Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

[youngWizzy]

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Heat, Pat Riley Have No Interest In Long Rebuild

Maybe they go after Wall now? Though I looked at their roster and they really have nothing to offer.

- Dragic (injured), Wade, Richardson, Winslow, Adebayo & Haslem aren't going anywhere
- McGruder & Jones are cheap useful players
- T. Johnson & Olynyk are players that Miami fans value pretty high (I guess?)
- Ellington is expiring (6.2M) and would be great shooter off the bench, but his salary isn't enough
-> Therefore injured & awful D. Waiters (11.5M/12.1M/12.6M) or badly overpaid role player J. Johnson (14.6M, 15.3M, 16M) would have to be included and I have no interest.
- They've also traded 2021 1st and 2019/2020/2021/2023 2nds (+ top-55 protected 2024 2nd)!
- Whiteside (25.4M/27.1M) would make sense because they've had issues with him and they already have good bigs in Olynyk & Adebayo

So Wall+Morris for Whiteside and find a 3rd team to take Whiteside, Mahinmi or Howard... Or keep giving DNPs to Mahinmi, let Howard heal his ass until summer and play

Satoransky/Randle
Beal/Brown
Ariza/Dekker
Porter/Green/D. Robinson (signed to a NBA contract)/White
Whiteside/Bryant/Mahinmi/Howard

Have some fun or preferably trade Ariza & Green for few 2nds or something... **** Ernie for creating this mess.

This is ridiculous. This team takes a massive step backwards trading Wall for Whiteside. Even if we do make the playoffs do you think we would even win one playoff game? What is the point? There are only a few trade scenarios that are somewhat close to reality where we can trade Wall. If the rumor that Ball, Ingram, and KCP for Wall is somewhat true then that is a trade worth considering. Trading Wall for Whiteside without getting an average or better than average point guard in return is ridiculous. Not to mention your trade has no picks involved or young assets.

[Eli Babak]

This is ridiculous. This team takes a massive step backwards trading Wall for Whiteside. Even if we do make the playoffs do you think we would even win one playoff game? What is the point? There are only a few trade scenarios that are somewhat close to reality where we can trade Wall. If the rumor that Ball, Ingram, and KCP for Wall is somewhat true then that is a trade worth considering. Trading Wall for Whiteside without getting an average or better than average point guard in return is ridiculous. Not to mention your trade has no picks involved or young assets.

I know it's a bad trade. I was just wondering what Miami could offer for Wall right now. If they offered Dragic+2nd at the deadline I'd do that in a heartbeat. You're not getting prospects like Ball & Ingram for Wall, his supermax (and attitude, he obviously needs a better HC than Brooks) is so awful. We should be happy for the cap relief as long as Ernie isn't the GM.

[Ruzious]

How about a simple trade: Wall for Dragic and a 1st round pick? It fits perfectly for Washington. Dragic has just 1 year left at 19.2 million - he has a player option, so maybe he opts out - I wouldn't if I were him, but either way, Wiz save a ton of money and no longer worry about lux tax. And they get a pick that could be a lotto pick. I'd even give Miami some protection in case it's a top 3 pick. Miami is an org that doesn't want to rebuild, so it makes sense for them, because they need to acquire a starting PG to make the playoffs - hoepfully beating out the Wiz. Wiz improve their chances of getting a top 2 pick (I think Barrett and Williamson are far ahead of everyone else in the draft).

Yes, I'd look to follow that up with a Beal trade - if we can get a high lotto pick and a young player with potential. In other words, don't rush it - wait till you get a good trade.

[nate33]

How about a simple trade: Wall for Dragic and a 1st round pick? It fits perfectly for Washington. Dragic has just 1 year left at 19.2 million - he has a player option, so maybe he opts out - I wouldn't if I were him, but either way, Wiz save a ton of money and no longer worry about lux tax. And they get a pick that could be a lotto pick. I'd even give Miami some protection in case it's a top 3 pick. Miami is an org that doesn't want to rebuild, so it makes sense for them, because they need to acquire a starting PG to make the playoffs - hoepfully beating out the Wiz. Wiz improve their chances of getting a top 2 pick (I think Barrett and Williamson are far ahead of everyone else in the draft).

Yes, I'd look to follow that up with a Beal trade - if we can get a high lotto pick and a young player with potential. In other words, don't rush it - wait till you get a good trade.

I had thought that Miami had already traded away that 1st round pick. I was wrong. They have their 2019 pick. The only 1st they've traded away is their 2021 pick.

Yes, I'd trade Wall for Dragic and their pick (top 3 protected) right now. The fact that Dragic is hurt is a feature, not a bug. It helps our tank.

Unfortunately, I don't see it happening after the "all in" Ariza trade. Although, I suppose we can move Ariza anytime we want to. (He can't be packaged with other players, however.)

[nate33]

So:

Wall for Dragic and Miami's 1st.
Ariza to LA for KCP and LA's 2020 2nd rounder.

Now we just need some place to dump Morris.

[Ruzious]

How about a simple trade: Wall for Dragic and a 1st round pick? It fits perfectly for Washington. Dragic has just 1 year left at 19.2 million - he has a player option, so maybe he opts out - I wouldn't if I were him, but either way, Wiz save a ton of money and no longer worry about lux tax. And they get a pick that could be a lotto pick. I'd even give Miami some protection in case it's a top 3 pick. Miami is an org that doesn't want to rebuild, so it makes sense for them, because they need to acquire a starting PG to make the playoffs - hoepfully beating out the Wiz. Wiz improve their chances of getting a top 2 pick (I think Barrett and Williamson are far ahead of everyone else in the draft).

Yes, I'd look to follow that up with a Beal trade - if we can get a high lotto pick and a young player with potential. In other words, don't rush it - wait till you get a good trade.

I had thought that Miami had already traded away that 1st round pick. I was wrong. They have their 2019 pick. The only 1st they've traded away is their 2021 pick.

Yes, I'd trade Wall for Dragic and their pick (top 3 protected) right now. The fact that Dragic is hurt is a feature, not a bug. It helps our tank.

Unfortunately, I don't see it happening after the "all in" Ariza trade. Although, I suppose we can move Ariza anytime we want to. (He can't be packaged with other players, however.)

Yeah, the timing of the Ariza trade would make the Wiz look worse than usual. They just made a trade supposedly to help them compete, and follow it up with rebuilding trade. They almost need to wait for a few more ugly losses to make it palitable.

[pcbothwel]

How about a simple trade: Wall for Dragic and a 1st round pick? It fits perfectly for Washington. Dragic has just 1 year left at 19.2 million - he has a player option, so maybe he opts out - I wouldn't if I were him, but either way, Wiz save a ton of money and no longer worry about lux tax. And they get a pick that could be a lotto pick. I'd even give Miami some protection in case it's a top 3 pick. Miami is an org that doesn't want to rebuild, so it makes sense for them, because they need to acquire a starting PG to make the playoffs - hoepfully beating out the Wiz. Wiz improve their chances of getting a top 2 pick (I think Barrett and Williamson are far ahead of everyone else in the draft).

Yes, I'd look to follow that up with a Beal trade - if we can get a high lotto pick and a young player with potential. In other words, don't rush it - wait till you get a good trade.

I had thought that Miami had already traded away that 1st round pick. I was wrong. They have their 2019 pick. The only 1st they've traded away is their 2021 pick.

Yes, I'd trade Wall for Dragic and their pick (top 3 protected) right now. The fact that Dragic is hurt is a feature, not a bug. It helps our tank.

Unfortunately, I don't see it happening after the "all in" Ariza trade. Although, I suppose we can move Ariza anytime we want to. (He can't be packaged with other players, however.)

This is the trade I've been keeping the back pocket for the last couple weeks. My only issue is that Dragic has seriously regressed and is paid almost 20M this and next year.
He has fallen off on both ends of the court and who knows how he comes back from Knee Surgery.
He is a 33 y/o PG that scores as efficiently as Wall while not being as good at ANYTHING else. Average vision/passing skills, bad defender.
I could be okay with it, but I would need to see another "Sell off" trade to get us below the tax and a small asset

[BigA]

This is the trade I've been keeping the back pocket for the last couple weeks. My only issue is that Dragic has seriously regressed and is paid almost 20M this and next year.
He has fallen off on both ends of the court and who knows how he comes back from Knee Surgery.
He is a 33 y/o PG that scores as efficiently as Wall while not being as good at ANYTHING else. Average vision/passing skills, bad defender.
I could be okay with it, but I would need to see another "Sell off" trade to get us below the tax and a small asset

I don't watch Miami. So Dragic is a worse defender than Wall at this point?

[pcbothwel]

So:

Wall for Dragic and Miami's 1st.
Ariza to LA for KCP and LA's 2020 2nd rounder.

Now we just need some place to dump Morris.

Add in KCP to Houston for Knight, 1st, Hartenstein/Clark

Assuming we can dump Morris to get under the tax...
We'd have 3 1st to rebuild/reboot with

[pcbothwel]

This is the trade I've been keeping the back pocket for the last couple weeks. My only issue is that Dragic has seriously regressed and is paid almost 20M this and next year.
He has fallen off on both ends of the court and who knows how he comes back from Knee Surgery.
He is a 33 y/o PG that scores as efficiently as Wall while not being as good at ANYTHING else. Average vision/passing skills, bad defender.
I could be okay with it, but I would need to see another "Sell off" trade to get us below the tax and a small asset

I don't watch Miami. So Dragic is a worse defender than Wall at this point?

Again, its hard to tell because he is having knee surgery. But he certainly appears a bit slower than he was 2-3 years ago. That said, he seems like a great buy low candidate that could easily be a viable player next to Beal.

[LyricalRico]

How about a simple trade: Wall for Dragic and a 1st round pick? It fits perfectly for Washington. Dragic has just 1 year left at 19.2 million - he has a player option, so maybe he opts out - I wouldn't if I were him, but either way, Wiz save a ton of money and no longer worry about lux tax. And they get a pick that could be a lotto pick. I'd even give Miami some protection in case it's a top 3 pick. Miami is an org that doesn't want to rebuild, so it makes sense for them, because they need to acquire a starting PG to make the playoffs - hoepfully beating out the Wiz. Wiz improve their chances of getting a top 2 pick (I think Barrett and Williamson are far ahead of everyone else in the draft).

Yes, I'd look to follow that up with a Beal trade - if we can get a high lotto pick and a young player with potential. In other words, don't rush it - wait till you get a good trade.

I think Miami will want more than top 3 protection, but I'd still do it. Wouldn't do the immediate Beal trade, though. I'd like see Beal without Wall for a while before trading him. I'd much rather do Nate's follow-up:

So:

Wall for Dragic and Miami's 1st.
Ariza to LA for KCP and LA's 2020 2nd rounder.

Now we just need some place to dump Morris.

[Eli Babak]

This is the trade I've been keeping the back pocket for the last couple weeks. My only issue is that Dragic has seriously regressed and is paid almost 20M this and next year.
He has fallen off on both ends of the court and who knows how he comes back from Knee Surgery.
He is a 33 y/o PG that scores as efficiently as Wall while not being as good at ANYTHING else. Average vision/passing skills, bad defender.
I could be okay with it, but I would need to see another "Sell off" trade to get us below the tax and a small asset

I don't watch Miami. So Dragic is a worse defender than Wall at this point?

Me neither, but I watched his stats and they're not pretty (check here). He should be a great tank commander anyway and getting rid of Wall's contract helps us a lot in the long run.

Man, just fire Grunfeld, let these trades

Wall for Dragic and Miami's 1st.
Ariza to LA for KCP and LA's 2020 2nd rounder.

dump Morris.

Add in KCP to Houston for Knight, 1st, Hartenstein/Clark

happen, tank hard and see what the new GM & coach can do.

[Ruzious]

If we make the trade with Miami, i wouldn't consider Dragic an important part of it - other than for his contract. The first round pick and the cost savings for next season and seasons after are the reason to make the trade. If we can follow the trade by trading Dragic (presumably in the offseason) for a decent asset, I'd be fine with that. Or use him as the tank commander as Eli said.

[nate33]

So:

Wall for Dragic and Miami's 1st.
Ariza to LA for KCP and LA's 2020 2nd rounder.

Now we just need some place to dump Morris.

Add in KCP to Houston for Knight, 1st, Hartenstein/Clark

Assuming we can dump Morris to get under the tax...
We'd have 3 1st to rebuild/reboot with

Can we afford Knight's contract (in addition to Mahinmi's) as well as the contracts of 3 1st rounders and still retain Sato and Bryant? We save $18M in the Wall for Dragic swap, but give it all back by absorbing Knight.

[pcbothwel]

So:

Wall for Dragic and Miami's 1st.
Ariza to LA for KCP and LA's 2020 2nd rounder.

Now we just need some place to dump Morris.

Add in KCP to Houston for Knight, 1st, Hartenstein/Clark

Assuming we can dump Morris to get under the tax...
We'd have 3 1st to rebuild/reboot with

Can we afford Knight's contract (in addition to Mahinmi's) as well as the contracts of 3 1st rounders and still retain Sato and Bryant? We save $18M in the Wall for Dragic swap, but give it all back by absorbing Knight.

Good question. Quick math would put us at 12/13 players right at the tax line (About 1M over). Assuming we get out of the tax this year, then being over next year wont be a big deal.

Also, We'd have Mahinmi, Knight, and Dragic all expiring and about 2-3M over the tax. We could simply trade 1 of the 3 at next years deadline for a slightly smaller expiring.

[nate33]

Add in KCP to Houston for Knight, 1st, Hartenstein/Clark

Assuming we can dump Morris to get under the tax...
We'd have 3 1st to rebuild/reboot with

Can we afford Knight's contract (in addition to Mahinmi's) as well as the contracts of 3 1st rounders and still retain Sato and Bryant? We save $18M in the Wall for Dragic swap, but give it all back by absorbing Knight.

Good question. Quick math would put us at 12/13 players right at the tax line (About 1M over). Assuming we get out of the tax this year, then being over next year wont be a big deal.

Also, We'd have Mahinmi, Knight, and Dragic all expiring and about 2-3M over the tax. We could simply trade 1 of the 3 at next years deadline for a slightly smaller expiring.

The value of that Houston pick depends a great deal on whether or not they get their act together. If I'm Ted, I wouldn't absorb $15M in 2019 salary (and possible luxtax charges) for, say, the #22 pick in the draft. For $15M, I'd want a late lotto pick.

[pcbothwel]

Nate, you might be right which is why I included Hartenstein.
It would probably be better to send KCP to another team for a lesser asset and less salary.
- Kings for 2 2nds and McLemore?

[payitforward]

I don't think Bryant will cost much.

Standard, run-of-the-mill low-post bigs are a dime-a-dozen these days because teams can't even play them in crunch time. The league is still working through a lot of old contracts of legacy big men signed in a previous era. That gives the perception that they're worth big money, but they're not anymore. These days, the only big men worth big money are the ones that can stay on the court in crunch time. That means that they're exceptional rim protectors and very switchable defensively (while also being good roll men on offense) like Capela or Adams, or they're dominant offensively like Davis, Embiid, Gasol and Jokic.

Bryant is none of these. He's indistinguishable from about 10 free agent big men in this summer's free agency class, and easily worse than about 6 or 7 others.

Legit good free agent centers who can play in crunch time. Definitely worth more than MLE:
Demarcus Cousins
Kristaps Porzingis
Nicola Vucevic
Julius Randall
Brook Lopez

Dime-a-dozen free agent centers who have a role, but are not worth big money:
Willie Cauley-Stein
Boban Marjanovic
DeAndre Jordan
Enes Kanter
Robin Lopez
Dwight Howard
Tyson Chandler
Marcin Gortat
Dewayne Dedmon
Thomas Bryant
Kyle O'Quin
Ed Davis
Javale McGee
Kosta Koufos

I just don't see how Bryant gets more than 3 or 4 million a year in this market, and he might just settle for our $1.9M qualifying offer.

While I agree that he won't get a big offer, I have the sense that you haven't got Thomas Bryant pegged right. I may be wrong -- maybe I'm over-reacting to the term "dime-a-dozen" -- you do have Bryant listed with some guys who are pretty good.

Or, maybe it's the list itself that seems strange. I follow your narrative, but... look at DeAndre Jordan. This year he is getting 17.75 rebounds per 40 minutes. Plus he posts a 67% TS%.

You may not like him in crunch time, but I tell you what... first you have to get to crunch time! He's going to be a help with that I'd say. I can't imagine putting him on any list with, for example, Willie Cauley-Stein.

Back to Bryant: though he hasn't shown it yet in the NBA, in the G League last year he took 6.4 threes per 40 minutes (in 1000+ minutes) & shot .364.

He's not slow, either physically or mentally. He's not floor-bound either. Above all, he's not playing like any kind of "dime a dozen" anything! His TS% is .654 -- he is above 86% from the line -- a good indication that he'll develop further as a shooter.

Still, you are right that $4m would be more than enough. If I were the Wizards I'd sign him for the next 3 years -- right now. Raises/team options years 2 & 3.

E.g. $2.6m, $3.6m, & $4.8m -- a total of $11m. & I do mean right now.

[payitforward]

I was referring to the comment about “playing bully ball.”

I’m not sure what, exactly, that is on the court.

But I feel as if I’ve just had the verbal equivalent of it illustrated for me. So, good job!

PIF the intellectual bully. He’s older than I am. That’s all he has left.

PIF is the old uncle with obvious, yet semi-helpful life advice at family gatherings. And always delivered with a confused scowl/head tilt/slightly leaning back.

Then eventually leaves with a “boy you better get your **** together....” and saunters off for another drink.

Hey... I'm going to go off & get myself another drink. By the time I get back you guys better have your **** together! Ok?

Hey badinage -- I owe you an apology. Especially since Randle is having such a great year!

Gimme a pass on this one, ok?

& btw, pay no attention to those two other geezers. If you look back over my posts, you will find that I have always been right about everything I've ever written -- with the sole exception of giving you a hard time for no reason, that is. Other than that... perfect!

[payitforward]

...
And what's going to happen: No more moves this season - other than altenating cutting and signing the 14th roster spot as required by the CBA. After June, they'll stretch the last year of Mahinmi's contract, sign a below MLE center (might be Howard again), have an assistant fill out the rest of the roster, and eat the best pasta and low cal Greek food in town all summer.

LOL...

(If it weren't so sad & so true...)