Gordon Hayward Thread

[OldCeltics]

I loved Hayward signing but he is 1. Very out of shape. 2. Missing shots 3. Very passive.

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He is starting to look a little better. Just a bit more explosiveness. I like him off the bench. THis is going to be a 2-year thing.

Watch him in March. He's going to be explosive.

I hope you're right.

Did you notice him limping and being extra careful with the foot he broke? Could it be some ongoing discomfort?

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[Fencer reregistered]

Yeah, I liked the starting 5 yesterday. We need to keep it this way for now...

Also the second unit of Rozier, Brown, Hayward and Baynes is a nice mix...you have a playmaker in Gordon, who can also score, you have couple of defenders and Rozier can also play as a scorer and not a playmaker on that second unit...

My ideal starting line-up is:

Horford
Tatum
Smart
Irving
Flex: Whichever of Brown, Baynes, Morris or even somebody else Brad thinks makes the most sense in that particular matchup.

Then:

Rozier = Irving's backup. He's our other SG in a PG's body who can actually distribute the ball well if he keeps it simple.
Hayward = Smart's backup. He's our other guy who's actually a better distributor than our PG-sized guys.
Baynes/Theis/Williams = Horford's backup. They're our other guys who can defend the classical center position.
Tatum and "Flex" are backed up by a committee of the whole.

[Andrew McCeltic]

His steal and breakaway dunk last night were a good sign - even if he did it at 2/3rds athleticism and looked like a much older player, he had enough juice left to get a steal and dunk.

Realized Old Man Hayward reminds me right now of Goran Dragic - plodding, not explosive, but still able to twist and turn with the ball, very smart, sharp passing. Would be interesting to experiment with him as a backup point guard.

[JHTruth]

I loved Hayward signing but he is 1. Very out of shape. 2. Missing shots 3. Very passive.

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He is starting to look a little better. Just a bit more explosiveness. I like him off the bench. THis is going to be a 2-year thing.

Watch him in March. He's going to be explosive.

I think we won't see much from Hayward until next season tbh. He just doesn't have it right now. He's literally the definition of slightly above average.

[OldCeltics]

I loved Hayward signing but he is 1. Very out of shape. 2. Missing shots 3. Very passive.

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He is starting to look a little better. Just a bit more explosiveness. I like him off the bench. THis is going to be a 2-year thing.

Watch him in March. He's going to be explosive.

I think we won't see much from Hayward until next season tbh. He just doesn't have it right now. He's literally the definition of slightly above average.

Actually right now he's average role player. Only his playmaking is above average.

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[Upperclass]

He honestly should only be playing in blowouts

[JHTruth]

He is starting to look a little better. Just a bit more explosiveness. I like him off the bench. THis is going to be a 2-year thing.

Watch him in March. He's going to be explosive.

I think we won't see much from Hayward until next season tbh. He just doesn't have it right now. He's literally the definition of slightly above average.

Actually right now he's average role player. Only his playmaking is above average.

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Yeah a WS/48 of .111 and PER of 13.8, TS% .509. You have to go back to his rookie year to see numbers that low. The only reason he's on the floor is D right now honestly.

He is not going to be a factor...

[GuyClinch]

Unfortunately if you watch Gordon carefully he just jogs up and down the court most of the time. He doesn't not run full out. Even Kelly O would run. Sad.

He needs to move down the depth chart until he can give full effort.

[jfs1000d]

I think we won't see much from Hayward until next season tbh. He just doesn't have it right now. He's literally the definition of slightly above average.

Actually right now he's average role player. Only his playmaking is above average.

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Yeah a WS/48 of .111 and PER of 13.8, TS% .509. You have to go back to his rookie year to see numbers that low. The only reason he's on the floor is D right now honestly.

He is not going to be a factor...

He's better than those numbers, and will be better. You play him because he you believe he is better than what he's been. You have to play him.

[OldCeltics]

Actually right now he's average role player. Only his playmaking is above average.

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Yeah a WS/48 of .111 and PER of 13.8, TS% .509. You have to go back to his rookie year to see numbers that low. The only reason he's on the floor is D right now honestly.

He is not going to be a factor...

He's better than those numbers, and will be better. You play him because he you believe he is better than what he's been. You have to play him.

60 million for role player is annoying. But let's give him more time to get back from injury.

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[JHTruth]

Actually right now he's average role player. Only his playmaking is above average.

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Yeah a WS/48 of .111 and PER of 13.8, TS% .509. You have to go back to his rookie year to see numbers that low. The only reason he's on the floor is D right now honestly.

He is not going to be a factor...

He's better than those numbers, and will be better. You play him because he you believe he is better than what he's been. You have to play him.

Of course he's going to play. The point is don't expect him to be a major factor this year at all really. His numbers haven't improved hardly at all since Game 1

[cloverleaf]

Hayward shooting efficiency has improved from October to November:

October TS% .481
November TS% .523




it Value G GS MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% TS% USG% ORtg DRtg +/- MP PTS TRB AST
Month October 6 6 147 24 59 8 22 5 10 5 32 10 7 0 9 10 61 .407 .364 .500 .481 21.0 90 95 0.0 24.5 10.2 5.3 1.7
November 13 9 361 44 111 13 50 29 30 14 71 51 17 6 18 19 130 .396 .260 .967 .523 17.1 111 106 +4.9 27.8 10.0 5.5 3.9

[tfribs45]

he may never be the same player again. That being said it's not fair to drag an entire team down to try and help a player get back into the groove. Hayward needs to come off the bench and should be #8 or #9 in our rotation. Interesting to see who pays the price down the road when rotations begin to shorten. This team needs chemistry, way too many lineups going on.

[K For Three]

Is coming to grips in real time that Hayward won't be Hayward entirely until next season, if ever. I knew it would take time. I didn't know it would impact the team like it has. Literally, every player for 20 games seemed to want to keep Gordon involved. And it's not Gordon's fault. What a **** injury. And it's not like he came back to a lottery Pacers team like PG13...he came back to a deep, talented team with finals aspirations. And his coach was his college coach and they did special collegiate things together.
But this is the NBA. And after 20 games I think Brad and this team finally realize that Hayward will step up when he steps up. For now they need to roll with what makes them great. Hayward will chip in, but this is a Kyrie, Tatum team. Hayward and Horford will be there too but Marcus and Marcus are the balancing acts that need to start in order to keep things balanced. This team has talent at every angle ..Brad's biggest obstacle thus far has been figuring out how to piece it all together. Not everyone is going to be thrilled....but I think he figured it out with starting Marcus and Marcus. Those guys bring toughness. That first unit won't ever sleep now.
And their bench can be by far the best bench with Rozier, Brown, Hayward and Baynes.

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I actually don't mind his role now, I think he and the Celtics have accepted he is a ways off and he can still help the team in many ways doing the little things on the court without being one of the main guys. When it felt like Gordon was being forced in there as a starter I think it might have been a mistake, he likely and sadly probably would have been best off coming off the bench to start the year to begin with since he never looked very confident.

We'll see how he looks in a few more months though.

I have to disagree though that this is just a Kyrie/Tatum team. Arguably yeah those are our two best players talent wise and you would like to see one get hot scoring or both in any given game. But I think when everyone just learns their damn role......after Irving who gets the most shots, it's pretty open at times. Marcus and Marcus and like you said Al too are key players. Terry might even have more good scoring games coming if he can keep hitting more shots/gain confidence again.

The only one I am not always sure I think can fit is Jaylen Brown but we'll see how this develops. He had a few decent scoring games before getting hurt but I am still not sold he is going to have the sort of role on this team he would like.

[return2glory]

Why are people saying he should come off the bench when he is not starting anymore?

Hayward will be the player he once was, it’s just going to take time as long as he doesn’t have a setback.

IMO, Hayward is about 40% of the player he was. He should hopefully get back to about 70-80% of his old self in a few months and then make progress from there next year.

But yes, he should have been brought back slower and should have come off the bench from the start of the season and work his way back in.

Hayward and Brown have hurt this team the most. Neither one of them should be starting. Been saying that for over 2 weeks now. Hayward is coming off the bench now, hopefully Brown will follow once he comes back.

[radcot]

Hayward is clearly not himself yet physically or shooting, but I think he's been more effective overall than a lot of folks are giving him credit for. His plus/minus season total is 3rd on the team (+39) after Tatum (+90) and Irving (+68). And, yes, I know all the arguments against using +/-, but the larger the sample size, the more meaningful it becomes. By the way, last on the team: Jaylen Brown (-23, the only player with meaningful minutes who's a net negative).

[SichtingLives]

When people were adamant Hayward would be back and contributing by the playoffs last year I maintained all along that we should be thrilled if he were 100% healthy by the start of this season. Now that he's right where he was projected to be, there are a slew of these "he'll never recover" takes and the like. It all speaks to the common impatience of the fan and particularly Boston fan. It's a 15-18 month recovery. It was always going to be this way. If he doesn't look any different in 3 months than he does today, there will be cause for concern. He has made progress this season but it is incremental and doesn't necessarily appear in results.

I agree that his body isn't likely to be right until next season, which means he isn't likely to be rising up to dunk over anyone or finishing great around the basket this year. He was spending the offseason getting his leg back into gear and when he has a full offseason with a healthy leg he'll be able to get back to a traditional s&t regimen. In the meantime, he's a smart enough player to adjust to what he has to work with and make himself effective for what the team needs. I guarantee he is a much more useful and valuable player by the playoffs even if it's not "all-star" Gordon Hayward.

[JHTruth]

Hayward is clearly not himself yet physically or shooting, but I think he's been more effective overall than a lot of folks are giving him credit for. His plus/minus season total is 3rd on the team (+39) after Tatum (+90) and Irving (+68). And, yes, I know all the arguments against using +/-, but the larger the sample size, the more meaningful it becomes. By the way, last on the team: Jaylen Brown (-23, the only player with meaningful minutes who's a net negative).

Jaylen had a horrific start which created a hole he will probably not climb out of statswise. But he's played much better as of late

[cloverleaf]

Hayward is clearly not himself yet physically or shooting, but I think he's been more effective overall than a lot of folks are giving him credit for. His plus/minus season total is 3rd on the team (+39) after Tatum (+90) and Irving (+68). And, yes, I know all the arguments against using +/-, but the larger the sample size, the more meaningful it becomes. By the way, last on the team: Jaylen Brown (-23, the only player with meaningful minutes who's a net negative).

Jaylen had a horrific start which created a hole he will probably not climb out of statswise. But he's played much better as of late

Still not hitting the 3 or FTs.

[JHTruth]

Hayward is clearly not himself yet physically or shooting, but I think he's been more effective overall than a lot of folks are giving him credit for. His plus/minus season total is 3rd on the team (+39) after Tatum (+90) and Irving (+68). And, yes, I know all the arguments against using +/-, but the larger the sample size, the more meaningful it becomes. By the way, last on the team: Jaylen Brown (-23, the only player with meaningful minutes who's a net negative).

Jaylen had a horrific start which created a hole he will probably not climb out of statswise. But he's played much better as of late

Still not hitting the 3 or FTs.

FTs are getting better and the 3s will come. He's too talented to stay down for too long.