2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

[Riko]

Knox is really good, tonight he made some mistakes but the talent is there.
With a little luck in the draft, the Knicks can turn their franchige around in just 6 months.

[DaGawd]

Knox is really good, tonight he made some mistakes but the talent is there.
With a little luck in the 7ldraft, the Knicks can turn their franchige around in just 6 months.

Watch on YouTube

Looks like he can be an elite scorer in the league...maybe as soon as next season. An off season of NBA level weight training a long with the valuable experience of playing significant minutes in a full NBA season under his belt will do wonders

[LukaV]

Haven't seen any Knicks games this year, but from the highlights Knox looks like he has the tools to be one of the best scorers in the league. Great pick by the Knicks!

[The-Power]

Haven't seen any Knicks games this year, but from the highlights Knox looks like he has the tools to be one of the best scorers in the league. Great pick by the Knicks!

The problem with Knox is that highlights will fool you. That has been the same in college. I like his chances to become a long-term starter if he buys into a well-defined role but there's absolutely zero indication that he has the tools and the chance to ‘be one of the best scorers in the league’. Zero.

[DaGawd]

Haven't seen any Knicks games this year, but from the highlights Knox looks like he has the tools to be one of the best scorers in the league. Great pick by the Knicks!

The problem with Knox is that highlights will fool you. That has been the same in college. I like his chances to become a long-term starter if he buys into a well-defined role but there's absolutely zero indication that he has the tools and the chance to ‘be one of the best scorers in the league’. Zero.

Care to elaborate on this? Hes actually been pretty consistent in his NBA career flashing his scoring ability. He definitely shows tools of an elite scorer. Routinely drops 10-15 with ease in a quarter. He often gets looked off by the "vets" in second halfs of games right now after hot starts. Thats the biggest work in progress with him on that end right now

[Texas Chuck]

I wish everyone here a happy 2019!
Specially to the Hawks fans, who I belive will try to forget 2018 as soon as possible...

Spoiler:

Just kidding guys! It's ok to start a new year with a joke!

Hawks fan here. We are happy with our decision. We knew what Luka was and what Trae is and can be.

Both teams won

This feels like the conversation with yourself you had with Marvin Williams a decade ago. Nah we cool with passing on CP3.

[VCfor3]

I feel like Doncic is leading ROTY with Ayton in 2nd. JJJ may be leading the pack for 3rd but if so it is pretty neck and neck with some of the other rookies. My question (and I hope it doesn't start too much of a fight) is do you think Doncic's time in professional sports helped him get a jump start on reaching his potential/topping out his skills? He still has plenty of room to develop, but has he already made the big jump that maybe some of the other rookies haven't yet and thus his room for improvement/potential is slightly less than some of the other prospects?

I think he has had a bit of a head start with adjusting to the NBA than some of the others but I don't know if he maybe was able to better develop his skills given his past and thus has less room to develop them further than a player who is just now realizing he has additional skills. I still think that he will likely be an All Star and has a really good shot at being the best player in the draft, but no one has come in with his pedigree before and I was just trying to see how it may have effected him.

Sorry for the ramble. Hope I was sorta able to convey what I was trying to ask.

[juanc]

I feel like Doncic is leading ROTY with Ayton in 2nd. JJJ may be leading the pack for 3rd but if so it is pretty neck and neck with some of the other rookies. My question (and I hope it doesn't start too much of a fight) is do you think Doncic's time in professional sports helped him get a jump start on reaching his potential/topping out his skills? He still has plenty of room to develop, but has he already made the big jump that maybe some of the other rookies haven't yet and thus his room for improvement/potential is slightly less than some of the other prospects?

I think he has had a bit of a head start with adjusting to the NBA than some of the others but I don't know if he maybe was able to better develop his skills given his past and thus has less room to develop them further than a player who is just now realizing he has additional skills. I still think that he will likely be an All Star and has a really good shot at being the best player in the draft, but no one has come in with his pedigree before and I was just trying to see how it may have effected him.

Sorry for the ramble. Hope I was sorta able to convey what I was trying to ask.

Yes he has a head start but not in terms of reaching his potential but in terms of expirience. He is talent-wise right there if not beyond Ayton/JJJr/...

People seem to forget, that Luka is the only Euro prospect to get those kind of minutes and that kind of role on a team like Real Madrid. He is the only teen in history of euro basketball to lead his team to a championship.

For example, Porzingis was a starter on a bellow average spansih league team. Rubio also was a starter(and nothing more) on a good euroleague team. Hezonja was Barcelona's 10th player. Bender wasn't even in rotation. And so on and so on.
They all had PRO expirience but no one had the talent to do what Doncic is doing. That's why I am not afraid for Doncic and his future. His talent is immense and he will definetly be a top10 if not top5 player in the league in his prime

[kg01]

I wish everyone here a happy 2019!
Specially to the Hawks fans, who I belive will try to forget 2018 as soon as possible...

Spoiler:

Just kidding guys! It's ok to start a new year with a joke!

Hawks fan here. We are happy with our decision. We knew what Luka was and what Trae is and can be.

Both teams won

This feels like the conversation with yourself you had with Marvin Williams a decade ago. Nah we cool with passing on CP3.

This is savagery. Just plain savagery. Do we really accept this level of savagery from mods (and closet Hawks fan)?

I'm questioning everything I know about life right now.

In fairness, I think KingKen was one among us not on the Marv wagon, btw.

On Young, it is what it is. What do you expect us to do, become Mavs fans? Lately, it's becoming more evident what we want him to play like and it's encouraging. They've said all along they don't want him to be a main scorer but it's just now showing up in their play.

Happy to see Doncic play well. He looks like he plays with a joy that's fun to watch. Only negative I have are the Doncic Stans who's list I just made by making that comment probably.

[mlp22]

Routinely drops 10-15 with ease in a quarter.

He only averages 12.2 points per game. How in the hell could he be routinely dropping 10-15 with ease in a quarter?

[DaGawd]

Routinely drops 10-15 with ease in a quarter.

He only averages 12.2 points per game. How in the hell could he be routinely dropping 10-15 with ease in a quarter?

His second halfs are often invisible when the vets start trying to get theirs. Plus he had a slow start to the season with the ankle injury so his scoring numbers are a bit skewed

[Texas Chuck]

This is savagery. Just plain savagery. Do we really accept this level of savagery from mods (and closet Hawks fan)?

Look I can appreciate at draft time anyone thinking the Hawks made a good deal. You never know for sure how someone is going to translate to the NBA and so if you doubted Luka then you got a talented playmaker with the potential to be a great shooter plus a very lightly protected 1st from a terrible team. Very easy to defend that.

But at this point with the evidence we have on Luka and that the Mavs while they probably won't make the playoffs look competitive and we know they won't tank because they owe the Hawks their pick. So that pick looks more like 8-12 or so which is a nice pick, but hardly worth giving up the best prospect in the draft.

I just think we have to change our opinions with more info. Like at the time I wasn't crazy about DSJ but I was definitely okay taking him over Donovan Mitchell. Oops. But if in May I was still okay with DSJ over Mitchell.......


And trust me no team makes more draft blunders than Dallas. Here is the complete list of good draft picks since the draft day deal that brought Dirk:

2003 draft Josh Howard at the end of the 1st. Great value pick
2012 draft Jae Crowder -- early 2nd round pick
2018 draft Luka

I hate to make a list of all the players we passed on and to be fair every team does that. But we also had our main basketball guy Donnie Nelson wanting to draft Giannis and we had a pick high enough to get him but we traded down to save less than $1M in cap space.

[kg01]

This is savagery. Just plain savagery. Do we really accept this level of savagery from mods (and closet Hawks fan)?

Look I can appreciate at draft time anyone thinking the Hawks made a good deal. You never know for sure how someone is going to translate to the NBA and so if you doubted Luka then you got a talented playmaker with the potential to be a great shooter plus a very lightly protected 1st from a terrible team. Very easy to defend that.

But at this point with the evidence we have on Luka and that the Mavs while they probably won't make the playoffs look competitive and we know they won't tank because they owe the Hawks their pick. So that pick looks more like 8-12 or so which is a nice pick, but hardly worth giving up the best prospect in the draft.

I just think we have to change our opinions with more info. Like at the time I wasn't crazy about DSJ but I was definitely okay taking him over Donovan Mitchell. Oops. But if in May I was still okay with DSJ over Mitchell.......

It's more acceptance than a reconfirmation of any pre-draft opinion on the trade, if that makes sense.

You didn't become a Jazz fan did you? You simply acknowledged Mitchell had a better rookie year and you turned your sights to trying to see what DSJr brought to the Mavs. Speaking of which, do you think he's long for Dallas considering the potential fit issues with Doncic?

[Texas Chuck]

Speaking of which, do you think he's long for Dallas considering the potential fit issues with Doncic?

IDK. One issue is I don't think he has much trade value atm. So that might keep him Dallas a bit longer.

Positives:

His shooting is better this year. Not great, but 37% on 3's would be good enough.
His defense is improved. Still not a good defender, but his effort and want-to is much improved

It feels like he gets that Luka is going to have the ball the most and that he's got to figure out how to play off that.

Negatives:

What is he great at?
Great athlete, but not a great finisher.
Doesn't draw fouls.
A/T ratio is barely above 1
Offense is a lot better with his backup in the game (okay so that's unfair as his backup is Barea)


It's just hard right now for me to project him as a good starter.

[Capn'O]

Legit, every time Knox has a monster first quarter Mudiay and Hardaway stop looking for him and he struggles to find good looks the rest of the game. It's infuriating.

The kid can score though. His December splits seem more applicable to what's yet to come. His 3 ball mechanics are fantastic, he's finishing near the basket much better, drawing fouls, and has a go to move with his floater. Other aspects of his game notwithstanding (like whether he should get 30+ mins due to defense) it seems pretty clear he can be a 20+ ppg scorer.

[King Ken]

I wish everyone here a happy 2019!
Specially to the Hawks fans, who I belive will try to forget 2018 as soon as possible...

Spoiler:

Just kidding guys! It's ok to start a new year with a joke!

Hawks fan here. We are happy with our decision. We knew what Luka was and what Trae is and can be.

Both teams won

This feels like the conversation with yourself you had with Marvin Williams a decade ago. Nah we cool with passing on CP3.

This is a terrible attempt at a joke. Many of us especially me hated the Marvin pick from the jump. Trae has been exceptional of late. Easily the most talented player we have drafted since Pistol Pete. A player who reminds me a lot of your star in Dallas. Likely the same upside and chance at winning anything important

[Texas Chuck]

This is a terrible attempt at a joke.

I agree it was low-hanging fruit and more Soupy Sales than Eddie Murphy Raw.

Doesn't change the reality that it's pretty hard to objectively like that deal for the Hawks right now.

[King Ken]

Speaking of which, do you think he's long for Dallas considering the potential fit issues with Doncic?

IDK. One issue is I don't think he has much trade value atm. So that might keep him Dallas a bit longer.

Positives:

His shooting is better this year. Not great, but 37% on 3's would be good enough.
His defense is improved. Still not a good defender, but his effort and want-to is much improved

It feels like he gets that Luka is going to have the ball the most and that he's got to figure out how to play off that.

Negatives:

What is he great at?
Great athlete, but not a great finisher.
Doesn't draw fouls.
A/T ratio is barely above 1
Offense is a lot better with his backup in the game (okay so that's unfair as his backup is Barea)


It's just hard right now for me to project him as a good starter.

I dont have an issue with DSJ. He can be good one day. But he doesn't fit what Dallas needs if they are building around Luka which they are.

[King Ken]

This is a terrible attempt at a joke.

I agree it was low-hanging fruit and more Soupy Sales than Eddie Murphy Raw.

Doesn't change the reality that it's pretty hard to objectively like that deal for the Hawks right now.

I love the deal. I think Trae will be a great PG. I think he is on that path. He has all of the things he needs for his prototype to be great.

As far as who is better. Its Luka. But that's right now, Luka is kind of hard to build around. Trae is kinda easy at least for the personnel we have already.

If Trae is playing defense like he is doing now, creating, slashing and scoring, we are literally a quality SF and C from contending in the East with our style of play. We have a lot of assets. Cap space. We have our big 3. Kevin, Trae, and John.

We are in as good of a spot as i can remember. If ever. Trae has superstar talent. Collins is a perfect fit with Trae. Kevin is a perfect fit with both. Kevin is like an athletic Mike Miller. Not as skilled out of UF.

[NYKHardKnock]

Routinely drops 10-15 with ease in a quarter.

He only averages 12.2 points per game. How in the hell could he be routinely dropping 10-15 with ease in a quarter?

Well first things first, he struggled mightily his first month plus coming into the NBA, granted he’s 19. But he looked bad. In December he averaged 17/5 a game, not on good
efficiency at all but you can see the skill he has.

You’ll see Kevin scoring 8-13 points in the first quarter. Then after that he’s lucky to get the chance to score 20. Guys like Mudiay/THJr/Kanter won’t even look his way because they’re selfish and obviously only interested in their stats. Kanter already exposed himself and the coaching staff/FO has already noticed. If he had the looks they had, he’d be averaging 20 + a game but on bad efficiency. But he’s super skilled, as a 19 year old, once he develops a well rounded offensive game, and demands the ball his efficiency will improve a lot and his numbers will be scary good. I can see KK being a 25 ppg scorer in his prime.