GT #4: Nets @ Cavs - Wed, Oct 24, 7:00pm ET

[Prokorov]

You said they don't need him because they already had Joe when clearly getting him made the team better giving the team another outside threat. One starts the other comes off the bench last year it was Joe backing up Crabbe both players are inter changeable they do the same things like you brought out.

If we needed another shooter we could have got one alot cheaper... the entire point was your paying crabbe 19 million when guys who do what he does cost 1/4 of that. for example we could have brought in ellington instead.

What exactly did crabbe help us do? we won 28 games... what do we win without him? 25?

Crabbe, Johnson, Porter were all lottery tickets. We had no other means of acquiring talent any time soon, so we made some overpay gambles to try to acquire serviceable talent with upside by any means possible. The hope was that these younger guys could develop into players deserving of those contracts. Thus far, none have panned out, but none have hindered us in any significant way yet. If FAs commit to us in the offseason, and we have to trade a pick to dump Crabbe, then the move became negative. Until that happens, other than costing Prokhorov more than he should have, the Crabbe trade hasn't moved the needle positively or negatively.

More like scratch tickets then lottery tickets, as the upside was always low even if they paid off.

Agree crabbe isnt super likely to hinder us, but we will need to manuever him in the event FAs want our cap space. Porter on the other hand 100% would have hindered us... he would have 3 years left at 28 million preventing us from having even 1 max slot.

its not the end of the world, and still misses the point a bit. your getting the same from harris for fractions of the cost, and could have gotten the same from ellington if you felt you needed even more shooting. Also stauskus we let go but he would have been cheaper as well.

its moot. im long done with arguing, i only really responded because people called me out inaccurately

[jbeachboy]

who can we get to replace crabbe in offseason?

[kamaze]

If you are talking about just these first 4 games then obvuously its Harris. But March/April Crabbe is the best we have ever seen from either player. Too early for me to call it for Harris just yet.

Crabbe was hurt it's unfair to judge both off of these 4 games. I'm a fan of the player with the 33 point game and the most threes in a season that would be Allen Crabbe but they play together the goal is to win it's not about who's better.

Joe Harris is more efficient, better off the ball, a better finisher, and makes 10 million dollars less.

This isn't about 4 games. This is their entire body of work as Nets players. Harris is more consistent than Crabbe and frankly has earned his starting job.

I admit Harris is better but it seems like everyone here thinks Crabbe should be making what Harris does which isn't the case. Crabbe was atop the league in 3 point shooting when the Nets offered him that contract that's why they offered it to him. Portland matched but a year later they had cap isssues and Marks said I'll take that Crabbe contract just take back this bad contract (Nicholson) and give us a 2nd rounder. Joe Harris came back on a bargain deal he's not the norm.

Do you guys think it's possible to sign someone else as good as Joe for as little as he makes? His contract is an exception not the norm if you want talent you have to pay for it.

[kamaze]

I can't give Russell enough credit for the game he played tonight. That is the guy we've been waiting to see.

Russell played really well overall... but still has to shake some of the bad habits... he was 5-14 from the field and I cant help but wonder if that becomes 7-14 or 8-14 if he cut out those off balance fade away 1 leg jumpers.... that YOLO type stuff. get your feet set and under you and take a balanced shot.

really the 2 things holding russell back from taking a big step forward:

. Shooting percentages
- turnovers

and i think you can really make progress there by

-cutting out these needless 1 leg off balance jumpers
-cut down these reckless 1 handed passes

Agreed on all fronts. He also missed some easy chippy lay ups. He's got to get better at finish at the rim.

Overall though, he played a very clean game and made people around him better.

DLo has to continue to work on the layups to get better at them other than that he played a good game I was impressed after he missed on offense how he put pressure on defense and forced a turnover.

[kamaze]

Slow down bro...


1) I said from DAY ONE that my issue with the contract offer/trade for Crabbe was an issue with Sean Marks, and not an issue with Allen Crabbe. I always thought Crabbe was a great fit for what we do. My issue was that you cant be giving role players 19 million a year... and that we already had Joe Harris who could do 99% of what crabbe does for 18 million less dollars. So please stop with this "I polluted people with Crabbe". My only thing I said about Crabbe was that it was not realistic that he would come here and score 15+ ppg without seeing a huge dip in efficiency.

Many here had him scoring 15-18 ppg while still being an elite shooter. I said that was not going to happen and backed up what I was saying by pointing out that the majority of his threes came open or on stand still catch and shoot situations. and that taking more off the dribble, taking more in general, and taking more moving off screens was sure to bring his percentages down. which it did.

2) It was not hard to predict that Joe Harris would improve. As I pointed out at the time, his background, age, height, combined results, and first 2 years of his career were IDENTICAL to crabbes. his college career was nearly the same... same height/weight/verticle. His first 2 years mirrored crabbes first 2 years. While Harris may have imrpoved even more then we thought, it should have surprised no one that he became a 10-12 ppg player on 40% from three.

I predicted this, but it wasnt really some long shot that Harris would match what we had been seeing from crabbe and even if he fell a bit short of it he was making 18 million dollars less.

3) I have not hated on Allen Crabbe for 1 second of his career in a Net unifrom. check every game thread from last year. Often times i defended him when he went into slumps. Im a fan of Allen Crabbe the player. works hard, doesnt step outside his role, improved quite a bit defensively. sticks his nose in for rebounds. It isnt Allen Crabbe's fault he makes 19 million and its not his fault Marks traded for him or got him that money.

So please, lets stop with this fake news that i tried to poison people on crabbe or that its some miraculous revelation that Crabbe's numbers dipped while Harris continues a similar career arc to crabbes in his 3rd season. Because i literally gave you paragraphs of data, stats, comparisons, and analysis of why this was all likely to happen.

You said they don't need him because they already had Joe when clearly getting him made the team better giving the team another outside threat. One starts the other comes off the bench last year it was Joe backing up Crabbe both players are inter changeable they do the same things like you brought out.

If we needed another shooter we could have got one alot cheaper... the entire point was your paying crabbe 19 million when guys who do what he does cost 1/4 of that. for example we could have brought in ellington instead.

What exactly did crabbe help us do? we won 28 games... what do we win without him? 25?

We had Ellington the year before I believe and he was garbage and so was Sauce last year.

[kamaze]

Jeremy Lin and Dlo were supposed to be the backcourt but he was out for the season after getting hurt the first game...
The refs screwed them over all year long and even admitted so there was more reasons why they were only 3 games better.

Through Wednesday, Brooklyn had seen more blown foul calls than any other club this season, according to our analysis of The Pudding’s compilation of the NBA’s “Last Two Minute” reports. In those, the league evaluates the accuracy of calls and non-calls made by officials at the end of close games.2

To get a sense of the sorts of plays that have hurt the Nets, watch the clips below, which highlight several sequences that the league later determined should have drawn whistles in Brooklyn’s favor. One involves Nets swingman Allen Crabbe, who managed to score a tough bucket despite being bumped by one defender and being fallen upon by another at the conclusion of the play. Two other examples show forward DeMarre Carroll being bumped or swiped across the arm while trying to get a shot off during the last 20 seconds of play. After many of the plays, you can see Brooklyn players turn to officials in disbelief over the fact that no foul was called.

There are a handful of interesting takeaways from this data. For starters, it seems to provide evidence to support comments made by Brooklyn guard Spencer Dinwiddie in January suggesting that this young Nets team gets less respect from officials than other clubs.

Full story https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/which-nba-team-is-wronged-by-the-refs-the-most/

[MrDollarBills]

Crabbe was hurt it's unfair to judge both off of these 4 games. I'm a fan of the player with the 33 point game and the most threes in a season that would be Allen Crabbe but they play together the goal is to win it's not about who's better.

Joe Harris is more efficient, better off the ball, a better finisher, and makes 10 million dollars less.

This isn't about 4 games. This is their entire body of work as Nets players. Harris is more consistent than Crabbe and frankly has earned his starting job.

I admit Harris is better but it seems like everyone here thinks Crabbe should be making what Harris does which isn't the case. Crabbe was atop the league in 3 point shooting when the Nets offered him that contract that's why they offered it to him. Portland matched but a year later they had cap isssues and Marks said I'll take that Crabbe contract just take back this bad contract (Nicholson) and give us a 2nd rounder. Joe Harris came back on a bargain deal he's not the norm.

Do you guys think it's possible to sign someone else as good as Joe for as little as he makes? His contract is an exception not the norm if you want talent you have to pay for it.

Lets be clear I have no beef with Allen Crabbe. Zero. I'm just stating that he's not shown me anything that leads me to believe that he's better than Harris.

[MrDollarBills]

Russell played really well overall... but still has to shake some of the bad habits... he was 5-14 from the field and I cant help but wonder if that becomes 7-14 or 8-14 if he cut out those off balance fade away 1 leg jumpers.... that YOLO type stuff. get your feet set and under you and take a balanced shot.

really the 2 things holding russell back from taking a big step forward:

. Shooting percentages
- turnovers

and i think you can really make progress there by

-cutting out these needless 1 leg off balance jumpers
-cut down these reckless 1 handed passes

Agreed on all fronts. He also missed some easy chippy lay ups. He's got to get better at finish at the rim.

Overall though, he played a very clean game and made people around him better.

DLo has to continue to work on the layups to get better at them other than that he played a good game I was impressed after he missed on offense how he put pressure on defense and forced a turnover.

Yeah I really can't understand how he missed those bunnies at the rim but otherwise he was solid on both ends. he also was a leader on the floor and kept his cool the entire game.

[LKIRNets]

Fronting Love is so unnecessary. He's done nothing in the post. Fronting him causes so many more problems.

Love has led the NBA in post scoring 3 of the last 5 seasons and is among the leaders every year. he is a threat down low

do they know by fronting him you also disrupt his shooting, passing and ability to player screen.

[MGrand15]

Fronting Love is so unnecessary. He's done nothing in the post. Fronting him causes so many more problems.

Love has led the NBA in post scoring 3 of the last 5 seasons and is among the leaders every year. he is a threat down low

do they know by fronting him you also disrupt his shooting, passing and ability to player screen.

I hate when you guys fill up my notifications with nonsense. Kenny called a TO and adjusted the defense right after I made that post. The Cavs weren't scoring at all. Fronting him gives them an easy path to points either through high-lows or offensive rebounds or because Dudley can't rotate.

[Keith Van Horn]

What I want to see more than anything this year is for us to win the games we're supposed to win.

Detroit, we should've won... NYK we took care of business... Indy, we got smacked and rightfully so.

We should win in Cleveland. Excited to watch this one tomorrow night! Hope to see Rondae get some decent minutes too and what kind of impact he's going to have.

what makes you say we "should" be the cavs on the road? or the pistons on the road?

If we lose this will be the game that either snaps people back to reality from early season over-optomism and playoff dreams or has them completely kill kenny atkinson for not leading us to wins because they have unrealistic expectations

im calling this the scapegoat game... its gonna be Kenny or Dlo

sorry I'm late on this

More about us than "them", this is year to me is a year where we've GOT TO set a standard for ourselves. We need to beat certain teams... Teams that are rebuilding, or lack identity, or have that weird mixture of players that seem to click only once every so often. I know we won't beat GS, Houston, Boston, Toronto and so forth this year, but we need to show that progress. We've seen development, we've seen the preaching of culture, etc etc. It's time to beat those teams. To me, Detroit and Cleveland fall in those categories. That's how I view things and my hope of how things go.