10/16 | G1: Oklahoma City Thunder at Golden State Warriors - 9:30 CST

[getrichordie]

Grant doesn't match up better defensively than Patterson. Against any team.

I think you are overrating Patterson on defense.


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[Pillendreher]

Grant doesn't match up better defensively than Patterson. Against any team.

I think you are overrating Patterson on defense.


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I think it's the other way around. Out of the two PFs on our roster, Patterson is the one impacting the game in a positive way even when he doesn't score, not Grant.

[getrichordie]

Grant doesn't match up better defensively than Patterson. Against any team.

I think you are overrating Patterson on defense.


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I think it's the other way around. Out of the two PFs on our roster, Patterson is the one impacting the game in a positive way even when he doesn't score, not Grant.

Please. Elaborate. What is Patterson doing that Grant isn’t to make a bigger impact on defense?


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[dakomish23]

What a difference it makes to have a legitimate back up C in the game. Noel had good activity out there.

[EnragedThunder]

Billy Donovan I hope coaches to win games, not preserve trade value. This is professional sports and a business. If Ferguson can't produce by now, bench him and start Diallo.

I'd bet money Ferguson wouldn't start on any NBA roster. If by game 3 Ferguson is still non-existent on the court, I hope as a fan that Donovan has the stones to make the right move.

[Pillendreher]

I think you are overrating Patterson on defense.


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I think it's the other way around. Out of the two PFs on our roster, Patterson is the one impacting the game in a positive way even when he doesn't score, not Grant.

Please. Elaborate. What is Patterson doing that Grant isn’t to make a bigger impact on defense?


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-Defend in space.
-Close out on opposing players.
-Not going for highlight blocks when an opposing attack can be defended just as well without it
-Directing teammates while defending

Patterson is such a good team defender. I know he doesn't get highlights for it, but it still helps the team in a way that Grant simply can't. This idea of Grant as a good defender is based on his athleticism and the assumption that he should be able to do things on the court that others can't because of said athleticism. He's not a defensive scrub, but he's simply not as good as you (and some fools within the Thunder) make him out to be.

[ThunderBolt]

Patterson looks so much quicker. He just didn’t hit hit shots. Simple as that.

[spearsy23]

Patterson looks so much quicker. He just didn’t hit hit shots. Simple as that.

Which is going to happen, he's always been a pretty high variance guy that looks like he'll splash everything for a week then forgets how to shoot for the next two. He's good enough from three that you have to respect him, and that's the most important thing for us offensively. Defensively he's a very good pf, it's a shame he had to play center last year.

[Old Man Game]

I'm probably putting too much faith in Bill Doh to behave rationally here, but I feel like the Ferg v. Diallo thing will sort itself out. If Diallo is honestly better in practice and when on the floor, he'll see more minutes. And ultimately that's what counts. If that happens and they want to continue to start Ferg instead to preserve his (apparently) fragile ego and confidence, that's fine too.

preserve his value.

Are opposing GMs daft? If the narrative becomes the guy getting the bulk of the minutes is better and the numbers bear that out, what difference will Ferg starting have on his value whatsoever?

[spearsy23]

I'm probably putting too much faith in Bill Doh to behave rationally here, but I feel like the Ferg v. Diallo thing will sort itself out. If Diallo is honestly better in practice and when on the floor, he'll see more minutes. And ultimately that's what counts. If that happens and they want to continue to start Ferg instead to preserve his (apparently) fragile ego and confidence, that's fine too.

preserve his value.

Are opposing GMs daft? If the narrative becomes the guy getting the bulk of the minutes is better and the numbers bear that out, what difference will Ferg starting have on his value whatsoever?

I think optics mean a lot more than we often assume. These guys all respect each other to some degree, it Ferguson is starting there's going to be sure presumption around the league that he's performing well. When you view a guy positively or negatively you try to maintain consistency, you're going to cling to the things that support your initial presumption.

[slick_watts]

I'm probably putting too much faith in Bill Doh to behave rationally here, but I feel like the Ferg v. Diallo thing will sort itself out. If Diallo is honestly better in practice and when on the floor, he'll see more minutes. And ultimately that's what counts. If that happens and they want to continue to start Ferg instead to preserve his (apparently) fragile ego and confidence, that's fine too.

preserve his value.

Are opposing GMs daft? If the narrative becomes the guy getting the bulk of the minutes is better and the numbers bear that out, what difference will Ferg starting have on his value whatsoever?

the numbers can only bear that out in hindsight. we don't know they will. we are accepting the risk that they won't, and ferguson's value is crushed, for no reason.

[Marcus50]

There were some encouraging signs despite the patchy shooting and horrible first half. Fergusson Diallo and Abrines all showed effort on the defensive end. Adam's back was giving him problems and his mobility looked affected and he and Patterson struggled to contain the GSW bigs on the boards, some of it was Adams mobility but was also communication between Adams and Patterson.
George shooting was poor in the first half and hot in the third quarter, Schroder is going to be a hell of an asset as backup to Russ. Noel was good and affected more shots that the stat line gave him credit for.

George stood up in the second half and his head to head with Durant was great to watch. Adams despite limited mobility got through a power of work 17p 11rb 4as 2st plus 17 contested shots, 8 Screen assists and 24 boxouts. Yet the eye test suggested he was not up to his normal standard

[Old Man Game]

preserve his value.

Are opposing GMs daft? If the narrative becomes the guy getting the bulk of the minutes is better and the numbers bear that out, what difference will Ferg starting have on his value whatsoever?

the numbers can only bear that out in hindsight. we don't know they will. we are accepting the risk that they won't, and ferguson's value is crushed, for no reason.

In this hypothetical scenario picture Ferg continuing to start, but Diallo or Abrines being obviously better over the bulk of the season when Ferg subs out. This isn't too far fetched a scenario in my mind. SO, what I'm saying is, if that comes to pass, why would Ferguson continuing to start matter at all in terms of assessing his value? I'd think opposing teams' player/personnel people would just evaluate Ferg for what he was. They might even be like, 'Jesus I don't know what the **** Donovan was doing going with him as the starter when the team was X points per 100 possession better with Abrines on the floor with the rest of the starters.' I don't think they'd give Ferg bonus points for a coaching staff sticking with him no matter the results. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. That just seems nonsensical to me.

[Kizz Fastfists]

I'd bet money Ferguson wouldn't start on any NBA roster. If by game 3 Ferguson is still non-existent on the court, I hope as a fan that Donovan has the stones to make the right move.

The problem is the lack of brains. We disagree on rather or not Ferguson should be starting, but since we don't see what goes on in practice, etc we do not have all the information. However, Donovan has showed clearly over the years he lacks the brains to play his best players. His lack of stones would only come into play if he needed to bench Russ or PG for them not following an offensive design.

Just as a side note, Melo came off the bench for Houston tonight.

[bondom34]

I'd bet money Ferguson wouldn't start on any NBA roster. If by game 3 Ferguson is still non-existent on the court, I hope as a fan that Donovan has the stones to make the right move.

The problem is the lack of brains. We disagree on rather or not Ferguson should be starting, but since we don't see what goes on in practice, etc we do not have all the information. However, Donovan has showed clearly over the years he lacks the brains to play his best players. His lack of stones would only come into play if he needed to bench Russ or PG for them not following an offensive design.

Just as a side note, Melo came off the bench for Houston tonight.

He also played starters minutes. And was still the same Melo

[ThunderBolt]

I'd bet money Ferguson wouldn't start on any NBA roster. If by game 3 Ferguson is still non-existent on the court, I hope as a fan that Donovan has the stones to make the right move.

The problem is the lack of brains. We disagree on rather or not Ferguson should be starting, but since we don't see what goes on in practice, etc we do not have all the information. However, Donovan has showed clearly over the years he lacks the brains to play his best players. His lack of stones would only come into play if he needed to bench Russ or PG for them not following an offensive design.

Just as a side note, Melo came off the bench for Houston tonight.

He also played starters minutes. And was still the same Melo

When he got his first rebound and dropped an F bomb, I just felt a sense of peace.

[Old Man Game]

I'd bet money Ferguson wouldn't start on any NBA roster. If by game 3 Ferguson is still non-existent on the court, I hope as a fan that Donovan has the stones to make the right move.

The problem is the lack of brains. We disagree on rather or not Ferguson should be starting, but since we don't see what goes on in practice, etc we do not have all the information. However, Donovan has showed clearly over the years he lacks the brains to play his best players. His lack of stones would only come into play if he needed to bench Russ or PG for them not following an offensive design.

Just as a side note, Melo came off the bench for Houston tonight.

He also played starters minutes. And was still the same Melo

Our Dude Melo was a -20 tonight. Felt even better than I anticipated to see him in another team's uniform.

[bondom34]

The problem is the lack of brains. We disagree on rather or not Ferguson should be starting, but since we don't see what goes on in practice, etc we do not have all the information. However, Donovan has showed clearly over the years he lacks the brains to play his best players. His lack of stones would only come into play if he needed to bench Russ or PG for them not following an offensive design.

Just as a side note, Melo came off the bench for Houston tonight.

He also played starters minutes. And was still the same Melo

Our Dude Melo was a -20 tonight. Felt even better than I anticipated to see him in another team's uniform.

Think I said it in the other thread, but this was more than Houston gave up in a single game in regulation all last year.

[spearsy23]

Ariza > Harden

[Kizz Fastfists]

When he checked in and started guarding Thompson just standing next to him he passed the eye test even though he's only listed at 198 lbs. Considering the kid just turned 20 that potentially bodes well. Ferguson hasn't filled out his frame near as much to this point (listed at only 184).

In a couple years you could see Diallo at like 210 and rugged enough to defend most NBA wings.

They are both 20. Diallo is 2.5 months younger. Ferguson was the youngest player in the NBA last year. I believe they are both among the 25 youngest players this year. Both are extremely young for the NBA. Both have a lot of potential, but so did other players that have washed out of the NBA after their rookie deals. I'm warming up to Hami, although I do believe he has a lower ceiling than Ferguson. I like my Iguodala comparison for Hami and sticking to that with Iggy as his ceiling. If Hami were to become that level of player, which is basically fringe all-star, we would all be thrilled and it would have nothing to do with draft position.

I like Ferguson more. I liked Fergeson while he was still in high school and I'm not turning on the kid now. I also said when he was drafted that I didn't expect him to break out until his 3rd season. Part of that was because he was the youngest player in the draft and he was very raw when drafted. Hami is also still very raw and I've said that he should have stayed in a school another year to develop and improve his draft stock. I also have said Ferguson messed up by not sticking with his Arizona commitment and instead going to play pro ball in Australia.

Both players have their issues, but they are both 20 year old kids! As much as the hype for Hami got going I think everyone know he's got a long road to go. The real problem is that OKC is supposed to be fighting for a trip to the WCF and that will cause a lot of issues with people over reacting to what will be perceived as bad games. It isn't their fault that Russ had knee surgery and they are likely being forced into bigger action then they are ready for. Once Russ is back I expect Schroder to be the primary SG with Abrines and Felton eating up enough minutes that Ferguson and Hami don't get out there too much. The exception to that would be if Ferguson were to have some big shooting games, which he is capable of, and passing Abrines as the best shooter not on a max contract. You can argue Patterson, but I believe Abrines is the better shooter and I am specifically saying shooter and not player.