Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

[nate33]

Did any of you Wall-haters watch last night's game? The only offense that was working down the stretch was Wall taking everyone off the dribble. He tried a couple of possessions to give it up, but Markieff and Brad both missed open shots. Why is trading Wall the panacea? PGs drive teams, not SGs. Wall is an elite PG. OK, he doesn't have great jumper, but neither does Westbrook, and OKC is thriving without a SG. If a trade must be made (and I'm not sure it does), then I'd like to see Beal shipped out. It is far easier to replace a SG than it is to replace a top PG. Just ask San Antonio, which has an elite SG, but no PG (with Murray out).

I hope all of our potential trade partners watched the game too. And I hope they are thinking what you are thinking.

Also, it's not far easier to replace a PG than a SG. These days, the PG position is really deep. One of the reasons that Beal is so coveted by teams is that there are very few really good, versatile SG's who can create on and off the ball while also playing good D.

[WallToWall]

Did any of you Wall-haters watch last night's game? The only offense that was working down the stretch was Wall taking everyone off the dribble. He tried a couple of possessions to give it up, but Markieff and Brad both missed open shots. Why is trading Wall the panacea? PGs drive teams, not SGs. Wall is an elite PG. OK, he doesn't have great jumper, but neither does Westbrook, and OKC is thriving without a SG. If a trade must be made (and I'm not sure it does), then I'd like to see Beal shipped out. It is far easier to replace a SG than it is to replace a top PG. Just ask San Antonio, which has an elite SG, but no PG (with Murray out).

A trade needs to be made. We cant win a championship (I'm assuming that is your goal too) with this crew. I'm not trying to water down Wall's contributions, as he is a very good player, and I am a big fan of his, but his type of game does not fit this team, and he is the oldest of the trio that we have that can return some value in trade. If we are to reset, he is the likeliest of candidates that should go.

[FAH1223]

This appeared on ESPN this AM

Spurs get: John Wall

Wizards get: Pau Gasol, Dejounte Murray and Lonnie Walker IV

Marc J. Spears: Who could revive Wall as one of the elite NBA point guards? How about Gregg Popovich, who coached Wall on Team USA?

The Spurs are a player away from being scary again, so imagine a lineup with Wall and fellow All-Stars DeMar DeRozan and LaMarcus Aldridge. Behind the Warriors, the West still looks wide-open right now. Plus, a small-market San Antonio team would be locking in a star backcourt long term.

On top of moving on from Wall's contract, the Wizards would surround Bradley Beal with a point guard of the future in Murray (once he gets healthy) and another young talent in Walker, a 2018 first-round pick. Gasol would be included for financial reasons and to add some veteran leadership to Washington's locker room.

I would LEAP at this.

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[payitforward]

Did any of you Wall-haters watch last night's game? The only offense that was working down the stretch was Wall taking everyone off the dribble. He tried a couple of possessions to give it up, but Markieff and Brad both missed open shots. Why is trading Wall the panacea? PGs drive teams, not SGs. Wall is an elite PG. OK, he doesn't have great jumper, but neither does Westbrook, and OKC is thriving without a SG. If a trade must be made (and I'm not sure it does), then I'd like to see Beal shipped out. It is far easier to replace a SG than it is to replace a top PG. Just ask San Antonio, which has an elite SG, but no PG (with Murray out).

If you hadn't used the phrase "Wall-haters," I'm not sure I'd bother to respond to this post, but... you did. There are no "Wall haters" here to my knowledge, & John had a very good game last night -- a good thing. Still...

1. We're 11-17, & you're not sure a trade needs to be done.
2. John had a good game last night. So... decisions about him should be made on the basis of that game, right? That's what you think?
3. John is "an elite PG." What's that mean? Do you mean he was one "last night?" Do you mean he's in the top 5 PGs in the league year in & year out?
4. OKC is thriving without a SG, so that means that if we trade Beal we will get better? How much better than 11-17 will we be?
5. Westbrook doesn't have a great jump shot but is a great PG. That means that b/c John doesn't have a great jump shot, he must be an elite PG?
6. Have you looked at our salary load for the next few years? Is John Wall worth $40m a year?

[nate33]

This appeared on ESPN this AM

Spurs get: John Wall

Wizards get: Pau Gasol, Dejounte Murray and Lonnie Walker IV

Marc J. Spears: Who could revive Wall as one of the elite NBA point guards? How about Gregg Popovich, who coached Wall on Team USA?

The Spurs are a player away from being scary again, so imagine a lineup with Wall and fellow All-Stars DeMar DeRozan and LaMarcus Aldridge. Behind the Warriors, the West still looks wide-open right now. Plus, a small-market San Antonio team would be locking in a star backcourt long term.

On top of moving on from Wall's contract, the Wizards would surround Bradley Beal with a point guard of the future in Murray (once he gets healthy) and another young talent in Walker, a 2018 first-round pick. Gasol would be included for financial reasons and to add some veteran leadership to Washington's locker room.

I would LEAP at this.

That actually makes pretty good sense for San Antonio. Aldridge's midrange game would complement Wall nicely. And if they can just infuse Wall with that San Antonio Spurs juju and get him to be more disciplined, Wall could be elite. It's not like they're going to have many opportunities to add star caliber talent to their core, given the fact that the contracts of Aldridge, DeRozan and Mills are on the books through 2021.

[Wiz99]

This appeared on ESPN this AM

Spurs get: John Wall

Wizards get: Pau Gasol, Dejounte Murray and Lonnie Walker IV

Marc J. Spears: Who could revive Wall as one of the elite NBA point guards? How about Gregg Popovich, who coached Wall on Team USA?

The Spurs are a player away from being scary again, so imagine a lineup with Wall and fellow All-Stars DeMar DeRozan and LaMarcus Aldridge. Behind the Warriors, the West still looks wide-open right now. Plus, a small-market San Antonio team would be locking in a star backcourt long term.

On top of moving on from Wall's contract, the Wizards would surround Bradley Beal with a point guard of the future in Murray (once he gets healthy) and another young talent in Walker, a 2018 first-round pick. Gasol would be included for financial reasons and to add some veteran leadership to Washington's locker room.

I would LEAP at this.

That actually makes pretty good sense for San Antonio. Aldridge's midrange game would complement Wall nicely. And if they can just infuse Wall with that San Antonio Spurs juju and get him to be more disciplined, Wall could be elite. It's not like they're going to have many opportunities to add star caliber talent to their core, given the fact that the contracts of Aldridge, DeRozan and Mills are on the books through 2021.

All good points. I’m worried Pop will steer Spurs management away from John. Can’t imagine Wall’s his first choice of talent he’d like to coach.

But for the Wiz I’d love to get our hands on Murray. Spurs were really high on him, particularly his D, prior to the season.

[Wizardspride]

This appeared on ESPN this AM



I would LEAP at this.

That actually makes pretty good sense for San Antonio. Aldridge's midrange game would complement Wall nicely. And if they can just infuse Wall with that San Antonio Spurs juju and get him to be more disciplined, Wall could be elite. It's not like they're going to have many opportunities to add star caliber talent to their core, given the fact that the contracts of Aldridge, DeRozan and Mills are on the books through 2021.

All good points. I’m worried Pop will steer Spurs management away from John. Can’t imagine Wall’s his first choice of talent he’d like to coach.

But for the Wiz I’d love to get our hands on Murray. Spurs were really high on him, particularly his D, prior to the season.

Actually, Pop loves Wall.

[nate33]

This appeared on ESPN this AM



I would LEAP at this.

That actually makes pretty good sense for San Antonio. Aldridge's midrange game would complement Wall nicely. And if they can just infuse Wall with that San Antonio Spurs juju and get him to be more disciplined, Wall could be elite. It's not like they're going to have many opportunities to add star caliber talent to their core, given the fact that the contracts of Aldridge, DeRozan and Mills are on the books through 2021.

All good points. I’m worried Pop will steer Spurs management away from John. Can’t imagine Wall’s his first choice of talent he’d like to coach.

But for the Wiz I’d love to get our hands on Murray. Spurs were really high on him, particularly his D, prior to the season.

If the cost is too high for San Antonio, a tweak of the trade could be that they keep Murray and ship Mills to us in his place. To make the salaries match, we would send Mahinmi their way.

It's certainly less interesting for us, but it would be a way to painlessly dump Wall's contract. We save $5M instantly and turn Mahinmi's final year of $15.4M into 2 years of Patty Mills at $12.4 and $13.2M.

So it would be:
Washington trades: Wall, Mahinmi
San Antonio trades: Gasol, Mills, Lonnie Walker

[Illmatic12]

This appeared on ESPN this AM



I would LEAP at this.

That actually makes pretty good sense for San Antonio. Aldridge's midrange game would complement Wall nicely. And if they can just infuse Wall with that San Antonio Spurs juju and get him to be more disciplined, Wall could be elite. It's not like they're going to have many opportunities to add star caliber talent to their core, given the fact that the contracts of Aldridge, DeRozan and Mills are on the books through 2021.

All good points. I’m worried Pop will steer Spurs management away from John. Can’t imagine Wall’s his first choice of talent he’d like to coach.

But for the Wiz I’d love to get our hands on Murray. Spurs were really high on him, particularly his D, prior to the season.

Popovich always raves about John from their interactions at Team USA, he is a big fan.
That would be a great coach + PG pairing.

I've always felt that Wall's career will be wasted (to an extent) if he never gets to play with an intellectual coach. He has that CP3/Rondo type personality, he really thinks about the Xs and Os of basketball and needs a smart coach on his level who will intellectually engage him. All the "rah rah" type stuff doesn't really work with him anymore and he seems bored with Brooks coaching. It's like the smart student who's being placed in a lower level class so they get bored and start picking up bad habits from the other kids.

I never thought I'd come to this point, but my current wish for the Wizards is for Wall to be traded to a better situation while he still has prime years left, so that he can fulfill his potential as what SHOULD BE a Hall of Fame career . It's just tough to see him whiling away his career in DC in a situation that has been holding him back from day 1.

[payitforward]

That actually makes pretty good sense for San Antonio. Aldridge's midrange game would complement Wall nicely. And if they can just infuse Wall with that San Antonio Spurs juju and get him to be more disciplined, Wall could be elite. It's not like they're going to have many opportunities to add star caliber talent to their core, given the fact that the contracts of Aldridge, DeRozan and Mills are on the books through 2021.

All good points. I’m worried Pop will steer Spurs management away from John. Can’t imagine Wall’s his first choice of talent he’d like to coach.

But for the Wiz I’d love to get our hands on Murray. Spurs were really high on him, particularly his D, prior to the season.

Popovich always raves about John from their interactions at Team USA, he is a big fan.
That would be a great coach + PG pairing.

I've always felt that Wall's career will be wasted (to an extent) if he never gets to play with an intellectual coach. He has that CP3/Rondo type personality, he really thinks about the Xs and Os of basketball and needs a smart coach on his level who will intellectually engage him. All the "rah rah" type stuff doesn't really work with him anymore and he seems bored with Brooks coaching. It's like the smart student who's being placed in a lower level class so they get bored and start picking up bad habits from the other kids.

I never thought I'd come to this point, but my current wish for the Wizards is for Wall to be traded to a better situation while he still has prime years left, so that he can fulfill his potential as what SHOULD BE a Hall of Fame career . It's just tough to see him whiling away his career in DC in a situation that has been holding him back from day 1.

I don't know about the HOF career, but I agree that I'd love to see him play the rest of his prime years with a coach who would actually make him better.

I would not be surprised if there is a trade in place that will take place on 12/15. I.e. if John already knows about it....

[LyricalRico]

This appeared on ESPN this AM

Spurs get: John Wall

Wizards get: Pau Gasol, Dejounte Murray and Lonnie Walker IV

Marc J. Spears: Who could revive Wall as one of the elite NBA point guards? How about Gregg Popovich, who coached Wall on Team USA?

The Spurs are a player away from being scary again, so imagine a lineup with Wall and fellow All-Stars DeMar DeRozan and LaMarcus Aldridge. Behind the Warriors, the West still looks wide-open right now. Plus, a small-market San Antonio team would be locking in a star backcourt long term.

On top of moving on from Wall's contract, the Wizards would surround Bradley Beal with a point guard of the future in Murray (once he gets healthy) and another young talent in Walker, a 2018 first-round pick. Gasol would be included for financial reasons and to add some veteran leadership to Washington's locker room.

I would LEAP at this.

That actually makes pretty good sense for San Antonio. Aldridge's midrange game would complement Wall nicely. And if they can just infuse Wall with that San Antonio Spurs juju and get him to be more disciplined, Wall could be elite. It's not like they're going to have many opportunities to add star caliber talent to their core, given the fact that the contracts of Aldridge, DeRozan and Mills are on the books through 2021.

I could get behind this idea, but any reason why we wouldn't want Patty Mills instead of Gasol? He fills the hole at PG for us, plus otherwise the Spurs would have like 50% of their cap tied up in one position.

[trast66]

Thinking about Ted’s motivations, I think he values making the playoffs. Based on the Dekker deal I think he also values not being a luxury tax team 2 years in a row. So I’d be surprised to see a trade of Wall/Beal/Otto now, but some minor deal to move closer to being under tax could happen at any time. It’s probaby smart anyway to have more leverage closer to trade deadline. If and when Ted decides to trade any of those 3 this season (maybe if we get 10 games under .500) I believe he has full confidence in EG to make the deal. If we miss the playoffs or make them with a .500 or below record, he will move on from EG at seasons end. The new GM will decide coaching, trades, free agents in conjunction with Ted. Any trade Ted approves at anytime will prioritize players coming back, not draft picks. There will be no blowing it up, but a mandate to rebuild toward mediocrity on the fly.

[Wiz99]

Thinking about Ted’s motivations, I think he values making the playoffs. Based on the Dekker deal I think he also values not being a luxury tax team 2 years in a row. So I’d be surprised to see a trade of Wall/Beal/Otto now, but some minor deal to move closer to being under tax could happen at any time. It’s probaby smart anyway to have more leverage closer to trade deadline. If and when Ted decides to trade any of those 3 this season (maybe if we get 10 games under .500) I believe he has full confidence in EG to make the deal. If we miss the playoffs or make them with a .500 or below record, he will move on from EG at seasons end. The new GM will decide coaching, trades, free agents in conjunction with Ted. Any trade Ted approves at anytime will prioritize players coming back, not draft picks. There will be no blowing it up, but a mandate to rebuild toward mediocrity on the fly.

Pretty good summary of where Ted’s head likely is.

Everything I’ve been saying is from a place of emotion BECAUSE I think Ted likely has this kind of blasé attitude.

[Wiz99]

[jumps on conference room table, tries to tear my dress shirt off Hulk style]

“BLOW IT UP, TED!!!”

[pcbothwel]

Thinking about Ted’s motivations, I think he values making the playoffs. Based on the Dekker deal I think he also values not being a luxury tax team 2 years in a row. So I’d be surprised to see a trade of Wall/Beal/Otto now, but some minor deal to move closer to being under tax could happen at any time. It’s probaby smart anyway to have more leverage closer to trade deadline. If and when Ted decides to trade any of those 3 this season (maybe if we get 10 games under .500) I believe he has full confidence in EG to make the deal. If we miss the playoffs or make them with a .500 or below record, he will move on from EG at seasons end. The new GM will decide coaching, trades, free agents in conjunction with Ted. Any trade Ted approves at anytime will prioritize players coming back, not draft picks. There will be no blowing it up, but a mandate to rebuild toward mediocrity on the fly.

Pretty good summary of where Ted’s head likely is.

Everything I’ve been saying is from a place of emotion BECAUSE I think Ted likely has this kind of blasé attitude.

Its what I have been saying. Send out Kieff and Oubre (Rivers too) and get under the tax, and maybe a decent asset like a top 50 pick.

1 very interesting team is Milwaukee. If they trade Snell, Maker, and their 1st... They'd have:

Brogdon (Cap hold)
Divincenzo / Brown
Middleton (Cap Hold) / DJ Wilson
Giannis
Illyasova

And 35M in cap room.... Derrick Favors or Boogie would be a great fit for them.

[nate33]

1 very interesting team is Milwaukee. If they trade Snell, Maker, and their 1st... They'd have:

Brogdon (Cap hold)
Divincenzo / Brown
Middleton (Cap Hold) / DJ Wilson
Giannis
Illyasova

And 35M in cap room.... Derrick Favors or Boogie would be a great fit for them.

Milwaukee is in better shape than that. Factoring cap holds for Brodgon, Middleton and their 1st round pick, and assuming they retain the non-guaranteed contracts of Wood, Connaughton and Brown, they already have about $32M in cap room. That's $32M to join the following team:

PG Brogdon
SG Divincenzo/Brown
SF Middleton/Connaughton/Wilson
PF Illyasova, 1st round pick
C Giannis, Wood

I don't think Kawhi or Durant are likely, but the intriguing name is Kemba Walker. He'd be a real good fit. So would Klay Thompson (though that's unlikely). I wouldn't spend max type money on a center like Cousins because they're at their most scary when Giannis plays center. Actually, bringing Lopez back on a reasonable contract might make the most sense.

[pcbothwel]

Yup. I'll be interested in watching... but I still question how good they would be by simply subbing Kemba in for Bledsoe.
Bledsoe is better at Kemba at most everything this year outside of volume. Efficiency, rebounding, passing, defense, etc... Not sure what Kemba would do much better than what Bledsoe has done for them this year.

[FAH1223]

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[nate33]

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You don't say?

Of course teams are pursuing Beal. It's common sense. He's a 25-year-old All Star on a good contract and the Wizards as a team are in disarray. This isn't really going out on a limb.

But if I'm the Wizards, I'm not trading Beal for a grab bag of second-rate pieces and late picks. If Beal goes, it's for an unprotected pick likely in the top 5, or it's for a younger player with similar upside. I'm talking something like Beal for Ben Simmons. If we have to throw in a few spare parts to make that happen, then fine.

[payitforward]

Thinking about Ted’s motivations, I think he values making the playoffs. Based on the Dekker deal I think he also values not being a luxury tax team 2 years in a row. So I’d be surprised to see a trade of Wall/Beal/Otto now, but some minor deal to move closer to being under tax could happen at any time. It’s probaby smart anyway to have more leverage closer to trade deadline. If and when Ted decides to trade any of those 3 this season (maybe if we get 10 games under .500) I believe he has full confidence in EG to make the deal. If we miss the playoffs or make them with a .500 or below record, he will move on from EG at seasons end. The new GM will decide coaching, trades, free agents in conjunction with Ted. Any trade Ted approves at anytime will prioritize players coming back, not draft picks. There will be no blowing it up, but a mandate to rebuild toward mediocrity on the fly.

Pretty good summary of where Ted’s head likely is.

Everything I’ve been saying is from a place of emotion BECAUSE I think Ted likely has this kind of blasé attitude.

It's not "blasé." Ted is a businessman. Monumental is a business, The Wizards are one of Monumental's products. His attitude is to grow his business (Monumental). Nothing wrong with that attitude -- whether it turns out that he has the skills (or whatever) to grow it is another matter & something we'll find out.

But, you can't expect Ted to relate to his team as a fan. When Trast says that Ted "values making the playoffs" you have to understand that to mean that Ted thinks it's good for his business, good for Monumental, for the Wizards to be an average or better NBA product.

Trast, what would make you think Ted will "move on" from EG at season's end if we're unsuccessful (what "if" btw? -- we are 6 games under .500 more than 1/3 through the season)? It's a given that Ted has no real concept of what is needed to build a successful team. So, what reality basis will he have for seeing our situation as Ernie's failure? If he had any ability to understand that, Ernie would already be a distant memory.