End the Donovan disaster

[Pillendreher]

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[Osirus89]

I looked at the list of all NBA teams.
The two teams that have fanbases that want their coach fired.
Washington and OKC
Oh God......

[Pillendreher]

I looked at the list of all NBA teams.
The two teams that have fanbases that want their coach fired.
Washington and OKC
Oh God......

RUSSELL WESTBROOK BROKE THEM BY BEING COMPLETELY UNCOACHABLE SOMEBODY MUST STOP HIM BEFORE HE RUINS A 3RD COACH SEND HELP PLS

[Old Man Game]

I never liked the Donovan hire in the first place. This hiring a college coach suddenly is en vogue because of Brad Stevens but there have been a lot more whiffs than home runs. Seemed like a dumb idea all along.

[slick_watts]

I looked at the list of all NBA teams.
The two teams that have fanbases that want their coach fired.
Washington and OKC
Oh God......

RUSSELL WESTBROOK BROKE THEM BY BEING COMPLETELY UNCOACHABLE SOMEBODY MUST STOP HIM BEFORE HE RUINS A 3RD COACH SEND HELP PLS

i await your actual reply in the main thread. there's no need to be emotional and catty about this. or passive aggressively exaggerate my claims.

[Pillendreher]

I looked at the list of all NBA teams.
The two teams that have fanbases that want their coach fired.
Washington and OKC
Oh God......

RUSSELL WESTBROOK BROKE THEM BY BEING COMPLETELY UNCOACHABLE SOMEBODY MUST STOP HIM BEFORE HE RUINS A 3RD COACH SEND HELP PLS

i await your actual reply in the main thread. there's no need to be emotional and catty about this. or passive aggressively exaggerate my claims.

This is no exaggeration on my part. Your reply to all of this has literally been that getting rid of Donovan would not change anything. What else am I supposed to such nonsense?

[slick_watts]

This is no exaggeration on my part. Your reply to all of this has literally been that getting rid of Donovan would not change anything. What else am I supposed to such nonsense?

not an exaggeration? then can you point to the post where i claim that russell westbrook has ruined scott brooks and billy donovan?

we can have an honest discussion. it's ok to disagree. it's not ok to behave how you are behaving. my thoughts on this subject are not esoteric, especially being that even the sunshine thunder beat writers share some of the same concerns.

[Pillendreher]

This is no exaggeration on my part. Your reply to all of this has literally been that getting rid of Donovan would not change anything. What else am I supposed to such nonsense?

not an exaggeration? then can you point to the post where i claim that russell westbrook has ruined scott brooks and billy donovan?

Of course you're not using those exact same words because you know what that would sound like. Instead you're hiding behind your "Russell Westbrook is uncoachable" take to justify not calling Brooks and Donovan for what they are: Bad coaches.

You yourself have said

"why fire him, what changes"

The only way that makes any sense is that Russell Westbrook is destroying every coach he's working with, dooming the whole thing before it even starts, making it impossible for said coach to actually coach. That's what you're arguing. At least own it.

[slick_watts]

Of course you're not using those exact same words because you know what that would sound like. Instead you're hiding behind your "Russell Westbrook is uncoachable" take to justify not calling Brooks and Donovan for what they are: Bad coaches.

russell westbrook being difficult to coach is a factor. that's all i was saying to begin with. i think there's a huge leap between that and what you're claiming i'm claiming. i'm not even saying donovan is not a bad coach. you sound paranoid.

The only way that makes any sense is that Russell Westbrook is destroying every coach he's working with, dooming the whole thing before it even starts.

no it doesn't. there's more than russell westbrook at play here, there is also sam presti. between westbrook being difficult to coach and sam presti designing and implementing a post-kd culture where the priorities swirl around making westbrook happy, what is exactly going to change if they hire someone different?

if billy donovan was fired i think sam would hire someone else very similar. sam's reluctance to hire a coach with a backbone and mind of their own is a factor just like russell westbrook's (and george's, too) "coachability". i find it impossible to imagine any coach coming into okc and making wholesale changes unless westbrook wants them. does westbrook want them?

[Pillendreher]

The only way that makes any sense is that Russell Westbrook is destroying every coach he's working with, dooming the whole thing before it even starts.

no it doesn't. there's more than russell westbrook at play here, there is also sam presti. between westbrook being difficult to coach and sam presti designing and implementing a post-kd culture where the priorities swirl around making westbrook happy, what is exactly going to change if they hire someone different?

if billy donovan was fired i think sam would hire someone else very similar. sam's reluctance to hire a coach with a backbone and mind of their own is a factor just like russell westbrook's (and george's, too) "coachability". i find it impossible to imagine any coach coming into okc and making wholesale changes unless westbrook wants them. does westbrook want them?

That's a different conversation, isn't it?

A) Russell Westbrook is not coachable

and

B) Sam Presti is not hiring somebody who is capable of righting the ship

are two different things (if you account for Presti wanting more control over the team than other GMs, which I think is the case with all this culture talk). And hell, I even agree with you on the 2nd one: He could fire Donovan and would probably just let Cheeks take over the rest of the season only to hire some nobody in the next offseason.

I'm telling you who would work though: Marc Jackson. We could save some money because he could do the prayers before the games and within a couple of weeks he would for a crusade on the rest of the league with the Peak responding "DEUS VULT". It would be one hell of a ride.
Oh, pardon my French.

[slick_watts]

That's a different conversation, isn't it?

A) Russell Westbrook is not coachable

and

B) Sam Presti is not hiring somebody who is capable of righting the ship

they are both factors. i think you are living in a fantasy world tbh where westbrook and george would be ok with someone stepping in and changing them both and the entire structure of how they operate. the list of coaches who could successfully do that is a small one imo, and the list of coaches who could do that which would also satisfy sam presti's parameters would be virtually non-existent.

like do you see sam firing donovan and putting in coach budenholzer? or svg? and either those guys managing our egos or yielding to sam presti? come on.

westbrook has low coachability because he wants to do things his way, and his desire to do this has been supported by the fanbase and org. to the max post-kd. he's not 23 years old anymore he's 30. now we have george involved who has expressed similar sentiments. this isn't really unique to westbrook or george, but they aren't exactly steph curry and klay thompson, are they?

[ThunderBolt]

Regardless of where anyone stands on this debate, is there really enough time to fix it before Westbrook’s decline becomes obvious to everyone? If we assume we hire the next popovich this offseason and russ and company buy in, how long until the main issue becomes russ’ athleticism is gone?

[Pillendreher]

Regardless of where anyone stands on this debate, is there really enough time to fix it before Westbrook’s decline becomes obvious to everyone? If we assume we hire the next popovich this offseason and russ and company buy in, how long until the main issue becomes russ’ athleticism is gone?

That's when Diallo will be ready to take over as the best player in the league.

[slick_watts]

Regardless of where anyone stands on this debate, is there really enough time to fix it before Westbrook’s decline becomes obvious to everyone? If we assume we hire the next popovich this offseason and russ and company buy in, how long until the main issue becomes russ’ athleticism is gone?

no.

[Pillendreher]

i think you are living in a fantasy world tbh where westbrook and george would be ok with someone stepping in and changing them both and the entire structure of how they operate.

See, this is what I mean. You're neglecting all the nuances that can be found in this discussion. No, you won't completely reprogram them. You can't "break" adults and then re-assemble them however you like. But that's not the point of this. You don't want to turn Westbrook, George and the rest of the bunch into players they are not. You simply want to use their strengths and and hide their weaknesses as best as possible.

like do you see sam firing donovan and putting in coach budenholzer? or svg? and either those guys managing our egos or yielding to sam presti? come on.

That depends on wha this franchise's goal is. If upper management is content with not being relevant most of the year and not winning anything, then I doubt it. But if they actually want to see a return for their sizeable investment, they might hire somebody competent, yes. At some point you just have to expect that they will stop wasting Westbrook's prime with these sort of interchangeable fools who don't belong in the NBA, no?

westbrook has low coachability because he wants to do things his way, and his desire to do this has been supported by the fanbase and org. to the max post-kd. he's not 23 years old anymore he's 30. now we have george involved who has expressed similar sentiments. this isn't really unique to westbrook or george, but they aren't exactly steph curry and klay thompson, are they?

And the solution to this character trait you're describing is to just roll over and not even try to get better? Of course they want to do things their way. Everybody wants that. The question is what kind of environment are you putting somebody in. Westbrook cna do his thing. That doesn't mean that there can be no structure around him. I'd wager he'd be better at doing "his thing" when his teammates know what to do and how to maximize what he does.
Curry is doing his thing. Durant is doing his thing. Butler is doing his thing. Davis doing his thing. Giannis is doing his thing. Every great player is doing things "his way"; that's what makes them great. Yet that doesn't lead to all of their teams looking like the result of a NBA 2K match where the animations get buggy and nothing happens until somebody launches a contested jumper.

[slick_watts]

You simply want to use their strengths and and hide their weaknesses as best as possible.

ideally? of course. but that's not the way the team operates, and the reason it does not operate that way extends beyond the choice of coach. the choice of coach actually appears to be informed by the team's desire to operate this way. sam had an opportunity to choose a coach with a lot of experience who would optimize the use of the roster. why didn't he? why didn't he even interview anyone?

But if they actually want to see a return for their sizeable investment, they might hire somebody competent, yes. At some point you just have to expect that they will stop wasting Westbrook's prime with these sort of interchangeable fools who don't belong in the NBA, no?

the thunder charge top five ticket prices in the media market with the lowest costs in the nba. they are getting a decent return on their investment-- otherwise they would not be throwing $70 million in tax at a roster with hardly any chance of winning a championship.

my original beef with you on this is that donovan is somehow incompetent. a premise that seems ridiculous to me considering his reputation among his peers. there's more at work here and scapegoating him into oblivion won't change anything unless sam presti and russell westbrook also desire that change, because they factor into it as well.

Curry is doing his thing. Durant is doing his thing. Butler is doing his thing. Davis doing his thing. Giannis is doing his thing. Every great player is doing things "his way"; that's what makes them great. Yet that doesn't lead to all of their teams looking like the result of a NBA 2K match where the animations get buggy and nothing happens until somebody launches a contested jumper.

the thunder made a wcf in 2015-16, beat a 10+ srs spurs team and narrowly lost to another 10+ srs warriors team. i don't believe donovan has anything to do with that, but lets not pretend that the thunder have not had success doing things this way. more success than any of those other players have had save the warriors.

everyone wants to be like lebron and run their team and whatnot. but there's only one lebron. someone has to convince westbrook and george that their chances of winning will go up if they cooperate with the staff and submit to optimization processes. i don't think they would be willing. and i think these are valid concerns.

[spearsy23]

I still don't understand why fire Brooks if Brooks was exactly the coach Presti wanted. The given reasons don't have any real backing, which makes it seem more like Donovan either has failed at what he was supposed to build or the parameters changed when Durant left. The problem with the latter is that nothing changed with Durant here either.

[slick_watts]

I still don't understand why fire Brooks if Brooks was exactly the coach Presti wanted. The given reasons don't have any real backing, which makes it seem more like Donovan either has failed at what he was supposed to build or the parameters changed when Durant left. The problem with the latter is that nothing changed with Durant here either.

i have it on good authority that brooks' handling of the reggie jackson situation played a major role in his firing.

[bondom34]

TBH from what I saw the guy should have been given a promotion for that.

[spearsy23]

I still don't understand why fire Brooks if Brooks was exactly the coach Presti wanted. The given reasons don't have any real backing, which makes it seem more like Donovan either has failed at what he was supposed to build or the parameters changed when Durant left. The problem with the latter is that nothing changed with Durant here either.

i have it on good authority that brooks' handling of the reggie jackson situation played a major role in his firing.

What exactly does that mean? What was brooks's role in the drama?