Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

Man, so far WeHam have been nothing shorter but disaster.

Players from their era ( no particular order)

Jonathan Simmons - allegedly great defender. After solid, but empty stats in first year, guy is dancing with fire , in real danger to be out of NBA soon.

Jonathan Isaac- guy is PF, i don't want to hear any more SF nonsense. There is not single thing he does well on perimeter. Not that he is great PF , just slightly less terrible than he is when he floats on perimeter.

Wes Iwundu -41,9% eFG, BPM negative on both ends

Mo Bamba - (-16,6 net rating ) one of worst active rotation players in nba. Too early to judge, but "test screenings" showcase more of Thon Maker , less of Rudy Gobert/Deandre/Emiid

Justin Jackson- this guy actually isn't even G league starter, witch is impressive. For all the wrong reasons. 5 ppg 37%FG, and he is knockdown shooter right? Well, 22% for 3.

Frazier - ok this is bigest facepalm so far. Not only that guy can't play, it's not his fault that he can't ,but he somehow showed zero desire to even celerate team Ws.

Jerian Grant- PG without ballhandling skills. That's some next level garbage. Ofc career low in all efficiency numbers, makes me wander how they masked his production in Chicago

Jarell Martin- everything said about Grant could be said about Martin. He is somehow even worst. Guy was servirable big for Memphis. What a nosedive to nba exit doors for this young man. PF/C who shoots 34% FG on 2,2 ppg.

Briscoe - pretty much told all of you here and on OPP to temper expetations. He didn't play in good league,he played on team that was last when competition got better in VTB. He still can't shoot.

Honorable mention- Birch looked ok last year when he played, naturally, buried this year with army of Cs.

That brings me to two way players - Jefferson and Capain. They are doing well in G league, can they be that much worst than guys above ? I highly doubt anybody can outscrub Iwundu and Frazier at this point. Time to give them a shot?

Magic boxed themselfs into a corner where they are 2 wins away from .500 and yet could easly nosedive into lottery. Current roster CAN'T win 35 games, there si not enough nba players ( hell there are like 4-5 of them now and Evan is having terrible year ). So, make moves to get nba level guard(s) and actual starting SF or simply trade Ross,Vučević, Evan or tank. but stop this half a***ing that will lead to 32 wins and mid first round pick without much value (it's not like they know how to draft but whatever ).

Man. Couldn’t have said it any better!

[EAS Law]

Man, so far WeHam have been nothing shorter but disaster.

Players from their era ( no particular order)

Jonathan Simmons - allegedly great defender. After solid, but empty stats in first year, guy is dancing with fire , in real danger to be out of NBA soon.

Jonathan Isaac- guy is PF, i don't want to hear any more SF nonsense. There is not single thing he does well on perimeter. Not that he is great PF , just slightly less terrible than he is when he floats on perimeter.

Wes Iwundu -41,9% eFG, BPM negative on both ends

Mo Bamba - (-16,6 net rating ) one of worst active rotation players in nba. Too early to judge, but "test screenings" showcase more of Thon Maker , less of Rudy Gobert/Deandre/Emiid

Justin Jackson- this guy actually isn't even G league starter, witch is impressive. For all the wrong reasons. 5 ppg 37%FG, and he is knockdown shooter right? Well, 22% for 3.

Frazier - ok this is bigest facepalm so far. Not only that guy can't play, it's not his fault that he can't ,but he somehow showed zero desire to even celerate team Ws.

Jerian Grant- PG without ballhandling skills. That's some next level garbage. Ofc career low in all efficiency numbers, makes me wander how they masked his production in Chicago

Jarell Martin- everything said about Grant could be said about Martin. He is somehow even worst. Guy was servirable big for Memphis. What a nosedive to nba exit doors for this young man. PF/C who shoots 34% FG on 2,2 ppg.

Briscoe - pretty much told all of you here and on OPP to temper expetations. He didn't play in good league,he played on team that was last when competition got better in VTB. He still can't shoot.

Honorable mention- Birch looked ok last year when he played, naturally, buried this year with army of Cs.

That brings me to two way players - Jefferson and Capain. They are doing well in G league, can they be that much worst than guys above ? I highly doubt anybody can outscrub Iwundu and Frazier at this point. Time to give them a shot?

Magic boxed themselfs into a corner where they are 2 wins away from .500 and yet could easly nosedive into lottery. Current roster CAN'T win 35 games, there si not enough nba players ( hell there are like 4-5 of them now and Evan is having terrible year ). So, make moves to get nba level guard(s) and actual starting SF or simply trade Ross,Vučević, Evan or tank. but stop this half a***ing that will lead to 32 wins and mid first round pick without much value (it's not like they know how to draft but whatever ).

I might have to agree. I’m beginning to get those same feelings that there is no actual explanation for why we all of a sudden can’t put it together.

We seem to do this every year now—start well and then absolute dumpster fire from December through the rest of the season.

I guess what’s happening is TRoss and Vuc are coming back to Earth and can no longer make up for the fact that a majority of our guys are lucky to score 10pts. In a game.

[VFX]

Man, so far WeHam have been nothing shorter but disaster.

Players from their era ( no particular order)

Jonathan Simmons - allegedly great defender. After solid, but empty stats in first year, guy is dancing with fire , in real danger to be out of NBA soon.

Jonathan Isaac- guy is PF, i don't want to hear any more SF nonsense. There is not single thing he does well on perimeter. Not that he is great PF , just slightly less terrible than he is when he floats on perimeter.

Wes Iwundu -41,9% eFG, BPM negative on both ends

Mo Bamba - (-16,6 net rating ) one of worst active rotation players in nba. Too early to judge, but "test screenings" showcase more of Thon Maker , less of Rudy Gobert/Deandre/Emiid

Justin Jackson- this guy actually isn't even G league starter, witch is impressive. For all the wrong reasons. 5 ppg 37%FG, and he is knockdown shooter right? Well, 22% for 3.

Frazier - ok this is bigest facepalm so far. Not only that guy can't play, it's not his fault that he can't ,but he somehow showed zero desire to even celerate team Ws.

Jerian Grant- PG without ballhandling skills. That's some next level garbage. Ofc career low in all efficiency numbers, makes me wander how they masked his production in Chicago

Jarell Martin- everything said about Grant could be said about Martin. He is somehow even worst. Guy was servirable big for Memphis. What a nosedive to nba exit doors for this young man. PF/C who shoots 34% FG on 2,2 ppg.

Briscoe - pretty much told all of you here and on OPP to temper expetations. He didn't play in good league,he played on team that was last when competition got better in VTB. He still can't shoot.

Honorable mention- Birch looked ok last year when he played, naturally, buried this year with army of Cs.

That brings me to two way players - Jefferson and Capain. They are doing well in G league, can they be that much worst than guys above ? I highly doubt anybody can outscrub Iwundu and Frazier at this point. Time to give them a shot?

Magic boxed themselfs into a corner where they are 2 wins away from .500 and yet could easly nosedive into lottery. Current roster CAN'T win 35 games, there si not enough nba players ( hell there are like 4-5 of them now and Evan is having terrible year ). So, make moves to get nba level guard(s) and actual starting SF or simply trade Ross,Vučević, Evan or tank. but stop this half a***ing that will lead to 32 wins and mid first round pick without much value (it's not like they know how to draft but whatever ).

I would honestly love to hear from them what they think the actual direction of this franchise should be. They legitimately seem clueless and always give these BS media answers that mean nothing.

They semi-tank by keeping Vogel (not their coach) around to then screw the tank as he tries to save his job putting draft position at risk. At the same time, not making any moves because “evaluation”, possibly losing any leverage they had on tradeable players.

Then they hire Clifford but don’t give him any help with the same exact roster Vogel had, give or take a few role players. What a completely contradictory and terrible move.

They then draft only for an obviously flawed metric and make zero moves during the draft to rectify the roster.

They continue not to move the same players and people are surprised at the same results (?)
Fournier, Ross, AG, Vuc all still starting since the Hennigan era. Yes, Ross started 24 games after he was acquired in the Ibaka deal.

Then we hear noise about pushing for the playoffs (wow) when it’s obvious the roster isn’t capable as they lose against mediocre to bad competition.

If the usual suspects are on this roster at the end of the season I won’t know what to say. If the fans need anything, it’s not watching the same players for a decade continue to deliver the same results with minimal changes. Blow this **** up already for the love of god.

[pepe1991]

It will take me some time ( not even sure i'll do it,not that i care that much ) but Gordon splits:

October - meh start, 43% FG - Isaac in SL
November- best month for him so far- Isaac out of SL
December - Isaac out of SL 19ppg, 11 rpg, 4,75 apg 44% FG
- Isaac in SL 10,4 ppg,6,2 rpg, 4,6 apg, 28% FG

In addition, "BIG" now logged 20 min, not some groundbreaking sample size ,but it's worth pointing out they have net rating of -27, ( 87 offense, 114 def).

[MoMM]

That brings me to two way players - Jefferson and Capain. They are doing well in G league, can they be that much worst than guys above ? I highly doubt anybody can outscrub Iwundu and Frazier at this point. Time to give them a shot?

Perhaps the goal is not to win a NBA championship by 2030, it's to win G-League?

[fendilim]

Man, so far WeHam have been nothing shorter but disaster.

Players from their era ( no particular order)

Jonathan Simmons - allegedly great defender. After solid, but empty stats in first year, guy is dancing with fire , in real danger to be out of NBA soon.

Jonathan Isaac- guy is PF, i don't want to hear any more SF nonsense. There is not single thing he does well on perimeter. Not that he is great PF , just slightly less terrible than he is when he floats on perimeter.

Wes Iwundu -41,9% eFG, BPM negative on both ends

Mo Bamba - (-16,6 net rating ) one of worst active rotation players in nba. Too early to judge, but "test screenings" showcase more of Thon Maker , less of Rudy Gobert/Deandre/Emiid

Justin Jackson- this guy actually isn't even G league starter, witch is impressive. For all the wrong reasons. 5 ppg 37%FG, and he is knockdown shooter right? Well, 22% for 3.

Frazier - ok this is bigest facepalm so far. Not only that guy can't play, it's not his fault that he can't ,but he somehow showed zero desire to even celerate team Ws.

Jerian Grant- PG without ballhandling skills. That's some next level garbage. Ofc career low in all efficiency numbers, makes me wander how they masked his production in Chicago

Jarell Martin- everything said about Grant could be said about Martin. He is somehow even worst. Guy was servirable big for Memphis. What a nosedive to nba exit doors for this young man. PF/C who shoots 34% FG on 2,2 ppg.

Briscoe - pretty much told all of you here and on OPP to temper expetations. He didn't play in good league,he played on team that was last when competition got better in VTB. He still can't shoot.

Honorable mention- Birch looked ok last year when he played, naturally, buried this year with army of Cs.

That brings me to two way players - Jefferson and Capain. They are doing well in G league, can they be that much worst than guys above ? I highly doubt anybody can outscrub Iwundu and Frazier at this point. Time to give them a shot?

Magic boxed themselfs into a corner where they are 2 wins away from .500 and yet could easly nosedive into lottery. Current roster CAN'T win 35 games, there si not enough nba players ( hell there are like 4-5 of them now and Evan is having terrible year ). So, make moves to get nba level guard(s) and actual starting SF or simply trade Ross,Vučević, Evan or tank. but stop this half a***ing that will lead to 32 wins and mid first round pick without much value (it's not like they know how to draft but whatever ).

I would honestly love to hear from them what they think the actual direction of this franchise should be. They legitimately seem clueless and always give these BS media answers that mean nothing.

They semi-tank by keeping Vogel (not their coach) around to then screw the tank as he tries to save his job putting draft position at risk. At the same time, not making any moves because “evaluation”, possibly losing any leverage they had on tradeable players.

Then they hire Clifford but don’t give him any help with the same exact roster Vogel had, give or take a few role players. What a completely contradictory and terrible move.

They then draft only for an obviously flawed metric and make zero moves during the draft to rectify the roster.

They continue not to move the same players and people are surprised at the same results (?)
Fournier, Ross, AG, Vuc all still starting since the Hennigan era. Yes, Ross started 24 games after he was acquired in the Ibaka deal.

Then we hear noise about pushing for the playoffs (wow) when it’s obvious the roster isn’t capable as they lose against mediocre to bad competition.

If the usual suspects are on this roster at the end of the season I won’t know what to say. If the fans need anything, it’s not watching the same players for a decade continue to deliver the same results with minimal changes. Blow this **** up already for the love of god.

unless you know them personally, it wont happen. No gm or management would go out and say the truth.

[PrimeThyme]

I think I’ve just accepted the fact that we are the Kings of the East. 6 years into this half assed rebuild and there is still no light at the end of the tunnel. I’m just numb to it at this point. I have no faith in this joke of a front office and no faith in ownership. You know you’ve hit rock bottom when the absolute best case scenario for us fans is hoping we resign our vets and get the 8th seed the next 4 years.

[Optimus_Steel]

It will take me some time ( not even sure i'll do it,not that i care that much ) but Gordon splits:

October - meh start, 43% FG - Isaac in SL
November- best month for him so far- Isaac out of SL
December - Isaac out of SL 19ppg, 11 rpg, 4,75 apg 44% FG
- Isaac in SL 10,4 ppg,6,2 rpg, 4,6 apg, 28% FG

In addition, "BIG" now logged 20 min, not some groundbreaking sample size ,but it's worth pointing out they have net rating of -27, ( 87 offense, 114 def).

I've been saying since the summer it was not going to work. It's obvious why. You put three big guys with limited offensive skill the floor will shrink. I'm sure these guys are going to be really good role players but they can't be your main guys. Plus we already knew that AG at SF is a disaster and Issac lacks perimeter skills so him at SF would be a similar issue. I was in favor of trading AG last year.

In terms of Bamba he has some skill but he is very raw and see no signs of being able to carry a team on offense as a 1, 2, even 3 option.

I was mad on draft night and still upset that WeHam did nothing for 2 years in a row to address scoring, shooting, ball handling, passing, either thru 1st or 2nd rounders or trades. You know the things good teams are good at....

More lenght, more lenght, more lenght....are they good at basketball? Do they have skills? IDK I guess we need more lenght...

[Optimus_Steel]

That brings me to two way players - Jefferson and Capain. They are doing well in G league, can they be that much worst than guys above ? I highly doubt anybody can outscrub Iwundu and Frazier at this point. Time to give them a shot?

Perhaps the goal is not to win a NBA championship by 2030, it's to win G-League?

First rule of goal setting: set reachable and attainable goals.....

[MoMM]

That brings me to two way players - Jefferson and Capain. They are doing well in G league, can they be that much worst than guys above ? I highly doubt anybody can outscrub Iwundu and Frazier at this point. Time to give them a shot?

Perhaps the goal is not to win a NBA championship by 2030, it's to win G-League?

First rule of goal setting: set reachable and attainable goals.....

Yes, baby steps, you can't dominate the world in less than 40 years (since '89).

[j-ragg]

I know T-Ross is valuable to the bench but... I think going back to last year's lineup would help all parties involved.

DJ
Ross
Fournier
Gordon
Vuc

Try to stagger more and not let Iwundu play. Not an easy decision but this offense looks so terrible. Also, let Isaac try and create on the second unit. Guy is terrified to deviate from the offense when everyone else does whatever they want.

Together that unit has an 18.3 net rating, far and away the best of the big minute lineups. At some point you just have to play the best players right?

[Skybox]

Speculation Thread...some of us take for granted that we can re-sign VUC if we choose to...why? we drafted Bamba. Vuc's going to want to get paid and, maybe, has quietly been nauseated by this franchise not putting good players and coaches around him for years. He's smart enough to recognize that he "should be" the 3rd or 4th best guy on a great team, not the workhorse putting up big numbers on dysfunctional teams...People casually suggest giving him a two year deal until Bamba is ready...why would he take that? Just something to discuss. IF we keep him, be prepared to PAY him. Same with Ross...both the right age and having career years to want to explore spreading their wings.

[j-ragg]

Speculation Thread...some of us take for granted that we can re-sign VUC if we choose to...why? we drafted Bamba. Vuc's going to want to get paid and, maybe, has quietly been nauseated by this franchise not putting good players and coaches around him for years. He's smart enough to recognize that he "should be" the 3rd or 4th best guy on a great team, not the workhorse putting up big numbers on dysfunctional teams...People casually suggest giving him a two year deal until Bamba is ready...why would he take that? Just something to discuss. IF we keep him, be prepared to PAY him. Same with Ross...both the right age and having career years to want to explore spreading their wings.

It's what the market dictates though. Who do you see giving him all that money?

[rcklsscognition]

We should have never gotten too high on this team while they were shooting well. It just isn't sustainable for guys that are not good shooters to become good ones consistently. We were in a major slump to start the year, so it appeared that the rebound was going to get us back to normal, problem is, this team's normal is below average, so the hot shooting only brought us back to a reality where we still are worse than league average at just about everything.

[VFX]

Man, so far WeHam have been nothing shorter but disaster.

Players from their era ( no particular order)

Jonathan Simmons - allegedly great defender. After solid, but empty stats in first year, guy is dancing with fire , in real danger to be out of NBA soon.

Jonathan Isaac- guy is PF, i don't want to hear any more SF nonsense. There is not single thing he does well on perimeter. Not that he is great PF , just slightly less terrible than he is when he floats on perimeter.

Wes Iwundu -41,9% eFG, BPM negative on both ends

Mo Bamba - (-16,6 net rating ) one of worst active rotation players in nba. Too early to judge, but "test screenings" showcase more of Thon Maker , less of Rudy Gobert/Deandre/Emiid

Justin Jackson- this guy actually isn't even G league starter, witch is impressive. For all the wrong reasons. 5 ppg 37%FG, and he is knockdown shooter right? Well, 22% for 3.

Frazier - ok this is bigest facepalm so far. Not only that guy can't play, it's not his fault that he can't ,but he somehow showed zero desire to even celerate team Ws.

Jerian Grant- PG without ballhandling skills. That's some next level garbage. Ofc career low in all efficiency numbers, makes me wander how they masked his production in Chicago

Jarell Martin- everything said about Grant could be said about Martin. He is somehow even worst. Guy was servirable big for Memphis. What a nosedive to nba exit doors for this young man. PF/C who shoots 34% FG on 2,2 ppg.

Briscoe - pretty much told all of you here and on OPP to temper expetations. He didn't play in good league,he played on team that was last when competition got better in VTB. He still can't shoot.

Honorable mention- Birch looked ok last year when he played, naturally, buried this year with army of Cs.

That brings me to two way players - Jefferson and Capain. They are doing well in G league, can they be that much worst than guys above ? I highly doubt anybody can outscrub Iwundu and Frazier at this point. Time to give them a shot?

Magic boxed themselfs into a corner where they are 2 wins away from .500 and yet could easly nosedive into lottery. Current roster CAN'T win 35 games, there si not enough nba players ( hell there are like 4-5 of them now and Evan is having terrible year ). So, make moves to get nba level guard(s) and actual starting SF or simply trade Ross,Vučević, Evan or tank. but stop this half a***ing that will lead to 32 wins and mid first round pick without much value (it's not like they know how to draft but whatever ).

I would honestly love to hear from them what they think the actual direction of this franchise should be. They legitimately seem clueless and always give these BS media answers that mean nothing.

unless you know them personally, it wont happen. No gm or management would go out and say the truth.

Obviously.

[Nemesis21]

Man, so far WeHam have been nothing shorter but disaster.

Players from their era ( no particular order)

Jonathan Simmons - allegedly great defender. After solid, but empty stats in first year, guy is dancing with fire , in real danger to be out of NBA soon.

Jonathan Isaac- guy is PF, i don't want to hear any more SF nonsense. There is not single thing he does well on perimeter. Not that he is great PF , just slightly less terrible than he is when he floats on perimeter.

Wes Iwundu -41,9% eFG, BPM negative on both ends

Mo Bamba - (-16,6 net rating ) one of worst active rotation players in nba. Too early to judge, but "test screenings" showcase more of Thon Maker , less of Rudy Gobert/Deandre/Emiid

Justin Jackson- this guy actually isn't even G league starter, witch is impressive. For all the wrong reasons. 5 ppg 37%FG, and he is knockdown shooter right? Well, 22% for 3.

Frazier - ok this is bigest facepalm so far. Not only that guy can't play, it's not his fault that he can't ,but he somehow showed zero desire to even celerate team Ws.

Jerian Grant- PG without ballhandling skills. That's some next level garbage. Ofc career low in all efficiency numbers, makes me wander how they masked his production in Chicago

Jarell Martin- everything said about Grant could be said about Martin. He is somehow even worst. Guy was servirable big for Memphis. What a nosedive to nba exit doors for this young man. PF/C who shoots 34% FG on 2,2 ppg.

Briscoe - pretty much told all of you here and on OPP to temper expetations. He didn't play in good league,he played on team that was last when competition got better in VTB. He still can't shoot.

Honorable mention- Birch looked ok last year when he played, naturally, buried this year with army of Cs.

That brings me to two way players - Jefferson and Capain. They are doing well in G league, can they be that much worst than guys above ? I highly doubt anybody can outscrub Iwundu and Frazier at this point. Time to give them a shot?

Magic boxed themselfs into a corner where they are 2 wins away from .500 and yet could easly nosedive into lottery. Current roster CAN'T win 35 games, there si not enough nba players ( hell there are like 4-5 of them now and Evan is having terrible year ). So, make moves to get nba level guard(s) and actual starting SF or simply trade Ross,Vučević, Evan or tank. but stop this half a***ing that will lead to 32 wins and mid first round pick without much value (it's not like they know how to draft but whatever ).

Waits for Knightro to chime in on this with his overly optimistic BS. But but, the Magic will win 32-38 games, grab the 7th seed, and still get a high enough pick for Ja Morant.

[Skybox]

Speculation Thread...some of us take for granted that we can re-sign VUC if we choose to...why? we drafted Bamba. Vuc's going to want to get paid and, maybe, has quietly been nauseated by this franchise not putting good players and coaches around him for years. He's smart enough to recognize that he "should be" the 3rd or 4th best guy on a great team, not the workhorse putting up big numbers on dysfunctional teams...People casually suggest giving him a two year deal until Bamba is ready...why would he take that? Just something to discuss. IF we keep him, be prepared to PAY him. Same with Ross...both the right age and having career years to want to explore spreading their wings.

It's what the market dictates though. Who do you see giving him all that money?

I don't see anyone throwing a lot of money at him...but, if all we offer is short term deal, I could see him getting comparable offers from much better teams like BOS. If I'm him and ORL doesn't overpay or offer more years (than others)- I'm out. I may be way off in this league-wide assessment but I really don't want to overpay him and watch this same show for another 4 years while Bamba rots on the bench. That take assumes Bamba CAN be better within a reasonable time frame...Vuc/Clifford is a system win IMO, but it's a good fit (if we could add more firepower). Vuc CAN be the "hub" as the 3rd best player in Cliff's system...right now, he needs to score because he's the best scoring option. I could see him adding even more assists per game if someone else presented a better chance to score than taking it himself. I'd seriously consider seeing what Bamba could bring back if we're not willing to sell high on Vuc now.

[Bergmaniac]

The better teams won't have capspace, except the Lakers and Clippers, and they will be trying to sign bigger names first.

[woosah]

Hammond traded for JJ so the bucks could make the 8th seed. He hasn't had huge success making great teams and has always been super safe so idk why people think he would come here and be amazing. The goal always seemed to be to just make the playoffs when he was there, and it may be what's going on here. A few of us said this when he was brought in, and that he wouldn't tank so i doubt they let Vuc go. Did Weltman pick Ross when he was in toronto or was that before his time? Anyway Ross may be in future plans too. We will throw money at Walker and miss, then report we tried and keep being slightly average. We will probably run it back with Simmons for another try and add a couple of years to see if he will improve.

[darthmerrick]

The front office weham is not very smart. They have one toe in the water with trying to win. You make the proclamation that you want to make the playoffs and try to win this year, and yet you don't go and get a PG.

So now they have evaluated and know these next couple games will make or break the season you have a big decision to make with Vuc and you have to know what your going to do. You got to make a push for the playoffs if your keeping him...so go trade for a PG now, before the weak minded losers ike Fournier on this team pack it in. If you are not keeping Vuc then you got to trade him now while his value his high and tank it in. We're not going to get a top 5 pick with inaction...so what's the direction here? Are weham sitting on their butts because their lazy or are they morons and like this team ?