Thibs is even talking to Miami shows hes a chump, theres nothing on that roster we should value in a Butler trade.
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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1187 » by miwolvesfan » Fri Oct 5, 2018 5:33 pm

Kind of seems like something is ready to happen between now and gametime tonight for Miami. JRich is cleared to play in his first game, according to injury report, and I don't think they will play him if he is on the table for a trade. If Thibs asked for JRich, Bam and First Round Pick, I think it makes sense to settle for JRich and Whiteside (KAT's buddy) for Dieng and Butler. No picks involved at all.
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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1188 » by shrink » Fri Oct 5, 2018 5:35 pm

BBallFreak wrote:
twix2500 wrote:Shrink what is the Wolves financial goals. How does 2 yrs of Tyler (This year and next) prevents the Wolves from their financial goal? Is their a salary cap goal for this coming summer?
They're trying to stay out of the tax. A reasonable goal.

Yep. MIN is right up against the tax right now. Taylor has paid the tax in the past when he had a legit contender, so the plan was to pay Jimmy the max next year, but stay under this year to keep the repeater clock from starting. I don’t think Taylor would see the Wolves as legit contenders after this trade, so I think they would refuse to do a deal where they add salary.

You make a good point though. In 2016, when everyone was spending like crazy, Thibs wisely sat out with our cap space, and just signed short term bench players, Jordan Hill (exp), Brandon Rush (exp) and Cole Aldrich (2 yrs +1 partially guaranteed .. thought to be a hometown discount at the time). He kept his powder dry until 2017, where he signed Teague, Taj Griffin, and Crawford. He paid a bit more to keep the deals short, 2 years, with only Teague with a PO on year 3. This coincided with Jimmy’s deal expiring. The Wolves were locked into a two year window, and they left themselves a financial escape hatch in 2019.

That plan may have backfired. The Wiggins max was always assumed (not saying that was wise) and the Gorgui extension looked acceptable at the time. With the other free agents getting paid for two years too, this made it nearly impossible to cut $30 mil under the salary cap to legally renegotiate Jimmy’s deal, which he says is the main reason he wants out.
—————
Flash forward to this deal. Paying Tyler Johnson plus Richardson would be more expensive than Butler, plus you need to pay Bam and the FRP. Now, Waiters isn’t as good, and his deal runs an uncomfortable three years, but so did Dieng’s and for more money. At least the other three pieces are economical, and letting Taj expires helps make the money work. MIN may pay Tyus Jones, but perhaps if they can trade Waiters now or later for a two year deal with less money on it, they may be back to financial balance in 2020.
Sign5 wrote:Yea not happening, I expected a better retort but what do I expect from realgm(ers) in 2025. Just quote and state things that lack context, then repeat the same thing over and over as if something new and profound was said. Just lol.
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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1189 » by miwolvesfan » Fri Oct 5, 2018 5:37 pm

Five Reasons Sports Network guys out of Miami say no possible way Twolves would get both BAM and Richardson. They seem pretty connected. I think that is just what Thibs asked for. Just like he asked for Ben Simmons.
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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1190 » by Macwolf527 » Fri Oct 5, 2018 5:44 pm

Rashodamus wrote:
Macwolf527 wrote:Speculation, Speculation, Speculation, it's all just Speculation.

Fact, The Timberwolves own Jimmy Butler's Bird Rights.
Fact, Jimmy Butler can count and knows the value of $50 million dollars.
Fact, Glen Taylor is a billionaire who will pay for winning.
Fact, The Heat can't sign Jimmy Butler in the offseason for even 10 cents.
Fact, The Heat will pony up what Thibs wants or find some other team(sucker) willing to give them an NBA All-Star for Chumps and Chump-Change.
Fact, Thibs is not a Chump.

The rest is just Speculation!

and one more FACT, Layden has been operating in NBA front offices since 1999 and has played all the games. He's not a Chump either.

The rest is "All Together".......JUST SPECULATION! I'm sick of SPECULATION!


I think Thibs and Layden are both predictable chumps. I think them being chumps is why we are in this position to begin with. And when this saga ends I believe we will have even more proof of them being chumps.

Riley vs Thibs, which one is the chump in that competition? :lol: Which one is going to get a player at .50 on the dollar and which is going to have to sell one at .50 on the dollar? The fact Thibs is even talking to Miami shows hes a chump, theres nothing on that roster we should value in a Butler trade.


You have an all out prize fight and want to determine the winner, well it's the one standing when it's over. The problem is that everybody is assuming that Miami is the end goal. So cocky, that they never consider you're being used for a higher intent and purpose. It's this overblown confidence that make you so easy to manipulate. What if Thibs goal is to only say we tried, but couldn't make it work. No problem. we'll just keep our .50 on the dollar in the fold. Thank you for playing, "We never wanted to trade him in the first place."
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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1191 » by twix2500 » Fri Oct 5, 2018 5:45 pm

BBallFreak wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
shrink wrote:That seems fair. For MIA, it consolidates talent into a star and balances the roster. MIN gets some youth and complimentary pieces.

New line ups

Teague, Tyus Jones, Rose
Richardson, Waiters
Wiggins, Okogi, KBD
Taj, Tolliver, Luol
KAT, Bam

Dragic
T. Johnson, Wade, Ellington
Butler, Winslow, McGruder
J. Johnson, Olynyk
Whiteside, Dieng
Shrink what is the Wolves financial goals. How does 2 yrs of Tyler (This year and next) prevents the Wolves from their financial goal? Is their a salary cap goal for this coming summer?

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They're trying to stay out of the tax. A reasonable goal.
But those salaries do not add up. JRich, Waiters and Bam is 25 mill. Butler and Dieng is 35 mill. Minny has to take on 10 mill

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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1192 » by Rashodamus » Fri Oct 5, 2018 5:47 pm

Macwolf527 wrote:You have an all out prize fight and want to determine the winner, well it's the one standing when it's over. The problem is that everybody is assuming that Miami is the end goal. So cocky, that they never consider you're being used for a higher intent and purpose. It's this overblown confidence that make you so easy to manipulate. What if Thibs goal is to only say we tried, but couldn't make it work. No problem. we'll just keep our .50 on the dollar in the fold. Thank you for playing, "We never wanted to trade him in the first place."


Then hes a delusional and incompetent idiot.
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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1193 » by Macwolf527 » Fri Oct 5, 2018 5:48 pm

Rashodamus wrote:
Macwolf527 wrote:You have an all out prize fight and want to determine the winner, well it's the one standing when it's over. The problem is that everybody is assuming that Miami is the end goal. So cocky, that they never consider you're being used for a higher intent and purpose. It's this overblown confidence that make you so easy to manipulate. What if Thibs goal is to only say we tried, but couldn't make it work. No problem. we'll just keep our .50 on the dollar in the fold. Thank you for playing, "We never wanted to trade him in the first place."


Then hes a delusional and incompetent idiot.


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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1194 » by minimus » Fri Oct 5, 2018 5:50 pm

At least Dieng is a hard worker and is positive locker room presence. Thibs as GM is awful, because it is completely different from coaching. He overpaid every FA, why he rushed deals with Gibson, Teague, Wiggins, Dieng? To assemble the roster that he wanted?
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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1195 » by Macwolf527 » Fri Oct 5, 2018 5:56 pm

minimus wrote:At least Dieng is a hard worker and is positive locker room presence. Thibs as GM is awful, because it is completely different from coaching. He overpaid every FA, why he rushed deals with Gibson, Teague, Wiggins, Dieng? To assemble the roster that he wanted?


I can't believe you cats. Do you know how hard it is to win in the NBA? We were in 3rd place prior to Butler's injury last year and that was with the worst bench in the league and you believe this is because Thibs can't assemble a roster. I long for the days of old when players just showed up to play and honored the contracts they committed too. You can't put that childlike behavior on Thibs. Thibs drives me crazy on the sidelines, but 2 things I absolutely trust him on is COACHING and ASSESSING TALENT. The rest of this crap is just glamour and wrecking the game.

No one knew Crawford would be as terrible as he was last year or that Shabazz would bomb out. Those 2 players alone changed the trajectory of our bench last year. Butler getting hurt, also weakened our bench because it took a vital part of it, Belly and inserted him into the starting line-up. Yet we still won 47 games. We were one injury away from winning games into the mid 50's or higher. Come on, let's be realistic.
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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1196 » by twix2500 » Fri Oct 5, 2018 6:04 pm

twix2500 wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:
twix2500 wrote:Shrink what is the Wolves financial goals. How does 2 yrs of Tyler (This year and next) prevents the Wolves from their financial goal? Is their a salary cap goal for this coming summer?

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They're trying to stay out of the tax. A reasonable goal.
But those salaries do not add up. JRich, Waiters and Bam is 25 mill. Butler and Dieng is 35 mill. Minny has to take on 10 mill

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I estimated that the Wolves will have 96 mill in committed salary this summer if they let Butler walk. The salary cap projected to be 109 mill, the luxury cap will be 132 this summer. They would be at 116 with TJ in place of Waiters. 15 mill under the luxury cap.

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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1197 » by minimus » Fri Oct 5, 2018 6:06 pm

Macwolf527 wrote:
minimus wrote:At least Dieng is a hard worker and is positive locker room presence. Thibs as GM is awful, because it is completely different from coaching. He overpaid every FA, why he rushed deals with Gibson, Teague, Wiggins, Dieng? To assemble the roster that he wanted?


I can't believe you cats. Do you know how hard it is to win in the NBA? We were in 3rd place prior to Butler's injury last year and that was with the worst bench in the league and you believe this is because Thibs can't coach or assemble a roster. I long for the days of old when players just showed up to play and honored the contracts they committed too. You can't put that childlike behavior on Thibs. Thibs drives me crazy on the sidelines, but 2 things I absolutely trust him on is COACHING and ASSESSING TALENT. The rest of this crap is just glamour and wrecking the game.
But at what cost? To be in 8th seed and get into first round of playoffs Thibs used all resources that he had: cap, space, picks, young players. He invested everything. Let me remind you that this situation with Butler is also on Thibs. As for coaching, I did not see much of coaching. Heck, Thibs did not even know timeouts rules.
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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1198 » by Loyal[]Wolf » Fri Oct 5, 2018 6:10 pm

Jon Krawczynski: Jeff Teague was asked how Jimmy would fit back into the locker room if he came back: “it would be nice. That’s my friend. But that’s not up to me.” - via Twitter JonKrawczynski
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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1199 » by AirP. » Fri Oct 5, 2018 6:11 pm

minimus wrote:
Macwolf527 wrote:
minimus wrote:At least Dieng is a hard worker and is positive locker room presence. Thibs as GM is awful, because it is completely different from coaching. He overpaid every FA, why he rushed deals with Gibson, Teague, Wiggins, Dieng? To assemble the roster that he wanted?


I can't believe you cats. Do you know how hard it is to win in the NBA? We were in 3rd place prior to Butler's injury last year and that was with the worst bench in the league and you believe this is because Thibs can't coach or assemble a roster. I long for the days of old when players just showed up to play and honored the contracts they committed too. You can't put that childlike behavior on Thibs. Thibs drives me crazy on the sidelines, but 2 things I absolutely trust him on is COACHING and ASSESSING TALENT. The rest of this crap is just glamour and wrecking the game.
But at what cost? To be in 8th seed and get into first round of playoffs Thibs used all resources that he had: cap, space, picks, young players. He invested everything. Let me remind you that this situation with Butler is also on Thibs. As for coaching, I did not see much of coaching. Heck, Thibs did not even know when timeouts rules.

He didn't invest everything, he wanted to move Wiggins in the Butler deal which Taylor blocked within the first 10 minutes of talking with Chicago. I'm pretty sure Wiggins and Dunn as the main pieces would have gotten Butler and you would have had Markkanen instead of Patton.. and LaVine(if you matched). Having 2 overlapping talents like Butler and Wiggins at the wings(both needed the ball, neither that good off the ball because of their shooting) did limit how good Minnesota could be last year. If you want to just ignore Taylor vetoing things we can go with hiring Thibs and then just butting heads with him, seems a really bad idea for hiring people.
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Re: Butler has requested a trade (Part II) 

Post#1200 » by AirP. » Fri Oct 5, 2018 6:14 pm

Loyal[]Wolf wrote:Jon Krawczynski: Jeff Teague was asked how Jimmy would fit back into the locker room if he came back: “it would be nice. That’s my friend. But that’s not up to me.” - via Twitter JonKrawczynski


Listening to Thibs, he sounds like he knows Butler isn't coming back, who knows things change but that's what it sounded like to me in this particular clip.
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