Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

[80sballboy]

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what a haul, if that's aggressive, what's a lowball offer then?

Financially it makes zero sense for the Pels and zero basketball sense for the Wiz. I would assume they would add Mirotic and/or Randle.

[nate33]

I know this trade makes no sense and Basketball Rehab just seems to guess

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?s=21

LOL. Throw in E'twaun Moore and their 2021 unprotected pick and we'll talk.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Can we go back to deals involving moving Mahinmi's big useless behind so that we can at least have a shot at re-upping Bryant?

I don't think Bryant will cost much.

Standard, run-of-the-mill low-post bigs are a dime-a-dozen these days because teams can't even play them in crunch time. The league is still working through a lot of old contracts of legacy big men signed in a previous era. That gives the perception that they're worth big money, but they're not anymore. These days, the only big men worth big money are the ones that can stay on the court in crunch time. That means that they're exceptional rim protectors and very switchable defensively (while also being good roll men on offense) like Capela or Adams, or they're dominant offensively like Davis, Embiid, Gasol and Jokic.

Bryant is none of these. He's indistinguishable from about 10 free agent big men in this summer's free agency class, and easily worse than about 6 or 7 others.

Legit good free agent centers who can play in crunch time. Definitely worth more than MLE:
Demarcus Cousins
Kristaps Porzingis
Nicola Vucevic
Julius Randall
Brook Lopez

Dime-a-dozen free agent centers who have a role, but are not worth big money:
Willie Cauley-Stein
Boban Marjanovic
DeAndre Jordan
Enes Kanter
Robin Lopez
Dwight Howard
Tyson Chandler
Marcin Gortat
Dewayne Dedmon
Thomas Bryant
Kyle O'Quin
Ed Davis
Javale McGee
Kosta Koufos

I just don't see how Bryant gets more than 3 or 4 million a year in this market, and he might just settle for our $1.9M qualifying offer.

WCS is balling for the Kings. He's worth more than Brook Lopez.

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[pcbothwel]

I know this trade makes no sense and Basketball Rehab just seems to guess

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?s=21

LOL. Throw in E'twaun Moore and their 2021 unprotected pick and we'll talk.

Hill, Moore, Randle, 2019 1st, and 2021 1st
for
Beal, Howard and Green
*** Randle sent to 3rd team for filler and 1st.

- We cut salary and get 3 1st
- NOP only adds 5M in salary next year and probably gets AD to sign DPE.

Jrue / Payton / Frazier
Beal / Jrue
Miller / Johnson
Mirotic / Green
AD / Howard

- Not my favorite haul, but we'd have 6 1st over the next 3 drafts along with whatever we get from potential Ariza trade.

[badinage]

Randle isn't that good when he's not playing bully ball.

Wiz need Otto's 3 point shooting.

I don’t know what that means.

Otto isn’t that good when he’s not playing aggressively on O. Which is usually. And he doesn’t have great strength to man the 4.

You don't know what *what* means? You don't know what 3 pt. % means? Is that it? Off the top of your head (b/c I know you haven't looked) what do you think Randle's career 3pt. % is?

I was referring to the comment about “playing bully ball.”

I’m not sure what, exactly, that is on the court.

But I feel as if I’ve just had the verbal equivalent of it illustrated for me. So, good job!

[popper]

I don’t know what that means.

Otto isn’t that good when he’s not playing aggressively on O. Which is usually. And he doesn’t have great strength to man the 4.

You don't know what *what* means? You don't know what 3 pt. % means? Is that it? Off the top of your head (b/c I know you haven't looked) what do you think Randle's career 3pt. % is?

I was referring to the comment about “playing bully ball.”

I’m not sure what, exactly, that is on the court.

But I feel as if I’ve just had the verbal equivalent of it illustrated for me. So, good job!

PIF the intellectual bully. He’s older than I am. That’s all he has left.

[Induveca]

You don't know what *what* means? You don't know what 3 pt. % means? Is that it? Off the top of your head (b/c I know you haven't looked) what do you think Randle's career 3pt. % is?

I was referring to the comment about “playing bully ball.”

I’m not sure what, exactly, that is on the court.

But I feel as if I’ve just had the verbal equivalent of it illustrated for me. So, good job!

PIF the intellectual bully. He’s older than I am. That’s all he has left.

PIF is the old uncle with obvious, yet semi-helpful life advice at family gatherings. And always delivered with a confused scowl/head tilt/slightly leaning back.

Then eventually leaves with a “boy you better get your **** together....” and saunters off for another drink.

[truwizfan4evr]

I know this trade makes no sense and Basketball Rehab just seems to guess

Read on Twitter

?s=21

LOL. Throw in E'twaun Moore and their 2021 unprotected pick and we'll talk.

Hill, Moore, Randle, 2019 1st, and 2021 1st
for
Beal, Howard and Green
*** Randle sent to 3rd team for filler and 1st.

- We cut salary and get 3 1st
- NOP only adds 5M in salary next year and probably gets AD to sign DPE.

Jrue / Payton / Frazier
Beal / Jrue
Miller / Johnson
Mirotic / Green
AD / Howard

- Not my favorite haul, but we'd have 6 1st over the next 3 drafts along with whatever we get from potential Ariza trade.

give us 2 or 3 future first round picks and we can talk.

[FAH1223]

Any Mahinmi deals? Any? Sigh...

[Ruzious]

Can we go back to deals involving moving Mahinmi's big useless behind so that we can at least have a shot at re-upping Bryant?

I don't think Bryant will cost much.

Standard, run-of-the-mill low-post bigs are a dime-a-dozen these days because teams can't even play them in crunch time. The league is still working through a lot of old contracts of legacy big men signed in a previous era. That gives the perception that they're worth big money, but they're not anymore. These days, the only big men worth big money are the ones that can stay on the court in crunch time. That means that they're exceptional rim protectors and very switchable defensively (while also being good roll men on offense) like Capela or Adams, or they're dominant offensively like Davis, Embiid, Gasol and Jokic.

Bryant is none of these. He's indistinguishable from about 10 free agent big men in this summer's free agency class, and easily worse than about 6 or 7 others.

Legit good free agent centers who can play in crunch time. Definitely worth more than MLE:
Demarcus Cousins
Kristaps Porzingis
Nicola Vucevic
Julius Randall
Brook Lopez

Dime-a-dozen free agent centers who have a role, but are not worth big money:
Willie Cauley-Stein
Boban Marjanovic
DeAndre Jordan
Enes Kanter
Robin Lopez
Dwight Howard
Tyson Chandler
Marcin Gortat
Dewayne Dedmon
Thomas Bryant
Kyle O'Quin
Ed Davis
Javale McGee
Kosta Koufos

I just don't see how Bryant gets more than 3 or 4 million a year in this market, and he might just settle for our $1.9M qualifying offer.

WCS is balling for the Kings. He's worth more than Brook Lopez.

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Brook Lopez ("Look out BLo" as I call him) is an interesting case. He's fit in very well with the Bucks - even on the defensive side. Bucks take advantage of his wide body and excellent length - while limiting the negative of his limited mobility. And it definitely helps to have Giannis - combining top level mobility and length - on his side. Offensively, BLo has become a prolific 3 point shooter - helping to offset Giannis' one weakness (his Kryptonite, if you will). BLo's success in Milwaukee after failure elsewhere is a great example of the importance of fit - which some stat guys tend to dismiss out of hand.

[nate33]

WCS is balling for the Kings. He's worth more than Brook Lopez.

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Brook Lopez ("Look out BLo" as I call him) is an interesting case. He's fit in very well with the Bucks - even on the defensive side. Bucks take advantage of his wide body and excellent length - while limiting the negative of his limited mobility. And it definitely helps to have Giannis - combining top level mobility and length - on his side. Offensively, BLo has become a prolific 3 point shooter - helping to offset Giannis' one weakness (his Kryptonite, if you will). BLo's success in Milwaukee after failure elsewhere is a great example of the importance of fit - which some stat guys tend to dismiss out of hand.

Yes, you and CCJ make good points.

Lopez is an odd case where he can really help some teams, but other teams won't touch him because he doesn't rebound or protect the rim. Maybe he isn't a clear cut, greater-than-MLE guy. Maybe he is. We'll see. I put him in that group mostly because he is skilled. He has glaring weaknesses on D, but as an offensive player, he's really, really good. He can play in crunch time.

Likewise, WCS is probably the best of my "dime-a-dozen" group. I put him there because he doesn't really have any stand out offensive skills like the guys in my first group. But maybe he's on his way to meeting the Clint Capela/Steven Adams threshold of being really good and really switchable defensively, and enough of a roll threat on offense to force the other team to respect him. He could indeed get more than MLE money as well. His FT shooting is a crunch time problem, however.

[Ruzious]

Any Mahinmi deals? Any? Sigh...

He's having an awful year and coming off one of the worst games I've ever seen by anyone over 10 years old, so it might be difficult to trade him - and that's without considering he probably has one of the worst contract in pro sports. Just sayin.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Any Mahinmi deals? Any? Sigh...

He's having an awful year and coming off one of the worst games I've ever seen by anyone over 10 years old, so it might be difficult to trade him - and that's without considering he probably has one of the worst contract in pro sports. Just sayin.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y6wrumeu

I like Otto but I think the Wizards could use his contract to offload Mahinmi.

Porter and Mahinmi to the Bulls

Jabari Parker, Robin Lopez, Bobby Portis plus protected round 1 pick to the Wizards

Money move that also helps the win now. Ariza is going to cut into Porter's minutes. Brooks is already prone to play Morris and Green over Porter. The Wizards have rewarded Otto with an enormous salary but they won't get a good return on the Investment.

Trade him. Get out of the tax. Dump Yawn. Get Lopez for rebounding. Let Portis be part of the second unit with Parker. Get a pick.

Thoughts?

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[pcbothwel]

CCJ,
I have no interest in moving Otto with how low his stock is right now.
We can rebuild this team on the fly with two moves.
1) Use Ariza, Morris, and Green to get under tax and get a pick.
2) Trade one of Wall or Beal (In order of preference):
A) Trade Wall and get a decent return (See Blake Griffin Trade)
B) Trade Beal with at least one premium prospect/pick coming back
C) Trade Wall for middling package that includes negative assets (Probably would just write this off. Zero interest)

I dont mind not doing step 2 so long as
1) EG/Brooks are fired
2) We keep picks
3) We resign Sato and Bryant

[Ruzious]

CCJ,
I have no interest in moving Otto with how low his stock is right now.
We can rebuild this team on the fly with two moves.
1) Use Ariza, Morris, and Green to get under tax and get a pick.
2) Trade one of Wall or Beal (In order of preference):
A) Trade Wall and get a decent return (See Blake Griffin Trade)
B) Trade Beal with at least one premium prospect/pick coming back
C) Trade Wall for middling package that includes negative assets (Probably would just write this off. Zero interest)

I dont mind not doing step 2 so long as
1) EG/Brooks are fired
2) We keep picks
3) We resign Sato and Bryant

And what's going to happen: No more moves this season - other than altenating cutting and signing the 14th roster spot as required by the CBA. After June, they'll stretch the last year of Mahinmi's contract, sign a below MLE center (might be Howard again), have an assistant fill out the rest of the roster, and eat the best pasta and low cal Greek food in town all summer.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ,
I have no interest in moving Otto with how low his stock is right now.
We can rebuild this team on the fly with two moves.
1) Use Ariza, Morris, and Green to get under tax and get a pick.
2) Trade one of Wall or Beal (In order of preference):
A) Trade Wall and get a decent return (See Blake Griffin Trade)
B) Trade Beal with at least one premium prospect/pick coming back
C) Trade Wall for middling package that includes negative assets (Probably would just write this off. Zero interest)

I dont mind not doing step 2 so long as
1) EG/Brooks are fired
2) We keep picks
3) We resign Sato and Bryant

Otto Porter will get less minutes unless Brooks is fired. Lower stock is as guaranteed as Brooks' contract.

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[nate33]

Any Mahinmi deals? Any? Sigh...

He's having an awful year and coming off one of the worst games I've ever seen by anyone over 10 years old, so it might be difficult to trade him - and that's without considering he probably has one of the worst contract in pro sports. Just sayin.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y6wrumeu

I like Otto but I think the Wizards could use his contract to offload Mahinmi.

Porter and Mahinmi to the Bulls

Jabari Parker, Robin Lopez, Bobby Portis plus protected round 1 pick to the Wizards

Money move that also helps the win now. Ariza is going to cut into Porter's minutes. Brooks is already prone to play Morris and Green over Porter. The Wizards have rewarded Otto with an enormous salary but they won't get a good return on the Investment.

Trade him. Get out of the tax. Dump Yawn. Get Lopez for rebounding. Let Portis be part of the second unit with Parker. Get a pick.

Thoughts?

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That would have made more sense before trading Oubre because it frees up cap room to retain Oubre to replace Porter long term. But following the Ariza trade, I seriously doubt there is any intent whatsoever to trade Porter.

[Eli Babak]

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Heat, Pat Riley Have No Interest In Long Rebuild

Maybe they go after Wall now? Though I looked at their roster and they really have nothing to offer.

- Dragic (injured), Wade, Richardson, Winslow, Adebayo & Haslem aren't going anywhere
- McGruder & Jones are cheap useful players
- T. Johnson & Olynyk are players that Miami fans value pretty high (I guess?)
- Ellington is expiring (6.2M) and would be great shooter off the bench, but his salary isn't enough
-> Therefore injured & awful D. Waiters (11.5M/12.1M/12.6M) or badly overpaid role player J. Johnson (14.6M, 15.3M, 16M) would have to be included and I have no interest
- They've also traded 2021 1st and 2019/2020/2021/2023 2nds (+ top-55 protected 2024 2nd)!
- Whiteside (25.4M/27.1M) would make sense because they've had issues with him and they already have good bigs in Olynyk & Adebayo

So Wall+Morris for Whiteside and find a 3rd team to take Whiteside, Mahinmi or Howard... Or keep giving DNPs to Mahinmi, let Howard heal his ass until summer and play

Satoransky/Randle
Beal/Brown
Ariza/Dekker
Porter/Green/D. Robinson (signed to a NBA contract)/White
Whiteside/Bryant/Mahinmi/Howard

Have some fun or preferably trade Ariza & Green for few 2nds or something... **** Ernie for creating this mess.

[nate33]

Otto Porter will get less minutes unless Brooks is fired. Lower stock is as guaranteed as Brooks' contract.

I really don't understand why you and others keep saying this.

Porter gets the 3rd most minutes on the team. He got the third most minutes on the team last year. He'd get more minutes but he always gets nagging injuries, so they're obviously trying to limit his minutes a bit. But it's not because they WANT to play other guys over Porter. It's because Porter can't handle 34-36 minutes on a nightly basis.

Also, Oubre was fourth on the team in minutes per game and third in total minutes played. It's not like Ariza is replacing some low-minute youngster and will therefore have to steal extra minutes from other guys. Ariza is replacing the guy with the third highest minute total last year. His addition won't affect Porter's minutes at all.

[nate33]

Read on Twitter

Heat, Pat Riley Have No Interest In Long Rebuild

Maybe they go after Wall now? Though I looked at their roster and they really have nothing to offer.

- Dragic (injured), Wade, Richardson, Winslow, Adebayo & Haslem aren't going anywhere
- McGruder & Jones are cheap useful players
- T. Johnson & Olynyk are players that Miami fans value them pretty high (I guess?)
- Ellington is expiring (6.2M) and would be great shooter off the bench, but his salary isn't enough
-> Therefore injured & awful D. Waiters (11.5M/12.1M/12.6M) or badly overpaid role player J. Johnson (14.6M, 15.3M, 16M) would have to be included and I have no interest.
- They've also traded 2021 1st and 2019/2020/2021/2023 2nds (+ top-55 protected 2024 2nd)!
- Whiteside (25.4M/27.1M) would make sense because they've had issues with him and they already have good bigs in Olynyk & Adebayo

So Wall+Morris for Whiteside and find a 3rd team to take Whiteside, Mahinmi or Howard... Or keep giving DNPs to Mahinmi, let Howard heal his ass until summer and play

Satoransky/Randle
Beal/Brown
Ariza/Dekker
Porter/Green/D. Robinson (signed to a NBA contract)/White
Whiteside/Bryant/Mahinmi/Howard

Have some fun or preferably trade Ariza & Green for few 2nds or something... **** Ernie for creating this mess.

I figure, after the Ariza trade, there's no chance we trade Wall until the Trade Deadline at the earliest. If we crap the bed between now and then, then hopefully Wall, Ariza, Morris and Green go on the market for any kind of salary relief and picks/prospects we can get. By then, Dragic will be over his injury, so a Wall for Dragic trade might make sense.

Beyond that, I'm struggling to make any Miami trade work. The problem is, they have no assets, no picks, and presumably have no willingness to absorb salary given their luxtax situation.